Introduction and Autocar beginnings

[john2dameron]

Here is a link   http://forums.justoldtrucks.com/Forums/PeterJs-Place   for justoldtrucks forums.  Those guys are amazing.  It seems that any question anyone asks about a truck someone comes up with the answer.  You will need to sign before you can post any thing but there is no charge.  It's just a bunch of guys that love talking about trucks and answering everyone's questions. 

[Guest ottothecar]

9 hours ago, john2dameron said:

Here is a link   http://forums.justoldtrucks.com/Forums/PeterJs-Place   for justoldtrucks forums.  Those guys are amazing.  It seems that any question anyone asks about a truck someone comes up with the answer.  You will need to sign before you can post any thing but there is no charge.  It's just a bunch of guys that love talking about trucks and answering everyone's questions. 

 

Thanks a lot, I'll join that site and see what I can come up with.

 

11 hours ago, Spinneyhill said:

Engine oil. Change to a 5 or 10W-30 or 40. After some running, change again  (when it gets a bit dirty). The engine will probably be pretty dirty inside. You probably should remove and clean out the sump too; the old oils were prone to turning to sludge.  The 5 or 10W refers to the oil's behaviour during warmup and the 30 or 40 part describes its behaviour when warm.

 

I would guess it was designed to run on about S.A.E. 30 oil.

 

The value of tetra-ethyl lead was discovered during WWI and it was widely introduced during the '20s. Its value in protecting valve seats was realised later. Gasoline (benzine it was called back then in some places, including this country) was in the range of 40 to 60 octane in the '20s. I agree with Tom. Use lowest octane non-ethanol for the time being. (Ethanol gasoline was first used in the US in 1923.) Later, when you have replaced anything rubber in the fuel system, you might use ethanol-gasoline, but it sounds like it doesn't keep much longer than 6 months so don't store much in the tank.

 

Antifreeze: use ethylene glycol with anti-corrosion additives. Not the long-life stuff. Change two to three yearly because it breaks down with time and heating cycles and forms acids.

 

Thanks for the great information on the fluids.  Do you have any suggestions brand-wise for something of this age?  For example Rotella comes with the extra zddp that you don't find in a lot of motor oils nowadays.  Hopefully the last oil change wasn't TOO long ago (i.e. 35 years vs. 65 years) but I'll be sure to post some pictures of what drains out.

 

Isn't most coolant (with the exception of HD extended-life diesel coolant) ethylene-glycol based?  So essentially we can use any standard "green" coolant so long as we add an appropriate amount of any standard anti-corrosion/anti-rust solution?

[Guest ottothecar]

We also freed up the front wheel bearing yesterday.  We sprayed a little PB around the inside of the bearing but I really think the addition of fresh new oil to the hub is what did it.  Kept pour oil in, trying to shift it a few feet with the skid steer, adding more oil, trying again, etc.  Once it start spinning though it was a creaking, dusty, gritty mess.  

[R Walling]

  I had a 1924 Cab Over AutoCar with a windshield that I was restoring. It was driven into Baskins Truck Sales In Chicopee Ma. in about 1950. One of the men working their would hand crank it over every week to make sure the engine would not freeze up.

 

 I acquired it in 1977 and started to restore it. I towed it around my parking lot to get the oil pressure up and I discovered that when you go into a corner you have to fight the wheel as there is no caster, camber or kingpin inclination. My big surprize was when I let go of the wheel it did not straighten out by itself!. You had to crank it just as hard to get it going stright again!

 

 I had manf. all new steel panels and had all the wood milled to the correct sizes before I finally sold it.

 

 The last time that I heard about it, it had been restored and was in California.

[Restorer32]

Caster and camber are not of much importance with a vehicle with a top speed of 20mph. Yes they steer hard. We took ours around a race track at a local fair grounds and at warp speed it may have hit 20 mph, certainly no more. Any faster and those solid tires would likely bounce you off the road. Pfaltz graff Pottery had a small fleet of these trucks. They would haul a load of pottery from York, PA to the docks in Baltimore then come back with a load of clay. Took a long day to make the trip down and back, about 50 miles each way. No heat, only a rudimentary canvas enclosure for when the weather was really bad. Our wheels had provisions to add chains. Cannot imagine driving one of these beasts on an icy road. 2 wheel non hydraulic brakes only,  even as late as 1928.

 

[Guest ottothecar]

15 minutes ago, Restorer32 said:

Caster and camber are not of much importance with a vehicle with a top speed of 20mph. Yes they steer hard. We took ours around a race track at a local fair grounds and at warp speed it may have hit 20 mph, certainly no more. Any faster and those solid tires would likely bounce you off the road. Pfaltz graff Pottery had a small fleet of these trucks. They would haul a load of pottery from York, PA to the docks in Baltimore then come back with a load of clay. Took a long day to make the trip down and back, about 50 miles each way. No heat, only a rudimentary canvas enclosure for when the weather was really bad. Our wheels had provisions to add chains. Cannot imagine driving one of these beasts on an icy road. 2 wheel non hydraulic brakes only,  even as late as 1928.

 

 

Yep, ours has the standard non-hydraulic brakes as well.  Coincidentally it also came with rear chains--one wheel's chains still had the original clip.  Other side was nut/bolted together.  We cut through the clip and nut/bolt and removed the chains.  Plan on keeping them.

[ply33]

2 hours ago, Restorer32 said:

Caster and camber are not of much importance with a vehicle with a top speed of 20mph. Yes they steer hard. We took ours around a race track at a local fair grounds and at warp speed it may have hit 20 mph, certainly no more. Any faster and those solid tires would likely bounce you off the road. Pfaltz graff Pottery had a small fleet of these trucks. They would haul a load of pottery from York, PA to the docks in Baltimore then come back with a load of clay. Took a long day to make the trip down and back, about 50 miles each way. No heat, only a rudimentary canvas enclosure for when the weather was really bad. Our wheels had provisions to add chains. Cannot imagine driving one of these beasts on an icy road. 2 wheel non hydraulic brakes only,  even as late as 1928.

 

 

Surprising to me, California still has maximum speed regulations on the books for vehicles with solid tires. Maximum permissible speed depends on gross vehicle weight and ranges from 25 MPH for less than 16,000 lbs to 12MPH for 22,000 lbs or more. http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=VEH&sectionNum=22409.

 

I wonder if other states still have regulations specific to this old type of truck on their books. . .

[Ivan Saxton]

The style of the engine casting pattern work makes me guess it may be Buda.  I had a WW1 FWD truck here, that survived working an auger and crane setup which Melbourne and Metropolitan Tramways Board used to erect poles and overhead power cables when then converted their system from underground steel cables for the old cable trams to an electric fleet.  It was just the bare truck when my friend Stuart Middlehurst bought it.  He mounted a big 3 phase generator on the back, and whenever the power supply to his commercial laundry business failed, they would give the Wisconsin engine a pull on the "Armstrong starter", and dive it sedately round to get the laundry working again.   The War Memorial Museum in Canberra had a restored 5 inch gun on display in front of a huge photo of one coupled to an FWD in France crewed by Aussie "Diggers" .  They were very keen to match it with a truck as in the photo.  A fellow brought an identity from the museum here without introducing him.  I had serviced it and set had throttle and retarded the spark, and asked did they want to hear it run.   "No, No said Shifty; but I had wrapped my fingers round the cold exhaust manifold, opened the fuel tap, and it started second pull on the crank.   He apparently had a contract with the museum to buy the FWD from me, get it running, and freight it to Canberra.  If he shook hand with you, you instinctively counted your fingers . I drove it a few yards, which was enough.  It was nothing like a Mercer.   The big  WW2 trucks were leisurely too.  Saxton Timber & Trading bought a near new tandem drive Diamond T with a Rodgers trailer from Army Disposals for 800 pounds.  The big 6 cylinder Hercules diesel engine, as also used by the larger Oliver Cletrac bulldozers would pull it uphill or down on the highway at 28 miles per hour.  The State Electricity Commission had several identical Diamond T trucks which they ran up into the 1960s;  but they were all re-powered with modern Rolls Royce diesels and were much faster.  With the original Hercules ours was always a slow moving roadblock.

[Restorer32]

I think it is a  Buda as I remember.

 

I

[Guest ottothecar]

25 minutes ago, Restorer32 said:

I think it is a  Buda as I remember.

 

I

 

Here are a couple additional pictures of the engine.  Based on some quick Googling I can see the similarities in the design of the exhaust manifold, but the plug/cylinder head layout looks a little different from the Budas that I came across on Google.  Our engine looks to have even spacing between the cylinders and plugs, while some of the Budas appear to have a larger gap between cylinders 2 and 3.  Then again, I'm not the expert by any stretch here so most guesses are likely better than mine.  

 

 

 

Also my quick research is saying that Buda never manufactured engines for the Autocar company.  Is that incorrect?  This is supposedly a Buda 4 cylinder from the late '20s and was the closest thing I could find, but again has the slight differences in head layout.

 

[Restorer32]

I will try to dig out my restoration folder from the one we did. It's been almost 25 years so might take a while to locate.

[Bud Tierney]

(1) terraturftires.com is another source for solid tire work, well regarded on another site...

(2) Several have commented that Amish woodworkers do beautiful wood wheel replacement wood spoke work, but I have no names..

(3) my earliest engine parts catalog (1932) lists the Autocar 2 cyl and a 1922-31 4cyl with roller mains; none show under Buda, but that's not definitive as these catalogs are never complete.

You could try Buda in Shreveport; the website seems to be for sale but Google still shows the firm address and phone 718-222-3348...if they've completely given up the ghost (Jim Sr passed on in 2012, Jim Jr was trying to keep the firm going) you could try John Paulsen (John Paulsen Marine) in Olympia 360-534-9879 evenings after 9PM Pacific time.. OH-OH--better Google him, I also have 9679. (Geez, that note's from 2010; how time flies!). I don't think he handles anything that old but seems to have extensive Buda knowledge.

[Rusty_OToole]

Those tires don't look that worn to me. I wouldn't replace them.

[edinmass]

On another site early truck guys are using fork lift tire companies to make new wheels. They seem to get excellent service from them over the road with no loads in the trucks. Maybe a area you should investigate. Ed

[JamesBulldogMiller55Buick]

That engine sounds great !!

Good luck and keep us posted on your truck

 

[Guest ottothecar]

17 hours ago, Bud Tierney said:

(1) terraturftires.com is another source for solid tire work, well regarded on another site...

(2) Several have commented that Amish woodworkers do beautiful wood wheel replacement wood spoke work, but I have no names..

(3) my earliest engine parts catalog (1932) lists the Autocar 2 cyl and a 1922-31 4cyl with roller mains; none show under Buda, but that's not definitive as these catalogs are never complete.

You could try Buda in Shreveport; the website seems to be for sale but Google still shows the firm address and phone 718-222-3348...if they've completely given up the ghost (Jim Sr passed on in 2012, Jim Jr was trying to keep the firm going) you could try John Paulsen (John Paulsen Marine) in Olympia 360-534-9879 evenings after 9PM Pacific time.. OH-OH--better Google him, I also have 9679. (Geez, that note's from 2010; how time flies!). I don't think he handles anything that old but seems to have extensive Buda knowledge.

 

For all I know this could very well be a Buda engine--as mentioned earlier in the thread truck owners love replacing motors, so who knows.  I will try and give the Budas guys in LA a call though, maybe they will have some distinctive points to look for.  If I reach them I'll pass along the engine # and see what they say.

 

13 hours ago, Rusty_OToole said:

Those tires don't look that worn to me. I wouldn't replace them.

 

Tire-wise, what should we look for to determine whether or not these are still good?  I'd assume that dry rot of solid tires isn't as much of a determining factor with solid rubber as it is with modern tires.  I'll see if we can find a manufacturing date as well.  At the end of the day we're probably months (if not more than a year) away from having to worry about the tires anyways.  For now all it has to do is roll from one place to another.

 

9 hours ago, JamesBulldogMiller55Buick said:

That engine sounds great !!

Good luck and keep us posted on your truck

 

 

Thanks!  We were pretty hyped about it as well.  Looking forward to moving ahead with this.

[Guest ottothecar]

And just listened to a voicemail from Dave at Olson's Gaskets--sounds like they actually have the head gasket and a couple other misc. gaskets in stock.  Amazing.

[Restorer32]

We phoned Olson's years ago looking for a head gasket for a 1918 Golden, Belknap and Schwartz engine (talk about obscure). They had a NOS one in stock. Great folks.

[Guest ottothecar]

5 hours ago, Restorer32 said:

We phoned Olson's years ago looking for a head gasket for a 1918 Golden, Belknap and Schwartz engine (talk about obscure). They had a NOS one in stock. Great folks.

 

I caught up with Tim Hoover of Hoover Stone Quarry in PA about his Autocars and he said he had issues a couple times with head gaskets (or the head itself in once instance) cracking around cylinders 2 and 3.  He ended up ordering a new head gasket for the engine from Olson's.  

[Spinneyhill]

Antifreeze: colour (e.g. green) is not necessarily a good indicator of whether it is ethylene glycol. Read the label! There are posts on these fora about which ones to avoid.

 

Tyres: I would have thought your solid rubbers will be hard as rocks by now. There is unlikely to be any dates on them coz that is a recent requirement. If the rubber is stuck to the rims, use them till they start to separate or break up, then think about replacing them. I was told years ago that shoe polish was good coz it contained (wood) turpentine, which is a rubber lubricant. They will likely have quite a bit of natural rubber in them, so protect them from UV light as much as you can. There have been discussions about preserving "rubber" on these fora too, with all sorts of (wacky) suggestions. The only one I can remember that looked right is Rubber Rejuvenator, which is aimed at printing machine rollers.

[Bud Tierney]

(Sigh)  GB&S isn't (aren't?) obscure, they're practically household names compared to

Continental (of Chicago, no connection to the better known Cont'l of Muskegon etc)...the two Cont'ls ran ads next to each other, Cont'l Muskegon ran ads saying not to be confused by that other Cont'l......

Ergon (out of Hazard)...

Milwaukie (I believe there were two Milwaukies)...

Schlosser....and numerous (innumerable?) others who've faded into history (all sold, or at least advertised, as 4cyl vertical auto inlines, and possibly some 6s, but I'd have to pore thru old notes)......

When you riffle thru the old trade journals (Googlebooks) the number of old engine builder's astonishing...I've never had the chutzpah to email Olsons for a head gasket for a Schlosser...(they'd probably ask "...which one?..")...

 

[Guest ottothecar]

17 hours ago, Spinneyhill said:

Antifreeze: colour (e.g. green) is not necessarily a good indicator of whether it is ethylene glycol. Read the label! There are posts on these fora about which ones to avoid.

 

Tyres: I would have thought your solid rubbers will be hard as rocks by now. There is unlikely to be any dates on them coz that is a recent requirement. If the rubber is stuck to the rims, use them till they start to separate or break up, then think about replacing them. I was told years ago that shoe polish was good coz it contained (wood) turpentine, which is a rubber lubricant. They will likely have quite a bit of natural rubber in them, so protect them from UV light as much as you can. There have been discussions about preserving "rubber" on these fora too, with all sorts of (wacky) suggestions. The only one I can remember that looked right is Rubber Rejuvenator, which is aimed at printing machine rollers.

 

I'll keep that information about the tires in mind.  I'm starting to make some plans for the weekend...sounds like our two primary goals will be dropping the oil pan and draining/cleaning out whatever we we find as well as freeing up the rear driver's side brake if time permits.  Going to have to be careful when it comes to dropping the pan to make sure we don't damage anything, especially the dipstick/cork float setup which apparently has some glass components.

 

Would there have been a gasket for the oil pan?  I'm thinking no...correct?  I would think I can just clean and lay down some RTV to create a plenty sufficient seal. Torque-wise, Hoover recommended using whatever is the standard recommended ft-lbs/NM for the size of the hardware and using the lower end of the spectrum. Seems wise to me. 

 

I'll be sure to take some pictures of what we find in that sump.

[Restorer32]

Found my info and restoration notes on the Autocar we restored. Of interest is a comprehensive Specifications and Dimensions sheet. The Model H came in 3 sizes. 114", 138", and 162" wheelbase. Ours is the 138". I suggest you measure your wheelbase. Turning radius is 45 feet, lol. Engine of all 3 models is 4 1/4" bore x 5 1/2" stroke. 28.9 hp. Transmission is 4 speed forward. Gear ratio is 7.72 to 1, optional up to 10.92 to one. Total max weight of the 3 ton chassis, body and load is 17000 lbs.

 

 

[Restorer32]

Found a listing of all Autocar serial numbers from 1926 and newer. From the numbering sequence it appears that your truck is pre-1926. Also found a large format 16 page advertising brochure with dozens of pictures and testimonials as well as a listing of literally thousands of Autocar owners with their business addresses. The Hygea Nursing Bottle Co of Buffalo, NY had an Autocar as did the Fresno Bone Fertilizer Co in Fresno, CA. Wanamaker's Dept Store in Philadelphia ran a fleet of 120 Autocar Delivery cars. Adams Express had a fleet of 270 Autocars. Coca Cola was also a large purchaser. This brochure appears to be pre-1928 judging from the shape of the fenders.

[Guest ottothecar]

2 hours ago, Restorer32 said:

Found my info and restoration notes on the Autocar we restored. Of interest is a comprehensive Specifications and Dimensions sheet. The Model H came in 3 sizes. 114", 138", and 162" wheelbase. Ours is the 138". I suggest you measure your wheelbase. Turning radius is 45 feet, lol. Engine of all 3 models is 4 1/4" bore x 5 1/2" stroke. 28.9 hp. Transmission is 4 speed forward. Gear ratio is 7.72 to 1, optional up to 10.92 to one. Total max weight of the 3 ton chassis, body and load is 17000 lbs.

 

 

 

That helps clarify some things.  I was under the impression that all model H units were 114" but I will be sure to re-measure this coming weekend.  The bore and stroke information is definitely of some use.

[Spinneyhill]

I would think it very unlikely it would not have a sump gasket. RTV was not invented then and is a good way to wreck things when one puts too much on. The little beads of RTV get into everything. It really doesn't belong on an old vehicle. Prepare for a cork gasket - buy a sheet of material so you can make a new one. And buy some non-setting gasket maker-cement such as Permatex #2, Loctite 518?? , Marston Hylomar to put on it.

[Guest ottothecar]

2 minutes ago, Spinneyhill said:

I would think it very unlikely it would not have a sump gasket. RTV was not invented then and is a good way to wreck things when one puts too much on. The little beads of RTV get into everything. It really doesn't belong on an old vehicle. Prepare for a cork gasket - buy a sheet of material so you can make a new one. And buy some non-setting gasket maker-cement such as Permatex #2, Loctite 518?? , Marston Hylomar to put on it.

 

Yeah, someone suggested Permatex on the justoldtrucks site as well.  I'm 95% sure I have some already but will pick some up on the way home today. Excited to see what we find.  Shockingly, Olson's has new old stock of the head gasket, intake mani gasket, exhaust mani gasket, exhaust mani to downpipe flange gasket, and a couple additional flange gaskets.  Based on the size description that Sandy Olson gave me over the phone it sounds like a carb to intake mani gasket. 

 

Better yet, there is an exact replica of my Autocar engine just down the road at the Smithsonian in DC.  Even has a partial cutaway!  Pointed out to me by another justoldtrucks guy.  Man, antique auto enthusiasts are great people.

 

http://amhistory.si.edu/onthemove/collection/object_68.html

 

 

[Restorer32]

It definitely had a pan gasket.

[rcr]

Autocar made their own engines and transmissions at this time. They used Hess Bright annular BALL bearings on the crankshaft made in Philadelphia. 

 

[Bud Tierney]

(Sigh)---shall we all doff our caps and engage in a moment of sympathetic silence for all the oft-maligned partscounter people??

R32's Spexc Sheet above shows the H models all using a 41/2x51/2. Clear, concise, .what could go wrong??

Need head gasket etc??

 41 McCord gasket (360 pgs) model-engine index shows--oops--"H" with own Y (#5250) and own M (#5272) engine (no years)...that catalog doesn't list any 4s, only 6s...OK, get older catalog..

1930 Mccord (300 pgs) lists #5250 for various models, 1=6Ton. 1920-26, incl an H4, that engine apparently issued in 4 and 41/4x5 (gas/kero?? upgrade?? options??--doesn't say) ......

It also lists # 5272 for various models 3-61/2Ton, incl "H-HS", (no years) a 41/2 x 5.  (30 McCord doesn't ID engines by either "Y" or "M", and doesn't have truck model-engine used index).....

So, how about piston assembly?

36 King Products

Ahhh---1920-28 H, some 26s and 27s,incl 27H, own "Y" motor....41/4 bore

Ooops--next line---1922-28 Cs, FH, GK, 27H,  27K series, Delivery truck A, 11/2-3Ton. own "H" motor...4" bore (but 41 McCord model-engine index doesn't list any "H" at all...

I'm not surprised they get it wrong sometimes, I'm surprised they're ever able to  ever get it right...

 

[Guest ottothecar]

18 hours ago, Bud Tierney said:

(Sigh)---shall we all doff our caps and engage in a moment of sympathetic silence for all the oft-maligned partscounter people??

R32's Spexc Sheet above shows the H models all using a 41/2x51/2. Clear, concise, .what could go wrong??

Need head gasket etc??

 41 McCord gasket (360 pgs) model-engine index shows--oops--"H" with own Y (#5250) and own M (#5272) engine (no years)...that catalog doesn't list any 4s, only 6s...OK, get older catalog..

1930 Mccord (300 pgs) lists #5250 for various models, 1=6Ton. 1920-26, incl an H4, that engine apparently issued in 4 and 41/4x5 (gas/kero?? upgrade?? options??--doesn't say) ......

It also lists # 5272 for various models 3-61/2Ton, incl "H-HS", (no years) a 41/2 x 5.  (30 McCord doesn't ID engines by either "Y" or "M", and doesn't have truck model-engine used index).....

So, how about piston assembly?

36 King Products

Ahhh---1920-28 H, some 26s and 27s,incl 27H, own "Y" motor....41/4 bore

Ooops--next line---1922-28 Cs, FH, GK, 27H,  27K series, Delivery truck A, 11/2-3Ton. own "H" motor...4" bore (but 41 McCord model-engine index doesn't list any "H" at all...

I'm not surprised they get it wrong sometimes, I'm surprised they're ever able to  ever get it right...

 

 

I appreciate the research!  

 

As I head up and do the oil and sump today it occurred to me that I have no idea how many quarts this thing takes.  Any ideas??  I'm thinking it should take at least 8 quarts, right?  R32, is any  of this information on your spec and dimension sheet?

[rcr]

There should be a large brass CAUTION plate above the water outlet to the water pump on the l/h side of the engine telling you to refill the crankcase with 2 gallons of fresh oil every two weeks also be sure to remove both oil drain plugs and withdraw and clean the screens behind them. 

Edited October 23, 2016 by rcr
addition (see edit history)

[Guest ottothecar]

Progress report, lots of pictures below.  Pulled the Autocar out of the barn on Saturday and began by draining the oil.  Massive drain plug, one on each side of the pan, each with its own screen-style filter behind in and leading to the oil pump.  I believe I used a 1-1/4" wrench to remove the plugs.  Both came off with no issues and dumped a bunch of milky oil.

 

 

The filters were fully clogged with sludge and chunks of things, but a couple cans of brake clean and gum cutter along with compressed air did the trick.

 

 

All of the pan bolts came off easily with the exception of two.  The picture below is what two of them looked like--they were essentially just rusted knobs.  It looked to me like the last person to drop the pan either lost or broke these two bolts and replaced them with lesser-quality parts which rusted out.  I didn't have my kit to remove them but was able to CAREFULLY tap star bit sockets on and break them free. 

 

 

We had thought the float for the oil level was stuck somewhere, but it was likely just gummed up in what was in the bottom of the pan.  It is truly miraculous that we didn't damage the internals of this engine by running it for the couple minutes that we did.  The sludge was unreal.  In hindsight we should have dropped the pan and cleaned it out before running it, but I guess we just got lucky that it held up.  We had added a couple quarts of oil before trying to start it, so it must have been running on all that oil just sitting on top of the sludge.

 

 

 

 

This was easily the worst sludge I've ever seen in a pan and probably will never see anything more extreme in my life.  It was like partially melted ice cream, anywhere from 1-2" thick all over the bottom of the pan.  Again, miraculous that the engine ran as well as it did (albeit briefly) when we started it up.  The internals looked good for the age, definitely superior build quality.  There was some surface rust here and there but nothing worth us being concerned about.  

 

 

 

It took me a good hour to just clean all the gunk out of the bottom of the oil pan, then I spent some time scraping off what was left of the cork gasket.  All in all it cleaned up ok.  The bottom of the oil pan had a slightly pitted spot (below) in the center.  Cause for concern?  We decided to NOT refill it with oil for now and instead remove the oil pump, pull it apart, and clean it.  We probably sucked up at least some of the sludgy oil that was in the bottom of the pan and don't want to risk any further damage.  We'll clean it up, put it back together, re-install it, and go from there. 

 

 

Edited October 24, 2016 by ottothecar (see edit history)

[autoluke]

Jeff

 

Would enjoy seeing the Autocar in the York area..where is it located ?

 

Phil

[Restorer32]

It's in the Agricultural and Industrial Museum. Google York Heritage Trust for hours etc. It was last run in the 1990s as far as I know. The actual owner, Louis Appell, died recently but I suspect the truck will remain in the museum.

[GARY F]

enjoy following your post. keep up the good work

[autoluke]

I have added a visit to the museum during my next trip to York.

 

Any chance that Snyder White Autocar was involved in the restoration ?

[Restorer32]

No they were not but the truck was stored in their showroom for several years prior to its going to the museum. Interestingly, after the elder Snyder died we were called to look at a 1908 REO that Snyders had sold new then took back in on trade. It was in a barn on property still owned by the Snyder family. It had sat there untouched since 1939, The Snyder family had some interest in restoring it but balked at the cost. They eventually auctioned it off. Was an extremely solid touring car, still had an original Snyder Auto Sales decal on the windshield. Sadly, money often trumps a family's sense of heritage.