Pulling a Dynaflow

[Rosiesdad]

When pulling out a Dynaflow from a "50 Super is it best to open the floor access panel to get to the bell housing bolts on top? I can reach them with double extensions but it's going to be a challenge putting them back in!

tia

Phil

[Aaron65]

I think I ended up using a ratcheting 5/8" box wrench on the top two bolts when I removed and reinstalled my engine.  It may not be accurate as far as torque settings, but it sure saved a lot of time!  

[HOMETOWN BUICK]

Maybe the Dynaflow chapter of the 1950 Shop Manual can help.

http://www.hometownbuick.com/1950-buick-dynaflow-transmission/

[Rosiesdad]

Thanks guys. I have the 50 Buick shop manual and a Dynaflow 48-50 "Revised" edition printed in 49. I guess I actually have a 51-52 Dynaflow according to my serial # (F-35). 

[buick5563]

On April 17, 2016 at 6:36 AM, Aaron65 said:

I think I ended up using a ratcheting 5/8" box wrench on the top two bolts when I removed and reinstalled my engine.  It may not be accurate as far as torque settings, but it sure saved a lot of time!  

This is a required tool.

[jackofalltrades70]

Take those bolts out before dropping the tranny down for removal. I had to jack the unit back up to take them out, then took the lower ones out after i lowered the jack and tilted it.  Tranny jack and another for supporting motor will make job easier

[Rosiesdad]

I am making progress. Got the rear end out and pulled the trans. I lowered the engine a bit and was able to reach the bell housing bolts with a double extension to break them loose. Then reached down from top and pulled them out. Looks like I will have to get the car up much higher to get the trans jack with the trans on it under the frame. I found a guy nearby in Castro Valley who says he can rebuild it for $3 or 4k. Beats the guy in Salinas who wanted $5k but not by much!

[95Cardinal]

Jim Hughes just rebuilt my 1958 Dynaflow.

Cost was just under $1000, but the total will depend on what your specific transmission requires.

He's very knowledgeable, great to work with and specializes in Dynaflows.

His number: 419-874-2393

 

I found him by searching for Dynaflow re-builder recommendations on this forum.

 

 

[buick man]

…. remember you are not simply sending the poodle out to be shampooed here so make sure, before you get someone to rebuild your dynaflow , that person is able to provide you the names and numbers of at least 3 satisfied Dynaflow owner's they have rebuilt for.  The vast majority of rebuild drama stories is because it is by far easier to just go in there and replace gaskets as opposed to actually knowing what to look for and how to spec out for abnormal wear on the various key essential parts.  If this is not done, you essentially get the same worn out transmission back but with good seals.  Make sure they have a test stand where a complete post rebuild / pre install P, R, N. D, L, pressure(s) test setup is made to assure proper functioning as the Dynaflow is all about fluid psi and flow.  Also be aware, there are various small part combinations that also need to fluctuate and move/change during these p.s.i. tests and if not installed or omitted the trans will not operate properly …. So with that said, commit on paper a detailed various task by task, performance list that will be completed as built during the rebuild process much like you would do with a building contractor remodeling a section of your house. Doing this will insure the quality of the overall rebuild.  If the guy bulks and tells you he thinks sound like a possible trouble making proposition because you are requiring him to be completely responsible for all his actions, ( which by the way most iffy shop owners will do ) then at that point smile and thank him for saving you the possible trouble of him causing you grief and pain and walk away.

 

Cost:  Anything over $ 800 for a reseal job with no R&R only is just beginning to edge into the " U said how much ??" category and a reseal job including R& R n the $ 3000 - 4,000 range is in the outright grand theft with conspiracy to defraud category since most guys today at best can only competently perform gasket replacements after first calling up their retired uncle for repeatably for advice, then buttoning it back up without the other true post build  testing and wear analysis having been made.  For that even $ 1,500 in my opinion is too high.  If you cannot remove the transmission yourself, then hire a shop to just remove/reinstall ( R & R) it for you.  The shop however in doing this will have to make and installl a temporary support sling (chain or metal brace) for the motor to secure it from unwanted movement while the car is moved and stored until the transmission reinstall occurs.  This would then allow you to ship the transmission out to a known, capable & affordable endpoint for repairs.  Again, even if you just have the shop do the R & R, draw up a itemized contract agreement that the shop owner agrees to and have a copy of it attached to his shop contract and invoice.

 

Another and possibly the best option is to purchase another transmission for your car and have that completely rebuilt and tested Before you you attempt to remove the current bad trans out of your car.  That way it will be a simple low cost R & R proposition.  The transmission you find should be of known or suspected good overall condition and therefor a good candidate for rebuilding.

 

Having your Transmission rebuilt by Sending it out :  If my memory serves us right, folks like JIm Hughes will instruct you on how to best go about strap pallet crating and the various shipping options you have when sending out your Dynaflow to his place. I think, shipping cost is around $ 300 range each way.  You can obtain a very decent wooden shipping pallet crate from your local brick and stone building materials supplier as they usually charge around $ 50 for a good decent pallet, as they ship bricks and pavers on these strong wooden pallets that far exceed the weight of your 250 lb Dynaflow.  You can also after properly strapping it down securely, have it completely shrink wrapped with the special shipping strength wrap just like they have available for shrink wrapping the bricks onto the wooden pallets ( tuff stuff ).

Edited April 22, 2016 by buick man (see edit history)

[Ttotired]

All great advice "Buick Man", but as an automotive professional myself, I must say that I must be an "Iffy Shop Owner" because if someone came into my business asking for what you are recommending, They would not get the opportunity to thank me for "saving you the possible trouble of him causing you grief and pain and walk away" because they would get booted out faster than they came in, because I know someone coming in asking for all of this IS trouble waiting to happen.

Also, all of these documented tests take time (lots of time), so that time needs to be paid for by someone, so, If you didnt get booted out the door and they did rebuild your transmission, it would probably cost you double to get everything documented.

I do not work in a transmission shop, so I might be off here, but how would you set up a dynaflow to do pressure checks without at least a nailhead to attach it to or the car to fit it into, pretty sure that most trans shops (even in USA) would much prefer to have the car for testing rather than trying to adapt a dinosaur transmission to whatever they have as a test bench, as for reference checks, I would cite "privacy laws" and tell you to check me out on the "net" because If I stitched someone up, it would be up there for sure and lastly, if you do not trust whoever you take your vehicle to to do the repairs, go somewhere else.

 

 

[Rosiesdad]

Thanks guys,

I pulled it out and took it to a local old timer who enjoys working on the old stuff. He has done work for Neil Young and the Brizzo Bros. among others. He will check and adjust all the wear items. I hope it only needs a re-seal as it was working fine before it blew its ATF out. I feel his quote was high but I want a high quality job done. Everything costs a lot more here in the Bay Area. I recently got  fence quotes for a 6ft redwood fence. They all want around $40 a linear foot! insanity!

I will post as we progress.

 

Thx

Phil

[buick man]

The psi test procedures are well documented in both the official shop & separate Dynaflow Transmission Service Manuals.  It takes a lot of work to install a Dynaflow what with the torque tube and all other components that need to be dealt with, so doing the tests out of the car is just brain dead simple.  The shop that is even contemplating and offering to do the service should be well aware of this before hand and excepting the job.  The psi transmission stand for the dynaflow transmission consists of a simple stand that accommodates 5 psi gauges set to measure each fluid psi range of the transmission as set to a specific rpm test range.  If the shop is not set up for this or does not perform this as standard protocol for the rebuild, then the owner will no doubt get back the same worn transmission but with new clutches and seals.  So this is why one should have a separate signed itemized agreement as to what will and or will not be performed.  If the shop then tells you to leave " faster than how you arrived" then you have saved yourself all the future crap and grief that would of most certainly ensued.

 

[jackofalltrades70]

On April 21, 2016 at 11:16 PM, 95Cardinal said:

Jim Hughes just rebuilt my 1958 Dynaflow.

Cost was just under $1000, but the total will depend on what your specific transmission requires.

He's very knowledgeable, great to work with and specializes in Dynaflows.

His number: 419-874-2393

 

I found him by searching for Dynaflow re-builder recommendations on this forum.

 

 

One great recommendation for Jim.  He had a tranny on the shelf rebuilt, shipped it and I sent him my core back. Quick service and tranny works flawlessly. 56' special

Matt

[smithbrother]

If I wasn't trained to work on a Dynaflow, I surely wouldn't be commenting on such.  Leave that to qualified people.

 

Dale in Indy 

[buick man]

Phil:  Well just because he has worked for Young and Bros may account for his rates, but should not account for his Dynaflow abilities or not.  For that about of dough, like we said, get his Dynaflow references and have a prebuilt conference and have him participate in the writing up of a "As Built Workup Document".  That way he and you will have direct input in constructing it and it will also give you an opportunity to ascertain if this guy knows what he is doing or not and what kind of job he is expecting to give you by the detailed or not detailed input on his part.  Buyer Beware !

 

Dale:  Good point but who's currently training or who has trained technicians in the past 25-30 years to work on Dynaflows ? Just finding someone even vaguely familiar with the transmission is hard to begin with, and even harder to find someone who is not just a sealant and gasket junkie, you knows what to inspect and how to inspect the various multitude of hard parts within the Dynaflow.  Then it's even harder to find someone versed on the various ways to 'hop up' a Dynaflow as they did back in the day for better performance.  That leaves the few qualified now doing the work, as folks who have been taking and rebuilding these transmissions on their own or learned how by doing so while having a mentor to help along the way.  Most shops I have contacted over at least the past 18 years, have told me the same line over and over, " Yeah we used to do them, but the guy who did them retired and took all his tools, testing equipment and knowledge with him". 

[Rosiesdad]

Progress was made. Trans was completely rebuilt. Lots of wear throughout. All wear parts replaced. All bushings replaced. All updates performed. Ready to go back in. I had a heck of a time getting the shock links off the axle. I need to replace the links but can't pound the upper link mount out of the frame mounts. Is there a tool or do I need to apply heat or bigger hammer?.....

Thx

Phil

[Rosiesdad]

My transmission guy says a water to oil cooler would work better than the front mounted oil cooler that came on this particular car.('50 Super) Is that something someone changed? I see the manual mentions hooking up water lines to the stock configuration. Anyone have an opinion on this?

Thx

Phil

[Beemon]

I'm not sure what you mean by water to oil cooler, but I when I had my Dynaflow rebuilt locally, I put in a remote oil cooler in front of the radiator. IIRC the old style transmission coolers were just a tube that ran through the bottom of the radiator and not actually a cooler. How well they worked, I can't comment, but I haven't been disappointed with the aftermarket cooler. Even after a 30 minute drive, I can grab the inlet/outlet lines to the cooler and it's only moderately hot, and the dipstick is cold to the touch. I can't say the same about the engine dipstick.

[JohnD1956]

56 was the first year for a Buick with the trans cooler in the bottom of the radiator.  I believe the 50 would have had a separate cooler mounted under the car, on or near the trans mount, but that could be incorrect. Engine coolant is pumped there by the water pump and results in a lot of hose needed to supply and refresh the unit.

 

I think the trans guy means well, but I would stick with any aftermarket trans cooler mounted in front of the radiator. The main thing is to mount the cooler so that it is near enough to the radiator, so that at idle, the engine fan pulls air over this cooler.  Too far in front could be an issue, and I would keep it off the radiator itself. 

 

In my opinion, the cooler the transmission runs, the longer the life, but I would love to hear others views on that.

[Rosiesdad]

Well I was able to use a bigger hammer and after a few good whacks the shock link popped loose from the frame on the right side. I thought it wasn't so bad after all. Then I went to the left side......Hours later I gave up. NOTHING will separate the tapered pin from it's mount, I pounded on it until the nut mushroomed into a cold rivet.  I heated it up to orange three times. The link came off the pin and after pounding it with a sledge hammer the pin is now moving around but still won't come out. It appears to still be retained by the seat for the pin but the whole thing is rattling around inside the wall of the frame rail. I assume the seat has become detached from the rail somehow! Last resort appears to be a sawsall. I think I can cut the pin on the inside of the frame rail but it still may be stuck in the seat. This project has ground to a halt. I don't think taking the fender off will even help. I can't even imagine what is going on here. It's totally loose flopping around but it absolutely will not come out of the frame. 

[buick5563]

Use a tie rod puller between the head and frame.

 

http://m.homedepot.com/p/Powerbuilt-Tie-Rod-Ball-Joint-Separator-648468/204505272?cm_mmc=Shopping|THD|G|0|G-BASE-PLA-D25T-HandTools|&gclid=Cj0KEQjwncO7BRC06snzrdSJyKEBEiQAsUaRjGgV0TqHhvTbLJZcHAuOCEvw0ZLUwFUxsZGSSG-DER0aAieP8P8HAQ&gclsrc=aw.ds

[SpecialEducation]

On 6/23/2016 at 9:18 AM, JohnD1956 said:

In my opinion, the cooler the transmission runs, the longer the life, but I would love to hear others views on that.

 

While I generally agree that heat kills transmissions (well, it really kills the fluid, which then kills the transmission), cold fluid that doesn't flow right can also be an issue.  In fact, some high performance vehicles have a warning light when the transmission is too COLD.  While it's perfectly driveable cold, it's not recommended to tromp on it until things warm up.  The idea is that there's an optimal temperature range that keeps the fluid at the appropriate viscosity.  I think by running the trans fluid through the radiator tank, it helps to maintain a more consistent fluid temperature.  Fluid also transfers heat more efficiently than air, so you don't need to have as large of a cooler when you do fluid-to-fluid vs. fluid-to-air.

 

That said, the way most of these cars are driven, it probably doesn't matter much either way.  If you aren't pulling a trailer, racing the thing, or driving in Alaska in February, you'll probably be just fine.  The hotter the fluid gets, the shorter its life, so if there are signs of it running hot, just change the fluid more often.

Edited June 28, 2016 by SpecialEducation (see edit history)

[Rosiesdad]

@Buick5563... Yep. I tried my pickle fork. can't really get it up in there. Plus there is no head left. The bushing separated during initial pounding and heating.

Re trans coolers; I will probably just reinstall the aftermarket one since the fluid looked fine. I live in a temperate climate and don't go on long tours.

 

Thanks all!

Phil 

[old-tank]

 

Apparently yours is attached inside a boxed part of the frame and at this point is not salvageable.  Pictured is the rear frame of a 55 with the shock link attachment attached to the frame just behind the rear tire.  You might try to attach this or make something similar to get the shock to work.

Willie

[Rosiesdad]

Well. I remember when I thought working on cars was relaxing and fun.... What a PITA this turned out to be. After pounding on the upper shock link for a week off and on it basically turned the tapered pin into a cold rivet. It simply would not come out of the tapered bush. Only recourse was to drill it out CAREFULLY. I cut the mushroom off the end and drilled a pilot hole followed by a bit slightly smaller than the bushing. At that point I could snap off the rest of the pin but still couldn't get the remainder out of the bush. SO. I air chiseled the rivet holding the bush mount, (The inner frame rail), and pried it apart allowing the bush to fall out the bottom. It appeared to be attached to the frame rail at one time but all the pounding knocked it loose days ago. 

Once on the bench I easily got the last bits out of the tapered bush. I reinstalled it, clamped it in place, pulled the frame rails together and put a nut and bolt where the rivet was. Installed the new shock link and Bobs ur Uncle. Now back to the Dynaflow.....

[Rosiesdad]

More progress. I rented a HD transmission jack and had to get the car up another 4 inches. This jack was essential, the tilt function was needed to really do this right. Got it in and bolted up. I didn't see any alignment marks on the driveshaft as some manuals show . Will hope for the best. Used a come-along to pull the rear end up tight after I got shaft aligned and started.  I got a new set of brake lines from "In Line Tube". They connect but they don't fit the original mount. The fitting isn't even close. There's no shoulder and the nut is too big for the mount. I guess people don't return stuff that doesn't fit correctly. I WILL and I will leave them a crappy review for wasting my time.. Now to bleed the brakes, add tranny fluid and see if my battery is still OK.

 

Keeping my fingers crossed

[Rosiesdad]

As a final act of Bucky trying my patience, the passenger door absolutely refused to open I jacked him up in front then back and that seemed to help as I yanked hard as I could and it finally popped open and worked fine once on the ground again. As I suspected.... I had to pick up a new (3EH-VHD) battery from Interstate. I called around to talk to my local auto supply places and they are all absolutely clueless. I looked up their part # and called them up and they can't answer the phone correctly or even look up the part. Incompetence rules!

Fortunately I found one in stock at the Interstate  distributor in Benicia not far away. It really spins nicely now. 

Took a couple short drives. All seems well. I still get some judder when in reverse but the re-builder said I would and it would smooth out with time. 

I hope it does. I wiped most the dust off and will polish up the chrome over the next few days. Looks like Bucky will be ready for the Danville Hot Summer Nights show next Thurs. 7/14.  Thanks for all the advice and get out there and drive!

Phil

[Aaron65]

Congratulations!  One of these days, I'm going to get sick of the dripping and have to do the same thing.  I also head straight to the Interstate dealer when I need a battery; they fill it up after I buy it, so it's brand new.  Unfortunately, I've found that batteries only last about 5 years in the '53.  Oh well, it's pretty.

[SpecialEducation]

On June 28, 2016 at 9:12 AM, SpecialEducation said:

 

While I generally agree that heat kills transmissions (well, it really kills the fluid, which then kills the transmission), cold fluid that doesn't flow right can also be an issue.  In fact, some high performance vehicles have a warning light when the transmission is too COLD.  While it's perfectly driveable cold, it's not recommended to tromp on it until things warm up.  The idea is that there's an optimal temperature range that keeps the fluid at the appropriate viscosity.  I think by running the trans fluid through the radiator tank, it helps to maintain a more consistent fluid temperature.  Fluid also transfers heat more efficiently than air, so you don't need to have as large of a cooler when you do fluid-to-fluid vs. fluid-to-air.

 

That said, the way most of these cars are driven, it probably doesn't matter much either way.  If you aren't pulling a trailer, racing the thing, or driving in Alaska in February, you'll probably be just fine.  The hotter the fluid gets, the shorter its life, so if there are signs of it running hot, just change the fluid more often.

 

 

FWIW... I just pulled an aux transmission cooler out of a '96 B-body Caddy to install in the '91 OCC (which will be a tow rig when I'm done with it).  The factory plumbing went to the aux cooler first, then into the radiator tank, and back to the trans...

 

$13 for the cooler, $20 for the lines...