Off Topic ... Maybe

[Standard Eight]

you can absolutely purchase Office 2013 or 2016 from sources other than directly from Microsoft.

 

Sorry for not being clear in my above post.  While you can still buy Office 2016 at retail locations such as Walmart, Best Buy, etc. these retail "box" versions of Office 2016 no longer come with the installation media/DVD disks.  You certainly can purchase retail box versions of Office 2016 from other than Microsoft but these retail box versions now only contain a license key card.  You would then use the license key card to download and activate Office 2016 from Microsoft directly.  Different from Office 2013 and earlier you have to have an internet connection to install and activate retail versions of Office 2016.  I don't care for this current licensing model for Microsoft products but that is what it is at the moment.

 

If you would like to have the Office 2016 media/DVD as backups you can either get the media at a Microsoft Retail Store or you can order a copy from the Microsoft Online Store.

 

Sorry for the confusion - Bob

[padgett]

To be complete, if you have an MSDN subscription you can download the ISOs for many things including Office and an associated key, then create your own media.

 

Next when a license is purchased, you can usually order a DVD for an additional charge. Also when you download Windows 10, there is an option to download an .ISO and create your own DVD. Microsoft even provides a tool to do so.

 

Also volume licenses often come with a DVD.

 

Up until about a year ago, Office was preloaded on tablets and larger & a license with key included, then it switched in about mid 2013 to the 365 or a limited "trial".

 

Microsoft is continually changing policies. Some work and others don't. They also provide free readers for most procucts

 

If you do not like, there are alternatives. I used to really like WordStar but they had trouble intergrating mice into 5.0.

 

Point is that a DVD is always available just you may need to create it. I suspect this may partially be so that running changes to the product and bundles can be live. Does mean that what you download today may be different from tomorrow's edition.

 

ps the big toolbar change to Office came with Office 97, been pretty stable since.

[John_S_in_Penna]

Not that I'm a Microsoft proponent, but how is this any different than annual styling changes by automakers?

 

You're right, Joe:  it's similar.

Back in the late 1950's--with the cars we love today--

manufacturers were roundly criticized for changing the

styling every year and introducing "planned obsolescence."

 

I say, if you have an excellent product, don't change it 

for the sake of change.  How many great cars got changed

for the worse the very next year, just to introduce a new

taillight or grille pattern?

 

But now some car manufacturers have taken it to the

other extreme--keeping dull gray sedans ad infinitum!

 

The moral of the story is:  Improvement is vastly different from change.

Edited January 5, 2016 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[39BuickEight]

I upgrade my computers as my work does.  It's like getting free training before I have to do it.  When they switch to 10, they will train us on the differences.  At that time I will switch to 10 at home.  Right now we are on 7 at work, so I am on 7 at home.  Plus, work gives employees software benefits, such as Office for $9,95, so it makes sense to match it for that reason also.  I don't use my home computer for work, but it's nice to be able to have an entire IT department at my disposal there for questions since I have the exact same OS.

[D Yaros]

Wow. That was a rather rude reply :-(

Joe has a way with words, at times.

[D Yaros]

If you do not like, there are alternatives. I used to really like WordStar but they had trouble intergrating mice into 5.0.

 

WordStar; that is going back a bit?

 

I was  a big fan of the Eagle II-E  with a cp/m os back-in-the-day.  It  came with a cutting edge word processing program names Spellbinder.

[Spinneyhill]

The shaking table on which I did my retaining wall modelling for my PhD was run by an Apple II E. The data logger was an IBM AT compatible machine and all my data processing was done on a "XT" with two floppy drives. It was wonderful when I had a 20 MB hard disk installed. I even found a bug in DOS 3.1 - it would not release memory when I told it to with Turbo Pascal. It took 2 weeks of messing around and some machine code programming to find the bug. No-one stored data as text - it took 2.5 times as much space as binary. My graphics were direct screen-memory writes - going through the operating system, like well behaved programs do, was too slow and cumbersome.The PDP-11 (the departmental computer) had one MB of memory and ran a 10-inch floppy drive. I even remember coding topographical surveys onto special booking forms for punch card operators to type up for feeding to the computer on punched cards. I wrote my thesis on WordPerfect 5.1 - now that was a good piece of software in its day.

 

Thank goodness we have moved on from all that.

 

Win 10 was a disaster for me, as I said. But what I saw was very good. When I did things, the dialog boxes looked familiar (like Win 7). My problems probably stemmed from a 6-year old computer with a try-anything dabbler - me - driving it. It had become corrupted in several areas and the Win 10 install just carried them forward. The return to Win 7 added more.

 

I use Open Office. I also use Thunderbird and Cyberfox. I don't have a use for MS Office other than to look at my old work emails - in Outlook. I don't use Windows Media Centre - I like to know what is going on behind the scenes and where things are - it is quicker that way. I use VLC for video and Irfanview for pictures - resizing for this forum is a piece of cake in Irfanview. I don't even use Adobe Reader - Foxit is much better. I haven't found a good secure substitute for Flash yet though.

 

Now for a curiosity in English usage. padgett says "I resemble that remark". I don't know what he means - that usage is not familiar to me. Does he mean to agree or resent or disagree with the remark?

[John_S_in_Penna]

Now for a curiosity in English usage. padgett says "I resemble that remark". I don't know what he means - that usage is not familiar to me. 

 

The sentence, "I resemble that remark," had humorous origins.

It is a malapropism in English--the misuse of English for humorous effect.

 

With a quick internet search, I couldn't find its origin.

Maybe its origin isn't known. 

Edited January 5, 2016 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[padgett]

My memory for anecdotes precedes the Internet (aka DarpaNet/ArpaNet) . Somewhere in the dig are 8" floppies, a 9 tack tape device, IBM 5151 (got sick of green phosphor), an IBM 3030 (origin of "Winchester"), and a copy of CPM-86.

[joe_padavano]

The sentence, "I resemble that remark," had humorous origins.

It is a malapropism in English--the misuse of English for humorous effect.

 

With a quick internet search, I couldn't find its origin.

Maybe its origin isn't known. 

 

The Three Stooges, from the episode "Idle Roomers"

 

[MCHinson]

Since this one is already all over the place, I may as well chime in as well. I was born too late to use punchcards, but remember my brother bringing a box of punchcards home from college that contained some project of some sort. The first computer I used at home was a Radio Shack TRS80. I could not afford it but my boss loaned it to me so I could learn how to use it so I could sell more of them at the Radio Shack Dealer Store where I worked.

 

I remember a little from my Basic Computer Programming course which required the use of a 5 1/2 inch floppy to save all of the work for the instructor to grade. The floppy was a great improvement over the TRS 80's "csave" and "cload" commands with its special cassette player/recorder.

 

I have a lot of older friends, many whom I met through AACA. I have managed to work my way into a (usually unpaid) job as IT consultant for quite a few of those older friends. I personally use Windows 7 on my laptop and am happy with it. I also have an engraving business with engraving tables that are all run on Windows XP machines. I have a few spare XP machines for the business and even a Windows 3.1 laptop that I use for programming of Engraving Table Controller Firmware that requires a DOS computer to program.  

 

One of my friends recently called me in a panic with a computer problem. He had accidentally upgraded to Windows 10. I will admit that it only took me a few minutes to figure out my way around the Windows 10 software to figure out and solve his problem. Based on that experience, I think I will be OK when I have to switch to Windows 10, but for now I will stick with Windows 7. My daughter has a Windows 10 tablet/laptop that she loves. I will probably play with that a bit to get familiar with it before I upgrade my laptop.

[padgett]

Could raise a KSR & ASR. Won't.

[cahartley]

People seem to think they must buy the latest version of Office there is.

Absolutely not true as even Office XP works perfectly fine even on a WIN 10 system with the service packs and compatibility packs installed.

If you have a product key you can download old versions from MS there >>> http://microsoft_office.en.downloadastro.com/old_versions/

If you don't have a product key you can still purchase many of the old versions at greatly reduced prices.

There's a reason why MS OFFICE is the gold standard.

[Spinneyhill]

There's a reason why MS OFFICE is the gold standard.

 

I think the main reason is that they destroyed all opposition in the '80s and '90s by giving the software away on new computers. WordPerfect was far and away the best word processor at the time. Lotus 123 was far better than XL. Netscape was way better than IE. But you can't compete with monopolies that give your bread and butter away. Remember the anti-trust court cases?

 

MS were well known back then for "vapour-ware". They promised releases of new software on a certain date, didn't make it, promised again for a month later, failed, and so on. They dragged users along with hope of better products, then barely performed.

 

They are competing better now. Apple and Google are kicking their butts.

[joe_padavano]

 

There's a reason why MS OFFICE is the gold standard.

 

I think the main reason is that they destroyed all opposition in the '80s and '90s by giving the software away on new computers. WordPerfect was far and away the best word processor at the time. Lotus 123 was far better than XL. Netscape was way better than IE. But you can't compete with monopolies that give your bread and butter away. Remember the anti-trust court cases?

 

 

I agree that Wordperfect was the better word processor, but the feds have mandated that proposals be submitted in MS Office format, so that's what I use today.  Note that this mandate started at the same time that the gov't was suing Microsoft for being a monopoly. 

 

Your tax dollars at work...

 

And to make this somewhat automotive-related, how can anyone who's ever used a Microsoft product think that the software in self-driving cars will be infallible?

[padgett]

Well there is a lot less of it. Fiero runs on a 2k memory, Reattae on 32k (used to design engine and flight controls for F16 and F111 then spent years pulling apart virus and malware code, cars are easy). Just need to know a Motorolla 6800 series microprocessor (GM)

ps years ago there was a goal of "100% compatible" when there were many many makers of PCs. The three parts were Flight Simulator (a program that didn't need an OS), WordStar, and Lotus 123.

123 gain market share over CALC because it was fast on a 4.77MHz 8088 and it was fast because it also did not use the OS calls but wrote directly to the screen memory buffer above segment A000h.

Edited January 6, 2016 by padgett (see edit history)

[Spinneyhill]

Agreed. No software is infallible. Apple and Google also put out bug fix updates just like everyone else. I notice brakes and steering are computer controlled in many vehicles so reliability is considered to be extremely good. It is far more frightening that someone can take control from outside the vehicle, as demonstrated recently.

 

MS capturing the market is why gov't dep'ts demand MS format. It is shameful they demand a proprietary format. Where is the competition in that in the great land of competition? The trouble with those formats is that you also send out all your company styles, document definitions and so on, which is intellectual property.

 

Open Office can read and save files in that format of course.

[capngrog]

The concept of computer-driven/operated vehicles is indeed a scary one.  This is something I think we'll see in the not too distant future.  I can foresee special lanes for such cars, much like the present so-called HOV lanes, except that the computer lanes will have special guide strips embedded in the road surface with other sensors and transmitters to control the speed and following distance of the cars.  This is doable now, and I think that , with sufficient interlocks, can be made quite safe (but still scary).

 

The thing that worries me most, however, is what is already present in our vehicles:  onboard data recorders.  I'm not sure how many parameters are recorded on these things, and I don't think that there are design/manufacturing standards as presently exist for aviation flight data recorders and cockpit voice recorders.  The looming legal question is:  "Who owns the data in these on-board vehicle data recorders?"  Another question is" "How long will it be before data recorders are required to be installed in older vehicles?"  At present, I don't think we have to worry too much about the second question; however, the first one about data ownership is already with us.  Regardless of the question of vehicle recorder data ownership, such data can be subpoenaed via a court of law RIGHT NOW.

 

Computers: Can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em.

 

Just sumthin' else to ponder,

Grog

[joe_padavano]

I'm an aerospace engineer and work with a lot of systems that have safety-critical software.  The amount of testing and rigorous configuration control is time consuming and expensive - and mistakes STILL get made!  I frankly can't see how this same level of rigor can be cost-effectively implemented on safety-critical systems in automobiles, accounting for model equipment differences, failed sensors, salt corrosion of connectors, etc, etc.  When some Tesla fanboy brags about how the Tesla mothership was able to download the autodrive software, I just shake my head and point out that some third party was able to alter the software that controls the car's brakes, steering, and throttle, without the owner's knowledge!  What could possibly go wrong?

[Spinneyhill]

How hard is it to unlock a computer controlled car with central locking using a computer and the right transmitter (IR?)?

Edited January 7, 2016 by Spinneyhill (see edit history)

[padgett]

Depends on the car. OnStar can.

[60FlatTop]

OnStar will always make me smile. I had a Buick Enclave that I accidentally locked with the key in the ignition while at the gas pumps. The OnStar phone number was in the car. I had to call a local dealership and monkey around to get the OnStar number. Once I did they couldn't unlock the car due to the metal roof over the pumps. I called an older friend, told him where to find the spare key in a bowl of keys on a table in our kitchen, and asked if he'd bring them.

About 20 minutes later he pulls in with his rusty 20 year old car and comes walking across the parking lot carrying the bowl with all the spare keys. What a sight. He's grumbling about how he don't know which key fits, OnStar's signal is bouncing into the depths of space, and I'm about in tears laughing at technology.

 

After two other similar incidents with OnStar, I let the subscription lapse. A monthly report on my tire air pressure didn't interest me enough.

Bernie

[padgett]

Imagine some politico will see Fast & Furious 6 and panic. Thing is that you do not really need a red blinky thing for access. Not for the average hacker but governments now...

 

First combo of computers and car didlling was in the original Italian Job with Bennie Hill doing the honors so nothing new, where the is a computer there is a way particularly when the mfr makes it easy. Key is access. If you have access you can do anything.