The NEW GN & GNX....here they come America!

[Mr Buick]

Maybe, if we speak loud enough, they wont make them a 4 door.......

2015 Buick Grand National and GNX: 25 Cars Worth Waiting For 2014–2017 – Future Cars – Car and Driver

[JohnD1956]

Yelling loudly for a two door Buick will most likely get you a sore throat only. But i could not agree with you more.

[60FlatTop]

Here it is. I'm pretty sure Buick and Cadillac are re-badging Vauxhalls when their creative juices are flowing. If there's a line you can have my place.

Bernie

[smithbrother]

Four doors as of late are really cool when you put some power, and handling in them.

In today's world a 4-door would produce more sales, and can be made very attractive.

I understand the 2-door attractiveness, but just look around, lots and lots of 4-doors are really cool pieces. Just my opinion, but I would guess design engineers would agree.....

Hope Buick does something, but won't hold my breath.

Dale in Indy

Edited August 4, 2013 by smithbrother (see edit history)

[Guest Rob McDonald]

BERNIE, how exciting, they're bringing back the Cavalier. Oh tepid joy.

C'mon, fellow old fogeys, there will come a time when all the hot cars will be 4-doors. Maybe we're there already. The glory days of 2-doors were the '50s and '60s, when they just had to be hardtops. Few guys under 40, who now buy hot cars, have any memory of them, except maybe as what their cool uncle drove. Or great uncle. The replicars now in production - Camaro, Challenger, and Mustang (although it never went away) - are over-sized tributes to pony cars, not 2-door hardtops like Riviera, T-bird, or Chrysler 300K. The only real 2-door hardtops now being built are by Mercedes-Benz but they have zero cool factor.

I guess the billions of dollars it takes to tool-up a new World Car doesn't allow for structural model variations. We're lucky to get powertrain options that range from adequate and frugal to gonzo and ridiculous, all on the same platform. There are unique derivatives, such as the current Camaro, which shares its architecture with the Australian Holden Commodore SS. But that's a whole 'nother niche market, not just an model option within a single series.

Funny thing about Australia, sporty 2-doors never really caught on. Nor did convertibles, which is bizarre considering the California-like climate of most of its cities. Chrysler Australia had a Valiant-based Charger for a while but I don't think it was matched by much competition from Holden or Ford of Australia. The home-market manufacturers - of which soon only Holden will remain - have always built sedans, station wagons (they call 'em estate cars), and their beloved Utes. Those are half-car, half-pickup, in the El Camino/Ranchero pattern.

[Guest my3buicks]

I would never even consider a two door car for my every day car, and all my collector cars are 2 doors - I like the idea of performance 4 door cars and find many of the high end 4 door European's to be very desirable, I feel the same way about the current Regal Turbo's, one could sit in my driveway any day of the week.

[60FlatTop]

Crocodile Dundee looked at the 2.0 turbocharged Vauxhall and said "Victor! That's not a performance 4 door sedan."

Here's what you do with them:

Bernie

Edited August 5, 2013 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)

[NTX5467]

One bad thing about 2-door cars in the modern environment . . . is that IF you make the door long enough for a graceful entrance to the rear seat (IF the seat belts don't resist your presence!), you'll need a door about 1/3 the length of the car. This makes parking lot "side clearance" somewhat tight to get out of the car in, unless you're like Lexus and deisgn a trick door hinge that moves the door forward and open at the same time. Moving the B-pillar back, even a few inches, can compromise any side impact protection from the body structure for the front seat passengers . . . putting it ALL squarely on the door structure (plus hinges, latches, and striker bolts!!) to stay intact and attached.

With my '77 Camaro, either I got a little "thicker" in girth or the parking slots got narrower, slightly. End result was that I had to squeeze between the door and body as I held the door to keep from hitting the vehicle parked beside me. If I managed to find a parking space that was "two", when I'd return, there would be a vehicle parked in that prior open space. Guess how close that vehicle was to mine?? I usually got back in the Camaro, but it took some "flexibility moves" . . . rolling down the window usually helped a little, too. Of course, the people who parked beside the Camaro had no notion of how much harder they made it for me to re-enter my car as their tall SUV or elevated pickup truck now sat next to it. NOT to mention the "zero side vision" such vehicles provide for those parked next to them!!! Even at the Sonic Drive-Ins!!!

In many cases, 2-door cars just aren't as practical as they used to be. If you want decent accessibility to the rear seat area, you need a 4-door to get that in modern smaller cars.

I like 2-drs, too, but they seem to have become a little too hard to live with on a daily basis. NOW . . . if they could return to "pocket doors" or find a way to do gull-wings economically . . . THAT would be progress! But, I suspect the novelty of such things would elevate the prices too much. Guess we'll have to wait for Hyundai/Kia to figure it out for us?????

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

[JohnD1956]

Sometimes practicality is over-rated. Yes, it is harder to get in and out of the car, Yes, plenty of hi performance 4 door cars are built and enjoy a marvelous reputation. But sometimes it is about the image. Buick has not had a 2 door contender in a decade. I would like to see one, although I would really rather see a 2 door wagon. I'll continue to dream that the General will open the gate to the creative before I have nothing left to make a purchase.

[lancemb]

I love the fact that so many place such a premium on 2 doors versus 4 doors, because I love the 4 doors if they have a nice roof line and it just makes them more affordable for me!

[Guest BJM]

This is another case of GM telling the buyer how it's going to be, not the other way around. There HAS to be a market for a 2 door halo Buick. The last gen Rivieras sold pretty well, and Camaros, Mustangs and Challengers do well. The folks with money, at least quite a portion of it, are still empty nester baby boomers and BOTH of them (assuming a partner/spouse) don't need a four door for the grandkids. I own a new Ford F150 but my daily driver is a 100,000 mile 1987 Toyota Supra Turbo with a 2 inch lowered stance. When I get the F150 paid off, I am getting a "fun" car, probably a Mustang GT - but if Buick had a 2 door personal luxury coupe, I would definitely consider it.

[60FlatTop]

A little off topic, but I like those affordable orphans myself. I've had a bunch of Jaguars and I'll never say a word to dispute their bad reputation. I'm vacillating on one now. It's a Looong way from catching on fire now. I may sell a perfectly good Buick convertible to make it happen.

Bernie

[Guest Kingoftheroad]

I grew up with family cars being 4 doors & the sporty cars were 2 door. My heart hits the floor when someone takes a well known musclecar and turns it into a 4 door sedan, like the Dodge Charger..

[Guest my3buicks]

Personally I think the new Chargers are fantastic looking cars - as good looking as any Charger ever built. I am not really sure what kind of market is really out there for luxury 2 doors, you sure don't see many of the Cadillac CTS coupes out there, or at least in this area. I live in a rather affluent area north of Pittsburgh, and here anyway the upper end 4 doors and of course SUV's rule the driveways, some convertibles, some upper end coupes. The Enclave is actually rather popular around here.

[ice man]

If this is the best that BUICK can come up with, then I can see them following Pontiac and Oldsmobile. Absolutely no

"Muscle Car" styling what so ever and if per chance they go ahead with that design,for God's sake DUMP THE GRILL!!!!!!!

I wouldn't even consider buying a used one let alone a new one.

[Thriller]

This is another case of GM telling the buyer how it's going to be, not the other way around. There HAS to be a market for a 2 door halo Buick. The last gen Rivieras sold pretty well, and Camaros, Mustangs and Challengers do well. The folks with money, at least quite a portion of it, are still empty nester baby boomers and BOTH of them (assuming a partner/spouse) don't need a four door for the grandkids. I own a new Ford F150 but my daily driver is a 100,000 mile 1987 Toyota Supra Turbo with a 2 inch lowered stance. When I get the F150 paid off, I am getting a "fun" car, probably a Mustang GT - but if Buick had a 2 door personal luxury coupe, I would definitely consider it.

Microsoft does the same thing with computing...I don't like it, but it is what it is.

The people with money are the boomer's parents...from a demographic perspective...they didn't finance their lives with debt like the boomers and subsequent generations have. Some have money, but generally speaking, more of them are in hock than most people think. Keeping up with the Jones' has been costly for that generation.

As for the car, I'm torn. I don't like seeing nameplates resurrected only to be a shadow of what they were. GNs and GNXs were specialized Regals. Now, we have a Regal GS that is a pretty decent performer, as I understand it. Yes, 400 hp in the GNX would be impressive.

How does this platform size compare? The comments on the article are inundated with Cadillac...how big is it compared to the Regal and Lacrosse?

BTW, I have a 31 year old friend who loves his new Verano.

[avgwarhawk]

Two or four door is not the issue in my mind. It is the fact that a badge and larger engine is slapped on an existing car. Pontiac tried that with the new GTO. Failed. Why not design a new retro look for this GN? Ford,Chevy and Plymouth designed a retro look with modern flare. Mustang, Challenger and Camaro. These cars are very desirable. These cars are definite throw backs to the designs that got folks into the show rooms. Buick will miss the mark and opportunity with endeavour in my opinion. If Buick would really like to brake for the Corvette one more time, make a retro body design that is worthy of it. Quite frankly the nose on the Buick pictured looks like the new Chevy Impala. Missing the mark.

Edited August 8, 2013 by avgwarhawk (see edit history)

[JZRIV]

I've been resisting replying to this because my mom says if you can't say anything good don't say anything at all......Sorry mom.

Hard to believe this car made it on "25 cars worth waiting for list". I can think of a different list it could be on.

I don't think two or four doors is the issue at all. What a pathetic and anemic attempt by Government Motors to try and bring back the GN/GNX nameplate. They scored a grand slam with the Camaro, but this is downright embarrasing.....or could it just be that I am not amoung the group the car will be marketed to. Wonder what group that would be?

With the new Mustangs & Camaros etc offering 600hp street versions I have to wonder if the development team was old enough to remember the ferocity of the GNX vs the competition back in the day when they hit the street. The look of those cars alone was enough to frighten any contender not to mention performance. This new version has the mambi-pambi look.

Edited August 8, 2013 by JZRIV (see edit history)

[Pete Phillips]

Whoop-ti-doo! Another Buick four-door sedan. Ho-hum, yawn.

[Guest Rob McDonald]

JZRIV, this is your mother speaking. Go to your room. And young Peter, at least it's better than another Buick five-door truck.

[Guest my3buicks]

I've been resisting replying to this because my mom says if you can't say anything good don't say anything at all......Sorry mom.

Hard to believe this car made it on "25 cars worth waiting for list". I can think of a different list it could be on.

I don't think two or four doors is the issue at all. What a pathetic and anemic attempt by Government Motors to try and bring back the GN/GNX nameplate. They scored a grand slam with the Camaro, but this is downright embarrasing.....or could it just be that I am not amoung the group the car will be marketed to. Wonder what group that would be?

With the new Mustangs & Camaros etc offering 600hp street versions I have to wonder if the development team was old enough to remember the ferocity of the GNX vs the competition back in the day when they hit the street. The look of those cars alone was enough to frighten any contender not to mention performance. This new version has the mambi-pambi look.

Jason, I don't believe it will be marketed to the guys that love the 87 GN/GNX's - it appears to be taking dead aim at the luxury sport versions of BMW, Audi, Lexus, etc etc. They want the performance import buyers, that market is lucrative. It will nab some of those sales and it will grab a lot of sales from people that want the BMW, etc but can't quite afford one. Not a bad spot for Buick to be in.

[Guest my3buicks]

Even more sad is the majority of you have been crying for a rear wheel drive Buick for years, now that they are giving you one, you *****. If it were a 2 door you would think it should be bigger, or smaller, or ............ It's a major step !

[avgwarhawk]

Jason, I don't believe it will be marketed to the guys that love the 87 GN/GNX's - it appears to be taking dead aim at the luxury sport versions of BMW, Audi, Lexus, etc etc. They want the performance import buyers, that market is lucrative. It will nab some of those sales and it will grab a lot of sales from people that want the BMW, etc but can't quite afford one. Not a bad spot for Buick to be in.

Excellent point.

[lancemb]

Two or four door is not the issue in my mind. It is the fact that a badge and larger engine is slapped on an existing car. Pontiac tried that with the new GTO. Failed. Why not design a new retro look for this GN? Ford,Chevy and Plymouth designed a retro look with modern flare.

Let's not forget that this is exactly what the original GN and GNX were - rebadged Regals with better performance and done in black with fancy wheels. So in most ways, the new one will be staying very true to the original, IMO. No, it will not outperform Corvettes now as it did then, but that is only because Corvettes then were so anemic and the new ones are world-class supercars. The bar has been raised for performance, so it will never be worlds above other sporty cars in terms of performance, but that is not the fault of the car; it's just today's market. We should celebrate the fact that there are so many great-performing cars out there today. If it is a 2 door then great, if not then I get it. Fact is there is a limited market for those cars today compared with 30-40 years ago, and I think that GM does not want to cannibalize cars like the Camaro. I think a 400 HP RWD Buick will be a great addition.

[avgwarhawk]

I understand these were rebadged from standard models. I owned a 78 Regal. Yes, the T type got it's roots from here. I would love a new retro 78 Regal with modern day flare. Much the same as the Mustang, Challenger and Camaro received when made new with modern day flare. Even VW got it right with the new beetle. This is the point I was trying to convey. The new GN is a rebadged car of today. Shoehorn in a big motor. I would cut a check for a 3.8 turbo with DI that is a throw back to 1978-83 Regals.

But as pointed out earlier in the thread, Buick is looking to compete in the sport luxury market. I hope they succeed and Buick stays a viable car manufacture.

[60FlatTop]

Over at Lincoln a few years ago the history ignorant marketers slapped the name Zephyr on a Mazda 6. They got the message real quick about the history of that clunker. The next year it was the MKZ. Ooops!

Dragging out the names of really decent cars and rebadging does appeal to a certain demographic that has been around for a long time. Here's what comes to mind for me:

Yep a special breed of wannabe. Let's hope the new badge wearers have fog lights that stay on all the time, wouldn't want to miss one.

We are very lucky that Buick made some good cars before the decline. I'd buy another LT1 Roadmaster and the Lucerne is a nice car. I have a 49 year old Riviera and a 53 year old Electra. You won't see a Lucerne 50 years from now. Concepts change on a regular basis, people live in the details forever.

Bernie

[1939_Buick]

Off topic

BERNIE, how exciting, they're bringing back the Cavalier. Oh tepid joy.

< snip >

Funny thing about Australia, sporty 2-doors never really caught on. Nor did convertibles, which is bizarre considering the California-like climate of most of its cities. Chrysler Australia had a Valiant-based Charger for a while but I don't think it was matched by much competition from Holden or Ford of Australia. The home-market manufacturers - of which soon only Holden will remain - have always built sedans, station wagons (they call 'em estate cars), and their beloved Utes. Those are half-car, half-pickup, in the El Camino/Ranchero pattern.

In the 1960-70-80's GM had the Holden Monaro & Ford had a 2 door coupe (Aust Falcon based). Chrysler Australia's Valiant based Charger was a late catch up to GM - Ford. And the Leyland P76 coupe that sadly never went into production. The Monaro had the longest life, untill a few years ago. Was sold into the USA as a Ponti for few years.

Station Wagons are called Station Wagons in Aust. Estate cars is a UK. Only GM Holden now make wagons in Australia. Ford stopped wagon production 3~4? years ago.

Market size in Aust not big enough for a local developed convertible, based on the sedan - coupe platforms. We will not mention the hopless ill-fated 1980's Ford (Mecury) Capri desgned & made by Ford here in Melbourne, Australia. But in the mid 1930's GM still made tourers (4 doors & utes) for 2-3 years after the USA went to all metal.

The larger Commodore range is also made left hand drive and sold to the middle east (as Chev's)

http://www.holden.com.au/

http://www.holden.com.au/cars/commodore

http://www.holden.com.au/cars/caprice

http://www.holden.com.au/cars/ute

Edited August 13, 2013 by 1939_buick
more links (see edit history)

[Guest Rob McDonald]

ALLAN, thanks for jumping in with a bunch of corrections. I was relying too heavily on memory there. My Australian cousin called his Camry wagon an estate car, so I assumed the term was universal Over There.

The V8-powered rear drive Holden Monaro did have a short-lived presence here as a Pontiac GTO. It was a great car, no doubt faster that any of the original Goats, but it sold in minuscule numbers. Can't say when I last saw one. I'm sure GM noticed that this retro-badged, high performance 2-door package is clearly not what North American new car buyers want. They're unlikely to make that mistake again, no matter how much we Boomers would like to see a new Riviera.

GTO (now would be the time to buy one, bargain hunters) and Monaro

[Guest BJM]

Rob I worked for a multi franchise dealer that included Pontiac when these came out. The 1st 2 years of GTO they looked like Grand Prixs. Then they added some ques, such as a hood scoop, front air dam as your yellow car shows. These last 1-2 years were decent looking high performance cars.

[60FlatTop]

There was a website that was counting down the last 3,000 Holden GTO's in the US. I was watching it closely and came real close to buying one. Our local dealer brought a nicely optioned one down to $26,000 for me. I knew they were going for $23 and the difference would have paid the New York sales tax. I also got close on the 2008 Pontiac G8 GT, a Commodore 4 door (Quattrodore Commodore). Driving it felt like firing a rifle. I spent $7,000 under my Electra and bought a $9,000 Impala with half the money instead.

I knew about Commodores when I was in High School. I liked those miniature '39 Buick styled ones. Then in 1969 I got to visit Sidney while I was running big gray yachts for my Uncle.

I did a little bar hopping with a guy who had a 1961 Chrysler in Sidney. It was a 1954 Dodge body with canted headlights and a 318 engine; interesting car and good use of outdated dies.

A Holden Badged Holden is a car I would buy. I wouldn't need a named dragged up from the past by marketing. A 2.0 litre anything with a tacked on oversped hot running turbocharger that gets Xn HP at some ungodly RPM doesn't do it. Marketing needs to go back deeper into our roots. How about the new Buick Ox Cart or a Chevrolet Crapper Grand Touring Coupe. You can sit in the Chevy for hours, feel at ease, and refreshed at your destination. Now that's a marketing name for the working class guy.

I'm gettin' bad, better go to work.

Bernie

[avgwarhawk]

Between you me and the lamp post, the G8 by Pontiac was a car that could have put Pontiac back on the map. Alas, it was not to be.

[smithbrother]

Don't feel like the LONE RANGER, I tooooooo felt the G-8 was a great piece.

Win a few, lose a few.

Dale in Indy

[Guest Rob McDonald]

The 1st 2 years of GTO they looked like Grand Prixs

There's worse things than looking like a Pontiac. My wife's 2006 5-series BMW looks like a Grand Am and they still sold like hotcakes. Danged expensive hotcakes.

[Guest Skyking]

I think one of the biggest mistakes Buick made was getting rid of the Century. They sold tons and a lot of them are still on the road. They were good cars and proof to that is one still sitting in my garage. What were they thinking????

[smithbrother]

Skyking, I see you DON'T have your Century listed in your SIG?

I guess Buick wanted more FANCY names.

Dale in Indy

[60FlatTop]

I started taking an interest in cars with letters instead of names a few years ago and just went waaaay up the alphabet.

Bernie

[smithbrother]

In 1968 I bought a new GT-E. Very rare, I mean, RARE.

What was it?

Now worth 6-figures, IF I STILL HAD IT.

Dale in Indy

[smithbrother]

Deleted, dual posting of above.

[Guest Skyking]

Skyking, I see you DON'T have your Century listed in your SIG?

I guess Buick wanted more FANCY names.

Dale in Indy

Dale, I only listed my old cars............

As far as FANCY names,........People are only programmed to buy what they are familiar with. They should follow the Japanese.