GAS PRICES

[Guest WEB 38]

Yes But we had much few cars than, Buying gas and paying the tax. Bill

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

We are a funny people. Always complaining when prices on any thing rise, seldom applauding when they drop. Gas prices always have and always will cycle. As do prices on other things.

I like Willis's explanation.

I was born in 1937. Making me 16 in 1953. Obtained a driver license. Obtained a 13 year old car, a 1940 Buick. I then needed gas for the car. Surprise!! That meant a job. So off I went to the corner of 7th street and Joplin street in Joplin , MO. Pumping gas, changing oil, etc. For the princely sum of $0.60 per hour. At that time gas sold for around $0.23. Sometimes more , sometimes less. SOMETIMES as low as $0.16, as gas "wars" moved through. Then settle down to $0.23 to $0.25 per gallon.

Now at $0.23 per gallon and $0.60, per hour, I was able to buy 2.6 gal of gas for an hour of labor. At 12 mpg, if lucky, that would propel me down the road for the next 31.3 miles

Say today my granddaughter works at the corner convience store. She does not even have to get her hands dirty!! She gets, for sake of argument, the mentioned somewhere, $7.50 per hour. Yesterday gas was $3.57 here. That gets her 2.1 gallons of gas , a half gal less than I did. Her little car, and most cars today, including my Park Avenue, get 20 mpg or better. Therefore she [we] are able to go 42 miles down the road for an hours work. And I suspect, don't know for sure, few work at the min wage. BUT THE DIFFERENCE IS SHE CAN GO 33% FARTHER THAN I COULD FOR THE SAME LABOR,. Poor kid!! And she has power steering. And A/C!! I sure do feel sorry for her!!

Ben

Edited February 23, 2013 by First Born (see edit history)

[Guest Skyking]

We are a funny people. Always complaining when prices on any thing rise, seldom applauding when they drop. Gas prices always have and always will cycle. As do prices on other things.

I like Willis's explanation.

I was born in 1937. Making me 16 in 1953. Obtained a driver license. Obtained a 13 year old car, a 1940 Buick. I then needed gas for the car. Surprise!! That meant a job. So off I went to the corner of 7th street and Joplin street in Joplin , MO. Pumping gas, changing oil, etc. For the princely sum of $0.60 per hour. At that time gas sold for around $0.23. Sometimes more , sometimes less. SOMETIMES as low as $0.16, as gas "wars" moved through. Then settle down to $0.23 to $0.25 per gallon.

Now at $0.23 per gallon and $0.60, per hour, I was able to buy 2.6 gal of gas for an hour of labor. At 12 mpg, if lucky, that would propel me down the road for the next 31.3 miles

Say today my granddaughter works at the corner convience store. She does not even have to get her hands dirty!! She gets, for sake of argument, the mentioned somewhere, $7.50 per hour. Yesterday gas was $3.57 here. That gets her 2.1 gallons of gas , a half gal less than I did. Her little car, and most cars today, including my Park Avenue, get 20 mpg or better. Therefore she [we] are able to go 42 miles down the road for an hours work. And I suspect, don't know for sure, few work at the min wage. BUT THE DIFFERENCE IS SHE CAN GO 33% FARTHER THAN I COULD FOR THE SAME LABOR,. Poor kid!! And she has power steering. And A/C!! I sure do feel sorry for her!!

Ben

Great post Ben.............

[Guest Skyking]

NTX5467,

I have been viewing this thread with some trepidation. Some posts have had to be deleted. The discussion has been difficult to keep on "the straight and narrow". Understandably, people get emotional about this issue. It is difficult to keep political comments out of any discussion of gas prices.

I think you have managed to post an interesting thoughtful analysis which I enjoyed reading.

Matt, I've been on this site for 13 years and everytime a post is added about gas prices, a war breaks out. It's nature! Maybe in the future these posts should not be allowed??

[MCHinson]

Skyking,

There are a few subjects that are brought up from time to time that always seem to bring out comments that violate the forum rules. The moderators try to allow as much of these discussions to remain as possible. It would certainly be easier for the moderators to simply delete all of the discussions of those topics, but that is not what we try to do. As long as a topic is relevant to the hobby, the moderators do their best to try to facilitate a rational discussion of the topic.

I am sure that I speak for all of the moderators when I say that we don't like having to edit or delete posts. I would be much happier simply deleting the spammers and scammers.

[nickelroadster]

Some of the posts that were deleted were mine. I tried not to get emotional but it seems that my posts were exciting others. I don't have a problem with these posts being eliminated as the theme seemed to be moving into political areas that this site should not be about. Maybe we should move on to a less controversial subject. We should discuss global warming instead. (I am not always serious.)

[Guest]

In the automotive hobby and other hobbies as well, and our daily lives in general it is very hard not leave out the government and it's regulations, some of it's entities that are not controlled by congress in any way shape or form. It's all political. It doesn't matter if we are talking about paint, modifying a engine, emission regulations, whether or not the type of fuel that is imposed on our old cars is good for them or not, they all have political angle to it. To not talk about the national debt and how it will effect us and our lives, let alone our little hobby is impossible unless we just want to talk about how nice and green the grass was at the last meet. If a certain group is pushing for a regulation on our cars I think it's important to expose that group to everyone and our supporters in the hobby. If those regulations are always coming from a certain group it would be turning a blind eye to the truth. The other side of the coin would be for us to become political so that our needs are voiced.

Someone mentioned something about oil companies exporting refined fuel-a finished product. I said would you rather export the whole refining process including the jobs? Think about this, Buick or GM builds cars in China. If you prescribe to the same feelings, then GM is just as much at fault if not more than the oil companies, they actually build the finished product there and employ Chinese. At least other global car companies build their cars here.

I certainly see that personal attacks or foul language shouldn't be tolerated, but the political influence is to great to ignore in the many facets of our lives including our cars.

If you skirt those issues your really not talking about the real issues that concern us in the hobby and or our lives.

Edited February 24, 2013 by helfen (see edit history)

[Dandy Dave]

Some of the posts that were deleted were mine. I tried not to get emotional but it seems that my posts were exciting others. I don't have a problem with these posts being eliminated as the theme seemed to be moving into political areas that this site should not be about. Maybe we should move on to a less controversial subject. We should discuss global warming instead. (I am not always serious.)

Now that's a lot of Hot Air. Petroleum fueled engines push it out all the time if there is not a rats nest in the tail pipe.

Paid $3.97/9 per US Gallon Here yesterday for regular 10% gasahol garbage. Dandy Dave!

Edited February 24, 2013 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

[Guest]

Now that's a lot of Hot Air. Petroleum fueled engines push it out all the time if there is not a rats nest in the tail pipe.

Paid $3.97/9 per US Gallon Here yesterday for regular 10% gasahol garbage. Dandy Dave!

You are a lucky guy. I paid $4.35 yesterday for mid grade, and that was not Chevron which is at least ten to fifteen cents higher.

[Bleach]

We are a funny people. Always complaining when prices on any thing rise, seldom applauding when they drop. Gas prices always have and always will cycle. As do prices on other things.

I like Willis's explanation.

I was born in 1937. Making me 16 in 1953. Obtained a driver license. Obtained a 13 year old car, a 1940 Buick. I then needed gas for the car. Surprise!! That meant a job. So off I went to the corner of 7th street and Joplin street in Joplin , MO. Pumping gas, changing oil, etc. For the princely sum of $0.60 per hour. At that time gas sold for around $0.23. Sometimes more , sometimes less. SOMETIMES as low as $0.16, as gas "wars" moved through. Then settle down to $0.23 to $0.25 per gallon.

Now at $0.23 per gallon and $0.60, per hour, I was able to buy 2.6 gal of gas for an hour of labor. At 12 mpg, if lucky, that would propel me down the road for the next 31.3 miles

Say today my granddaughter works at the corner convience store. She does not even have to get her hands dirty!! She gets, for sake of argument, the mentioned somewhere, $7.50 per hour. Yesterday gas was $3.57 here. That gets her 2.1 gallons of gas , a half gal less than I did. Her little car, and most cars today, including my Park Avenue, get 20 mpg or better. Therefore she [we] are able to go 42 miles down the road for an hours work. And I suspect, don't know for sure, few work at the min wage. BUT THE DIFFERENCE IS SHE CAN GO 33% FARTHER THAN I COULD FOR THE SAME LABOR,. Poor kid!! And she has power steering. And A/C!! I sure do feel sorry for her!!

Ben

There's another thing to needs to be taken into consideration. A lot of times people need to drive further for those jobs. People are often living further away from the urban centers and are burning more fuel and wasting time sitting in traffic.

[nickelroadster]

It is unfortunate if you live a long way from your job. That is just one more reason to try and live as close to work as possible. The shear amount of time and money some people spend in getting to and from work should make people rethink the economics of commuting and how much money you need to work for.

[Guest]

There's another thing to needs to be taken into consideration. A lot of times people need to drive further for those jobs. People are often living further away from the urban centers and are burning more fuel and wasting time sitting in traffic.

Why do we need to take that into consideration? It's not my problem someone want's to live far away. I'm sure they considered it. If they didn't life will have taught them a lesson.

We are well into a society where some people want their diaper changed by their fellow citizens after a bad decision, and moving away from a society where you are responsible for your own actions.

[Bleach]

Try as you might but usually most people are stuck living far away because they can't afford to live closer to their jobs or the area near work is unsafe or undesirable to live by.

It's rare to be able to find a better job, or even a job at all for that matter, anymore.

[kevin1221]

Good thing I read this entire thread before posting.

In respect to Mr. Hinson (and forum rules), I won't post my comment on driving 72 miles each way to work, six day a week!

Kevin

[jdome]

Good thing I read this entire thread before posting.

In respect to Mr. Hinson (and forum rules), I won't post my comment on driving 72 miles each way to work, six day a week!

I run a small fleet of service trucks. $100 fill-ups every 4 or 5 work days per truck.

[Bleach]

Why do we need to take that into consideration? It's not my problem someone want's to live far away. I'm sure they considered it. If they didn't life will have taught them a lesson.

We are well into a society where some people want their diaper changed by their fellow citizens after a bad decision, and moving away from a society where you are responsible for your own actions.

No one said it was YOUR problem. I wish I could live closer to where I work but I can't for one reason or another. I don't hold society, at least not all of it, to blame for this at all. I blame (I can't name who or what) but I won't because my reply will get deleted by Matt or someone else in charge.

[nickelroadster]

Everyone wants to blame someone else. anyone who has been taken by surprise by gas prices hasn't been paying much attention to whats going on. Any thinking person really should be prepared for a whole lot higher prices than we have now. It is not all that impossible that gas prices might reach ten dollars a gallon in the next five years. All it takes for that is for things to line up that way and we rreally should not be surprised if it happens. Off course it is also possible to drop a dollar or so a gallon. Prudent people should be prepared for all possibilities rather than be caught by surprise and then suddenly wanting to blame someone else. Complaining never solved problems such as this.

[jdome]

If you want to avoid paying Big Oil's prices, go buy an electric car.........except BP owns 14 wind farms across the country that are in service or under construction. You might want to check their daily poster kilowatt price before you charge up.

[Guest]

If you want to avoid paying Big Oil's prices, go buy an electric car.........except BP owns 14 wind farms across the country that are in service or under construction. You might want to check their daily poster kilowatt price before you charge up.

You must have missed my thread that said because of my states cap and trade legislation which is being implemented as we speak will triple natural gas and electricity prices. Look for the rest of the country to follow suit. Then there is the new tax being drawn up on EV's because electric vehicles don't pay for road maintenance in the gas tax.

[Dandy Dave]

Everyone wants to blame someone else. anyone who has been taken by surprise by gas prices hasn't been paying much attention to whats going on. Any thinking person really should be prepared for a whole lot higher prices than we have now. It is not all that impossible that gas prices might reach ten dollars a gallon in the next five years. All it takes for that is for things to line up that way and we rreally should not be surprised if it happens. Off course it is also possible to drop a dollar or so a gallon. Prudent people should be prepared for all possibilities rather than be caught by surprise and then suddenly wanting to blame someone else. Complaining never solved problems such as this.

Self employed guys like me will just have to adjust our hourly rate, or delivery rate for some businesses, to the prices levied upon us. I guess I will start now raising my rates $10 per hour for every dollar that gas rises above 4.00 per gallon to keep up with the rate of inflation and other expences that go along with it. Go ahead Big Oil and beat us up for more. Expect to pay more for repairs of whatever it is that you need fixed. The one to suffer most will be the little guy working for minumum wage. Many businesses now charge a, "Fuel Surge charge" for service that requiers time on the road. Dandy Dave!

Edited February 25, 2013 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

[Guest]

Everyone wants to blame someone else. anyone who has been taken by surprise by gas prices hasn't been paying much attention to whats going on. Any thinking person really should be prepared for a whole lot higher prices than we have now. It is not all that impossible that gas prices might reach ten dollars a gallon in the next five years. All it takes for that is for things to line up that way and we rreally should not be surprised if it happens. Off course it is also possible to drop a dollar or so a gallon. Prudent people should be prepared for all possibilities rather than be caught by surprise and then suddenly wanting to blame someone else. Complaining never solved problems such as this.

Now here is a guy that understands things are coming our way. To be prepared will be the hard part because inflation will be something like something you've never seen. What happens to the dollar holds the key to everything we've talked about. Keep borrowing and spending is the key to having to pay a grand for a loaf of bread. Course maybe that's some peoples idea of paying down the national debt. If it's worthless it will be much easier to pay it off. Great news for all of us that have saved all our lives for retirement isn't it.

[Pomeroy41144]

All the plastic that goes into the bottled water uses up a lot of petroleum as does the fuel needed to transport all of this bottled water. The demand for this petroleum leaves less for gasoline. The increased demand for petroleum drives up the price. People complain about $ 4 gal gasoline but have no problem paying $1.25 for a 16 oz bottle of water ($10 a gallon). And for what? I am in the fresh water business. Most of the water Nestle, Pepsi, Coke or who ever uses comes from Municipal sources (just like the water from the kitchen tap). Yet people buy bottled water to avoid municipal sources of water even though that is exactly where most bottled water comes from. Dumb.

There is only so much petroleum. The more petroleum we use to make plastic water bottles and the more we needlessly transport these bottles leaves less petroleum for gasoline production, increasing demand and increasing the price.

And 25 cent gas in 1959 adjusted for inflation is roughly $3 a gallon.

[jdome]

And 25 cent gas in 1959 adjusted for inflation is roughly $3 a gallon.

In 59 the price was 40 c., adjusted to $2.40. But the adjusted price for inflation has been abused too often. You can't just pick 1 point off a chart and say ah ha.

The actual price of gas remained fairly flat at about 35 cents for 50 years from 1918 to 1974. That means that as everything else went up, gas effectly went down. Looking at a graph for the adjusted price 0f $3.75 in 1918 the adjusted price has a long, definate downward trend to $1.90 in 1974. It shows a rapid spike to $3.40 (adjusted) during late 70's/early 80's (during the embargo/shortage years) but by 1995 it drops back to $1.90 and continues it's downward trend at about the same rate as the previous trend. The downward trend of the adjusted price bottomed out at $1.44 in 1999. It then peaks rapidly to where we are now. Historically, gas has had an 80 year downward trend in its price, adjusted for inflation. If that trend had continued thru the 2000's, gas would be selling for about $1.10 today. Today's price is 3.5 times its historic value. It is also higher today than the 1980 era spike (adjusted) caused by a real crisis, shortages, embargo etc. Both AAA & Bloomburg claim that 2012 was the highest average price year on record and 2011 was the highest before that.

If you feel that gas has increased faster than inflation in the past decade it st because it has. If you feal if is taking more money and more value out of your budget, it is.

[Guest billybird]

If someone invented a car that ran on garbage; then garbage would be 10.00 a bushel. We don't like it but they got us any way we go. I am working to be pretty much debt free as fast as I can, because it looks like someday we won't be able to afford any "extras". It will take all we have to just live. I'm speaking of the average working man of course.

[Guest danajohnson]

Necessity is the mother of invention.

We added a natural gas conversion on our Dodge crew cab with a Hemi. Runs great and gets 17 mpg and a little loss of power but not bad. We pay $1.49 a gallon. We did an emissions and they said it's the cleanest thing they've had come thru.

[jdome]

If someone invented a car that ran on garbage; then garbage would be 10.00 a bushel. We don't like it but they got us any way we go.

There is a lot of truth to that. If you look at the price history of the wholesale prices of gasoline and ethanol they are always about the same price. Ethanol is usually about 25 cents below and shadows the price swings of gas. Ethanol was supposed to be a "home grown" product that would stabilize fuel costs but it's price is minipulated by the same forces.

[Rusty_OToole]

Every ounce of gold that has ever been mined is somewhere on earth. Every barrel of oil that has ever been pumped, is burned up and gone.

As oil gets scarcer it gets harder to get. You have to go to more remote sites, drill deeper, drill underwater, extract it from tar sands, oil shale. The easy shallow wells are pretty well pumped dry.

They say there is more oil in Canada's tar sands than in Saudi Arabia. But it costs $100 a barrel or more, to get it out.

Oil and gas may go up and down, it may get cheaper temporarily but the long term trend is rising. They say the world's production of oil peaked in 2005, from here it goes flat or goes down.

Notice, every time the price of gas and oil goes up, the economy takes a hit. Every time the economy crashes, the demand for oil goes down and so does the price. But as soon as the economy starts to recover, and we burn more oil, the price goes up and down we go again.

We were warned this was coming in the seventies. Then we got a temporary breather thanks to new oil discoveries in Alaska, the North Sea, Gulf of Mexico and Western Canada. So everyone ran out and bought 10 cylinder SUVs, HUMMERS and 4000 sq ft McMansions.

Now those sources are running dry and we are fracking and going for the natural gas. But those wells typically only last a year or 2 before they run dry.

That flapping sound you hear is buzzards coming home to roost. Better get used to it.

Edited February 26, 2013 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[jdome]

Necessity is the mother of invention.

We added a natural gas conversion on our Dodge crew cab with a Hemi. Runs great and gets 17 mpg and a little loss of power but not bad. We pay $1.49 a gallon. We did an emissions and they said it's the cleanest thing they've had come thru.

My nephew stopped by to show his buddy my old cars and they were driving his buddies french fryer truck. He makes his own fuel and I was impressed that this 25 year old kid who said he almost didn't make it through high school had all the science figured out.

[Guest]

My nephew stopped by to show his buddy my old cars and they were driving his buddies french fryer truck. He makes his own fuel and I was impressed that this 25 year old kid who said he almost didn't make it through high school had all the science figured out.

Interesting also was the fact that the Germans were making synthetic oil and making fuel from it...In WW2

[Dave@Moon]

The actual price of gas remained fairly flat at about 35 cents for 50 years from 1918 to 1974. That means that as everything else went up, gas effectly went down. Looking at a graph for the adjusted price 0f $3.75 in 1918 the adjusted price has a long, definate downward trend to $1.90 in 1974. It shows a rapid spike to $3.40 (adjusted) during late 70's/early 80's (during the embargo/shortage years) but by 1995 it drops back to $1.90 and continues it's downward trend at about the same rate as the previous trend. The downward trend of the adjusted price bottomed out at $1.44 in 1999. It then peaks rapidly to where we are now. Historically, gas has had an 80 year downward trend in its price, adjusted for inflation. If that trend had continued thru the 2000's, gas would be selling for about $1.10 today. Today's price is 3.5 times its historic value. It is also higher today than the 1980 era spike (adjusted) caused by a real crisis, shortages, embargo etc. Both AAA & Bloomburg claim that 2012 was the highest average price year on record and 2011 was the highest before that.

If you feel that gas has increased faster than inflation in the past decade it st because it has. If you feal if is taking more money and more value out of your budget, it is.

Sorry to post so late, but I was away for the last week.

What is rarely understood about gas prices is that jdome's statement about declining gas prices is applicable until MUCH more recently than the 1970s. The cheapest gas in history in the U.S. occurred about when this forum was created, about 14 years ago. (See red line in graph below, which I've linked in this forum several times.)

It was not without warning, even here (search this forum for the "Peak Oil" threads of 10-12 years ago). We were told life would change, and it is changing.

InflationData: Gasoline Inflation