Town car questions?

[The Continental]

When did they first come out?

What makes had them?

What were the last ones offered?

As far as tops, were they hard targas, soft tops, or did they slide back over the passenger seat?

What was the point of them?

Why did they stop getting made?

What town car concepts were there?

[john2dameron]

Town cars were numerous during the '20's and '30's with a few made in the prewar '40's and perhaps a few in the teens. I doubt you could pinpoint which makes offered them. I don't think the car manufacturers made them; they were mostly (or maybe only) made by custom body builders. Because they were built by custom body builders, they were usually on upper priced cars but I have photos of a 1929 Ford Model A town car and a 1933 Plymouth town car that was Mrs. Eleanor Roosevelt's car. Some of them had no roof over the front seat; some of them had a removeable cover over the front seat. I think the reasoning was that the owner needed to be protected but the chauffer could withstand the weather. I think the last one I have a photo of is a 1942 Packard bodied by Rollson. I am sure others will be commenting here also.

[keiser31]

I have seen photos of Ford T town cars, too.

[Restorer32]

Define "Town Car" please.

[Guest cben09]

Landeau,,,Laundelet,,,Town car,, Open Drive Town Car,,,Limosine,,Berline,,Suburban,,,Cab Side Limosine,,

Vestabule Suburban,,,All different,,,

If you need to ask the price,,,,,,you can't afford it,,,

Speak to the butler at breakfast,,,

Cheers,,Ben,,,,,,,please excuse any spelling errors,,,CB

[West Peterson]

Town cars were numerous during the '20's and '30's with a few made in the prewar '40's and perhaps a few in the teens. I doubt you could pinpoint which makes offered them. I don't think the car manufacturers made them; they were mostly (or maybe only) made by custom body builders. Because they were built by custom body builders, they were usually on upper priced cars but I have photos of a 1929 Ford Model A town car and a 1933 Plymouth town car that was Mrs. Eleanor Roosevelt's car. Some of them had no roof over the front seat; some of them had a removeable cover over the front seat. I think the reasoning was that the owner needed to be protected but the chauffer could withstand the weather. I think the last one I have a photo of is a 1942 Packard bodied by Rollson. I am sure others will be commenting here also.

My brother owned and had restored what is most possibly the last prewar town car ever produced... or at least the last factory cataloged town car. It was delivered toward the end of December 1941. He owned it for the better part of 30 years, but recently sold it. It was originally delivered to the Cory family in New York (coffee perculator fame).

Come on, Jeff. You know what a town car is.

Edited February 5, 2013 by West Peterson (see edit history)

[Restorer32]

Just playing Devil's advocate West. So a Town Car must have 4 doors and a removeable or sliding roof over the front seat? No 2 door Town Cars?

[West Peterson]

I would say that if you find a town car with two doors, it would be a rare bird indeed. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, it probably does, just not common.

[West Peterson]

When did they first come out? About 110 years ago

What makes had them? All high-end companies. Lesser makes were usually ordered specifically by customer and were one-offs (except for the Model A)

What were the last ones offered? Durham continued to build custom cars after the war, but the last one I can think of would have been a Lincoln Continental in the mid-1960s (may have been a concept car, tho)

As far as tops, were they hard targas, soft tops, or did they slide back over the passenger seat? Yes

What was the point of them? I'm not sure I've ever found the definitive answer for that

Why did they stop getting made? Upper-crust, high-society changed completely during the 1930s. Demand for them waned almost entirely by the end of that decade.

What town car concepts were there? As mentioned above, the Lincoln Continental of the mid-1960s. Not quite sure what you're asking here, tho.

Edited February 5, 2013 by West Peterson (see edit history)

[Guest cben09]

Open or closed bodies prior to 1911usually did not have front doors

MOST of these closed bodies existed in ancient horse drawn times

This includer the rarest of rare,,,,the Roof Top break,,,Panhard-Levassor,,,around 1907

Cheers,,Ben

[keiser31]

I believe that the town cars evolved from the Hansom cab days where the driver was exposed to the weather and the riders were insulated from it.

[West Peterson]

That's quite possible. The question remains, though, as to the purpose of an exposed driver in a day in age when roofs were the norm (into the 1940s). Was it purely for style? (which would certainly be believable).

[keiser31]

That's quite possible. The question remains, though, as to the purpose of an exposed driver in a day in age when roofs were the norm (into the 1940s). Was it purely for style? (which would certainly be believable).

Maybe a status symbol at that point.

[Guest cben09]

Purely a separation of class thing,,, And so goes our culture,,Ben :cool:

[Guest bkazmer]

Just playing Devil's advocate West. So a Town Car must have 4 doors and a removeable or sliding roof over the front seat? No 2 door Town Cars?

2 door town car possible if there are only back doors (I think there are some very early versions). A three position cabriolet is not a town car.

Didn't GM do a couple prototypes in the 50's?

I think it is rooted in a class distinction - I can't imagine many northern chauffeurs advising one to the boss.

[keiser31]

Just playing Devil's advocate West. So a Town Car must have 4 doors and a removeable or sliding roof over the front seat? No 2 door Town Cars?

There were mant two door town cars made. Here is an early example of one in a 1905 Renault....

[West Peterson]

I don't think anyone was trying to imply that a three-position drophead would be considered a town car. But there have been several two-door cars from the '50s and '60s that may be considered town cars, and I can even think of a few post WWI and Pre-WWII cars that may fit into that category, where the back doesn't go down, but the top over the front compartments comes off. Perhaps they were given cute names other than town cars, but a tail by any other name is still a tail.

[edinmass]

Today I was looking at two town cars, both had only two doors. I had never even knew they made them. Interestingly, they were both Ford Model A's. The correct body style name is Town Car Delivery. About 140 made, three are still around. I'll try to post a photo. Ed

[keiser31]

Now THAT is an interesting vehicle!!

[Dave Mellor NJ]

There's a guy,from Connecticut,I think who collects only super rare Model A's including 2 town car deliveries a service truck and a town car and maybe a few more. He brought his restored delivery to Gene Renninger's April show in Bird-In-Hand,Pa near Lancaster last year and I got a good look at it. It was fabulous. It's way different from an ordinary sedan delivery. Hopefully he'll be back this year.

[Restorer32]

I was thinking of a '49 Bentley James Young Sedanca Coupe. 2 doors with a sliding roof and was originally purchased to be chauffeur driven. "Town Car" is a slippery term though most of us know one when we see it.

[Restorer32]

Gene Renninger, now there's a name that should be in the Antique Car Hall of Fame. One of the original Hershey flea market vendors I believe. Now long gone of course.

[Barry Wolk]

That's quite possible. The question remains, though, as to the purpose of an exposed driver in a day in age when roofs were the norm (into the 1940s). Was it purely for style? (which would certainly be believable).

It was just a throwback to the days when the "driver" was also in charge of the stables. Frankly, the drivers, part of the great American unwashed, stunk, and needed to be separated from the gentry.

[Dave Mellor NJ]

I think this thread is still active but in December it mentioned the Pontiac Parisienne and a 41 Packard.,both of which were of the "De Ville or towncar style

http://forums.aaca.org/f169/random-pictures-really-cool-cars-341331-4.html#post1110518

Edited February 7, 2013 by Dave Mellor NJ (see edit history)

[Richard Lichtfel]

Many of the manufacturers had different names for them. Peerless had the 60 hp Pullman Limousine in 1904 that sold for $11,000. This is what most people would call a town car but Peerless never used that name They had the limousine and landoulet. The landoulet was the same as the limousine except the top over the passengers could open. The Peerless limousine was always designed with the owners compartment separate from the driver The 7 passenger surburban sedan and 7 passenger sedan didn't separate the drivers compartment. RHL

[Dave Mellor NJ]

More of a Sedanca De Ville, I guess, than a town car but certainly a fabulous car. It was posted by ehdubya on HAMB's" vintage shots from days gone by",tagged "Mrs La Follette at Mt Lake Park,Md 9-29-24

[Dave Mellor NJ]

Mlle Antoinette Daeschner. Again by ehdubya

[Dave Mellor NJ]

Park Central Motora Co, NY City, Lincoln. By ehdubya.

[Richard Lichtfel]

The Lincoln is a Cape Top Phaeton and not a Town Car.

[edinmass]

Try this link for a town car that is a two door also. Anyone ID the chassis? Ed

UNI | The Old Motor

[Rusty_OToole]

Early taxicabs and trucks had open driver's compartments too. There were 2 reasons for this. One was, there were no heaters or defrosters or even windshield wipers on the earliest cars, so an open driver's compartment was necessary for visibility in bad weather. Plus, it was considered unhealthy to go from a closed cab, out into the open air, and back again. This was considered a certain way to catch a cold or the flu, if the driver hopped in and out a dozen times a day, which he would do in a delivery truck or taxi.

Much healthier to have the driver's compartment in the open air, and dress up real warm in a cap and overcoat and lined leather gauntlets.

The earliest cars were open touring type, adding a closed passenger compartment was rather swanky and impractical for the rough roads of the time, but OK in town where streets were paved and speeds slow.

Eventually better bodies, heaters, defrosters, etc made this design obsolete. But London taxicabs kept the open driver's compartment into the fifties.

----------------- notice the specimens above, from the twenties, have no windshield wipers but the windshield opens out for visibility in snow or rain. No side windows either. The driver was working and had to see all around.

Also notice the chauffeur's uniform of heavy wool buttoned up to the neck with the military style peaked cap. And this was what they wore on a sunny day. Necessary for protection from the wind and weather while driving. In bad weather a raincoat or overcoat would be added, possibly even a fur coat in winter.

Edited February 18, 2013 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[keiser31]

Try this link for a town car that is a two door also. Anyone ID the chassis? Ed

UNI | The Old Motor

Looks to be a Sayers and Scovill.

[West Peterson]

Sayers and Scovill doesn't identify the chassis. My first thought was 1929 Graham Paige, but ???? the wheels and hub caps (and windshield) look more like 1930 Cadillac.

Edited February 17, 2013 by West Peterson (see edit history)

[bhambulldog]

Landeau,,,Laundelet,,,Town car,, Open Drive Town Car,,,Limosine,,Berline,,Suburban,,,Cab Side Limosine,,

Vestabule Suburban,,,All different,,,

If you need to ask the price,,,,,,you can't afford it,,,

Speak to the butler at breakfast,,,

Cheers,,Ben,,,,,,,please excuse any spelling errors,,,CB

I never understood that saying.

So, if one can afford the car, it is okay to pay too much??

Is that what it means?

Edited February 17, 2013 by bhambulldog
clarity, punctuation (see edit history)

[West Peterson]

Sort of. It means that you can afford to pay too much without worrying about it.

[keiser31]

Sayers and Scovill doesn't identify the chassis. My first thought was 1929 Graham Paige, but ???? the wheels and hub caps (and windshield) look more like 1930 Cadillac.

Ooops....yes. You are right. I think the hubcaps have an "M" on them.

[Terry Bond]

Town car refers to a chauffeur driven vehicle used to transport people into or around town. The style is a carry-over from the horse and buggy days. Not only were they owned by the wealthy, many were used as taxi cabs in London, Paris, New York and other large cities. One of the first makers to offer that type of vehicle was Daimler. Here is a pic of their 1896 "taxi."

[Guest cben09]

Columbia also built a similar carraige,,,98-99 ish,,,,There was one at Greenfield Village meet

on Saturday before 911,,,It was just beautiful and a page out of the history book,,,Cheers,,Ben