Title help, British car, not supposed to be here

[Matt Harwood]

So we just acquired this amazing 1973 Morgan +8. It's amazing for a few reasons: original owner, 2241 original kilometers (not a misprint) and, the part that's causing us problems: 1973 Morgans were never imported into the US and this car technically shouldn't exist.

This gentleman bought it on his honeymoon in 1972, when he visited the Morgan factory. Since the cars were not permitted in the US, he had it boxed and shipped to his home somehow (no, it's not one of the propane conversions). It arrived with a bill of sale only, no title, and he promised to never drive it on public roads, but as soon as he was able, he acquired historical plates for it. Now that we're trying to sell it for him, the fact that it doesn't have a title is problematic. We're contacting the Morgan factory to see if they still have records and perhaps can supply an MSO or original invoice or bill of sale, but it'll be a few weeks yet.

Has anyone found a way to do this? I know Maine and Alabama will generate titles for cars, but both are asking for this particular car to be examined in person (since it shouldn't exist), and we're hoping not to have to ship it around the country. Any advice? This is an extraordinary survivor and probably quite a significant car for Morgan aficionados. Heck, the side curtains and top are still in their original paper wrappers!

Thanks in advance!

[TexRiv_63]

Matt,

As US car emissions and safety regulations increased so did demand for "gray market" cars like this one. There were and probably still are a number of companies that specialized in importing these cars and modifying them to meet US regs, allowing them to be legally sold and titled. Unfortunately what you describe above sounds more like smuggling the car in. Could be a big deal depending on what type of mods are required, good luck.

[Matt Harwood]

I don't know that it was smuggled, it came through customs and was inspected and he paid the taxes, but it wasn't US-legal and I think the big asterisk is that he promised not to drive it on public roads. Why Morgan didn't give him some kind of ownership document is puzzling, though. It's not so much that the car is illegal, its that it has no title and there's no precedent set for a 1973 Morgan, which isn't supposed to be here in the first place.

I'll keep you updated, since I can't be the only one facing this issue. Thanks.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Matt, really nice car. Do you have any other documentation - sales order, copies of cancelled checks, etc? I know you have only the client's say so but it sure seems unlikely to me that this car was allowed to be imported based on a promise not to drive it on public roads - if this was a one owner vehicle with such low miles, I would think the owner or prior owner would have meticulous paperwork on it and be able to provide more info?

Of course you don't want to limit your market but I wonder if this would just sail through registration in a BOS only state like CT? At least with the current registration and a BOS, I beleive you can export it.

I would imagine this will be a top dollar example as no Morgans seem cheap anymore, buyer will require papers - good luck on it.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Oh, forgot this which was one of the main reasons I responded to this, sorry - I once sold a car from CT to NY, NY is a title state, CT BOS only. Buyer was able to obtain a title with my affidavit along with BOS, is your client willing to provide that?

[Peter J.Heizmann]

Hi, Matt.

Carbs or Fuel Injected? My reason for asking is the early 1970's is when the U.S. imposed all the air pollution, ugly bumper overriders, etc. on imports. Possibly the gent bought the car without knowing or trying to circumvent the issue?

I have a 1972 Triumph TR-6 since new and it is considered an early TR-6. It retains tell tale signs of the gas guzzling early 1970's especially with the charcoal canister (the canister has 2 male intake points with no return hoses, 2 Stromberg S.U. carbs, no bumper overriders, etc.) I investigated this 35 + years ago and was told by many within the AACA and British clubs that I just missed the import hammer.) This was also the same time frame of which many acclaim to be the end of the U.S. muscle car production due to the oil imbargo .

Possibly the original buyer had it shipped to circumvent the early 1970's U.S. regulations?

A few minutes ago I checked the British Motor Industry Heritage (B.M.I.H.) and they tout not having build sheets for the Morgan however do have them for many others (MG, Triumph, etc.) I ordered one many years ago and it lists everything such as build date, dispatch to the States date, port received in the U.S., all equipment, tyres, color, etc.

You still may want to google the B.M.I.H. as they promote Morgan functions on their web site.

All of this may be a start point to back-track. Who knows...

Regards,

Peter.

[A. Ballard 35R]

Matt,

What did your client use to obtain historical plates?

As already mentoined, there are BOS only states such as CT and NH ,no title required after car is ten years old. Perhaps there is some way you can obtain proof of ownership papers that would allow states to register the vehicle. Any paperwork that proves ownership would be helpful. These days, I think that most states' DMVs could care less about what happened in 1973 and more about legal ownership today.

In some ways, I think you are are raising more unnecessay questions by going through hoops obtaining a title which could be looked at by some as being suspect.

[Matt Harwood]

Thanks for the excellent feedback everyone. I'll look into an affidavit and the no-title states. We have a buyer, but he's skittish without a title, for obvious reasons.

The car still has the original dual SU carburetors with the original adapters used to get the intake manifold onto the Buick V8. No emissions controls or electronics of any kind. My guess is that with left-hand-drive and a metric speedometer, it was probably destined for mainland Europe which, in 1973, had zero emissions laws (or pretty lax ones anyway). I mean the car is untouched--that might be original Malvern, England air in the tires. He's done the heater hoses, radiator hoses, and a set of spark plugs, and that's it.

Truthfully, the car and the story are legit, and I think the original owner (our client) just slipped through the cracks. He knew nothing about bringing a car into the country and apparently the Morgan was kind of a spur-of-the-moment purchase just because he was at the factory. He didn't take it home with him, it took 18 months to get it built, and they did drive it to the shipyard, loaded it on a boat, and delivered it to the US. It came through customs honestly and knowing this fellow, I doubt he did anything sneaky or pulled any strings--I think he just got lucky and the folks at customs were either not paying attention or didn't care, or simply took him at his word that it wasn't for use on the roads (a lot of cars came in on that "promise"). There was no deception involved, no cloak-and-dagger sneaking around, and if he'd had a problem with the importing of the car, he'd tell us about it. But the truth is, they unloaded the car, looked at it, called him, collected some nominal sum in taxes, and he drove it home.

He says that he had some kind of bill of sale from when he bought the car, and that's what he used to get historical plates, but also says that the DMV kept it for some reason. Whether that's the case I have no way of knowing, but he doesn't have it anymore. We're in contact with the factory hoping they'll have some original records, and we'll definitely pursue the other options. But I want to make it clear that this isn't a black market car that was smuggled in, not a cobbled-up car from overseas that was outfitted by a gray-market shop, it was just a guy who loved Morgans slipping through the cracks, and then not paying attention to paperwork for 40 years.

[Seldenguy]

Sounds like you client lost his paper work. Having been involved with many autos from many different states I find it highly unlikely any DMV would give you a set of historical plates without a piece of paper showing to whom the plates were issued. If only for the purpose of identification at a traffic check point or a MV infraction. Keep it simple as possible, you will be better off. Also it was not disclosed what state you are dealing with? --Bob

[Restorer32]

Too many coincidences for me. You I believe, your client not so much.

[Restorer32]

Is it possible your client does in fact have paperwork but is afraid to produce it thinking he may be charged with some bureaucratic infraction when he imported the car and face years of past MV taxes and fees?

[Guest Skyking]

Matt, RI is a no title state. All they ask for is a previous registration. When I went to register my last Metropolitan, purchased from CT, with no title, they asked if it was some sort of trailer .......I was out with plates in hands in no time.

Bob

[Amphicar BUYER]

I have used "Broadway title" several times with positive (legal) results. Get in touch with them and see what solutions they may have.

[Guest Xprefix28truck]

I get a chuckle as I read this thread... And believe me I am not picking on ANYONE as I reply. I think it's funny that the original owner meant no deception, and no "decpetion" was involved, as HE DROVE IT HOME. He "promissed" not to drive it on the roads, and that promise lasted long enough to get in and drive it home...lololololol

[Harold]

It's not unusual for the DMV to keep the paperwork you hand in when first registering/titling a vehicle. The documents they issue are the new proof of ownership. Compliance with safety/emissions regulations are another matter. I recall reading somewhere that US safety and possibly emissions regulations did not apply to a vehicle weighing under (I think) 1200 pounds. If this Morgan is a 3-wheeler (don't know much about them...I'm a Plymouth guy) it might be considered a motorcycle and motorcycle rules apply. Have you spoken to the DMV of the seller's home state for their input?

[CarlLaFong]

It's not unusual for the DMV to keep the paperwork you hand in when first registering/titling a vehicle. The documents they issue are the new proof of ownership. Compliance with safety/emissions regulations are another matter. I recall reading somewhere that US safety and possibly emissions regulations did not apply to a vehicle weighing under (I think) 1200 pounds. If this Morgan is a 3-wheeler (don't know much about them...I'm a Plymouth guy) it might be considered a motorcycle and motorcycle rules apply. Have you spoken to the DMV of the seller's home state for their input?

Morgan's last trike was built in 1952, at least until the new trike was brought out last year, I think

[Curti]

I went through this a year ago with a 34 Auburn that had no title. You will save your self time, anxiety and probably money by taking the car to Alabama ( Broadway Title ) and get it inspected. It cost me $700 + and 9 months trying to get the car titled with Get New Title in Maine. I paid the initial fee. Then they kept asking for more money I finally got a Florida title through them. Like John, I have always had good luck with Broadway Title. Years back buying a car sans title was no big deal. Now days the laws are REALLY tightening up.

[A. Ballard 35R]

I went through this a year ago with a 34 Auburn that had no title. You will save your self time, anxiety and probably money by taking the car to Alabama ( Broadway Title ) and get it inspected. It cost me $700 + and 9 months trying to get the car titled with Get New Title in Maine. I paid the initial fee. Then they kept asking for more money I finally got a Florida title through them. Like John, I have always had good luck with Broadway Title. Years back buying a car sans title was no big deal. Now days the laws are REALLY tightening up.

What did you have for proof of ownership?

[Curti]

Just a bill of sale from the previous owner. It had one of the cars in the Barny Pollard collection.