Peter Gariepy Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Folks,I've had enough.There is entirely to much illegitimate complaining going on in this forum. More specifically it's happening by the competitive vendors.From here on out... if you have a legitimate problem with a vendor then take it up with the better business bureau.If someone asks about the legitimacy of a vendor you are more than welcome to send a private message. However, I caution you: if you are passing on second hand information you are not helping. Only critique a vendor with which you have had first hand experience. ----ANYMORE BICKERING WILL BE DELT WITH QUICKLY AND WITH OUT NOTICE. NO MORE WARNINGS!Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Double M Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Who are you? Never heard of ya. Welcome to the AACA Reatta forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Gariepy Posted December 5, 2011 Author Share Posted December 5, 2011 Double M.I am the AACA webmaster and head moderator of ALL the AACA forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Peter is the gentleman who makes all of this possible. I always listen to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nittany Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Me too! Peter, thanks for all that you do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Double M Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 That is great. Congratulations. Maybe, you could reappear again sometime when some of us members are bickering with each other and issue a similar statement concerning civility amongst ourselves. Stop by and visit again sometime.FINAL REQUEST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 (edited) I am a little confused.Are you saying if I have a good experience with a vendor I can post that I had a good experience and conversely if I have a bad experience with a vendor???????I agree most of the complaints about certain vendors have been second hand but also several of them have been first hand direct dealing complaints about those vendors and those posts were deleted. Maybe those posts were deleted because the post turned ugly but then the ugly should have been deleted and the original complaint by the person directly involved should have stayed.Currently there is a person selling an item on Ebay and part of his selling pitch is a flat out lie. Can this lie be exposed on this forum or do we have to sit back and watch some unsuspecting person pay too much because they were not made aware of the lie?I thought that is what these forums were about, exchanging information for the good of the forum members but I also am fully in favor of not getting personal.Jim Edited December 7, 2011 by Jim (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Gariepy Posted December 7, 2011 Author Share Posted December 7, 2011 Jim,If i read your post correctly... yes, you may say good things about a vendor, but you may not say bad things. This is a liability issue and it is stated in the forum rules.You are more than welcome to share your first hand personal experience with whomever you choose, just not publicly in the forum.Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Double M Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 We cant say bad things about these precoious venders you seek to protect, but we can say bad things about each other. Take note where this guys priorities lie... not with the members or users of this forum but with the vendors.Makes me wonder which one of these vendors he is.This is the most ridiculous post I have ever seen on this of any other forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Gariepy Posted December 7, 2011 Author Share Posted December 7, 2011 We cant say bad things about these precoious venders you seek to protect, but we can say bad things about each other. Take note where this guys priorities lie... not with the members or users of this forum but with the vendors.Makes me wonder which one of these vendors he is.This is the most ridiculous post I have ever seen on this of any other forum.Double M,My loyalties are to keeping this forum ALIVE! I refuse to see this forum overrun with bickering, finger-pointing and false accusations. You are on thin ice. To accuse me of being a vendor or somehow bias to a vendor is WAY OUT OF LINE! I've run this forum FREE TO THE REATTA COMMUNITY FOR over 10 years! If you don't like how I run this forum then feel free to LEAVE!Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushwack Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Yelling is unprofessional. One loses credibility when your voice is raised.Double M voiced his opinion {he may have not taken his meds yet I believe within the guidelines of the forum } You were not accused of providing poor service as a vendor (which you are not). He just questioned your loyalties.For all.... if a forum member sees a newbie asking a question about vendor services, just send him a PM or place a generic post within a thread to contact you via e-mail (assuming the newbie isn't familiar with the PM process). I've informed many newbies of such via PM and have been thanked numerous times. ...just keep personal views in check and conduct yourself professionally. Regular contributors know who are honorable and who are 'questionable'. But as I stated in another thread, not sharing such information with newbies will help diminish interest in the Reatta and subsequently lessen traffic in this forum.One can abide by forum rules AND still conduct yourself as a responsible member of the Reatta community (and the human race). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kingsley Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 (edited) Peter - I fully understand the liability to which AACA could be subjected to. I do note that you refer to "illegitimate" and "fraudulent" claims in your post. None of my claims fall into that category. In addition to the Better Business Bureau, one other avenue to follow which will get results is to complain to Hemmings. Make sure your facts are correct and they will act on it. I was personally accused of wrong doing and proper redress was taken. The money that I had been accused of holding was returned by the offender after "having been sent twice to the wrong address".This information is intended to keep Reatta owners from being taken very unwillngly to the dry cleaners. My intention hopefully is not out of line with your efforts. Edited December 7, 2011 by Kingsley (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Gariepy Posted December 7, 2011 Author Share Posted December 7, 2011 Bushwack,Double M's questioning of my loyalties to this forum and accusations of vendor favoritism deserves a little yelling.I'm not going to let someone make false accusations without putting up a fight!Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Gariepy Posted December 7, 2011 Author Share Posted December 7, 2011 Kingsley,"I do note that you refer to "illegitimate" and "fraudulent" claims in your post. None of my claims fall into that category. "Regardless of the validity of a posters claims the AACA is taking the risk and assumes the liability. Therefore we get to set the rules on the use of this forum. Users agree to abide by the rules when they signup. For those that don't/won't abide by the rules I have no choice but to ban then.Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Peter,Thank you for your response and your reasoning. While I do believe we should be able to point out first hand problems with a vendor I understand the possible liability issues.Keep up the good work.Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Gariepy Posted December 7, 2011 Author Share Posted December 7, 2011 Jim,You can still "point out first hand problems with a vendor", you simply have to do it privately. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Double M Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Then fight your battle here and stop sending me your Drama Queen private messages. We can say all we want about each other, no matter how nasty, especially if you are an official of the AACA or the Buick Club, but we cant say anything negative about a vendor publically.Try and use that administrative yelling power of yours to figure out how that makes you sound. If you cant figure that out, then you have no business being involved with this or any other forum. At an early age, you should have been taught that you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.You have alot to learn about forums and earning respect, sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Gariepy Posted December 7, 2011 Author Share Posted December 7, 2011 Double M,The only private message I sent you is public above.Your assumption I somehow endorse, condone or tolerate people complaining about each other is also wrong. I don't read every post in this forum. However, if someone complains about a post I do act quickly. As to you preaching to me: you are the one making false and inflammatory accusations. (vinegar?)Simple solution for you Double M: If you don't like the way this forum is run then leave.Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 OK, I've got to get into this.I REALLY don't appreciate the attack on Peter, after all he's done for the forum.I REALLY don't appreciate that this attack is coming from the Reatta rank and file.Reatta's aren't even classified yet as antique automobiles, and the only reason that they are even allowed to be discussed on this antique automobile forum is due to a "package deal" getting the Buick forums tied to this site.So, if you particular Reatta owners are be peeved at your misconception of how this forum is handled, balance that with the fact that I'm peeved every time I punch in "new posts" and have to read question after question about electric windows and computer systems and all those non-antique related items.I'm glad you enjoy your cars, and I know not all Reatta owners are involved in this, but attacking a moderator of the AACA forum is, in my mind, TOTALLY unacceptable, particularly after you find out who he is................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue90 Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 I have to agree with David.Peter has done an outstanding job as moderator of this Forum and has helped me at times with a PM so as not to disturb other members. This is a FREE Forum for like-minded members to trade information.Rules are rules. Those of you who don't like the rules don't have to play the game; just don't ruin it for the rest of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCReatta Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 I have to agree with David.Peter has done an outstanding job as moderator of this Forum and has helped me at times with a PM so as not to disturb other members.This is a FREE Forum for like-minded members to trade information.Rules are rules. Those of you who don't like the rules don't have to play the game; just don't ruin it for the rest of us.Well put, Stanley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kingsley Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Peter - when you say "send a PM" are you saying send it to you or to the offender?I think every one will agree that continuous, bona fide factual improprieties should be aired - no one likes to be gored. Outside of Hemmings and, as you mention the Better Business Bureau, does anyone have any other ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2seater Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 I was going to stay out of this too, but I was dismayed by the tone of the retorts to Peter's message. Apparently there is a lack of understanding that we are guests here and what the moderators function is. A public admonishment seems the proper means to let everyone know without pointing fingers. I can't think of anything else to say without getting personal, but I do want to thank Peter for his past and present help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kingsley Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 (edited) Peter - my memory is too short. I have seen action taken by Forum Moderators in response to a posted complaint and it was handled extremely well and justice was served. I would suggest that one make sure facts are well documented and factual. Do not waste the Moderor's time and effort chaseing something on which you just have suspicions.That will take care of their number one priority but to prevent further inappropriate actions I would suggest you should follow up with the parties mentioned before. Edited December 8, 2011 by Kingsley (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Double M Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Yelling is unprofessional. One loses credibility when your voice is raised.Double M voiced his opinion {he may have not taken his meds yet I believe within the guidelines of the forum } You were not accused of providing poor service as a vendor (which you are not). He just questioned your loyalties.For all.... if a forum member sees a newbie asking a question about vendor services, just send him a PM or place a generic post within a thread to contact you via e-mail (assuming the newbie isn't familiar with the PM process). I've informed many newbies of such via PM and have been thanked numerous times. ...just keep personal views in check and conduct yourself professionally. Regular contributors know who are honorable and who are 'questionable'. But as I stated in another thread, not sharing such information with newbies will help diminish interest in the Reatta and subsequently lessen traffic in this forum.One can abide by forum rules AND still conduct yourself as a responsible member of the Reatta community (and the human race).Thanx Bushwack. Proof that resonable responces come from the members. Asking me to leave. Yeah, that is not reasonable or a show of leadership. Next, you will "solve" the problems you are having with vendors by banning me. Yeah that will work. However, I admit it would be unfair for me to point out a problems without suggesting a solution or two... First off stop with the semantics... Who is, what is a vendor? Do they have to regisister differently? If not, why not? I am a member of many forums. I also admin/moderate them as well. For a living, in fact I get paid for it. People that are selling things publically on a forum are usually specially registered as vendor or a sponsor and should only be allowed to post their sales publically in a special Buy/Sell Forum. Your precious rules also should be spelling out in a simple disclaimer that you have no liability as to the truthfullness of the ads or the vendors, as is very common practice on many sites, forums, newspapers and organizations. Saying you are liable for their actions because you allow them to post is pure nonsense. Wow, I wonder where we could find a Reatta Buy/Sell Forum?Secondly. Manners. It is beyond Rude to come here and tell us what to say and not to say about a particular subject, regardless of how you interpert your own rules or what your title says. We are Adults, could you please treat us like Adults? Your whole online posting demeanor is confrontational and holier than thou and we have way too much of that in this forum as it is. Third. Respect. You want respect, then perhaps you could try earning it. You come on to this claiming to be the leader of all, yet you know nothing about it. You say you dont read all the posts, but do you read any of them? Do you have any idea of the nastyness that goes on here? I have recieved Threatning letters, official nastyness from official members of the Buick Club, both publicly and private, and the latest attempts to rewrite the Brake history of The Reatta are just the short list. None of this ever warrants your leadership, it seems, but if someone complains about a vendor, here you come to save the day. What Drama. Am I coming thru out there? Because you are.Fourth. We have a great Moderator in Rawja. Why do I say that? He has earned his respect thru his actions and words, you are demanding it. You should work thru him and stay on your high horse, respectfully.While my posts may seem like an attack to the uninformed, the things I talk about are a matter of fact to those of us that actually participate in this forum. You should WELCOME my complaints as a warning signal to pay more attention to this, your most popular forum. That way you will be armed with the same facts as a I am. I am not on thin ice, I am standing on a strong foundation of Reality and I invite you over for a look see.You claim that you are trying to "keep this forum alive" is a shining example of how little you know about your own forum. It is the most popular and well attended of all the forums on your site and you think it's survival is in danger? Pure Drama is all that is and we dont need anymore, thank you very much. Please stop starting fires so you can put them out. That is not Leadership at all. Niether is banning members YOU dont agree with. As I said before , we are Adults and we would like to be treated as such.You original post is more inflamatory and insulting to us members than you seem to be able to understand or want to understand. It smacks of a guy that wants to protect the business practices of "Bad Vendors" on this forum and your claims of your liability are very very thin. Why? Because now you seek to protect a certain vaugely defined group of members by chastizing the rest of us. That is were the Honey/Vinegar analogy comes in. That rest of us, BTW is the Majority and you owe us, the majority, a major apoplgy. By saying we cannot post negatively about a negative experience with a "Vendor" good or bad, inadvertantly supports both those good and bad events. Who is going to point out the bad guys? You? No. You want to protect them and limit what we can say about them. Is that looking out for us or them? Hence my claim that you are benefiting from all this.If you are to be a leader, then do something to protect US, the members, if you are so worried, instead of yelling at us, the members, how about LEADING us to a better way, instead of chastizing us for trying to protect ourselves. It all comes down to this... you have put the Good AND the Bad vendors ahead of the members, so then why do you think it so outreagous to suggest you are one of them? It makes no sence for a leader to seek protection for those hurting your members and to limit what we can then say about it unless you are benefiting from it. You are supporting the wrong side, or you are just a far removed dictator that has no idea what is really going on.This is not an attack, but a LOUD & CLEAR call for change of attitude amongst these "leaders" that focuses on giving respect to the members first. I am a paying member of the AACA, not just some lurker or trouble maker. I have gotten much help here as well as some problems. You take the good with the bad, thats life, you will only fail if you try to mirror some utopian ideal. You have good helpfull members, a good moderator and we are very capable of governing ourselves, so I am sorry if my way of informing you is a little "over the top" but if you really care about us the members more than the vendors, you will "look over the top" and see these problems very clearly what I am talking about. IF you want to help, it would be WELCOMED, otherwise let us be. Please.Angelo / Double MPS... I did take my meds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mongeonman Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Guys,this is just a car forum,lets talk about cars,too many fights in this forum,this is to bad,old ladies do this........not car guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mongeonman Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 I forgot to say this:alot of antique cars have electric window and other elctric gadgets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Gariepy Posted December 7, 2011 Author Share Posted December 7, 2011 Double M,Frankly, it is an attack.If managing this forum (including the Reatta forums) for 12 years (with a generally totally hands-off approach) doesn't earn the respect of the users of this forum nothing will. (FYI: i am a volunteer webmaster: i.e. I don't get paid.)If my demands fall on deaf ears so be it. If my warnings are not heeded then those that get banned have no one to blame but themselves.As an AACA member I encourage you to escalate your issues with how poor this forum is moderated and managed to the AACA Directors and AACA President. Find their contact info here: http://www.aaca.org/about/officers/default.aspxRegards,Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Gariepy Posted December 7, 2011 Author Share Posted December 7, 2011 Mogeonman,"this is just a car forum,lets talk about cars"Thats exactly what I am trying to do. There is way to much bickering and I'm trying to put a stop to it so we can get back to talking about cars! Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 There is a place for everything on the Internet. Could responses to Peter's initial statement be moved there ? I would not like to see anyone banned but this is coming close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 I'm trying to stay out of this and don't want to add to all the controversy. I will limit my comments to saying that the ice is much thicker in this thread than I thought it would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stealthbob Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Don't like the rules or how the board is handled I suggest you grab your hat and walk out, keep walking until that hat starts to float. There will be plenty left behind here to enjoy things as they are, with a little less noise to boot.Your restraint Peter is admirable to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Gariepy Posted December 7, 2011 Author Share Posted December 7, 2011 Ronnie, about as think as my skull? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Ice is much thicker? Well, can't quite get my hands around that one.This is a forum of car lovers, we can all agree to that.The AACA is an entity, and that entity has certain legal obligations, this is not a free speech issue. To put it another way, you can make statements on this forum, but they can be deleted by a higher power.......for the sake of legality.Thus, negative comments about vendors, on the AACA forum, can be construed as AACA negative comments, thus, we enter into the legal issues. Slander, libel, you sort out which is verbal and which is written.Let's talk cars, I agree.But don't, ever, start bashing someone who is moderating this forum, for the good of all.It's like hitting a referee in an NFL game. You might feel good getting your feelings out with a good solid punch, but you're going to end up in the locker room.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Ice is much thicker? Well, can't quite get my hands around that one....Please re-read Peter's previous post to this thread, quoted below, and I think my comments will make more sense.Double M,My loyalties are to keeping this forum ALIVE! I refuse to see this forum overrun with bickering, finger-pointing and false accusations. You are on thin ice. To accuse me of being a vendor or somehow bias to a vendor is WAY OUT OF LINE! I've run this forum FREE TO THE REATTA COMMUNITY FOR over 10 years! If you don't like how I run this forum then feel free to LEAVE!Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 OK, I get it, as my son (16) says, mea culpa, I didn't have comprehensive understanding.As I've grown older (60 now and counting, not bragging, I just can't seem to do anything to stop it), I've grown less tolerant of people who walk on thin ice.I just saw an engineer turn down a great job, because he wanted a few more thousand a year. Thin ice.I recently saw a guy on the highway cut in front of a car, with inches to spare. Real thin ice.So, I get it, as they say, and to his credit and patience, Peter has some thick ice under the guy making the comments.Me, I'd have chopped a circle around him, and let him deal with the frigid dihydrogen monoxide, a few posts back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawja Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 (edited) Geez, I don't check the forum for a few hours and look what happens. :eek:Just as a point of clarification for those of you who are conspiratorially-minded: We are using the term "vendor" generically here as that is presently the issue at hand. There is no commercial or monetary relationship implied with these "vendors" and the AACA or the BCA.You can (and should) use the vendor term interchangeably with individual as there is no difference as far as the rules regarding bad-mouthing. Stating " "John Doe" is a crook" is the same-same as "XYZ chrome plating is a crooked operation".This isn't about protecting vendors, it's about protecting the AACA from lawsuits from those parties that are aggrieved by libelous statements made on the AACA's forum. Right or wrong, win or lose, defending the AACA from lawsuits costs significant money, not to mention what it would cost if there was a judgement levied.So remember what your moms all told you: "If you don't have anything nice to say..." Edited December 8, 2011 by Rawja (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 A snide and unjustified attack on a respected moderator of this forum is of no little importance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 It wasn't aimed at our moderator, but since it was confusing I asked a moderator to delete it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushwack Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 OK...while there is agreement/dis-agreent of what has been discussed on the subject, it is time to taker a breather and step back.Let me remind many of a quote a renown philosopher (and convicted felon) from a past generation:"Can we all (just) get along?"--Rodney King Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts