Thoughts on this 36 Roadmaster FS

[Guest BJM]

http://forums.aaca.org/f119/1936-buick-series-80-roadmaster-project-308959.html

I have been in communication with this seller. He ran a CL ad 3 months ago that I responded to and the price was $1000.00. I have paid $400.00 on it and am preparing to send the balance and noticed this ad which I believe was placed by a younger relative, not the 61 yr sold seller.

I have got my hands full with other stuff including a mother in law in hospice and the usual stuff. I would like this car because I have been looking for a Buick pre war project for quite awhile and this is a significant car and would make a good pre war division touring car when done.

I did not have the luxury of the 60 + photos and they raise some troubling issues but also give me some hope. No offense to Special owners, but if this was a Special in this shape, I would pass. But it's Harlow Curtice's pride and joy so I am just looking for comments from my Buick friends about whether this car should stay in eastern PA or find it's way to Iowa.

[billbuickgs]

When you send the trailor to pick up the 36, send it to Baltimore and load up the Reatta !

Bill

[Matt Harwood]

I have to admit that I looked at that ad as well. It's a very ambitious project, but one of the great driving cars of the '30s. I think your idea to make a touring vehicle out of it is excellent.

Pros:

Mechanically seems to be all there. He claims it runs, but I'd probably take it apart just to be sure. Assume that it'll need a full rebuild--my '41 ran and drove when I got it, but when I took it apart it was a MESS inside.

Body seems relatively straight, although I will bet this Sunday's turkey dinner that the trunk and front seat floors are gone. And he mentions bad wood--yikes!

Cons:

Rust. Lots of rust. The condition of the hood sides scares me because A) it's been sitting outside for years and years to erode it like that, or because it was on the car and that means the car is just as bad and it just doesn't show in photos. And see my comment above about missing floors and bad wood.

Interior. Obviously it can't be salvaged, but are the seats there? I don't know how interchangeable they are with other marques, but finding a set of springs might be problematic.

This car will need a full, frame-off restoration no matter how you slice it and what you intend to do with it. How much is it worth when it's done? A lot less than it'll cost to restore. But since I believe that you are like me, and enjoy the journey as much as the destination, I don't count that as a con. The process is what matters, right?

So I'd call this a car worthy of your attention, but this is a very big project to undertake that will take a lot of time and money that you won't ever get out of it. Are you ready for that kind of commitment? Or perhaps finding something that is complete, running and driving for, say, $12,000 that you can fix up a little at a time might be a better choice. There are plenty of Roadmaster sedans out there.

Good luck!

[Guest BJM]

I have to admit that I looked at that ad as well. It's a very ambitious project, but one of the great driving cars of the '30s. I think your idea to make a touring vehicle out of it is excellent.

Pros:

Mechanically seems to be all there. He claims it runs, but I'd probably take it apart just to be sure. Assume that it'll need a full rebuild--my '41 ran and drove when I got it, but when I took it apart it was a MESS inside.

Body seems relatively straight, although I will bet this Sunday's turkey dinner that the trunk and front seat floors are gone. And he mentions bad wood--yikes!

Cons:

Rust. Lots of rust. The condition of the hood sides scares me because A) it's been sitting outside for years and years to erode it like that, or because it was on the car and that means the car is just as bad and it just doesn't show in photos. And see my comment above about missing floors and bad wood.

Interior. Obviously it can't be salvaged, but are the seats there? I don't know how interchangeable they are with other marques, but finding a set of springs might be problematic.

The process is what matters, right?

So I'd call this a car worthy of your attention, but this is a very big project to undertake that will take a lot of time and money that you won't ever get out of it. Are you ready for that kind of commitment? Or perhaps finding something that is complete, running and driving for, say, $12,000 that you can fix up a little at a time might be a better choice. There are plenty of Roadmaster sedans out there.

Good luck!

Matt

I see this as a full body off restoration yes. The seats are missing and I am not 100% sure of interchangeability but would take whatever I could and redo them correctly.

I love all Buicks but do not gravitate toward the Pre War stuff. My wife and I coordinated the PWD After tour in 2010 and had so much fun and what a great group, that I have been seeking a Pre War Buick to restore and enjoy in this setting (touring).

I have been looking and coming close for 2 + years. Needle in a haystack, so when I spotted this one for $1000 I made a run for it.

Got close on some 1940 Century's in Mass, but Jon Henry said I should pass and I appreciated his inspection. Ditto on some others. (1938 90 series sedan in Oregon Brian chimed in on / 1930 large Buick sedan in Wyoming)

I have at least one car coming in, not a Buick, that will require a full restoration so not too worried about that aspect.

You are correct - the rust out on the hood side scares me too.

Here is the story - I talked to the seller. (I love stories as much as the cars) -->

The car was a one owner/family car and the father parked it in 1952. His 2 sons were always going to restore it. It was parked for 60 years under a lean to. They removed and lost the seats. Then they had to sell / move / get out of the real estate and Bear Auto and/or Allyn Griffith bought the car.

It seems like a good $1000 car. Serious 30's cars are becoming nearly impossible to find.

My pros: Restored this would serve our PWD needs splendidly with lots of room for gear and the family (me, wife and daughter). Would be able to cruise along at 50-60 mph. Reliable (obviously-still runs)

His only other offer 3 months ago was to part it out and although I am less and less a "steward" of the hobby trying to save every car (you can't) it mattered because this is a special 30's Buick. So saving it is a little important given it's condition and removal from the hobby for 60 plus years.

[MrEarl]

Cons:

But since I believe that you are like me, and enjoy the journey as much as the destination, I don't count that as a con. The process is what matters, right?

Good luck!

That would be one looong and hard journey. I'm gonna say forfeit the $400 and find you a 1954 Buick journey. You asked for thoughts, that's mine.

Edited August 5, 2011 by MrEarl (see edit history)

[Centurion]

As cool as a 1936 Roadmaster would be, I'd love to see you finish the Centurions and LeSabre T-Type before launching into yet another ambitious and costly restoration project.

It would be great to have at least one collectible Buick on the road and available for tours and shows. At some point, most of us find that time and money are finite, and it becomes necessary to focus our energy and resources into a very small number of cars. One of your Centurions would be a great place to start.

[50jetback]

That would be one looong and hard journey. I'm gonna say forfeit the $400 and find you a 1954 Buick journey. You asked for thoughts, that's mine.

Ah, Mr Earl, that 1954 " tunnel vision " - can't take a '54 on a Pre War tour!!

Bryan, I think Matt is right and at the end of the day passing on this one may save a lot of grief!

I keep an eye on 1936 sales and over the last 12 months there have been some very usable/restorable 1936 Century sedans come on the market at realistic prices ( from memory between $4000 and $10,000 depending on condition ), complete, rust free and drivable.

The Century is probably a better buy than a Roadmaster, particularly if you are looking for a car which was Harlow Curtice's " pride and joy ".

[Thriller]

My thought is that a thousand dollars in the old car game is a pittance. While there are better cars out there for less money, you don't get much for a grand. This is an ambitious project, particularly with missing bits. Ultimately, the decision is yours, but there are a few other things to consider. First, a family of three doesn't take much space. The trunk is big enough in our '41 Special that our family of five could carry luggage for a few days / nights and be comfortable, so you don't necessarily need a big series car. Another point to consider, coming from a fellow with four project cars, is that it is very easy to put off the work. In my case, I keep bringing home additional Buicks that get in the way of the projects, but unless you are very focused, the project could languish for years. All it takes is time and money, and with sufficient quantities of one, you don't need as much of the other. We've also discussed that you can buy more car in a restored state than buy purchasing a project and restoring. Look at it this way - if you spend $20-30k or more restoring this car, how much does the purchase price matter? On the other hand, there are driveable pre-war Buicks that could be had for $10k or less...they won't be perfect, but my '41 is an example (granted four years ago), but I paid about $7500 for it and did some brake work and a couple other odds and ends and had a driver. Since it isn't perfect, I am also much more comfortable driving it than if I'd just laid down a pretty penny on body / rust repair and a paint job.

For what it is worth, here is an example - 1940 Buick Super 4-dr Sedan, Used Cars For Sale - Carsforsale.com - 1940 meets your pre-war criteria, St. Louis is quite a bit closer to you than PA (if I have my geography correct), and the price is reasonable.

Of course, if your starting budget is lower, the expectation to get a running car has to be lower, but as soon as they don't run and move semi-regularly, some things deteriorate so quickly that you wind up doing a bunch more stuff than you hoped to.

I don't think I tried to talk you into or out of the 1936 (last year for wood), but I hope I gave some food for thought.

[Joe Cocuzza]

Okay. You sent him a $400.00 deposit.

Now you see the car advertised again for a higher price.

Did you call this guy and ask him WHY the car is being advertised after you sent a deposit????

I know that some of us like the "challenge" of bringing a car back from the brink and have the time and money to do so.

Aside from that - if you've got REALLY deep pockets ANYTHING can be restored. Especially if someone else is restoring the car for you. (Send it to the shop/tell them to restore it/ and pick it up when it is done). I am not insinuating that is what you are going to do - only making a statement...

Personally I wouldn't/couldn't see taking on such a project as my pockets are pretty shallow and my time is way too scarce.

Your choice, of course.

The advice from others about seeking out a car that is actually roadworthy but needing some work is at least worth considering. Buying this car and sinking $10K - $20K into it MAY get you to the point of it being roadworthy yet still needing a ton of work. $10K - $20K does not get you much in restoration materials/labor costs these days.

But buying something for a higher initial cost and then putting $10K into it will bring you to a much further point into the restoration process - it may also be all you would need to invest to have a really nice car.

Just my opinion

Joe

[60FlatTop]

Last fall I was looking at another project car. I had an interesting thought, though. My "nice" cars were becoming project cars due to deferred maintenance and lack of detailing.

I pulled the plug on purchasing projects and focused on my 1960 Electra. I detailed the underneath and serviced a squeak in the drive shaft. We found that squeak has the potential for a catastrophic failure! New tires, shocks, brakes hos, re-undercoated, and looking just fine. I picked up a nice trophy at the Gathering of Buicks in Buffalo last week. I spent about $3500.

This winter my '64 Riviera gets an overdue paint job and a new correct interior. I have owned the car for 33 years and done all the mechanicals. The paint was done in 1980; old lacquer. I figure $6000 or so for that one.

I am going to be pretty happy next summer and I just added a mint '94 Impala SS.

Since I am 62 I am quite sure the '53 Jag and the '86 Park Ave convert will have new custodians soon.

There is a message in there about the '36 Roadmaster. Two nice cars can eat up ten grand for stuff that didn't get done. There are at least 300 $100 jobs on that Roadmaster.

Bernie

[buick5563]

As cool as a 1936 Roadmaster would be, I'd love to see you finish the Centurions and LeSabre T-Type before launching into yet another ambitious and costly restoration project.

This.

Stop searching Craigslist. Finish one Jake!

[Pete Phillips]

I took one very long look at the photos of that '36 Roadmaster before this thread came up, and dismissed it as a parts car for someone who is restoring one of these. There was a '36 Century 4-dr. sedan about ten miles away from me a couple of years ago, similar condition, ALL of the wood was very bad but the engine ran; grille was broken in several places, I think he wanted $1700 for the car and I would have had virtually no transportation expense, but I decided that one was too far gone to be anything but a parts car. I think I saw it on the local Craig's List last month for $1000, but I didn't even bother to call. Talk to BCA member Chris Breeze in West Virginia if you want to find out what it costs to replace all of the wood in one of these. Unless you are a carpenter with lots of free time, my advice is to avoid it. Just finding an unbroken grille for one of these cars can cost up to $1000 or more. If it was a super rare and valuable model like a '36 Century convertible, then the time and restoration expense are worth it. But as someone said above, there are other '36 4-dr. Buicks available with a lot more potential and for a lot less than it will cost to restore this one. That said, you could probably get your money back and then some, by parting this one out.

Pete Phillips, BCA #7338

[Guest BJM]

There are just so many good comments in here I can't address them all. I think it is important to have one of these discussions for everyone, now and then.

Mike and Brian, the 88 T Type was restored and sold to a fellow about 60 miles away from me. The previous owner was a fastidious lady who wrote down every expenses incl gas purchases for several years. I reconditioned the interior, replaced the dash pad, replaced the headliner and addressed mechanical issues before repainting it silver.

The 72 Centurion had to be sold for parts. I removed the driveshaft in preparation for the drivetrain removal. The next day I came out and the car had fell off the jackstands. A further investigation showed the frame was so rusted under the the right rear stand that it fell in and the whole car went that way.

I got it back up and inspected it and did not feel safe under it. It had been on jack stands for 5 months but maybe my jostling on the driveshaft caused it to collapse. I had it inspected by the local restoration shop and he recommended a reframe. A reframe of a low value 70's car was not practical.

The 73 is in the garage now.

Just some good comments. Like I said, if this was not a pre war Buick I would focus on the Centurion.

[Guest BJM]

I pulled the plug on purchasing projects and focused on my 1960 Electra. I detailed the underneath and serviced a squeak in the drive shaft. We found that squeak has the potential for a catastrophic failure! New tires, shocks, brakes hos, re-undercoated, and looking just fine. I picked up a nice trophy at the Gathering of Buicks in Buffalo last week. I spent about $3500.

This winter my '64 Riviera gets an overdue paint job and a new correct interior. I have owned the car for 33 years and done all the mechanicals. The paint was done in 1980; old lacquer. I figure $6000 or so for that one.

Since I am 62 I am quite sure the '53 Jag and the '86 Park Ave convert will have new custodians soon.

There is a message in there about the '36 Roadmaster. Two nice cars can eat up ten grand for stuff that didn't get done. There are at least 300 $100 jobs on that Roadmaster.

Bernie

Thanks Bernie. I've been thinking about your sage advice and real world hobby activities. 62 years old? Are you retired yet or still working?

I'm 47 and have owned some 100 + cars in the past 13 years. Why 13 years?

Because my wife and I have been married 13 years and when we married I owned a 64 Wildcat convertible, a pale yellow and saddle tan interior bucket seat car that, I would hope, would be restored now and enjoyed in all manner of the hobby from local cruise ins to BCA Nationals.

I also owned a 61 Electra 2 door hardtop (bubble top) which was my "piggy back car" to the 64 Wildcat convertible.

My 3rd car was a 66 Oldsmobile Toronado. All 3 of those cars are long gone. But would I have been happier if I still had those 3 - long since expensively restored and to be enjoyed.

I'm running out of time. It's 15 years until I am 62 but I don't want to be restoring when I am 62. I want to be smiling....

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

You guys are YOUNG. I was 71 when I started my first one. Finished shortly after turning 73. There will probably be others.:).

Ben

[60FlatTop]

Bryan,

It is good to get a reply. I work. I have a company that implements planned maintenance programs and we are in the process of applying for license to sell power off the grid to bundle wholesale purchasing power with the power of good maintenance. I tell people that I plan to work another 20 years and then play around the last ten.

Experience shows that I will probably be working those last ten, as well.

There is a book called The Treasury of the Automobile by Ralph Stein, copy 1961. It appeared new in our Brockport Public Library. In 1961 I saw the picture on page 228. It is a before and after shot of a Stutz Bearcat, a beautiful restoration. I spent from 1961 to 1983 trying to duplicate that effort. Hindsight shows me that I should have been figuring out how to get that restored car from the restorer! I have a copy of the book to remind me, but I still get stupid.

In 1983 I was in the Quad Cities area straddling the Mississippi River witnessing a boiler test in Keewanee. I was in a second rate used car lot around 9 PM looking at older cars under the lights. That night I realized that the cars I really liked were well maintained cars about ten years old. It was not the 100 point show car that rang the bell for me, but just that good looking older head turner. I decided then and there to make that very achievable goal my future in the car hobby. My cars since that point have been what might be called higher end drivers. I have been very happy with the results.

Preservation, component restoration, and detailing are my goals even though I still don't take my own advice ALL the time.

This week I followed my advice and bought a very nice well preserved car. It was waaaay cheap compared to a restoration. some might think it is too new....... time goes by fast. It is only 8 years away from being a antique. I love the adaptability of this hobby!

Here's the toy.

Bernie

Edited August 8, 2011 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)

[Guest BJM]

Have you seen the latest Bugle? Thanks Pete. I might as well be a drug addict and you slowly pushed the drug of choice in front of me. Where's my straight jacket?

[50jetback]

Bryan,

This one's worth throwing some money at!!

http://forums.aaca.org/f165/1936-century-opera-coupe-ebay-309351.html

[Thriller]

Drool....