On-Line Flea market Suggestion

[Friartuck]

Perhaps this has been suggested before: Comments please. What do you think?

Subject: On Line Flea Market

What is an On-Line Flea Market: The On-Line Flea market is a method to connect parts sellers to buyers . It is based on photographs of the items the seller is offering with a minimal, if any description. A critical consideration of the On-Line Flea Market is it must be as easy to use for the seller as possible. Digital photography is well within the means of most car collectors and restorers and taking pictures is now fairly easy for most. Photos remain on the website till the item sells or perhaps just one year, not just one week. Software or web applications for Uploading photos has been proven (Craigslist is an example). Photos can be categorized in logical groups. Examples could be Exterior trim; tail light lenses, Engine; Water Pumps, or Chassis; Shocks. It is Important that this part of the On-line Flea market is structured to be as easy for the person posting his parts as possible, i.e. you have to make it easy for people to use. There are no up-front listing fees or costs. The only fee would be if a person purchased an item. The person looking for a part has an idea what the part looks like or perhaps a part number and is likely to recognize it upon seeing it, pretty much the way it is done now at regular flea markets. The potential buyer and vendor can exchange correspondence and additional photos if required. The vendor sets the price at the time of an inquiry is received from a potential buyer along with shipping info.

Why an On-Line Flea Market? Many of us attend flea markets in our own geographic area and rarely venture too far out of it. If for example, you were looking for a tail light lense for a 1950 Crosley, and haven’t found it yet, continued looking in your immediate area is unlikely to turn one up locally. However, there may be one 2 or 3 states away, that vendor has had it for years and doesn’t know someone has been looking for it. Further, the vendor who has it doesn’t know that its for a Crosley. So the cycle repeats itself: Vendor carries it to each flea market event and it sits, just waiting for the Crosley collector to come along.

The On-Line Flea Market is not E-bay. E bay sales rely heavily on the description supported by photos The Online flea market would be opposite, mainly photos supported by a few word and perhaps dimensions of the item. Also E bay charges insertion fees and a percentage of the sale for its fee structure. The On-Line Flea market would charge a flat referral fee for each successfully transaction. The intent is compensate the host for expenses with reasonable profit, not shareholders of a traded company.

The On-Line Flea Market is not craigslist.org. Craigslist.org is an On-Line website that handles many different types of classified advertisements such as employment, jewelry, Personal ads, household goods, livestock, etc. It permits a poster to include photos which helps. Craigslist does not charge for their service which might seem attractive. The main problem with craigslist is it is very regional, mainly at the single county or parish level or in some cases multiple counties area. You can place ads in your immediate area and craigslist has special search filters to eliminate similar postings to adjacent areas. A benefit of the regional listings structure is you can usually pick up the item you’re viewing, getting it immediately and saving on shipping. Because of the regional nature you would have to search all counties in the every state in the US and Canada. Craigslist advertisements can be deleted by posters, which may present a conflict with other posters. Craigslist has its place for local classified needs, but does not solve the need for a central database of photos dedicated to just the car hobby.

Factors why this will be an advantage to the car hobby. Attendance at large shows like Hershey have declined, mainly due to expenses like gasoline and lodging. Vendors that are far away from central Pennsylvania may choose not to make the hike with little promise that he’ll recoup his expenses or even break even. The same applies to buyers or collectors looking for certain parts, and applies to both US and foreign collectors. Over the past 5+ years there has been a steady rise in the number of foreign collectors in the car hobby. This trend is likely to continue. The On-Line Flea market would satisfy the need to bring collectors and vendors together that may not have had the opportunity any other way.

On-Line Flea market Set Up and operation. The proposed On-Line Flea Market Could be hosted by a company well known and versed in the hobby such as Hemmings Motor News. Why HMN? The number of vendors advertising in the parts sections of HMN has been declining. Parts ads are mostly text and not pictorial and relies on the vendor knowing what he is selling. Advertising in HMN requires up-front fees which may be shying away potential customers. The On-Line Flea Market has no up-front fees making it the best possible financial situation for the vendor posting his parts, no investment. The company’s (e.g. HMN) reward would be the referral fee collected at the time of transaction.

Potential problems of the On-Line Flea Market.

1. The part that the buyer purchased is not right. This is not different than current practices. It would be up to the vendor whether he honors returns.

2. The photos that posted are sized wrong. Digital photography and computer monitors do not need high resolution pictures or pictures that are large in size. There are methods that help determine if a picture is too large like that found on craigslist.

3. Picture is out of focus, bad lighting or has shadows. This would hurt the vendor posting the picture as a potential purchaser can’t recognize the item. A section of the On-Line Flea market would have a tutorial on what makes good photos and would include both good and bad examples.

4. SPAMERS can flood the On-line Flea market much like is done on E-bay. A poster could place ads for aftermarket products like AM/FM Satellite radios. This would have to have moderator intervention and which could lead to the possible expulsion of the poster.

Chris Wantuck

friartuck@monmouth.com

Edited August 2, 2011 by Friartuck
Typos (see edit history)

[auburnseeker]

Does this already exist? Are you proposing to start this site. How are you going to get traffic to your site(promotion)??

You will be fighting craigslist an all free service which is picked up and rebroadcast by Sitemash.

You will have to set up an account with customers so you can get paid.

I have seen a few somewhat local attempts of similar old car parts sites and none seem to fly, they all stumble and fall. How will you beable to get traffic to your site? I guess it goes back to the promotion part.

It seems like starting an online business now to rival ebay or Craigslist is like opening a department store next door to walmart.

Just some thoughts. I'm always ready for a new venue to sell and buy. I sold over 3000 itmes on ebay last year and the new fees on shipping suck.

[Guest Double M]

Seems like SPAM to me.

[joe_padavano]

Seems like SPAM to me.

Seems like Craigslist to me.

Note that the O.P. has 490 posts, so I don't think it's spam.

[TG57Roadmaster]

Thanks for fixing the Crosley typo. You may be on to something with an online flea matket.

Good luck,

TG

Edited August 3, 2011 by TG57Roadmaster (see edit history)

[Restorer32]

FriarTuck is definitely NOT a spammer.

[Luv2Wrench]

I like the idea. I am for any idea that increases my ability to find the parts that I need to complete a car.

I know for a fact there are plenty of parts not being sold because the process for the seller is just too much.

[old car fan]

I still think the best way to find parts is right here,post what you have,or have for sale .Maybe,if we all do this ,ebay may change?

[joe_padavano]

I still think the best way to find parts is right here,post what you have,or have for sale .Maybe,if we all do this ,ebay may change?

I doubt ebay will even notice the difference in volume...

[Guest Dick Whittington]

Friartuck, this is an avenue we have been giving serious consideration to founding a online automotive only auction. We have the software that has the capability to host such a venue, would need quite a bit more server space. The logistics are absolutely mind boggling.

Something we have been playing with for the last 3-4 years. Do I wanna do it, or do I want to restore my '49 IHC pickup and '46 IHC highway tractor. I suspect in the end, neither will be accomplished due to the lack of time.

Edited August 3, 2011 by Dick Whittington (see edit history)

[Friartuck]

Dick Whittington,

Thanks for offering this response to my On-Line Flea market suggestion. You mention pursuing as an auction. In an auction venue, the seller has to know what the item is or at least describe it. At that point Ebay satisfies that need. My suggestion is not an auction, just a means to bring together parts and collectors.

Chris

[Shop Rat]

I think that the idea could work.

Like others I would rather it be a "here is the photo and discription and here is the price I am asking" format. Many folks do not have the time, or don't want to take the time, to follow an auction and possibly deal with prices being falsely raised during bidding to jack up the price.

I think that as much as possible items should be listed separately. And in catagories as to what make and model they are to make it easy on the buyer to find what they want without plowing through pages and pages of "misc." ads with a photo with mixed items in it. I for one would take one glance at photos like that and move on to ads where the seller had taken the time to sort out the items they want to sell.

[Restorer32]

Would be an immense amount of work to keep listings up to date I would think but it would be handy to have a site where I could post excess items for sale as well as items wanted.

[Dave@Moon]

Would be an immense amount of work to keep listings up to date...

Not if every post had an automatic 7 day expiration date, unless renewed by the seller within a specified time.

[Friartuck]

Shop Rat, Restorer32, and Dave,

Thank you for the comments and feedback. I did not want this to be an auction for the reasons Shop Rat stated. The ability to post wanted items is something I missed and I've revised my plan accordingly. Thanks Restorer32. This would be as automated as possible and believe their would have to be a moderator/webmaster of some sort. FYI craigslist claims to run their 700 regional sites with about 30 people. The length of time would have to be thought about carefully, even old ads could be still valid. The plan (concept) has been revised to permit a search function if the listing vendor knew what the item fits.

[Dave@Moon]

Why an On-Line Flea Market? Many of us attend flea markets in our own geographic area and rarely venture too far out of it. If for example, you were looking for a tail light lense for a 1950 Crosley, and haven’t found it yet, continued looking in your immediate area is unlikely to turn one up locally. However, there may be one 2 or 3 states away, that vendor has had it for years and doesn’t know someone has been looking for it. Further, the vendor who has it doesn’t know that its for a Crosley......

The On-Line Flea Market is not craigslist.org. Craigslist.org is an On-Line website that handles many different types of classified advertisements such as employment, jewelry, Personal ads, household goods, livestock, etc. It permits a poster to include photos which helps. Craigslist does not charge for their service which might seem attractive. The main problem with craigslist is it is very regional, mainly at the single county or parish level or in some cases multiple counties area. You can place ads in your immediate area and craigslist has special search filters to eliminate similar postings to adjacent areas.

While it's true that Craigslist is mainly a regional site, auburnseeker is correct in that Sitemash is commonly used to search among the regional Craigslist sites for unique items. I routinely use it to look for Triumph parts on Craigslist all over the country.

However it is for the seller that has no idea what he's selling that is a good idea. A bunch of photos might be enough to identify that Crosley taillight for a buyer, when the seller has no idea what it is. Unless you wanted to waste your time looking at thousands of "unknown red lens" listings on Craigslist, hoping some seller wasted their time posting them, those parts today are lost to the hobby.

Basically I think what Friartuck is talking about is not a department store so much as a Filiene's Basement, a place where real bargains may be found among parts that many sellers are now tossing rather than wasting their money & effort putting out $1 tarps at Hershey. On online rummage is a better description of what this site could become.

That could work. It would need a photo feature coupled to a word search, much like eBay's, and very unlike Craigslist. It would also not be a place sellers could hope to make a living (or even much of a profit), and that should be made clear. There also would be IRS complications if any online payment program were coupled to it (I'm still wondering how those eBay 1 cent cd sellers are coping with the IRS's 200 transaction limit.:confused: ).

I also think the biggest problem would be online vendors using the site to scarf up all the valuable "unknown" items, reselling them on eBay and Craigslist. But even that wouldn't be so bad. At least the parts aren't lost to the hobby.

This could be a serious online addiction for some of us as well!

Edited August 3, 2011 by Dave@Moon (see edit history)

[joe_padavano]

I'm still struggling with how this is different from Craigslist (I use Searchtempest to do national searches, but it's the same thing as Sitemash). Craigslist is free. Would the proposed service be free or fee? If the latter, what would be different from Craigslist to justify the fee? If free, how is it capitalized (Craigslist charges for job ads, hence their revenue stream)?

Sorry, but I just see this as one more fragmented classified site that will have a small following, few parts, and no business plan. Many have already come and gone.

[1912Staver]

I agree there is a need for something better than EBay or Craigslist. Craigslist sellers are often wary of a potential buyer that they cannot meet face to face and receive cash from. Infact there was a interview with a local Police officer a couple of days ago on the local TV news advising potential Craigslist sellers to treat ANY non local inquiry as a scam.

EBay has deteriorated markedly in the last year or so. Unless you are in the market for offshore aftermarket junk. The listings for genuine old car hobby market items appears to have have fallen off significantly. Perhaps it's the econamy; but for the sort of things I am looking for {mostly mid teen's parts but also 60's sports car parts}, EBay is becoming a waste of time.

Lets hope that a old car hobby system evolves. There are still many somewhat incomplete/ unfinished projects out there.

All the best Greg in Canada

[LINC400]

I don't see how pictures only are supposed to work. For example, if I need a taillight, I am supposed to look through 500 photos to see if maybe anything might possibly look like the taillight I need? Sounds like a big waste of time to look through all these photos and possibly not even find one. Especially when I can look at Ebay or Craigslist by description and find out in seconds if anything is there for my car.

If you want to set it up like Ebay, but with all "buy it now" type listings that can be searched by description, that might be useful. Pictures only sounds like an unorganized mess I wouldn't want to waste time with.

[Guest bkazmer]

if there is additional descriptive info, why exclude it? Non-English speakers can still benefit from much of this

have a way to keep out the generic aftermarket crap that clutters eBay now

[auburnseeker]

You could have an unknown category where all the unidentified stuff could go. You would probably need to break that up as well into subcategories. But I think you need a search capacility much like ebay as well. I know if I'm looking for say 1948 Plymouth parts the last thing I want to do is search through mountains of 57 Chevy stuff.

Hopefully you can find a way to make it work.

I would alos offer a cattegory where people could offer box lots or larger lots. Alot of people just want to move out a bunch of parts in one shot and don't want to list every item.

[TG57Roadmaster]

A recent ebay search for "1966 Country Sedan" yielded more than 40,000 parts with the dreaded "(fits 1966 Country Sedan)." Narrowing it down to the "Vintage auto parts" subsection still resulted in hundreds of knock-off Recaro seats, antennae, necker knobs, and new junk that, yes, fits in a '66 Country Sedan, but were not made for the car.

Ebay now has the mentality of the, "Hello, my name Peggy" customer service spots, in that listings equal dollars, and to Hades with actually making it hobbyist friendly. The person or company that comes up with a model for making an online parts source work will make many friends and customers, as long as it's not overcome with one-for-all, ersatz crapola that (fits 1966 Country Sedan).

If it can be policed properly, it should be a winner.

TG

Ps, I wonder how long it takes to initially set up an ad for that one amazing part that

(fits 1966 Coutry Sedan)

(fits 1966 Country Squire)

(fits 1955 Willys Bermuda)

(fits 1934 Packard Twelve)

(fits 1922 Kissel Gold Bug)

etc....

[BlackStar]

IMHO: Because of the cost of gas, lodging, etc, I have since taken my past flea market business to the web. I do it privately, and keeping up the inventory, keeping a database, shooting images, is incredibly time consuming.. I have to advertise to bring customers to the site (costly).. sure could not make a living doing this, nor have a life either.

I wish there was an easier way... I still do it since I really enjoy the hobby and love talking to hobbyists, all over the world..

Although I have had to stop helping people identify things that they put on evil-bay.

It would be an huge task to keep track of things..

[Harold]

If the listing were limited to photos only, an easy way to include a description would be to write it on a piece of paper near the item so it shows in the picture. The downside would be that the description wouldn't be searchable.