White walls??Why vs why not

[Guest]

What a fun thread! That's why I've been in this hobby all my life, antique cars can be fun. Thanks to all who have so strongly expressed their opinions about what I consider an accessory if choice. My choice is white walls too.

I suspect this is a product of my youth. At that time a "COOL" car had to have dual exhausts, fender skirts AND Whitewall Tires. We wanted this so we could drive around and be noticed for our nice ride. Nobody wanted to be seen in Dad's care or heaven forbid their Grandfathers car! (Neither one of my Grandfathers would spend 50 cents for anyting cool)

In those formative years, we didn't care about how they left the factory, we wanted what looked cool to us.

Now as more mature "Collectors" of "Investment Cars", we are all about correct, but then again, many of us are Fathers or Grandfathers now.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Interesting observation you have Paul. When I was growing up in the 50's & 60's we seemed to have four types of people & cars. First we had the average Joe who could have black or white walls, spinners if they came with the car, skirts if they came with the car (standard on Cadillac). Second, we had the European driver who in most cases used black walls (skirts and white walls on a VW were unthinkable). Both my Grandfathers born in the old country in the late 1800's would say white walls were a empty bourgeois gesture. Third, we had the low rider, tail dragger, flame thrower, chi chi balls around the window with what always seemed like a pair of fuzzy dice hanging from the rear view mirror and blue dots in the rear tail lights. This was all the pre-hydraulic lifts and 13" wheels on a full size Chevy. These guys always had white walls and skirts. They were back then usually not packing, but you could count on a switch blade or chains in the trunk.

Fourth was the racers. Stock, Super stock, and Gassers on the street (although I did witness a pair or Fuelies run on the street). In the fifties and early sixties there were some race cars that ran white walls, but by around 62-63 most everyone was running black walls for fear of being called a geek or a low rider. Skirts were unthinkable and on the average car of the early 60's ( not a Cadillac or high end car because they were MADE for them). If you used skirts on say a 63 Chevy you had the look associated with type three in this text.

Group four was where I fit in.

D.

[Dave Mellor NJ]

5-30-11

Happy motoring!

(Did you remember that this was a slogan for Exxon in the 50's?)

This slogan ran for the company then called Humble Oil, then Enco.

archiveman2977

I remember that slogan used by Esso which became Exxon in the 50s (I thought 60s). I heard of Humble Refining but not till after the name change. The "Esso"moniker being "SO"(for Standard Oil) spelled out. This was the descendant of John Rockefeller's company which was forced to break into 7 smaller companies as a result of the robber baron laws in the early 1900s. Esso was Standard Oil of New Jersey. There was Socony(Standard oil Company of New York) which became Mobil, Calso (California) which became Chevron, Sohio (Ohio), I think Texaco was one, Indiana another and one other

[MCHinson]

Esso had to become Exxon later than the 50's. I was born in 1960 and I remember seeing Esso signs. I don't know when they started the conversion, but there were Esso stations around in the 60's and/or 70's..

Update:

If Wikipedia is to be believed....

Exxon formally replaced the Esso, Enco, and Humble brands in the United States on January 1, 1973.

Edited June 1, 2011 by MCHinson
added update (see edit history)

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Matt, '73 sounds about right. Esso is one of my favorite brands for collecting and I have quite a few items from the 60s. In the mid 60s they phased out the "oil drop" characters (yes, there was a female also, and they have names - can't recall them off hand though) and brought out the tiger who predates the Exxon name change. Also, as a matter of trivia, I think it took a while to get the new signage out as we had a local garage operating as an Esso station a little past 1/1/73.

Always looking for "Esso Watchdog" stuff - the mascot for the home oil heating division was a German Shepherd. Goes with our other hobby. Anyone remember the larger than life fiberglass dogs that sat atop buildings and slightly smaller dogs that sat atop the oil trucks? A little before my time but a few are still out there - I really need one of those!

Sorry for going off topic but the whitewall thing seems just about covered, Barry did start my day off with a chuckle though!

[Curti]

If you are having your car judged, and the car came from the factory with whitewalls, and you prefer whitewalls by all means put them on. If it is a 30's car and it came with white walls they were double whites. I see no reason why the judging rules should be bent and 'grandfather in' single whites when they were not available in that era. Judging is accuraacy and originality IHMO.

[Guest De Soto Frank]

Did a whitewall do something to you that makes you this way?

ROTFL ! :D:D

[West Peterson]

Perhaps I need to go see a shrink to figure it out for sure, but it probabably is based on same reason why I can't stand cars painted red... or late-'30s cars with sidemount tires... or extra lights on the front......

[Barry Wolk]

And here I thought you liked my Porsche. It has wide whites and it's red.

[West Peterson]

Actually, in Germany that color might probably be considered Brown (braun). My dad picked a Mercedes color for his Packard speedster, and it's called "something braun." Your car is very similar in color, if I remember correctly. It's a very attractive red, though.

[Barry Wolk]

Um, the color is "Turkish Red".

[West Peterson]

close enough to the Mercedes braun, though, which is why I like it.

[Matt Harwood]

West, as much as I like you and look forward to shaking your hand at a show, I'm scared to stand next to my Cadillac, what with you and your whitewall/accessory psychosis nearby. One of these days, you're just going to snap and start using a giant Sharpie to erase all the whitewalls one at a time, grunting and muttering under your breath, "Not...factory...original...Too...flashy..."

And who even knows what will happen to those poor, poor Pilot Rays...

Edited June 2, 2011 by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[Barry Wolk]

[West Peterson]

You can imagine how I feel driving my Packard with those dad-burn silly doughnuts on it!! Looks like frosted Cheerios!!!

Figure it this way, Matt... As long as I vent, there shouldn't be any reason to "snap," right? I think you're safe.

My opinions are all meant in fun. I do think the Pilot Rays are neat, as they are much smaller in diameter than those truck lights (sometimes referred to as Trippe Lights).

[Barry Wolk]

Next time you visit I'll make sure to hide the whitewalls.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Hmm, I think the WWW on the '40 Packard would indicate West hates something much more than White sidewall tires- that would be parting with the GREEN necessary to make the switch!

[Barry Wolk]

It's all becoming clear now.

[West Peterson]

I'm afraid I'd be ostricized if I actually carried through.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

The PAC Fashion Police are watching your closely, West...

[Barry Wolk]

How do you feel about open vs. closed, West? Might as well get it all out there.

[Matt Harwood]

Or leather versus cloth interiors?

Poor West, he's a victim of his own good taste.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Poor West has probably heard enough (but it's probably not over yet... ).

Any thoughts on those trim rings that emulate white walls? I think they mainly show up on Mopar products, immediately postwar and cover the section between the tire and the hubcap. Creative style during a time materials shortages may have been a factor or just plain gosh awful?? (I kind of like them on the right car, especially with blackwalls, although I have seen them paired with WWW also. I imagine West would HATE that...

[Barry Wolk]

Screaming off into the woods, he would be.

[Guest De Soto Frank]

Perhaps I need to go see a shrink to figure it out for sure, but it probabably is based on same reason why I can't stand cars painted red... or late-'30s cars with sidemount tires... or extra lights on the front......

As for the "late-'30's cars with side-mount tires", some look better than others...

Personally, I always thought the sidemount spares on the '40 ( & '41?) Buicks looked a little odd ( anachronistic ) ...

Packards seemed to wear them best...

[Guest Kingoftheroad]

There are always exceptions to the rule but, for the most part, "Luxury Cars" look better with whitewalls..IMO. Blackwalls on many luxury cars give the cars a more "bare bones model" look. I personally prefer raised white letters but they just don't look good in some applications. Tire preference also depends on your tastes too.

[alsancle]

Whenever I see a car I like for sale, I always itemize in my head the stuff I'm going to take off of it to make it look better. Usually this starts with the whitewalls and then goes right through the various "add on" sorts of stuff that gets put on a car over time. A stylish car will stand on it's own without flashing lights (or whitewalls). After I'm done taking the costume off the car (in my head) I proceed to think about how much better the car will look with the appropriately subdued original colors.

[alsancle]

Would this really look better in red with whitewalls????

[Matt Harwood]

I'm actually pretty fond of this one, and I think whitewalls would not improve its looks one bit:

[Guest stephen48]

It looks excellent as it is now.It does not need anything extra!Regards,Stephen.

[Dauphinee]

Those are some extremely nice cars.

White wall or all black...looks great.

This post has brought alot of good questions to light...Being a newbie I didn't know what double white walls were.

[Dave Mellor NJ]

I remember going to judging schools in the eighties and being told double whitewalls were to be allowed only on motorcycles. Sales brochures and magazines were universally made made showing 3/4 views of cars with the inside of the far side tire being white but these were all artists conceptions not true to the car's actual appearance. The artists would exaggerate some features and enhance shapes making it look futuristic and streamlined. What I'm saying will surely ruffle some feathers but after repeatedly being presented these brochures as proof AACA judging caved in and now It's accepted as correct.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Both A.J. and Matt's examples are pretty, and I have to admit WWW is not the best for every application.

Dave, not sure I totally agree with what you are saying - check out period factory and just general photos and you will see double WWW, fairly frequently. You make a great point out of artist's conceptions though - wouldn't it be cool if some of those illustrations were the real thing?

[Curti]

I remember going to judging schools in the eighties and being told double whitewalls were to be allowed only on motorcycles. Sales brochures and magazines were universally made made showing 3/4 views of cars with the inside of the far side tire being white but these were all artists conceptions not true to the car's actual appearance. The artists would exaggerate some features and enhance shapes making it look futuristic and streamlined. What I'm saying will surely ruffle some feathers but after repeatedly being presented these brochures as proof AACA judging caved in and now It's accepted as correct.

Artists conceptions and drawings should NEVER be used for documentation,

only era and preferable factory photographs.

[West Peterson]

Artists conceptions and drawings should NEVER be used for documentation,

only era and preferable factory photographs.

I agree.

There are plenty of factory photographs showing double white sidewall tires in the Packard archives. In fact, all throughout the 1930s, I couldn't find even one that showed a single white sidewall.

[Guest bkazmer]

Poor West has probably heard enough (but it's probably not over yet... ).

Any thoughts on those trim rings that emulate white walls? I think they mainly show up on Mopar products, immediately postwar and cover the section between the tire and the hubcap. Creative style during a time materials shortages may have been a factor or just plain gosh awful?? (I kind of like them on the right car, especially with blackwalls, although I have seen them paired with WWW also. I imagine West would HATE that...

I've seen a set in Packard wrappers. sumptin like this? (attachment)

pack41bw.pdf

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Yep. Used to see sets of these around every once in a while but not so much anymore. Of course, that could be said about a lot of interesting parts. You see them online, but at the swap you have a better shot at T-shirts and Chinese tools these days!

[Guest bkazmer]

West, if you throw in the AC parts we can swap tires

[West Peterson]

That's not a bad idea. That would give me the trunk space needed for a spare tire when I remove the sidemounts.

Edited June 3, 2011 by West Peterson (see edit history)

[Steve_Mack_CT]

I think my car would look naked without the WWW. In fact, I actually bought a fifth one this Spring, speaking of spares. Well, the BW spare may well be original, at the very least it is very old, with only a couple grooves to sort of act like treads, and hard as a rock, so I figured a new one would be prudent anyway...

[Yellowriv]

Thanks for the suggestions for my 48 Fleetwood Sixty.

This thread has been really helpful. I'm going to go to blackwalls.

Not only that, I have removed the sidemounts, pilot ray and Trippe lights. I didn't know which was which but I figured the square ones were the Trippe lights seeing as they were just above the bumper and would light up the ground so people wouldn't trippe over. This was all a bit tricky but it worked out well because when I took off those sidemount thingies the lights came off with them. I had a funny lookin pair of lights in the shed called Woodlites or something. They look pretty airydynamic so I welded them to the bumper.

I noted Matt's comment about trunks so I have removed that as well. This worked a treat because I can now get a fridge in there standing up.

I must say she's starting to look good.......