Guest knichols4321 Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 I purchased a 1957 Buick Special. The engine has great power but there is a knocking sound coming from the bottom of the engine on the left side. Even though the car is 54 years old the mileage reads less thatn 25k miles. From the looks of the inside it appears to be accurate. There is no documentation to support that summation, thogh. I plan to have the engine totally rebuilt. What would be a reasonable figure to pay for this type of work? I am not interested in making any changes only want to keep it stock and able to take weekend road trips 800 miles or less at a time. Any and all suggestions welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PONTIAC1953 Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 hi, there's a rebuilt 57 buick engine and good transmission for sale on ebay, the seller is on this forum alot in the buick forum. he's asking $1500 for engine and trans, you'll pay three times that amount having your's rebuilt. charles coker, 1953 pontiac tech advisor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 There's "rebuilt" and there's "REBUILT". If I were buying an engine advertised as "REBUILT" I'd want to see all the receipts for parts."REBUILT" means engine block boiled out and shot blasted, rebored, new pistons, new cam, lifters, cam bearings, main and rod bearings, crank journals in tolerance and polished, rods checked for straightness, timing gear and chain, oil pump. Heads should be checked for flatness and/or ground, new or knurled guides, valves & seats replaced or reground as required, springs checked/replaced, checked/new rocker arm shafts, rocker arms replaced or rebuilt."Rebuilt" means bores scuffed, new rings, bearing clearances checked, valves lapped and whatever looks real worn replaced."REBUILT" is about $1000 for machine work and the heds redone if the valves and guides are mostly useable. about another $1000 for parts. Taking it to a reputable shop and saying "REBUILD" it I would say ball park $4000.Before I commited to anything I'd find the source of the noise...............Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stealthbob Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 With taxes I was almost 7K! :eek:This was a COMPLETE job though.Everything Bhigdog said and then some, not one part was reused. Full boil on block/heads and other covers ect. Magnaflux to test for cracks. Bores .30 over, crank ground .10 under then a full balance with flywheel and harmonic balancer on. Line hone....every part was weighed and balanced. Cleaned up the intake manifold, separated the valley cover and replaced the mesh filter. Put high strength frp rod bolts in...the stuff he uses on his race cars. Decked the heads ground the valve seats and 3 angled the intake. I'm sure I'm missing other things....was all this absolutely necessary? Probably not but I like the thought of a well built and solid engine so why not. I enjoyed working with this engine guy, he would call me on the days when stuff was being done and invite me over to see.One thing though...you will get pressure to put hardened seats in, my advice is don't! I went back and forth on this many times....the wall around the seats are thin and if done improperly they will bore into the water jacket, done right you have paper thin wall left. You say you won't be beating on it so you will be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Yeah but that's in Loonies not real money. OOOPS, the Loonie is worth more than the buck these days. .......................Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stealthbob Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Well the taxes are 13% so you do the math.....The bill was just slightly north of 6K.I was lucky though because of the good exchange rate , all the parts had to make it's way north over the great wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thriller Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 The other thing with respect to hardened seats is that the composition of Buick blocks makes it unnecessary...a good grind will do the trick.I paid less for the engine in the Wildcat, but that's six years ago now too...of course the shop did a bunch of other mechanical work on the car, so the total bill was more than Bob's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g-g-g0 Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 I just had a 250 HP Special motor rebuilt this summer. It was REBUILT as described above. I am setting at about $5800 with the motor re-set in the car and the clutch adjusted. Ready to rock and roll with a bit of warm weather!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stealthbob Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Also...FYI, here is a great write up on the first start and break in:Breaking in your new or rebuilt engine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Phillips Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 I just can't see why a 25,000 mile engine would need a total rebuild, reboring, new pistons, etc. You can probably fix the bottom end knock with new bearings and a reground crankshaft. I wouldn't rebore the engine unless it was smoking, burning oil, or has scarred cylinder walls from a broken piston ring or something like that. If it's a real 25,000 mile engine, it won't have a ridge at the top of the cylinder walls and that will tell you a lot about its condition when you open it up. What I'm saying is, don't automatically assume you will have to spend $6000 or $8000 to rebuild that engine. It's probably not going to be used as a daily driver after the rebuild, and it will probably be treated pretty well, so it's not like it has to be ready for years and years of hard use after the rebuild. I just don't see the need for spending thousands of extra dollars when you may not have to. I'm sure there will be people who will disagree with me, especially those for whom money is not a consideration.Pete Phillips, BCA #7338 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Phillips Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 I just can't see why a 25,000 mile engine would need a total rebuild, reboring, new pistons, etc. You can probably fix the bottom end knock with new bearings and a reground crankshaft. I wouldn't rebore the engine unless it was smoking, burning oil, or has scarred cylinder walls from a broken piston ring or something like that. If it's a real 25,000 mile engine, it won't have a ridge at the top of the cylinder walls and that will tell you a lot about its condition when you open it up. What I'm saying is, don't automatically assume you will have to spend $6000 or $8000 to rebuild that engine. It's probably not going to be used as a daily driver after the rebuild, and it will probably be treated pretty well, so it's not like it has to be ready for years and years of hard use after the rebuild. I just don't see the need for spending thousands of extra dollars when you may not have to. I'm sure there will be people who will disagree with me, especially those for whom money is not a consideration.Pete Phillips, BCA #7338 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caballero2 Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 (edited) I think a good professional diagnosis is order. One of our club members with a '57 Century had a very similar problem. It could have been anything from a bad fuel pump accentric to pump rod problem, or a bad water pump and as often is the case on a low milage engine that has not been driven for a long time, a bent push rod. His problem was a bent push rod. I agree that the only concern should be seals. My guess that an overhaul gasket set and a valve job with hard seats plus labor should be all that is involved. $2K to $2.5K ?Dan P.S. It could be as serious as a broken piston. Cylinder #1 for some reason seems to be problematic in these engines. Or was it #2? Edited March 10, 2011 by Caballero2 Added P.S. (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Pete makes a lot of sense. But you can now see what some have paid for making their engine as good as new , or better. You should probably not have to spend that much. Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stealthbob Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Very true...I maybe should have stopped at the bottom end myself as all I really had as a failure was a spun rod bearing.The thing is the "Might as wells" kicked in....before I knew it I said screw it, do it all!I want a long distance reliable driver, I maybe could have done less but by doing everything I removed the worry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
50jetback Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 One thing though...you will get pressure to put hardened seats in, my advice is don't! I went back and forth on this many times....the wall around the seats are thin and if done improperly they will bore into the water jacket, done right you have paper thin wall left. You say you won't be beating on it so you will be fine.We haven't had leaded fuel in Australia for 10 or more years now. To prevent valve seat regression ( caused by the lack of lead acting as a lubricant in the fuel ) engine rebuilders invariably use hardened valve seats. The only alternative was to use lead replacement additives, some of which seemed to cause other mechanical problems.Are you still allowed to use leaded fuel in North America? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reatta Man Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 One more emphasis on diagnosis BEFORE committing to a total rebuild. A compression test, removing the valve covers to inspect for obvious wear and sludge, and even a couple of hours of shop time at a shop with a camera they can drop into the spark plug hole can be cheap insurance. If you haven't owned a car for long, you may be chasing a recent rebuild with another rebuild. Even the best rebuilders can and do get defective parts; if everything in the engine is sound and you don't know if it has had major work, just fix obvious things like spun valves or bent push rods, drive it for a while and then determine if you think it is dependable for a road trip. We sometimes forget (even in a Buick forum) that those Buick craftsmen back in the day that build Buick engines in the late 40s, 50s and even late into the 60s, were great at what they did and they built engines that were in the top 10% of all GM engines. It seems obvious from numberous stories in here that those Buick engine shops didn't act like the guys down the road that were turning out four-cyliner Chevy Nova engines. Their pride in the Buick engine seems to show up in their long, long lives, so a rebuild may not always be money well spent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 50's nailheads were known for pistons breaking up................Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 I agree with Pete. I have done a number of engines without replacing everything and have not had any problems. These include daily drivers. The best decision is to determine the cause of the noise and start there. Everything else is speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PONTIAC1953 Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 the rebuilt engine with good dynaflow is been sold, charles coker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest justjoe Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 I had my 248 crank turned for $275.00, with a couple of rods, bearings and gasket kit it was under a grand. Some of these shops I talked to wanted to sell all kinds of stuff, one told me it needed to be straightened first ( ???) for $150.00 then a special crank machine (because it was so long) for $600. Wire brushes, a pressure washer, carb clean and brake clean will get any block reasonably clean. Make sure all of the coolant passages are clear.Some of these shops hear classic car engine and the dollar signs flash in their eyes, they are used to dealing with hot rodders with bottomless pockets. I'm in Illinois and used Budget engine in chicago, did a great job.My engine was "rebuilt" when I got the car. It was very noisy and seized, on tear down I found that some dope cut the crank 20 under and used 10 under bearings. Obviously they did not use plastigauge, it must have run 10 minutes. It had a new fresh 20 under bore and pistons so the fix was simple. Kind of glad I got the chance to go through the motor and make should everything was right. I should have known what was to come because I also found the torque converter drain holes not lined up with the holes in the flex plate and was tightened up and bent the plate.I suggest you talk to other people near you before select a machine shop. Get a firm price on what they are to do and hold them to it. just my 2 centsthanks joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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