My next project? 1921 Packard Coupe.

[1939_Buick]

..Nothing positive but one e-mail from a lady wanting to sell two Buick Marquettes I can pass on her details if you know anyone who would be interested they are in Central NSW. .

OK : send me the details. No personal interest, but I can forward on to the Aussie Buick clubs

[oldcar]

Thank you Matthew, I have sent you an e-mail.

Re the Buicks; I have sent you a p.m, with the contact details.

"Keep on keeping on"

Bj.

[MCHinson]

Got it. I have sent him an email.

[unimogjohn]

In case anyone is wondering like I was. Autobianchi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[oldcar]

Hi John

Of course I should have added Bianchina but I did not want to confuse people. I may have to learn Italian but then I have owned several Fiats in the past. These are just two. The single seat hillclinb car used a Fiat 1100cc engine driving a back- to-front Fiat 600 trans-axle. Its 14:1 comp ratio engine ran to 8,000 rpm on a mix of 100 octane Avgas and methanol. Its one big problem was that it kept trying to pass itself. The start line officials complained that it hurt their ears, even with industrial ear muffs! The Green car is a 1959 Fiat-OSCA which used a fabulous 1500cc 4cylinder 2 OHC engine designed by the Maserati Brothers and lots of other goodies to suit its performance. It was found out in the open at the back of a builders yard with the engine totally dismantled and all the nuts and bolts lost.

"Keep on keeping on"

Bj.

Edited December 13, 2012 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

While it may not look like it, the attached photograph represents another mile-stone. After almost a week of lying underneath the car, measuring, cutting, welding then crawling under again. This is the original exhaust tip fitted in the factory in 1923. while the two pipes (engine to muffler and tail pipe) and the black paint are new, everything else in the complete exhaust system is as fitted when the car was new, the muffler, flange joints, and all hangers are those fitted in 1923.

"Keep on keeping on"

Bj.

Edited December 14, 2012 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

Hello Roger

You asked about compensation for the exhaust dilatation, that I understand is expanding with heat. I am sorry but that, I cannot answer. It passed through my mind too but I have made the exhaust on the Packard as close to the original as possible. The only answer I could think of was that with it's low compression ratio and relatively low octane fuel requirement the exhaust gasses do not reach the same temperatures as in a modern engine and accordingly the rate of expansion is lower. Certainly the factory seems to have made no allowance for the exhaust "growing". I did think about adding a flexible section into the front (engine) pipe but in the interests of originality, decided against it. Perhaps someone with a similar car may care to comment.

"Keep on keeping on"

Bj.

Edited December 14, 2012 by oldcar (see edit history)

[keiser31]

Hi y'all

With the Packard edging closer to completion the question of my next project seems to constantly creep into conversations I have with my friends.

This now seems to be resolved with my good friend Jim Williams offering me his unloved little Autobianchi. All I need to do is have it moved out of the woods behind his home in the north east of South Carolina. All offers of help would be much appreciated. Jim is now over eighty and while he can co-ordinate the move he will require some muscle power.

"Keep on keeping on"

Bj.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]167297[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]167298[/ATTACH]

There is one of these down the road from me....on a stick at a junkyard.

[Roger Zimmermann]

Hello Roger

You asked about compensation for the exhaust dilatation, that I understand is expanding with heat. I am sorry but that, I cannot answer. It passed through my mind too but I have made the exhaust on the Packard as close to the original as possible. The only answer I could think of was that with it's low compression ratio and relatively low octane fuel requirement the exhaust gasses do not reach the same temperatures as in a modern engine and accordingly the rate of expansion is lower. Certainly the factory seems to have made no allowance for the exhaust "growing". I did think about adding a flexible section into the front (engine) pipe but in the interests of originality, decided against it. Perhaps someone with a similar car may care to comment.

Probably it was not a concern at that time or the construction allows some expansion. Packard built already cars since some years and if a problem relative to the expansion would have appeared, a different installation would have been done.

If I raised that question is because I had a minor problem with my '56 de Ville. As you probably know, the exhaust is coming through the bumper ends. At the base of each bumper end there is a large plate made with rubber to guide the exhaust tube and avoid rattles. When I restored the car, I saw some remains of steel part looking like a spoon at the base of the rubber pad. Not knowing for what they were good, I discarded them (one spoon each side). Some time after, by doing some maintenance, I noticed that my mufflers were crusched. Then, some light came on: the spoon was there to let the exhaust tube go out during expansion. Resting on the rubber, they could not move and the weakest element had to get crushed.

I did new parts from memory and replaced the mufflers; they are still intact after many years of usage.

[oldcar]

Hi Roger

One for my "modern" car friends assures me that with todays turbocharged engines that on some hi-performance cars exhaust pipes can "grow" up to 4 inches (100 mm) in length.

It sounds remarkable but he claims to have the graphs and data to prove it.

It really does seem that with 4.5 : 1 comp ratio and fuel little better than kerosene that in 1923 this was not such a problem. Only time will tell.

One thing I do know is that with the tuned length "extractors" on the Lagonda Rapier that the wall thickness of the pipes has become appreciably thiner over 30 years

"Keep on keeping on"

Bj

Edited December 15, 2012 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

Moving right along, I must confess that I have made one concession to modernity! I have fitted a modern throw away fuel filter. Originally there was no means to filter the fuel. As the car has been standing around for so long and despite my best efforts there is a fair chance that there will still be a certain number of foreign bodies in the petrol tank, I believe that it is a wise precaution to install a filter. While I was under the car with my camera I could not resist a couple more photographs. The first shows a general view of the underside of the car, very much as I believe it would have looked in 1923, The next shot is of the brake rods and return springs. these are all the ones originally fitted. Finally the battery box, as the exhaust runs reasonably close to the box I have taken the extra precaution of fitting a heat shield along that side. Before someone complains about the lack of a split pin in the shackle bolt in the rear spring hanger. The bolt screws into the hanger and the nut is simply a lock nut. as a precaution I have used self locking "crown" nuts.

"Keep on keeping on"

Bj.

Edited December 16, 2012 by MCHinson (see edit history)

[oldcar]

Hello

Can someone please tell me how to delete the attached thumbnail photograph of the brake return springs upside down. I realised my mistake and replaced the photograph with a correct one.

Thank you.

Bj.

Bernie, As a moderator I was able to delete it for you. If it happens again, I think you can click on "Edit", then click on "go advanced", then go to "manage attachments". There you can add or delete attachments in a post.

Edited December 16, 2012 by MCHinson (see edit history)

[Guest PGJ45]

Bernie - I have been logging in regularly and enjoying the story, todays pic's underneath that car are amazing!

I will organise a visit in the New Year.

Peter

[oldcar]

We are back again having taken a couple of days off catching up with son Nic and his young family. They had driven over from Adelaide, South Australia to meet up with us, approximately half way, in Western Victoria. An enjoyable pre-Christmas chance to recharge the batteries. On our return journey we avoided the main Western Highway and drove on some great country roads barely seeing another car. While It may have taken an hour or two longer it was well worth the effort. Since returning late yesterday I have collected a small batch of plating and have managed to install the interior door pull handles. These had the chrome stripped off and replaced with nickel. For the 600+ km journey the VW Jetta used just a fraction over 5 litres of diesel per 100kms at a steady 100-110 kph.

"Keep on keeping on"

Bj,

Edited December 20, 2012 by oldcar (see edit history)

[Ian_Greenlaw]

hi bernie,

are you going to Dave the painter Xmas BBQ lunch at his factory ?

if you are could you take my hubcap.

talk soon

Ian

[Guest donald ellis]

After having my 1922 Single Six Packard 126 for years and after having seen every photo out there I still can't tell if cowl-lights were standard equipment for the closed cars or whether they were an optional extra. My Packard came with lights to the last owner but one, but got left out of the restoration. Do they mimic the radiator shape? Does anyone know of a pair available? Drop me a line,please.

Donald (Ellis)

[Guest donald ellis]

Hello! I've not come to this site for some time so I don't know anything about the current state of play but if you still need it I have a 1922 126 that's very original in equipment (Atwater Kent etc) and I will photograph the lower end of the steering box for you.

Let me know,

Donald (Ellis)

[oldcar]

Hello Donald

If you go to the Packard Info photo archive and look at the photographs of"when new" cars of the early 1920s you will see that cowl lights were not introduced until later about 1925-6. Auxiliary lights were built into the main head lamps as a second globe.

I have spent hours researching details of the cars on this valuable resource. There is no where else with anything like the number of cars photographed in most cases when new or just months old. http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/myalbum/viewcat.php?cid=26

"Keep on keeping on"

Bj.

Edited December 21, 2012 by oldcar (see edit history)

[Guest cben09]

Without looking in the photo book,,,My memory says cowl lamps were first used on the 1928 cars

both closed and open,,,

when they went to doors in the hood they added the lamps,,,I feel destroying that beautiful Loooong

well known Packard hood,,,Sidemounts also spoil the long line,,,

Hope this helps,,,This applys to series 1 and up 6 and 8,,,not earlier twin-6 and 6 and 4

Cheers,,,Ben

[oldcar]

To all those who have contributed to this thread and those who just look in from time to time, I would like to take this opportunity to wish you all a very merry christmas and a happy and healthy New Year.

Bernie J.

I agree with Ben. The clean uncluttered lines of the early Packards in part go to add to their appeal.

Edited December 21, 2012 by oldcar (see edit history)

[Guest cben09]

Merry Christmas and good tidings for the new year,,,We just got 4" of wet slush today so it looks just like the picture cardsHoHo,,,,,

Glad to hear the Packard is progressing well,,,Cheers from Ben in Maine,,,[sOUTHERN,,Maine] haha,!!

[oldcar]

Having collected the proper black rubber case battery yesterday I have made one more step closer to completing the car only to take one step backwards after discovering a small leak in a soldered joint in the vacuum tank so it has had to come off postponing the long awaited "start up' one or two more days. At least I now know that the starter motor is working and the engine is turning OK. Patience is a virtue or so I am reliably informed. To the best of my knowledge there is just the one (two man) company still hand building batteries as there were in the 1920s & 30s here in Victoria Australia.

"Keep on keeping on"

Bj.

Edited December 21, 2012 by oldcar (see edit history)

[Guest donald ellis]

Bernie: I have been out of contact for months since I made a major move from Kentucky to my new home in Pittsford New York. I have been through the thread and you have done a wonderful job. I would like to debrief you regarding some items and issues which I have to deal with still on my 1922 Single Six. Do you have a source for that imaginative solution to the horn button problem? Do you suppose that the man who had the nice ignition switch plate on the instrument panel still has it? The enamel is off mine) In all your experience have you run across anyone with a set of sun-shade supports for the closed car? I have a friend in California who has taken my generator cut out cap (Atwater Kent) to reproduce it. It could be used to cover a non standard cutout and fool the judges! Are you interested in one? Thank you very much for your help in the past I'm looking forward to staying in touch. Donald (Ellis) P.S The same man Velthoen in California went to a swap meet in Bakersfield and sent me a NOS tail light assembly. Would you like for me to send you a p[picture of it in situ?

[oldcar]

Hello Donald

Good to hear from you again. I hope that life in Pittsford is good for you. That is quite some move from Kentucky. I will have to go back through my files to find the contact in Hong Kong who sent me the horn button/replacement pot lid knobs. Perhaps you could look at some of your local cook ware suppliers for a suitable knob. I am not sure who had the switch plate but once again I will see if I can find something for you. Is that sunshade an internal or external? Below you will see that I have obtained a pair of reproduction tail lamps locally.

Meanwhile Simon the sign-writer has returned the spare wheel cover and the small plate for the front of the car. I am especially pleased as he had some trouble finding a suitable paint for the writing on the fabric cover. In the end he used Tee-shirt paint. Now there should be no doubt as to what the car is. Rather than white on black for the front plate he has continued on with the biscuit on dark brown colour scheme. Rather understated, exactly how I think it should be, discreet and not too "in your face".

"Keep on keeping on"

Bj

Edited December 22, 2012 by oldcar (see edit history)

[Guest donald ellis]

Bernie! The spare tyre cover looks great! I wonder when Packard began making metal covers for rear mounted spares? We like it here (a suburb of Rodchester very much) Both of us had come to hate the summers of heat which could go on for some seven months in drouth years. Kentucky is similar to Oakland, California of which Gertrud Stein famously said "there is no there,there!" I make a rare exception for the Louisville concours which is great! Who now owns your Dixie Flyer? I'm here in retirement and work as a volunteer in the archives of the Museum sorting out and scanning the papers from the Cunningham Automobile company which produced both carriages and beginning in 1907, automobiles here in Rochester.

I suppose that in 1922-23 any bumpers were "after market" but with my car I got what was purportedly an original rear bumper (two piece-three bars) Interestingly the bumper mounts are cast with a Packard number which suggests that they must have anticipated a customer requirement. I have an extra pair of rear mounts should anyone need them. I also have a pair of 1913 Model 48 lamps (without the subsidiary parking lamps as on the Twin Six) I would like to match these with someone in need, The sun shade is external. I have seen them covered in top materiel and in Glass (tinted?) There was a man in Bowling Green who had a very original 126 Coupe that had one and everything but the frame and mounting brackets had perished. The trouble with sourcing these closed car parts, is the relative scarcity of closed to open...the former got cannibalized in favor of the later.

What's your next project to be?

Happy Holidays,

Donald (Ellis)

[oldcar]

Hello Donald

The Dixie Flyer now lives in the main office block of Kentucky Trailer, previously Kentucky Wagon Co now run by the second family to control the concern in 150+years. We were able to take photographs (organised by West Peterson) on the original factory floor where it would have been assembled.

The old factory had been sold to the Louisville University and was due to be demolished only weeks later.

Those wanting to know more or to see some of West's photograph shoot can visit http://forums.aaca.org/f190/dixie-flyer-firefly-speedster-photographs-252653.html There was a series of articles in Antique Automobile during 2009/10.

"Keep on keeping on"

BJ

I will send you an e-mail as time is pressing.

Edited December 22, 2012 by oldcar (see edit history)

[Guest donald ellis]

Ben:

I can believe that the cowl lights I have in photographs of my car "as found" are later production but certainly Packard since their shape mimics the radiator shape. The twin Sixes of the era had those subsidiary lights below the headlamps. Thanks for the input. Where oh where will I ever find a dome light switch (Diamond H)? I still have the windshield wiper motor you sent. I've been trying to match it with one whose mounting ears are not broken off. If you need it back let me know.

Merry Christmas

Donald (Ellis)

[oldcar]

Hello again Donald.

I found my Diamond H interior light switch still attached to the timber frame of my car unfortunately they are one of those things that seem to be thrown away with the rest of the trim when early cars are scrapped. I will ask a couple of people here who tend to have collections on "bits".

I assume you are looking for one like mine. (see photograph)

"Keep on keeping on"

Bj.

Edited December 23, 2012 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

Hello yet again

It is too hot to be working outside at a projected 39 degrees C,

Attached are a couple of new photographs and two second attempts that may be marginally better than the last. Thanks to David McC's excellent Drawing Service I have now constructed a crank handle using the handle section out of the junk box and a short piece of heavy gauge tube from the off cuts. I am pleased to report that it work a treat and has been invaluable in checking the ignition timing. One step closer to "start-up".

"Keep on keeping on"

Bj.

[whtbaron]

I see progress is moving right along.... looking great!

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Bernie, you must be very proud of your accomplishment. It is BEAUTIFUL!!.

Ben

[Landman]

I have to agree with everyone else here, Bernie. The results are spectacular. It reminded me of a photo of my father and his brother holding up their sister with a Packard in the background. It looks just a bit newer than yours, possibly 26 or 27. The Quebec '27 license plate was yellow with black letters, so the photo itself is likely 1927.

[Guest cben09]

OOOPs Nice job on on the details,,,

BUT,,,There is room for accident,,/broken jaw,,,,,etc,,maybee reason Packard redesigned crank??

The spring on the crank stub is rather strong,,

So that when it disengages ,,,,the crank pops off,,AND spins in your hand,,,heres the kicker,,

It will spin and just catch your jaw,,or the headlamp,,

This is not guarenteed,,,but is very possible,,,oooch!!!

Cure,,,Drill small hole in the part opp the crank handle,,in the sleeve,,,,to accept a 1/4"--20tpi

thumb screw,,or small bolt,,,,,Drill deep enough so that screw will go in shallow hole,,so that if its

loose it will still not come off,,,

Will give a great feeling of security,,,,Pass the word/idea,,,its cheep,,

Cheers,,Ben

[Guest donald ellis]

Hello Bernie: Yes that picture and the only one I've seen "in the flesh" in Bowling Green, plus the evidence of the parts book convince me that that's the one I need. It reminds me of household switches of the time, in miniature. When asking electrical supply people about it they only give me a bovine stare which I take to mean they've never seen anything like it.

regards,

Donald

[Guest donald ellis]

Bernie:

Can you tell me anything about the Delage in #1259? Could you tell me about Anthony Bryant? Does he have other early Packard bits? I wonder if he still has the ignition switch plate?

Donald

[TonyAus]

Having collected the proper black rubber case battery yesterday I have made one more step closer to completing the car only to take one step backwards after discovering a small leak in a soldered joint in the vacuum tank so it has had to come off postponing the long awaited "start up' one or two more days. At least I now know that the starter motor is working and the engine is turning OK. Patience is a virtue or so I am reliably informed. To the best of my knowledge there is just the one (two man) company still hand building batteries as there were in the 1920s & 30s here in Victoria Australia.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]168838[/ATTACH]

"Keep on keeping on"

Bj.

Hi Bernie

Can you please give me a contact for the battery makers? A pair of these (two six volts) would look great in my 203.

Thanks in anticipation and merry Christmas

Tony

[oldcar]

Hello Tony

Welcome to my thread. The people you need to contact are Gerald or Neil at Ariel Batteries 660 Smith Street Clifton Hill Victoria. Telephone (03) 9481 5731 Fax (03) 9482 2586.

Donald

I have sent you an e-mail regarding your queries.

David McC or Ozstatesman

Perhaps you know some one in the PACA NSW who could help Donald with a switch.

Merry Christmas & Happy New Year

Bernie J.

Edited December 23, 2012 by oldcar (see edit history)

[DavidMc]

Donald,

I found the dome light switch for my 633 at Hershey after a long search, is it the same as the one for your car? I also found one for a Buick that I had intended to use if I could not find the correct one. It is not identical but its close. I still have it if you decide to compromise on originality.

David

[oldcar]

Hi David

Compliments of the Season.

I think that the Diamond H switch that Donald is looking for is the push on push off variety similar to the one I found among the scraps of trim remaining with my car. I have never seen another quite like it. I have sent an e-mail to Jim Ellis (no relation) to see if he has anything. Perhaps Donald can confirm which type he is looking for.

"Keep on keeping on"

Bj.

[Guest donald ellis]

David:

Many thanks for your trouble. The only 1922 126 I have been able to trust as complete and original is a coupe in Bowling Green, Kentucky. If I can swing it with the electrons I'll put a picture of that dome light switch on. It looks like a miniature version of the old household 2 push button light switches of that era. Thinking that perhaps a electric appliance dealer might have something similar produced only bovine stares.

Donald