Roger Zimmermann Posted October 27, 2011 Author Share Posted October 27, 2011 I'd like to tackle a model myself but wouldn't know where to start .... "don't say the beginning, please!" This is a difficult question. In my opinion, once you decide which vehicle you would like to reproduce and are willing to spend months or years on THIS model, the first thing to do is to gather infos. Depending of the accuracy you would like to achieve, you may be forced to measure yourself the vehicle. It can take days to measure a complete vehicle, so if the car you intend to reproduce is at 1500 miles from home, you may be discouraged!Once you have the datas, (a shop manual is a good help too), begin with the fundations: the frame or underbody, depending of the car. You would not build a house starting with the roof; it's the same with a model. I began this model with the wheels and tires, it was because I had to do the tires on the previous model (the Avanti) and while I had good training I continued. I did then the engine because I had some dimensions and then the frame. Today, I would begin with the frame first because I may have trouble with the engine height: I have the impression that it is too tall. I will now continue with the front suspension, then with the rear one with the diff and drive shaft. At that moment, it will be a driving frame! Then, the floor will be done.When I'm that far, I will do a body probably in wood to either do moulds in polyester or as a pattern to shape panels in metal. I have not yet decided if the body will be brass/cooper or polyester like both which are finished.For the previous models I did a pattern with plaster; I will not use this material with the Mark II as plaster is too brittle.Maybe these lines will be an incentive to start or you will be definitively discouraged! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willys77 Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Well Roger, that was a very, very informative course! Measurements would not be an issue as all I have to do is to go to the shop. What scale would be best? Or would you suggest? I'd probably go with a 1/12 scale like yourself for ease ??? of work. Mainly just body, frame, wheels, tires and interior for now. Other mechanicals could come later, I guess. And I guess for realism, I'd use brass or copper or ??? Something to contemplate! Now if I had only kept the 1957 MONARCH Turnpike Cruiser Four Door Hardtop with the 368 C.I. Lincoln Engine .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted October 28, 2011 Author Share Posted October 28, 2011 The scale you will choose is a personal choice. Some ideas: 1:10 is easy to calculate, but, the larger the model, the more details you have to add to do it in a realistic way. I choose 1:12 probably by accident as the wheels I had when I began the Avanti in 1963 were a good match for this scale. See the crude thing I did at that time when I was 18!As most models from the stores are in 1:18, I would not choose this scale.Cooper is very soft; it's hardly suited for a frame. Brass can be very easely turned, bent etc; this is my metal of choice. Gerald Wingrove do some body parts with copper; I'm not yet convinced that it's the right material for my purpose. Buy a bit from both and see what is best for you!A 1957 Mercury...with its extravagant exterior trim, not easy to duplicate! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willys77 Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Mahalo, Roger! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted October 30, 2011 Author Share Posted October 30, 2011 Before I'm tackling the lower front suspension arms, I finished the starter motor, add a little coat of primer and installed it on the engine. Of course, all those installed parts will be removed for the final paint (When?).The clear spot on the oil pan is where I had an interference with the frame. This spot will be improved in due time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest norbs Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Man, thank you for detail the process, I don't have the craftsmanship to do one of those but it's very interesting to see how you do it. It inspires me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzer3 Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Although it's been said many times many ways. WOW!Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Maine Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 I would not have the patience! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted November 3, 2011 Author Share Posted November 3, 2011 Thank you for your comments! Yes, a lot of patience is required for that, fortunately, it's free!Right now, I have some difficulties do reproduce the plate on which the spring is located. I will have to be imaginative to create a pattern allowing the spring bed to be formed. To better explain, I'm attaching the picture of a REAL lower arm. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweepspear Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Thank you for your comments! Yes, a lot of patience is required for that, fortunately, it's free!Right now, I have some difficulties do reproduce the plate on which the spring is located. I will have to be imaginative to create a pattern allowing the spring bed to be formed. To better explain, I'm attaching the picture of a REAL lower arm.I am confident you will figure something out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted November 3, 2011 Author Share Posted November 3, 2011 I am confident you will figure something out. Yes! I'm on the right way, even if I just discovered that both plates I'm working on are now scrap because too narrow! See, it happens to me too to screw up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted November 6, 2011 Author Share Posted November 6, 2011 Those arms are taking more time as anticipated (sounds familiar!); the shape is odd, nothing is square. Anyway, some progress can be reported as you can see on the attached picture. On the left, one arm is temporary attached together with screws; the other arm is not assembled. On top, there are both parts I cut too narrow and are scrap.What I have to do is the form for the spring's bed; I will try to do it as a pressed part with brass and polyester dies. Maybe... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted November 9, 2011 Author Share Posted November 9, 2011 To continue with the lower lever, I did a form for the spring bed with the intention to press a thin piece of brass between that form and the negative of it in polyester. While the polyester was curing, I began the upper ball joints for the suspension. I checked what I did with the Toronado (I still have all shop drawings), choose the suitable balls and turned the studs for the upper and lower ball joints. This is on the first picture; the lower balls are larger in diameter.The second picture is showing the balls brazed on the studs. On the same picture, there is a spare ball joint I still have for the Toronado.As the polyester would not cure (probably too few droplets of hardener), I continued with the upper cases. This is again a cast part, more complicated to do as a sheet metal case...At first I wanted to do the case as simple as possible, but I realized soon that I could not partially close the case to keep the stud in place. This is the third picture.After doing some special tools, I put some grease into the case, inserted the stud and then I squeezed the case with the tool. This action is bending a little bit the brass around the ball preventing it to go out. The last picture is showing both upper ball loints, lube for life! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Wolk Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 :eek:Incredible, articulating ball joints. My hat's off to you, sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted November 9, 2011 Author Share Posted November 9, 2011 Thank you Barry! There is no other way to have a working suspension! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted November 12, 2011 Author Share Posted November 12, 2011 No! it's my usual disorganized work place, especially when things are going well, like the front lower suspension arms! They will be ready soon; stay tuned! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted November 15, 2011 Author Share Posted November 15, 2011 The lower levers are now more or less ready. Missing are the rubber bumpers (they will be done at a later date) and some holes, as well as the welded nuts for the shock absorbers.The bed for the spring was pressed between two forms, one was in polyester. I was careful not to apply too much force on the vice as I was afraid the polyester would not resist. Indeed, I could do 4 pieces (2 were scrap) and the polyester broke the last time I intended to squeeze a bit more. Some more "tools" were necessary to form the parts; I have the impression they are good for that purpose.The "inner" side is not so good looking as the outside; when the model is completed, the inside of the arms will barely be visible.Now, it's time for the lower ball joints! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luv2Wrench Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 On some days I think it is easier for me to believe that those are giant quarters and keys, not miniature parts created with mind blowing detail. On other days I am firmly convinced that Roger has in fact created a shrinking ray and is just zapping a Mark II down one piece at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted November 16, 2011 Author Share Posted November 16, 2011 ...I am firmly convinced that Roger has in fact created a shrinking ray and is just zapping a Mark II down one piece at a time. You found the trick! However there are difficulties with that system: it's difficult to remove the parts from the car when the owner is there! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Wolk Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 If you like Roger's stuff you'll love this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted November 21, 2011 Author Share Posted November 21, 2011 Thank you Barry for the link; other people gave me the link. Impressive work, but don't hope that I ever will build a functioning engine...After the lower ball joints, it was time to do the spindles. This was a long affair as to see the progress I had to install each spindle on the suspension levers, install the drum/wheel assembly until the camber was right and the distance of the tire to the upper ball joint was more or less the same as the real car (12 X smaller, of course). Then, I had the problem to locate the spindle in relation to the suspension arms; fortunately, a member of the Mark II forum gave me the dimension I asked.The spindles are not the exact replica of the real parts; I had to suit them to the parts already done. Due to the addition of tolerances, the front thread will be 2 till 3 mm wider as calculated; this translate in 2" till 3" on the real car. This is indeed a benefit as I found the wheel too far inwards on the real car.On the pictures there are wood blocks under the frame; they are needed as I don't have yet springsLet's go now on the steering linkage with other ball joints! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PONTIAC1953 Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 with such details in your construction of the continental, i have to keep reminding myself that this a model, and not the actual full size car. roger, you are quite a craftman and artist. charles coker, 1953 pontiac tech advisor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotts_DG8 Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Roger,Step by step to a rolling chassis. I am wondering though that there has to be some sort of backing plates on those spindles. Would I be correct that you either haven't made them as yet or maybe you wouldn't be spending much time on these as they will mostly be hidden and this is why there is no pictures of those? I do still truely enjoy following along and look forward to all those still to come. Scott... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted November 22, 2011 Author Share Posted November 22, 2011 Thank you Charles! This is one of my goals: to create some illusion!To Scott: the backing plates are not yet done. They are, like you wrote, hardly visible, but they are. For the moment, I have too few details to do them and the steering linkage is to be done first.On the rear wheels they will be necessary anyway as, like my two other models, the emergency brake will be functionning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted November 30, 2011 Author Share Posted November 30, 2011 (edited) The logical step after finishing the suspension was to do the steering linkage. When you are looking at the parts, they are all easy and simple...As I had no dimension for them, I had to improvise the best I could, with the help of pictures. I did first the small ball joints with a 2mm ball (about .08") studs and cups. Easy, I have routine!Then came the steering arms; a rather complex part. Fortunately, a drawing into the '57 Lincoln/Continental shop manual supplement was a good help. Then came the tie rods and drag link. At the end, the idler arm was done; an easy looking part but I had no idea how it is constitued. I assume it could not be very different than the ones from Cadillac (which are notoriously undersized), but I could not do a coarse thread and have no play. Therefore, I did something on my own.All in all, I'm satisfied with the steering; maybe it is too fast: 2 turn from lock to lock! This atypical fast steering is the result of the parts I had on stock. There is a little bit of play in the steering box, especially at the worm. Due to the fast ratio, this is very noticeable.I had also to do a universal joint at the inlet of the steering box; by looking at the pictures in the shop manual it seems there is one. Anyway, due to the complicated original construction, a regular flector cannot be installed.On one of the pictures, that universal joint can be seen; it is not yet completely finished.Even if some details are not yet done at the front, I want now to go at the rear of the frame and do the rear axle and suspension. Edited November 30, 2011 by Roger Zimmermann spelling (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Roger...I am continually gobsmacked at the detail and I am getting a sore neck from shaking my head back and forth in disbelief at the quality of your model. You definitely have the touch!! John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landman Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 I wonder what a model like that might be worth once completed. I suppose somewhere akin to the Mona Lisa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted December 1, 2011 Author Share Posted December 1, 2011 John, I'm sorry about your sore neck. At the next pictures, try to shake it from left to right!Pat: value? Certainly more than a Franklin Mint model just for the raw material I'm using to build it. As much as Mona Lisa? Certainly not, but who and how came the value of that painting? The raw material used for it was probably not very important...Anyway, values of such things are always totally subjective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest longman Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Time to tell the truth Roger. This is a real Continental and you've spent all your time manufacturing giant coins for the photos!. Nice trick! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted December 1, 2011 Author Share Posted December 1, 2011 Time to tell the truth Roger. This is a real Continental and you've spent all your time manufacturing giant coins for the photos!. Nice trick!Pssss...Don't tell it to the others! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted December 8, 2011 Author Share Posted December 8, 2011 The rear axle is again one of those castings I hate/love. How to begin? The first step was to determine the offset of the pinion and the distance of that pinion in relation to the wheel's axles. According to some literature, the distance between both axles is .2 to .25 times the diameter of the ring gear. When those dimensions were set, I began with the pinion tube and the axle shafts tube, adjusted both in relation to each other and hard soldered them as you can see at the first pictures. Prior to that, I did already the easy parts: axle shafts and axles tubes. They come in "action" later, of course.Then I began to shape the diff with flat brass and soldered them together to the skeleton. I don't know how many small bits of brass were needed to construct the diff as it is now, many is what I remember! Each part added to the skeleton is in precarious equilibrium until it's soldered, therefore most of the time just one can be brazed, sometimes two. Then the next bit is cut, adjusted, soldered, etc. The last pictures are showing the differential the way it was with the last hard soldering. Now all missing elements will be soft soldered. Finally, the end cover will be done. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted December 11, 2011 Author Share Posted December 11, 2011 Not yet finished and already needed a repair? Well, when I hard soldered the front supports for the rear springs I had my mind at another place. Yesterday, I was ready to solder the spring's locating plates to the rear axles. I needed the exact location, took my older frame's sketch. The distance between the front spring's supports was absolutely not in line with the measures I wrote down on my plan. I could measure the way I wanted, 2.5 mm (0.1") were missing. Boy, what a frustration!I'm sure nobody would have noticed, but I could not let the frame that way. I removed the RH support (as the supports are brazed, the only way to remove them is to grind them) and fabricated 2 new supports. Today, I installed the removed support and, in retrospect, I was lucky to remove the "right" one: it was this one which was out of line; the LH one is 0.4 mm nearer from the center as planed, too little to warrant an heavy surgery.Now, I have a spare part in stock... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted December 14, 2011 Author Share Posted December 14, 2011 As you can see on the pictures, the rear axle is now ready. Missing are the brake shields; they will come later as I don't have enough data to do them now. The end cover will get more screws; they will be added during final assembly.The next few days will be devoted to the rear spring hangers and the material to do the springs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted December 16, 2011 Author Share Posted December 16, 2011 Since I began the frame, the rear spring's hangers were a concern. I cannot do them in brass, the material is too weak for the task. Sure, by using a thick bit of brass there will be no problem, but that thickness will be out of proportion. Stainless steel? It's strong, and here, I will have problem with my drilling bits as the material is not kind with them.As I was searching for a suitable material, I came across a broken hacksaw blade. Bingo! It is not too thick and obviously strong enough. Of course, I had to heat it to remove the hardening. The sole question was if the steel would be soft enough to let form the eye without breaking?The first attempt was positive, although I saw one or two tiny cracks. The steel was also soft enough to be drilled, but strong enough for the task.The next problem was the shackle. On Continentals it is like a "U" with bushings screwed into the hanger and spring. I had to do it differently. Of course, brass is again the wrong metal as one end is staying open. In my shop, I would certainly have some iron wire of the proper diameter, but I had no envy to drive one hour just for 50 mm of wire!Finally, I found "Pop-rivets" I had in a box since certainly 30 years (why I had them, no idea, I don't have the tool...) I noticed that the steel shaft is hardened; it probably the most valuable part of those rivets and it gets discarded!The diameter was not exactly what I was looking for; a little machining did the trick. I did some examples without machining first, to evaluate the process. At the end, the result is quite satisfying. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxhole Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 When I see your work it makes me realize how much harder reproducing parts would be if working in your scale. I sure am glad i get to work in full scale, I think your model consumes ten times the hours. Absolutely brilliant, I have been coming home from work for the last few days and reading your build in detail from one end to the other instead of updating my own build thread. It is absolutely captivating; it has kept me up past midnight three nights in a row.-Do you work strictly from measurements? -I know I work a lot from templates when reproducing full size parts. Do you ever take templates and scan and shrink them or make your own from the measurements? -I can only imagine what the lay out process must be like when scaled to this point. Do you have tiny Machinist squares and divider tools?-We use quite a bit of aluminum in reproducing some parts as it machines nicely and is much cheaper and lighter than brass or copper and one can select from all sorts of different grades to utilize different properties. I noticed you don't use any. is it just personal preference or are their technical reasons?Watching your work has inspired me and given me ideas on ways to reproduce some items for the restorations, thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted December 17, 2011 Author Share Posted December 17, 2011 When I see your work it makes me realize how much harder reproducing parts would be if working in your scale. I sure am glad i get to work in full scale, I think your model consumes ten times the hours. Absolutely brilliant, I have been coming home from work for the last few days and reading your build in detail from one end to the other instead of updating my own build thread. It is absolutely captivating; it has kept me up past midnight three nights in a row.-Do you work strictly from measurements? -I know I work a lot from templates when reproducing full size parts. Do you ever take templates and scan and shrink them or make your own from the measurements? -I can only imagine what the lay out process must be like when scaled to this point. Do you have tiny Machinist squares and divider tools?-We use quite a bit of aluminum in reproducing some parts as it machines nicely and is much cheaper and lighter than brass or copper and one can select from all sorts of different grades to utilize different properties. I noticed you don't use any. is it just personal preference or are their technical reasons?Watching your work has inspired me and given me ideas on ways to reproduce some items for the restorations, thank you.I'm really sorry if you went so late to bed!Thank you for your comments and remarks; I will try to answer your questions as far as my English allows it...Yes, I'm working almost only from measures and, of course, pictures (which are dangerous as usually there is some irregular stretching due to the lens of the camera). From one member of the Mark II forum, I got about 70 ot 80 pages from original blueprints. The drawings are only showing dome details, but they were great for the dimension of the frame (section and spacing of the side members). They will be useful for the body as some measures cannot be taken, especially when there is no space around the original vehicle.When I did the Toronado, I had the good fortune to get original drawins for the frame and the floor. The only problem I had was to find a space large enough to unfold the frame's drawing, scale 1:1!Templates are not possible except for body parts; I will certainly use that technique for the side window aperture, like I did on the Toronado 40 years ago (!). Then I have my own method to scale it down. A pantograph would be a fine tool, but I have no space for that. Remember, all is done in a flat's room!You are right, I don't use aluminum. I cannot weld it, so it's for me useless. I don't like to work with it either: on the lathe, it's doing very long chips. Paint adhesion is also specific for that metal. Yes, brass is heavier and more expensive; I spent about $ 200.00 for brass and some more for brazing rods and paste, but all that for a construction span of 10 years, it gives a very small amount for each year...You did a small piece lately; I will do some comments about it in your thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted December 19, 2011 Author Share Posted December 19, 2011 This week-end, I could temporary install the rear axle on the car as the rear springs were done. However, I may replace them: the spring steel I used is a bit too thick and, for the moment, there is just one leaf each side, like Novas and Toronados had in the past. If I'm adding 7 other leafs with the same material, the suspension will be too stiff!As I have no idea regarding the weight when completed, I'm keeping for the moment the rear suspension as is; if I have to do new springs it will just add a couple hours to the project, not a big deal.What next? The drive shaft is in the pipe-line! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest straight shooter Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Roger, I have been following your project from the very beginning. I just became a forum member and had to post about how spectacular your work truly is. It always amazes me the amount of time, detail, and precision that you put into your models. Good luck to you and your project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share Posted December 21, 2011 Roger, I have been following your project from the very beginning. I just became a forum member and had to post about how spectacular your work truly is. It always amazes me the amount of time, detail, and precision that you put into your models. Good luck to you and your project.Thank you straight shooter for your comments and doing your first post to this thread!Have a prosperous year 2012! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 Roger,I continue to be speechless on your skill level and detail. It is so beyond my abilities that all I can say is you are a true artist.Also, Merry Christmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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