BCA National

[Booreatta]

Ok ladies and gentlemen the bell is ringing. The chapter or Division that signs the most new members by March 1st is the winner of the contest for the Nationals cookout. I know that a lot of people are not a member of the BCA on this forum, but the Reatta Division needs to lead the way. We have come a long way and at the last count we have 20 something new members. If you have any plans to join the BCA I would DO IT NOW. We are one of the stongest division and we need to prove it. Please sign up now and plan to attend the National in Ames, It will be a great time. Remember it is not the cars as much as it is the people in the BCA that will keep it growing.

Think Spring

:confused:Chuck

[Barney Eaton]

Being part of the Reatta Division is one way to become part of the Reatta hobby.

I know there are people that would join if they did not need to belong to the BCA. It has been explained many times and it may need to be done again. However if it were not for the BCA, the Reatta Div would be a stand alone club that would not have the support of the larger club, which puts on a great national meet each year, of which we are very active.

Also, belonging to the BCA allows you to take your Reatta to any BCA sanctioned event around the country and show your car. You also have the option of joining local BCA chapters that put on their own shows and have activities each month. There are many Reatta owners that have old Buicks and have discovered the joy, and pleasure of driving a modern, air conditioned Buick to shows and on tour.

As the need arises, the Reatta division may sponsor obtaining hard to find parts. I don't think it is their intent to interfere with vendors, but if there is no other way to get parts, that could be one of their missions.(my opinion)

The Reatta division is the fastest growing division of the BCA and Reatta owners are about 8-10% of the new BCA members each month.

Go to the official Reatta web site for more information and membership forms Reatta Division of the Buick Club of America

[Ronnie]

Barney, not to be argumentative but what you describe is the very reason a lot of us have no interest in joining the the BCA. Even from your description, everything revolves around car shows, judging cars and deducting points for imperfections. I'm guessing that a majority of Reatta owners don't have show quality cars. Why would we want to be part of an organization that focuses on criticizing our cars and charges us to do it.

My Reatta, like the average Reatta, does not stand a chance of winning a car show against cars belonging to a handful of people who have the resources to buy an extremely low mileage car, in near perfect condition, with the intent of winning all the car shows. Why would I want to contribute money to put on the show and buy the trophies that I don't stand a chance to win?

I'm not saying the BCA or Reatta division is a bad thing. I'm just saying the BCA appears to cater more to the few than to the masses.

I've heard all the reasons why the Reatta Division can't be a stand alone club but it is my opinion that it would be a better club for the average Reatta owner if it was.

[Guest steveskyhawk]

I second Ronnie's opinion. Ames Iowa? Was BFE overbooked? How about a meet with peer judging and in a place with nice weather?

[Bushwack]

I'll chime in and agree with Steve and Ronnie.

I prefer patronizing events such as the one coming this June in L.A. (buick club los angeles). 500..600+ cars of every GM make (and even those not GM) that are well maintained, pride-of-ownership cars but may have a couple stone chips or just wear-and-tear issues that would be shunned by an award-given event. Yes, they give out awards but that is far from the focus of this event.

Steve...hope to see you there this June!

Thoughts coming from a BCA and local chapter member for the sole purpose of patronizing those who support all that is Reatta.

[reattadudes]

some food for thought; let's compare the Reatta club with another similar car that was out at the same time, the Chrysler TC Maserati.

Reatta production: (1988-1991), 21,763

Chrysler TC Maserati production: (1989-1991) 6,320

present vehicle population (est):

Reatta: 18,000 (US and Canada registered vehicles only) does not include brand new Reattas (est 400), and Reattas outside the US and Canada (est 700).

Chrysler TC Maserati present vehicle population: 3,300

Reatta club membership: approx. 400

Chrysler TC Maserati club membership: 2,700

let's recap:

3,300 Chrysler TCs on the road, and 2700 members in the club. (81%)

18,000 Reattas on the road (US and Canada), and 400 members in the club. (2.2%)

that's 81% versus 2.2%.

why?

-could it be that many Reatta owners see no reason to also belong to the Buick club, too?

-could it be that owners take no interest whatsoever in silly "400 point judging" that only creates animosity, instead of creating a fun atmosphere?

-what qualifications do the judges have? did they work on the Reatta project? GM? have they had hundreds of Reattas of their own that allowed them to have years of knowledge from taking apart these cars with their two hands? are the judges open to the many variations of Reattas, or do they consistently refuse to acknowledge these variations? cloth convertible tops, anyone?

-could it be that many Reatta owners have taken the time to drive hundreds (or many thousands) of miles to the event, only to be told in a meeting before the show "why the wouldn't be winning anything"? would you go back?

-could it be that many owners of Reattas who have spent tens of thousands of dollars on their cars are turned away from the show, because their car is not "box stock", no matter the quality of the work?

-and probably the most glaring issue: why do results of the judging not come in the same day? do they want no witnesses? we've not talking about judging 600 cars here, but perhaps 50!

I've been in the car hobby my entire adult life, just like many of you have. has a single one of you ever been to a weekend car show event that does not have a Saturday night awards banquet?

I didn't think so.

I never go to "400 point judging events" unless I have a strong desire to see grown men act like there is an after-school fight. isn't this supposed to be a fun event, or should it strictly be testosterone-fueled? is this the time for judges to settle scores with folks they don't like?

I could go on and on, but I'm going to stop here, with the one last thought.

I keep notes on a lot of things. I found a list of customers who called me after they went to a Reatta club event. the minimum mileage driven to the event was 660 miles; some were over 1,800. 32 people in total.

not a single one would ever go back.

81% versus 2.2%.

do we make the events fun, have "people's choice" judging, or do we continue down the same rigid, "I'm right, you're wrong" path, and watch club membership sink even further?

over and out.

Mike Rukavina

buickreattaparts.com

[padgett]

I belong to one marque club that has (today) 294 members for 587 vehicles built from 1986 to 1989. That is just over 50% and represents the total number built by the manufacturer, not just one model or what remain (very few have been scrapped)

Further, no one seems to know just what "stock" is even though there were very few options which would tend to make 400 point judging difficult (factory tended to slipstrean changes with only occasional notification.

So numbers really do not mean very much, the level of participation is much more important.

[wws944]

Who is forcing anyone to get their car 'judged' in any event? If you don't want someone else's opinion, don't ask for it.

The main thing is to have fun and talk All Things Buick with other like-minded individuals. Take a nice tour through the countryside. Maybe hear someone from Buick talk about their latest stuff. See some nice historical cars. Watch the GS guys burn their tires off at the local track. Etc. Often some of the most interesting cars at shows are in the parking lot - not in the show itself.

On the BCA, I doubt if many Buick owners even know there is a BCA. Do any Buick dealers give discounts on parts and service to BCA members? If not, maybe it is an opportunity. (This is commonly the case in the Porsche community for PCA members. Can offset the cost of PCA membership by a considerable amount.)

I suppose I should join the BCA - now that I know about it...

Edited February 19, 2010 by wws944
Embellish a tad. (see edit history)

[Booreatta]

Ok guys I am going to take the higher road.

The BCA and the Reatta Division is about people, and has very little to do with cars. There is no reason that you need to have your car judged if you don't want to. Why does this subject keep being kicked around. I give up. If you don't want and don't like the 400 point system, show your car in the display like some members do. There is also the modified division and there are a lot of great cars shown there. We are not a bunch of guys that buy cars from the big auction houses but a bunch of guy who like 2 things.1 The Reatta is a great little car and 2 there are a bunch of great guys in the club that enjoy getting together and having a few beers and a few laughs. The fact that some people don't have the money or what ever is just a crutch and a reason to not join or criticize those of us who spend hours making a difference in our club. Regardless if you are a member or not, it doesn't give you the right to put the club down. There is nothing to prevent anybody from having a good time except yourselves.

The bottom line, the Reatta club is a fun club and will continue to grow with or with out our critics. For all who want to join now is the time. For all who don't want to join there is nothing to be said or done

My only reason for making my first post is to let the members know that we want and will win the contest for membership and make the BCA President cook us lunch. For the life of me I dont know how the 400 point system got involved in winning a contest.

Lets all take the higher road, and respect each other. I cant say that I agree with everyone here but I do respect you.

I know lots of people that spend their own time and money making life a little more enjoyable

Again its about people and its only a car......

Thanks

Chuck Kerls

Booreatta@cox.net,

[Vincent Vega]

The BCA judging takes place on Friday. Saturday has been dubbed an "All Iowa open car show". All makes and models are allowed.

[raleets]

Howdy all,

Might as well toss my opinion on the pile, so here goes.

Thanks to being a 24-year member of the BCA, my wife and I have met hundreds and hundreds of wonderful people from one end of the United States to the other. How was this possible? Simple. By attending National Meets over the years.

Notice I emphasized people because, in my opinion, it's the people that are the stars of the show, NOT the cars! Thanks to joining the BCA, and bouncing around the country to the National Meets, we've made tons of friends from coast to coast. With few exceptions I can't tell you what make or year Buick they drive and show. But, we can easily remember where they're from and how nice they are to share breakfast, lunch, or a cold beer!

I also agree with other posters about skipping the judging if it's not your thing. As a former Board of Directors member, I can assure you nobody is forcing you to have your car(s) judged. It's perfectly OK to sit under a shade tree and shoot the breeze while the "stressful" judging takes place.

I'm not positive, but I think it was the National Meet in St. Louis when the Reattas were first judged. I didn't own one at the time, but thought they were ultra-cool and was glad so many were on-site. All the owners were a giddy bunch too.

So, dear friends, take a chill-pill, relax, and enjoy the hobby for what it's intended to be - fun!!

Cheers,

Bob Leets

[Guest steveskyhawk]

Chuck and others,

Please reread Ronnie and Mike's posts.

If you want the size of the club to increase you must give up this tone deaf attitude you are displaying now. Look at your numbers as Mike pointed out. Ask yourself why aren't people joining.

I am sure that there are some nice people in the club as there are everywhere.

Nobody answered my question why Ames Iowa? I would understand a John Deer club event there. (It was 78 degrees here yesterday by the way) Spring has sprung! Why not have the event where the weather is nice? Politics?

Now for the elephant in the room. I WONT JOIN AN ORGANIZATION WHERE THE SO CALLED "OFFICIALS" EXPLOIT THEIR POSITION, THE CLUB, AND THIS FORUM FOR PERSONAL FINANCIAL GAIN.

Many of the lurkers of this forum have figured the same thing out that I have. Closed minded people have created an atmosphere of exclusion.

One last thought on the sophomoric 400 point judging system. If somebody showed up with a green 91 convertible with a cloth top would the judges then believe it exists or consult the unofficial, unverified database? So much for experts.

When the club elects "experts" that have no personal agenda I will then join.

[Vincent Vega]

Nobody answered my question why Ames Iowa? I would understand a John Deer club event there. (It was 78 degrees here yesterday by the way) Spring has sprung! Why not have the event where the weather is nice? Politics?

It's a sponsoring chapter thing. The event is in July. Weather won't be an issue. You just like stirring things up. We get it, we get it everytime the BCA topic comes up. You don't like it. Then, you throw in a stupid comment like this. Move along.

[Guest steveskyhawk]

Are you one of the "nice people" that will be in Ames?

I would never call anyone stupid. Thanks for making my point.

[Guest BJM]

Nobody answered my question why Ames Iowa? I would understand a John Deer club event there. (It was 78 degrees here yesterday by the way) Spring has sprung! Why not have the event where the weather is nice? Politics?

QUOTE]

Steve,

Obviously, I take offense at your notion of why Iowa? I could give you a list of reasons but that's only for reasonable people, which you are not.

You make so many errors of thought it's hard to know where to start and clearly was written with emotion and titillation in mind, not for the reason of furthering understanding.

It might be nice where you are now but will probably be unbearable HOT this summer. Iowa will be moderate in July. If we want our national meets - or an independent Reatta Club National meet in February, I am sure it would be in Florida, Texas or SoCal.

A BCA National meet needs to try and meet a lot of people's expectations in a National Meet. I am organizing the Pre War Division after tour. You are invitied but clearly the pre war Division has a different pace shall we say.

I don't own a pre World War II Buick. It's an inclusive club. Many cars show up at the National meet that are never judged.

The 400 point judging has merit - as mentioned in other BCA posts - because we are stewards of the Buick automobile. We need a certain percentage of all Buicks to remain stock to show what people what a Reatta was 50 or 75 years from now.

But it's an optional opportunity at a BCA National, not mandatory. I brought a 64 LeSabre convertible to the Buick National meet in St Louis in 1998 that had in-bred mice bailing out of it at the drive-in. No back seat.

As for events in mid Iowa at the National meet, we have plenty that cater to the audience, such as a train ride on a restored track that goes over a scenic river valley, drive in cruise, good food and the multi club show on Saturday.

Many of the issues the original negative posters posted about have been addressed - judging on Friday, no judging on Saturday.

BCA Nationals are - inmy opinion - best held in smaller locales not big hot concrete parking lots of major city locations.

YOU guys had a choice shaded spot at the BCA National meet in Rochester, Minnesota and although I was not a Reatta Div member I met a lot of good people at that meet and very surely noted a beer toting, glad handing attitude that seperated Reatta owners from the others.

Driving to this National ought to be a pleasure. As the snow clears I will offer a Lincoln Highway primer - the Lincoln Highway is even older then Route 66 and some neat sights along the way.

We have the Amana colonies which are a nice trip enroute. On and on. Our ice cream tastes just as good as other parts of the country and our beer is made local and heartly (There is a nice micro brewary in Ames)

The motels you will stay in will rival any other possible BCA destination. And when it's time to get out of town, boom, you are on a major interestate with light summer traffic in 5 minutes.

The event is not about 400 point judging OK. That's just a piece to the puzzle.

If you are so hot to start a seperate Reatta club nobody is stopping you. The GS folks and the Riviera folks have a seperate club. But it only makes sense to piggyback on the BCA for national and regionals, get a nice magazine and use it as an opportunity to network.

You don't sound like you care about any other Buick except the Reatta and that's fine. I own a 50 Roadmaster, a 66 Gran Sport, a 72 Centurion, an 88 T Type Lesabre and am looking to buy 1-2 88-91 Reattas - one as restoration project and one as a nice driver.

[Guest BJM]

Chuck and others,

Now for the elephant in the room. I WONT JOIN AN ORGANIZATION WHERE THE SO CALLED "OFFICIALS" EXPLOIT THEIR POSITION, THE CLUB, AND THIS FORUM FOR PERSONAL FINANCIAL GAIN.

When the club elects "experts" that have no personal agenda I will then join.

Please be specific and quit communicating in this manner.

[Guest BJM]

One last thought on the sophomoric 400 point judging system. If somebody showed up with a green 91 convertible with a cloth top would the judges then believe it exists or consult the unofficial, unverified database? So much for experts.

When the club elects "experts" that have no personal agenda I will then join.

Steve,

It appears we need you and others with a high regard for the Reatta to actually get involved, judge and write the Reatta judging manual. Criticising from the sidelines doesn't help. Agree or disagree?

[Booreatta]

Steve I respect your comments but I take issue with some of them.

First let me address Why Ames Iowa? They submitted a bid to the BCA board and were accepted for this years national. The Reatta club has nothing to do with that. You can do the same thing in your state if you want to submit a bid for a national then I am sure that some one could say Why California? AND THE BEAT GOES ON.

Your comment that you wont join an organization where the "so called officals exploit their position in the club and forum for personal gain.....Where does this come from. As the director of the Reatta Division which is an elected position is open every year for re-election and is again open this year, can I put your name in as a candidate? I will gladly step aside. I have never advertised product or parts for sale on a daily basis for profit or anything else. I have from time to time sold something that I have had and no longer have a need for, but as you said and I quote" ANY BODY LOOKING FOR SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA CAR OR PARTS, FEEL FREE TO CONTACT ME. RUST FREE CARS HERE." I personally think that this is a good service but you are exploiting the forum for personal gain daily

You made a comment that Mike has said that the club is not growing, that simply is not the case. The Reatta division is the fastest growing division in the BCA and I guess the numbers will have to stand on their own.

The comment about the Polo Green convertible is this. I think it is only a car, if the person driving it is a nice person then it wont matter if it is green or not.

I take exception to your comment about closed minded people have created an atmosphere of exclusion. I am retired and on a fixed income but I would like to include you in our club. I am personally inviting you and your family to join the BCA and the Reatta Division and I will write a check to Ed Farnell who is the Treasurer of the Reatta club for your first year membereship, which is $60.00 and we will meet in Ames Iowa.

I am not going to make any more comments about this subject, and I hope that you underestand I have no personal agenda and I hope you live up to your word and join.

The ball in in your court. I can be reached by email or phone at 316-655-1099

Chuck Kerls

Reatta Division Director

By the way I have done business with Mike and will continue to do so when I need something.

[Ronnie]

Ok guys I am going to take the higher road.

As the Director for the Reatta Division it is you job to promote the club and I would expect no different.

I would like to be a member of a club but the BCA has nothing for me at this time and the Reatta division just wants to ride on their coat tails. In my last post I was trying to point out the reasons the club is not designed with people like me in mind. You are so deep in the status quo of the clubs that you take offense to anyone who suggests there is a problem or that improvements could be made.

I have no doubt that every member of the BCA and the Reatta Division are great guys. I think every person on this forum are great guys (and gals) and I respect each and everyone of them. That doesn't mean that I have no right to express my views on Buick and Reatta clubs here. You say, "Regardless if you are a member or not, it doesn't give you the right to put the club down." I can't speak for others but I was not putting the club down by offering some constructive criticism of how it functions.

I would never discourage anyone from joining the clubs. I was expressing the reasons why I don't join in hopes that maybe someone would take note and maybe consider making some changes that would make the clubs more desirable. It is apparent by your posts that you are completely inflexible to considering changes. Instead of having an open mind you want to defend the status quo tooth and nail.

You seem to take the stance of, 'you are for us or you are against us', and that is simply not the case as far as I'm concerned. I think all members of this forum should take offense to you saying, "For all who don't want to join there is nothing to be said or done." You seem to be implying that if we don't want to be members we should keep our mouths shut. I thought this forum was for open discussion of all Reatta related discussions as long as we are civil. Your words seem to suggest discussion of the clubs are off limits unless it is something positive about joining the clubs. There are two sides to every story and I think they should both be told. You have no right to try to suppress our views about the clubs even if you are the Director of the Reatta division.

Edited February 19, 2010 by Ronnie (see edit history)

[Guest steveskyhawk]

WOW, you guys aren't answering any questions and demonstrating the hate and discontent I object to. According to BJM I'm not a "reasonable" person now. By the way Jake the temperature in the summer here is a little warmer (Mediterranean) than Iowa but without the humidity, thunderstorms and mosquitoes.

Over 90% of Reatta owners do NOT belong to your club. You are now aware of my reasons. It is not and was never my intention to insult or offend any of the nice people in the club. My only intention is to expose the problems of membership as I see them.

Most people understand my thoughts and the low membership statistics prove me out. Hasn't anybody noticed the same 5 people make up 90% of the posts on this forum. There are many more people that read it however. I was never one to "drink the Koolaid". Once again if you don't like the message don't shoot the messenger.

Chuck, Thanks for the offer but i don't need your money. Good luck with your club. Maybe you can weed out the dinosaurs.

My offer still stand to do a pretrip pre buy on a corrosion free California Car to anybody that wants to buy a car local to me. There are lots of nice Reattas here.

[Vincent Vega]

I answered your question. I didn't call you stupid. I said your comment was stupid. Don't twist my words. We get it. You don't like the BCA. Move along.

[Guest BJM]

WOW, you guys aren't answering any questions and demonstrating the hate and discontent I object to. According to BJM I'm not a "reasonable" person now. By the way Jake the temperature in the summer here is a little warmer (Mediterranean) than Iowa but without the humidity, thunderstorms and mosquitoes.

Over 90% of Reatta owners do NOT belong to your club. You are now aware of my reasons. It is not and was never my intention to insult or offend any of the nice people in the club. My only intention is to expose the problems of membership as I see them.

Steve,

I appreciate the clarification and respect your reasons for not joining the BCA / Reatta Division. Sometimes there is just a difference of belief and interests and I really don't believe further comment makes a difference. I don't mean that with any sarcasm really. Clubs aren't for everyone.

I do know this forum is well attended and have never dived into the statistics. I would bet the numbers of posters 'v' watchers is about the same as other forums on this AACA sponsored site.

Thanks again for your comments.

[raleets]

Steve,

It's abundantly obvious you don't (for many reasons) like the BCA and the Reatta Division of same.

Thank the Lord we, as adults, can make these choices.

Seems to me the simple choice for you is to permanently jump off this forum and leave it to the folks who do like the BCA.

And, from someone who was born and raised in the great Midwest, I'm happy you're happy in California. Seems like a good place for you to stay!

Happy motoring,

Bob Leets

Flint, MICHIGAN

[DAVES89]

I nominate Steve for Reatta division president and he can weed out Barney, Jim, George, Chuck, and anyone else that he doesn't like. And then he can nominate Mike to be his vice president.

Their first order of business is to look for that holy grail polo green '91 vert that only three people care about, Mike and Steve that it was made and Barney who says it doesn't exist, as he has looked at the info he has [flawed as it may be].

The best part is that then BOTH Mike and Steve could /would stop selling parts [can't have them making money off us] and they could organize Reatta only shows with different judging criteria so that everyone would have no reason not to join up. The shows will be held in So Cal or Arizona, so that the Grand Pubas won't have far to travel and us peasants won't mind traveling to the Holy Shrine.

Of course then the mythical Polo Green Reatta will then show up and everthing will be grand.

No one will complain and we will have this neat Reatta site that everyone will be able to come to for free and share both information and experiences [ wait we have that already].

Seriously I joined the BCA and the Reatta club as a sign of appreciation for the info I get of this site. I have gone to one National and that was in Flint last year. It was worth every penny to meet some of the people I got to know thru this forum. There was NO judging last year, but there was a lot of guys eyeballing other cars and swapping info. If that is wrong then I guess yes the BCA and the Reatta club is wrong for you.

BTW the car judged best of show at Flint by the Host Hotel was the "Bumblebee Reatta".

[Guest steveskyhawk]

Bob,

For the record I was "born and raised" in a failing factory town in upstate New York which had a terrible climate just as the Midwest has. I made a conscious and objective decision to leave the misery behind and choose a place to live that had a nice climate. Being "born and raised" somewhere is not a conscious decision and certainly not a good reason to live somewhere. Likewise not a good reason to have a car show there. It just happens to be a place that you haven't left. Choosing a place with a high probability of perfect weather would be an objective decision. Just a thought.

Dave,

Please don't buy any parts from me. I find about one corrosion free Reatta in the wrecking yards a month and use most of the parts for my own cars. The extras I keep in inventory for myself and the extra extras I sell when I can. ( I have had 7 cars of my own) I drive hundreds of miles and spend a lot of time on my hobby part of which is finding parts. Unless you consider my time and efforts worthless, I have never made a dime from parts sales weather you believe it or not and I really don't care what you think. The desert southwest has the most plentiful supply of good used parts in the country and if you prefer something else so be it.

My apologies to the BCA and the Reatta division. I have nothing against the club or its members. I just don't like to see you and the club exploited by some of the club's principals. I am on you side yet I refuse to apologize for living where the weather is nice.

[wws944]

Dragging this massive thread drift back to the original topic...

Ok ladies and gentlemen the bell is ringing. The chapter or Division that signs the most new members by March 1st is the winner of the contest for the Nationals cookout...

Ok Chuck, I just joined the BCA via the on-line web page. How do I ensure that the Reatta Division gets credit for it? Just mail in the paper application for the Reatta Division?

As a suggestion, it would be helpful to be able to join the Reatta Division on the same on-line form as the main BCA dues.

[reattadudes]

oh, this is just rich, and keeps getting richer.

of course, the real elephant in the room is the fact that 97.8% of all Reatta owners in the US and Canada aren't Reatta club and BCA members.

it appears that this is just ducky with many of the folks here; who needs new members? talk about fiddling while Rome burns! ANY car club that dosn't have a strong outreach to new members (and that includes cars with 18" wheels and black or chrome valve stem caps) is absolutely doomed to failure. it doesn't make a bit of difference what they've done with the car; the most important thing is they HAVE an interest in the car!

I'll begin by addressing Padgett's comments about the fact that it doesn't matter how many members a club has, but how active it is.

how very true.

perhaps some of the Reatta club members should check out the Allante and Chrysler TC Maserati sites; they would see what a very ACTIVE club really does! they don't wait for one event per year, but have actual active CHAPTERS (horrors!) that do events all year long. by the way, both clubs have only "people's choice" judging. there are things going on every month, all year long.

neither club has any connection with their respective parent marque (Walter P. Chrysler ((WPC)) for Chryslers, or the Cadillac/LaSalle club for the Allante). why does the Reatta club need any affiliation with the BCA? why do Reatta national events have anything to do with BCA events? far less than 10% of my customers have another collector Buick, period. I have far more customers that have TCs and Allantes than another collector Buick, so why the BCA affiliation?

what's very interesting are some of the events these other clubs have. for example, the TC club had a meet in Indianapolis, and club members got to drive their cars on the acutal Indy Speedway. that doesn't sound like fun, does it?

and speaking of TC events, let me talk about how they work. first of all, most events bring in 40-70 cars from all over...and from a group that has a vehicle population that is only 1/6 the size of the Reatta population! how many Reattas show up for the Nationals?

there was a TC event in Tucson, Arizona, I attended two years ago. half of the people were from east of the Mississippi River. there were several sightseeing trips, and the weekend ended with an awards banquet. guess what folks: it was people's choice, and the awards were given out that night, NOT results two weeks later.

they run events just like I have; IN-clude people (and awards) as much as possible, they don't EX-clude people by having very few awards that are not given in front of the attendants, or make people feel their car is not good enough. this is quite counterproductive, don't you think?

they had awards for the most original car, the person who came the furthest, earliest build car, the latest build car, the best modified car, the person who came to the most events, the car with the most potential (horrors! it was even parked with the others!), they gave out many more awards than just first, second, and third place, with the object being to IN-clude as many people as possible. there were new TC owners with a car that needed a lot of work that had tears in their eyes when they won the "most potential" award. do you think this inspired them to work on their car and come back next year? IN-clude, IN-clude.

I went to one mixed make show myself in Texas where I took home a diner-style napkin holder for my 1977 AMC Pacer X. I was elated. the next year, I took my 1978 AMC Matador Barcelona to the same show, and took best of show. quite honestly, the napkin holder was just as good as that big award. it was just so much fun to be here!

in contrast, I took a then new 1993 Allante (one of the first 1993s that were the Indy Pace Car replicas) I had to a Cadillac National show; I couldn't have been treated worse. ditto for being foolish enough to take my then new 1990 4 door Avanti to a Studebaker show, with the same result. sometimes you have to learn things like this, and avoid shows where you are made to not feel included or welcome.

I can only laugh when I see the negative comments leveled at Steve Scott and myself. the one thing that humors me the most is the fact that both messengers are truly being shot. instead of looking at the constructive criticism being presented (like the fact that the Reatta membership is pathetically low, and there must be a reason), it's just easier to trash us. we like our 2.2% membership, now go away!!

Steve gets trashed for offering to look at cars for other members. why? I've known Steve to drive over 200 miles one-way to look at a car a forum member (or lurker) is interested in, and refusing to accept a single cent. he's done that numerous times. how many others here would do the same thing, or would their "meter be running"?

we get trashed for talking about any possible variation other than the rigid party line that is toed by our "database keeper". I've already discussed my experiences in Flint back in 2003 when I was told, "I'll show you up for what liars you are" by the "database keeper" that was witnessed by two other forum members here.

..and what horrible thing did I do? I had the nerve to suggest that there were Reatta convertibles that were built at the Craft Centre that had cloth tops, and our "database keeper" said they didn't exist because he hadn't seen one!

and how did that meeting turn out?

well, the last guy to speak, a Craft Centre trim line employee, got out a scrapbook with photos of newly completed Reatta convertibles. "here's a silver one with a blue cloth top, a red one with a tan cloth top, another silver one with a red cloth top...". it's rather funny that now the cloth tops are "suddenly" no longer an issue (I have an orignal cloth top car in my garage now), yet all I took was ridicule for the mere suggestion of such a thing! I could give quite a few more examples, but I covered those in a previous post. or perhaps someone was around at the meet in Colorado Springs last year, and saw the '89 sapphire blue/saddle coupe (horrors! this can't exist!), and what the "keeper" put the car's owner thru. ALWAYS guilty until proven innocent...and we wonder why membership is flagging.

I look at things from the opposite side. after talking to many of the head people who worked on the Reatta project for the past ten years, I have no doubt that there are hundreds of cars that were built that weren't "in the catalog".

I would never suggest events should ONLY be in my "home area"; that's a little silly. what would make much more sense would be to have strong regional chapters formed. Florida would be a great place to start, as it is by far the number one state for Reatta registrations, followed by Illinois, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Ohio and New York. the western states are way down the list. we have over 870 customers in Florida, and only 650 in California, which is a much larger state by population. Reattas were strongest in the east, and Allantes were strongest in Florida, then California. TCs were #1 in California, then Florida. I attribute this to the fact that all Allantes and TCs were convertibles.

I always believe that any constructive criticism should come with positive suggestions. griping for the sake of griping is nothing but counterproductive.

a miniscule number (far less than 1%) of actual Reatta owners even read this forum, or know it exists.

perhaps an ad in Hemmings every month would be a much better way to reach potential new members.

over and out.

Mike Rukavina

buickreattaparts.com

[farnelle]

In the past I have checked this forum regularly for information and to see if there was anything that I could lend to the cause. Lately, however, I have become a less frequent visitor because of the often negative or sarcastic remarks by visitors to the forum. Where has civility in this country gone? Although not on this thread, many of the affronts to civil discourse have become personal. A long time ago my Mother taught me that if you could not say something nice about someone, just refrain from saying anything. She is now 91 years old, practices what she taught and it has served her well.

As far as the subject at hand, I have been a member of the Reatta division for a number of years, have owned a fair number of Reattas none of which were terribly expensive. I have attended several BCA national meets sometimes putting my car in for judging and sometimes not. I had a good time mingling with folks and looking at some nice Buicks either way. 400 point judging is just one part of the National meet. Some years they do not even have 400 point judging.

One of my cars is a Black convertible with a burgundy cloth top. By the way, no deductions as it was an available option even though one may never have been produced with that combination. If there had been a deduction, I would not have cared much because I like the car that way and have had many comments on it.

I also have MG's and Austin Healeys as well as a couple of old Oldsmobiles. I have been to, helped run and participated in many peer judging events and have many trophies, but can state with conviction that peer judging events are not perfect either. I have won first place a number of times when I would not have voted for my car and have not won any place when I truly thought my car was one of the nicest on the field. Go figure.

Sorry for all the rambling, but this tread just kind of got my goat. I just wish we could all be little more positive. Everyone is certainly entitled to their own opinion, but if you do not like the Reatta Division or the BCA why try to ruin it for everyone else? Especially when some of the things espoused have no basis in fact. At least not for the last eight to ten years that I have been associated with the Division where I have met some of the nicest folks I know. The same can be said for most car clubs I suspect.

Best regards,

Ed Farnelll

[Guest wildcat465]

For fear of getting tore up for "daring" to post here as a former Reatta owner. I will stick my neck out nonetheless.

I looked at this post after a new one was started elsewhere pointing out positive things about the BCA.

Man, I thought Reatta owners were some of the happiest guys and gals out there, this is surprising.

No club is perfect. Most members choose to make the most of it and enjoy themselves, some members choose to find as many faults they can and blow them up epic proportions. Some choose to change things by being more involved, some Monday morning quarterback. Most take it at face value and have fun participating. I guess that some will say we are burying are heads in the sand, thats OK, I'm still having fun. I have participated at nationals in all aspects. I have had a car judged, I have just displayed, I have acheived a driven award, been part of a host chapter of a national meet, swapped, judged other cars, volunteered to help. Each and every one of those things were great and has given me an appreciation for what goes into a national meet. I have seen damn near every kind of weather at a national meet, except snow or temps below 60 degrees, and I guess that has been kind of fun too.

Hosting a national meet is a lot of work, kudos to the Hawkeye Chapter for stepping up to the plate this year, I am looking forward to it. I am looking forward to going out east next year. I will do all I can to go to So. Cal. if it ends up there, but that means someone would have to make the commitment to get it done. The national meet location has a lot more to do with the who than the where. It's not political, it's commitment and ability to do the job that is the determining factor.

Yes, this is a public forum, but I hope everyone knows that BCA dues make it so.

[Bill Stoneberg]

Nobody answered my question why Ames Iowa? I would understand a John Deer club event there. (It was 78 degrees here yesterday by the way) Spring has sprung! Why not have the event where the weather is nice? Politics?

Let me speak here as the person who chose Ames Iowa. Let me be perfectly clear, if it was not for myself and Rick Young there would not be a 2010 National ANYWHERE. There were NO, none, zero, nada bids for the 2010 Nationals. Not one region, division or chapter would step up and make a bid for the 2010 Nationals.

I, for one, did not want to be on the BOD when we did not have a nationals for our members. Because not matter what any of you think, the nationals are for the members its not for cars, its not for the tours, it is to get members together and enjoy each others companie and renew old friendships.

Anyway, with no bids, I took it on myself to find someplace, Ames made a excellent offer to host us and we accepted it. I chose Ames because of the offer and the fact that I was able to talk Rick Young to co chair with me. Rick Lives in Jewell Iowa which is close.

After deciding on Ames we were able to convince the HAwkey chapter to help, not host the meet. Make no mistake, they will be doing a lot of work, but it is the BCA Board of Directors and Rick and myself who are putting on this meet. The BCA is taking the risks to put this meet on for the memebers. No politics, no payoffs, just a couple of Board members trying to do what is right for the club.

So Reatta club, like Booreatta said, sign up the members and have Rick cook you a fine meal in Jewell on Friday night. You will get good Iowa food as we have many sponsers providing food. I want to see your club win this prize and I want to see you all in Ames.

BY the Way, BFE was already booked with the Ford Club and we hope to have a few old John Deer tractors to admire. After all most mechnical things intrigue us all.

Edited February 20, 2010 by Bill Stoneberg (see edit history)

[Booreatta]

wws944 I sent you a PM. Welcome to the Reatta Club.

[DAVES89]

Steve if you go back and read my thread the first 5 paragraphs were to be taken "tongue in cheek" illustrating how dificult it is to head up a chapter. If you will note I started the 6th chapter with "Seriuosly I joined... It is easy to take shots but the only way to improve something is to get involved. When you come in out of left field throwing comments around you don't look good and you get attaked.

If you don't want to join the BCA and the Reatta Club that's fine. No one is telling you what to do. Just don't criticize what you don't want to help fix.

[Peter Gariepy]

For those of you who dont know me, I am the (unpaid) webmaster of this forum. Have been for 13 years.

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With all that said I just wanted to throw my 2 cents worth relative to the discussion in this thread:

• The implication that unpaid club officers somehow get financial gain from their positions is uninformed. That is not to say some make a few bucks selling cars, parts and services, or even have formal businesses related to the hobby. Capitalism is not a sin. If a conflict of interest occurs between a club and its volunteers the club typically polices itself well.
  
• Opinions on both sides of an issue are always welcome as long as it doesnt get personal.
  
• No one is wrong for not being a club member. No one is right for being a club member. Its a matter of personal preference.
  
• Judging systems are not perfect and never will be. Just the nature of the beast. If you don't like how a judging system works there is a simple solution - VOLUNTEER TO MAKE IT BETTER!
  
• A club can be successful even if its membership covers a small percentage of its potential audience.
  

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This forum costs the AACA $35,000 a year in servers, bandwidth, and other hard expenses. Advertising revenue helps but doesnt come close to covering expenses. Generally the AACA is not supplemented by the BCA, CCCA, OLDS, or any other club. AACA membership dues pay for this forum. Costs do not include "people time" including all the volunteers that manage, maintain and moderate these forums.

If you appreciate the services that are provided by a club and its volunteers (like this forum) then please - considering being a paid member of a club - any club. But don't stop there, volunteer and participate. You'll get infinitely more out of a club that way!

[Ronnie]

For fear of getting tore up for "daring" to post here as a former Reatta owner. I will stick my neck out nonetheless.

Have no fear. Even though us Reatta guys bicker from time to time, our bark is much worse than our bite. Anytime you have intelligent, independent thinkers, like we have on this forum, you will have disagreements. I don't think disagreements are a bad thing as long as we don't attack each other. Disagreements can lead to us seeing different points of view and realizing that we may not always be right.

Yes, this is a public forum, but I hope everyone knows that BCA dues make it so.

Everyone does not know that the BCA dues make this forum happen. I have never thought that. The BCA may have some small part in helping pay the bills but the AACA is what makes it happen, along with people like Peter Gariepy who donate their time and expertise to keep it going. With that in mind, it could be said that people like me, who are not in a club, are freeloaders by taking part in this forum without paying. I would have to agree but that doesn't mean I should join the BCA or Reatta Division because I own a Reatta. It tells me that everyone on this forum should join the AACA if they want to support this forum. I am considering doing just that and I encourage everyone on this forum to do so as well.

[Guest wildcat465]

My bad on the BCA helping to pay costs here, I realize now that the BCA has it's own website. It used to on the AACA host.

I am going to tap out on this one.

Have fun guys.

[Guest BJM]

Nobody answered my question why Ames Iowa? I would understand a John Deer club event there. (It was 78 degrees here yesterday by the way) Spring has sprung! Why not have the event where the weather is nice? Politics?

Let me speak here as the person who chose Ames Iowa. Let me be perfectly clear, if it was not for myself and Rick Young there would not be a 2010 National ANYWHERE. There were NO, none, zero, nada bids for the 2010 Nationals. Not one region, division or chapter would step up and make a bid for the 2010 Nationals.

Bill,

In this case I think Steve is not a member of the BCA and may never be as he does not see the benefit of it. I started my early rebuttals by defending the BCA and based on his tone there is no compromise.

He clearly stated he has nothing against the BCA he just does not want to join.

Everybody else pretty much understands the BCA mission, position regarding Nationals.

I still find his comments offensive regarding Iowa and upstate New York but he is not the 1st nor the last to leave northern climes for southern geography. It's just a waste of time to defend Iowa & New York and why I (we) live up here.

I've heard all the corn and John Deere jokes hunnerts of times!

Because Steve was tuned out to the reason the National is hosted by the BCA and is in Iowa, etc, his comments about locations of Nationals has no merit. He would not even know that the BCA had a bid from a SoCal chapter a 3-4 years back.

Look guys, Steve and Mike's posts are fine. I would rather everyone post then have censorship. Finally, Clubs are not for everyone. One thing I learned from the ROA schism.

[Guest BJM]

It tells me that everyone on this forum should join the AACA if they want to support this forum. I am considering doing just that and I encourage everyone on this forum to do so as well.

I agree. I am joining the AACA for the totality of their mission and opportunities. BUT remember, they have judging and rules and all that stuff too.

Having make and model specific clubs I think is pretty neat too. And there is no doubt it helps preserve the cars for future generations.

[Booreatta]

Lets refocus this thread, I has been lively. Once again I will state that NOW is the time for all Reatta Owners to join the club, and the BCA. Set aside all of the benefits of belonging and all of the critics, the goal of this thread was and is to WIN THE CONTEST AND GET FOOD. Come on its not that hard. We all eat and we all want to win, lets put the high horses away and get on with winning. I stand 100% behind the BCA, the Reatta Division and all of its members, but now its not about cars, its about food and winning, any arguments now?

As of now is appears that we have 27 new members and we are in the process of verifying that number.

I want to appreciate everybody who participates in this forum.

How does the saying go GOT FOOD OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT

Chuck

And Bill I have a Mustang. The Ford guys don't want it in BFE,,,,way too much rust, In Kansas we call it patina.

[Bill Stoneberg]

Chuck,

A couple of the comments just made me mad last night, so I replied. So much for that subject.

Having said that, if you all win, I will provide the "Libations" for your meal in Jewell. I make my own and will bring a special brew just for you all. Reatta red ale or something like that. I will have to think of a good one.

Looking forward to seeing you in Ames, whats the chance of getting the Muraders to come for the Saturday car show ?

[Booreatta]

Thanks for the invite, I will pass that along to the Marauders club. Some of them may make the trip. It is about 430 miles from here in Wichita but you never know. They are a wild bunch and I am not sure Iowa could handle many of them. I can only imagine all that wild carrying on in the corn field. You should see what they do in wheat fields.

Any way we are going to continue to push for the win.....The contest ends March 1st and that is only 9 days away and we still have work to do

See ya in Ames

Chuck