Steve_Mack_CT

Parents - mine somehow thought a Camaro (about twice as fast and not much bigger?!) was a safer car than a Trumph or MG, what I really wanted. The nice thing about growing up is you get to do what you want then, so it is all good in the end! Stu, just getting the ol Pontiac running with grandpa will be a fun adventure for sure. You can read about how to make that happen right here if you search the forum. Make that your first goal with that car, and after that you will both have a much better feel for where you want to go with it. plus, in terms of spending time it does not have to be THAT car if you decide you two want to work on a project together, but this first step will give you both some real experience to ponder over. Good luck, hope you stay interested whether you end up as a Pontiac, Chevy or brand X guy!

Aahh, our 1989 Mercedes Benz 560 SL is squarely from that era. While all is well under the hood, I am contemplating two "voluntary" jobs as relates to the vacuum hoses on this car: 1) Begin replacing these hoses as a preventive maintenance step. They look decent but I also know the many ways leaks can occur and deterioration can hide. Easy enough to monitor with the handy "economy meter" in the dash that is really a vacuum gauge. 2) The Central locking system on this car is vacuum operated and one of the only, if the only thing I am aware of that is not functioning on this car. For that reason I kind of want to fix it, but part of me also does not see the need, since the top is down on it 95% of the time when it is in use. Hmm, I figure job #1 has a 50/50 chance of being implemented next year, especially if I get bored/am out of things to do on this one, job #2 though, may wait a little longer...

Agree with Country Traveler on the insurance approach. The cheapest route to take is to add on to the family policy and treat it like a less valuable older/used car in the family fleet. In other words, carry liability but not comp/theft on it. Would be a bummer if it was hit and not his fault, but that is the risk in this approach. That was how my ins was back in the day, and how we handled it as parents. (obviously a personal choice and not smart for a high dollar car, but the example '57 Chevy for finanical purposes, is no different than finding a 7 or 8 year old car for a new driver) Stu - if you like the Chevy, I would low ball the guy using the floors as a negotiation point. Offer $4,000 - establish a limit, perhaps $5,000. Looks like a car you could likely make some progress with. Agree with the advice to run from the Pontiac for all the reasons noted above - you can put twice that amount into that car and still be miles away from a roadworthy car.

Stu, as said before, I think options like the '57 Chevy you were considering (your latest pics, however show a rougher car than I for one, had initially envisioned) exist. I would save my money and research more, to be honest. The Pontiac seems pretty far gone and honestly, you cannot "fix this one up" without a tremendous effort, IMO. My point is not to discourage you but unless you and your Grandpa absolutely LOVE this Pontiac, and someone close to you is an experienced mechanic/bodywork I do not see how you can do this one, especially as a first project. Having done a couple of restorations I will tell you I would not attempt this one - another unfortunate fact is the car is not that valuable at the end of the day. This car needs major bodywork, glass, etc. and I am going to assume a full mechanical rebuild of all major systems. If by a stroke of luck you do not need to rebuild the engine, I gaurantee all ancillary components - carb, starter, generator or alternator, ignition system, wiring and electrical, brakes from the master cylinder out, etc. will need to be completely rebuilt. Not adjusted, or cleaned up, etc. After the mechanical and structural body repairs you then will need to address a lot cosmetically. So you have two ways to approach this - 1) Doing the work yourself - do you have a roomy garage, tools including a compressor, welder, sandblaster, and money set aside for consumables including everything from degreaser to bodywork supplies, welding rod, etc. Believe me, $10K gets eaten up pretty fast when outfitting a shop. And you have not bought a single part for the car yet. 2) Hire a pro - the cost of a typical restoration has been debated many times, but just getting this car roadworthy, IMO will cost somewhere between $15 - 20K for pro mechanical and body help, from generalists to get you on the road, not a high end restoration shop. Plan on at least $5,000 in parts alone - tires, brakes, glass, shocks, wiring, lights, carb/starter/gen rebuilding kits or rebuilt/new units, to name a few items, likely more with the pro mark up. Personally, I think a semi-collectible car to use as a first car, for the right person/conditions can be a great experience, as I mentioned earlier. I would just urge you to take your time and pick a much more solid car - it is a buyer's market in a slow economy in Canada as well as the US, and patience could get you a car that is really nice under $10K that you can enjoy immediately. Don't worry, there is always something to be done but best to learn on maintenance and upgrading components here and there, taking on little projects at first then bigger stuff, perhaps while the car is parked for the winter. you can build up your tools, etc. over time and your shop, if you want to do work yourself, will grow with your experience. Good luck Stu - keep us posted on what you do end up doing!

I used to think the cowl vent on my Packard was the AC, guys, but then there is the crank out windsheild on the Model A Ford, and now, the "No Wind shield, roof or doors on the T Speedster, I think it is actually the earliest form of air conditioning. Or taking "minimalist" to new levels..

Great progress, Boojoe. Looking forward to those pics!

Nice one Matt. Great exhaust set up as well. I had one of these with the ANSA exhaust and it is really too loud (great for waking up the neighborhood at odd hours, though!) - the set up on this one is the set up I would want for sure. GLWS!

Great vintage pics from Country Traveler and Keiser 31. I took some, but wish I took more pics in HS!!! In '78 - '81 we had a couple tri fives running around but I also had a buddy who drove his '39 Chevy 4 door sedan daily except in the worst wintertime weather. Same concerns then, modern traffic, etc. but it did not stop him. An alternate choice could be a 6 cylinder Mustang, '65 - '68 - to me, a fantastic first car/first collectible choice and there are others. One concern, Stu, is the condition of the floors, a big expense; think about that. You mentioned that you would rely on a pro mechanic to assist if necessary, you may want to consider pricing the cost of your potential '57 Chevy, purchase, etc. against the cost of the Pontiac your family already owns IF your grandpa would give it to you. In theory, you should have a lot more funds available to put it on the road, IF it is reasonably solid. Just another avenue for you to consider.

Carhartley makes a good point - I would also say that it is a good time to know the difference between restoration (removing every part of a vehicle possible, and restoring it to like new condition) vs. refurbishing or fixing up an older car or even just maintaining it in safe, reliable condition. You are smart to look for a complete, running, registered sedan, so you can get a good car in your price range, which kind of speaks to your question on if a '57 Chevrolet is a good first car. I think that is a great way to get into the hobby - the same advice I give older newcomers. Taking on a full restoration with no prior experience usually results iin a basket case being sold at a fraction of the owners investment after they give up and move on. You may end up working your way up to that, but for a first car that you actually want to drive, IMO your on the right track. On dealing with your parents, you have my advice, which comes from having been on both ends of the equation. If anyone tells you that part of it is not important in this venture, they are not doing you any favors. Like any other advice, you need to filter the good from the junk and decide what makes sense on your own.

Agree with Helfen, and would take it one step further by suggesting that your old car experience, especially at 16, will be more enjoyable all around with your parent's support in addition to "grudging permission" - what I mean is, if you really want this you will be a lot better off it your parents see it as a constructive, useful hobby rather than a possible disagreement every time something related to the car comes up. Sounds basic, and some of these couple of points below apply to any young person with a first car but I would suggest that you: State up front (and walk the talk) that the car comes second to school and whatever other home responsibilities your parents have lined up for you. This is what they may be concerned about, and your knowing that up front will help you. You may even offer to maintain a certain grade average. Have a realistic idea of the expense involved. EVERY 16 year old (I remember I was the same) with an old car is very concerned about paint, chrome, etc. - you need to be concerned about tires, brakes, front end, etc. first. This comes from research and maybe even putting a "fix up" and maintenance plan together so your parents know where you are coming from. Be responsible. I do not think an older, slower car is a bad thing at all for a new driver, but you can still do stupid things with it behind the wheel. A clean driving record will help, I bet if you need Grandpa (who you mentioned) or someone to give you a little financial help with it down the road. Be patient - it is an old car. Things will break, fixing them right may require time, money and the help of a pro - have a plan for that and share it. Basically, YOU should convince your parents that you have thought this out, it won't interfere with school, and you are willing to do a little extra to enjoy an old car. Trying to interest them by sharing car related things, or going to a car show as a family will help also. Most parents LOVE the idea of being included in their teen's life even a little bit - a time when most teens want to be as independent as possible. That will make the car a positive in their minds. Just a couple of tips - it is just as important to be able to get permission to get the car, then carefully decide if that is the car you want, or a different one. Inexpensive older cars are around, and patience always pays off in the hunt. Last, JOIN AACA. You can get a youth membership, and if the right people see this, you will likely be offered year one to get you going. It is a great organization with a new "region" (name of the group, not geographic) devoted to youth members. You seem like an ideal young AACA member to me! GOOD LUCK

I am amazed no one has come up with the technology to disable mobile devices when they are traveling at a greater than walking speed. Even if it did not play well with adults, wouldn't this make a lot of sense to have for those with teenage drivers @ home? Perhaps an insurance discount for those who would add that option to their phones? I know, kind of OT and maybe not directly related to the unfortunate situation in TX, but throwing it out there anyway.

Stu - you may already know a "tri Five" chevy in a more desirable, two door hardtop, for example, bodystyle is well out of reach for an average 16 year old. This car gives you something interesting to drive, yet affordable, and not irreplaceable at the same time. At $5,800, yuor prospective car seems like a good deal to me if it is solid. As a first car, the mechanics are simple enough and I will assume you have the interest or you would be looking at a more modern cookie cutter. Sounds like your driving needs mirror many 16 year olds, local, and not neccesary in real bad weather. You will need to pay a little more attention on the road, yes it is older but this is not a brass car and for around town you should be fine. I will politely disagree with some of the naysayers here and encourage you to go for it - at that price you won't likely get hurt financially. Keep it stock and spend any money on mechanical maintenance and any fixes you need to do along the way. You will have a head turner, but nothing so expensive that if it gets dented in the HS parking lot, for example, you are not out thousands on a repair. I would try to negotiate them down a bit, and plan on spending a few bucks ensuring all safety items, front end, etc. are up to snuff. The advice to have a pro look it over if at all possible to give you an idea of the mechanical needs is good, especially if no one in your family is mechanically inclined - you may well get there but it is a learning process. Dare to be different and you will remember this car fondly many years later. Not sure that passion exists for a used Accord no matter how nice it is. Mssr. Bwatoe, your '56 is deja vu for me, I had the identical car except with a 265/PG combo. I completely restored it and promptly swapped for a Corvette - what a POS that car was compared to the '56....

Yep welcome Pomeroy! AACA is the one club I have been consistent with for almost 15 years, still a newbie but would not drop. The Antique Automobile is worth the price alone if you never do anything more with the club.

Packards best year, IMHO. Congrats.

So one of the big variables is where the line is between a car needing to be restored (which does not lessen the car as a find, but keeping a dirty, rusty lump is not everyone's idea of preservation) vs. cleaned up like Pomeroy's very cool Ford sedan. As much as I like the show, this makes me think of Chasing Classic Cars where Wayne finds a Cobra and is hesitating about washing the dust and crud off of it, seems like presentable paint underneath. I was following a conversation on another site concerning a traditional hot rod - a lot of complaints that the car was "too clean for my tastes" - hmm, I guess to each their own. Kind of flys in the face of advice I was once given when selling a Corvette with some needs - "don't sweat that, kid, clean it up to the best of your ability, you are selling a dream as much as a car" - advice I have followed since when selling - still sound??! :confused:

A.J. and West you comprise some of the very last FB holdouts - it's only a matter of time, gents. How's about a few more pics of the process, A.J.?

What highlander says. That is my kind of barnfind vs. something that was less loved, perhaps sufferred a mechanical faillure and was pushed into a barn or garage for many years - or a dusty abandoned project that is apart. These may be worthwhile and desirable projects, but to me, that is a restoration project. In fact, "nice original" or "older restoration" that needs to be "woken up" or, "complete project car" gets my attention a lot quicker than "barnfind. You know what is important a bit quicker. But not unlike "restoration" the term has different meanings to different people.

"barnfind" has become a completely generic term - or a play on Cotter's latest book, and the other book is that there are at least 50 shades of barnfinds, IMO. To me, a clean original vehicle or older restoration coming out of long term ownership and in need of a good clean up and servicing is the ideal "barnfind" and more interesting to me than taking on a full blown restoration. Probably the best way to acquire an nice old car to enjoy, and even show a bit given the proper attention. But not to "keep dusty" - that is kind of silly, IMHO, but obviously others do not agree. Just another less meaningful descriptive term nowadays...

Nice job - congrats. Any U.S. interest in this car - make no mistake, a cool car, not uninteresting, but I thought a little bit of a narrow market. Not surprised buyer is oversees.

Agree with RU22. I think it is a very limited market - has to be a real hardcore MB collector as that price range (est. restored value) bumps up against some pretty desirable cars from the same era, including larger, more powerful open Full Classics. Personally, I would prefer a postwar open MB if a smaller MB was what you wanted, and a couple of interesting alternatives (open smaller MB) priced almost identically have been sitting out on HMN, for example, for nearly a year. I have to believe the buyer for ths car would be looking at those as well. Cool little car but tough to imagine restoration costs not outpacing the value - which of course is not unique to this car, it's just that he needs to find that MB person who just has to have it. If this were mine, I might contact the MB CLassic center, see if we can come to an agreement on price, take a smaller, but nearly zero effort profit and be on my way.

You guys may think this car is restorable just because the wood is good, but personally I think your barkin' up the wrong tree. I would leave it alone. For anyone here familliar with the Bring A Trailer site - "Bring a Lumberjack"...

Jim, congrats on the car. On paint you should be able to ID the original color with either a Packard or aftermarket color chip chart for '41 as most of the literature guys have that. My '39 120 was "Havana Beige" and a very similar if not same color carried over, I believe for at least a couple of years because I have seen it on subsequent Packards. I see your MB related posts from time to time on "BAT" but had forgotten you had an interest in Packards as well. Thought you had a 110 - did you move it along to get this one?

Phil, I definately think so. I started paying attention to more than just the T Speedsters through my pal Tom Laferriere, who has had/built a few ALFs and such, in addition to a pretty cool T speedster in his personal collection. the more I find out about the history of this genre the more interesting it is to me. It seems a lot were built in the 50s such as the Corbin I posted elsewhere here under "notable Speedsters". We bought the "T" for a few reasons, first, for a project as most of my cars have been ready to go or in need of only minor work; and I wanted something with a little more to be done. Second, the early sporting/speedster style cars have always caught my eye, and last, to experience a very early car as most of our prewar cars have been between '30 and '41. This may help us decide if we want a bigger brass car at some point, but for now anything I need is not that hard to find vs. a larger chassis project, which we were considering. The cool thing about these cars are you have some room for creativity, and it seems the restoration and hot rod groups both seem to like them. Personally I like everything in period, which seems to be what most prefer. A speedster is definately a different car than even a traditional hot rod (great cars as well) so it is more or less accepted by most in the restoration crowd, and most T people. I think Speedsters represent the majority of Model T activtiy these days, as well. I would no sooner trash a solid original car to make a Speedster than I would a hot rod, but it is a great use for a complete chassis on an early car where the body and or wood are gone anyway, which is how many came to be, I think in the 40s - 50s. A look at T Speedster and "Prewar speedsters & Gow Jobs" Facebook pages also points to strong/growing interest. Are you thinking of jumping in, Phil?

Butterworth is the guy I was thinking of, Ronald. I met a fellow in upstate NY (possibly outside your radius) who is not online that I am aware of, but does a LOT with speedsters - he has a Mercury bodied T (NFS) and may be a good contact in general for you. I have his contact info at home (in office right now) and can get it for you if you want to reach out, his business card suggests he is heavy into Speedsters. Love the period cars as well, however, with the assistance of Mr. Rootlieb's products, and a talented prior owner, "coachwork" on mine mine dates back to the 2010 - 2014 period...

Ha "day care for adults" does ring true at times, and not just as it relates to this discussion. Club politics has a way of creeping in - just human nature, I guess. On clubs I do not think all is lost for the purist, if their is a true market demand for clubs that focus on the purist in the future, someone will fill it. Personally, I would rather be part of a smaller organization that fits my needs than a larger group - cannot believe I am alone here, niche enterprises exist everywhere and I do not see purist oriented clubs as any different even if they span multi marques. in fact, this should only strengthen AACA if we stay true to our mission. It is tough to see a club you may have been an active member of for decades change, but you do what you can do, as John is here, at the end of the day, worst case, you vote with your feet. It really depends on the will of the majority I think, some clubs may be so focused on growth they are willing to compromise, others may hold fast. This is certainly a good "case study" for those with similar concerns. Looking forward to John's next update...