Buffalowed Bill

I would appreciate it if any of you Graham people are interested in helping to satisfy some whimsical questions regarding Northrup's Blue Streak. As a youngster, some sixty years ago, I became intrigued by old cars. I was especially drawn to the 1933-34 Ford, the lines of which I fell in love. It was years later that I saw my first Blue Streak. I knew immediately that I was probably looking at the Ford's inspiration, as well as many of the other manufacturers' offerings. It became clear to me that virtually every car company used some, if not all, of Northrup's styling cues. Obviously these cars sold well enough for Graham to weather the Depression, but with the low sales figures I wonder how the company survived. My question is why didn't these cars sell better? Was there some reason(s) that they didn't sell better? There is a member of a local club, of which I am a member, who owns several. One is a very nice convertible coupe, which he spent years restoring, but those are the only ones that I have ever seen. So why haven't more survived, was it a product of the low production or was there something else?

Don't you other guys, from the PNW, know that you're supposed to keep quiet about our little treasure trove of original cars? Unless of course your trying to sell one. Just kidding! Every part of the country has it's Achill's heel, as far a deterioration goes, we just have less problems then most. I have a number of original NW cars that probably wouldn't have survived elsewhere, including a 1950 Studebaker Strarlight coupe, and a 1951 Champion four door. The 50 Commander is more car then the Champ, and does have a small but dedicated following, but I think that most would prefer the long wheel based Landcruiser.

Neither swap meets or Ebay are what they used to be. I seldom find anything that I need at a swap meet, so unless I just want to socialize I just don't go. Both the average seller and buyer has gotten older, and with our ageing much of our vitality has gone missing. Ebay continues to bridge the gap left, by not being able to find what you need, and the vitality necessary to find it. It still remains an invaluable tool.

To the trans, no the first generation Avanti II used the same BW automatic trans as was used in the original Avanti. Engines were initially the only thing outsourced for the A II. An interesting, but unverified, story indicated the very first A II's used wrecking yard Chev sourced 327 engines. The engines were supposedly completely rebuilt prior to installation.

My only point in responding was that people seemed interested, and there were questions to be answered. The fact is that the 1969 is a different car, from the 1976 and the 1985 is much different again, and I thought that people needed to know. It doesn't make any difference that, for years, the Avanti II was assembled in one of the old Studebaker buildings, in South Bend, and mostly by former Studebaker employees that worked on the original Avanti, but it's some trivia some might enjoy knowing. I learn new things every day on the forum, but if it's incorrect information then I appreciate it if someone steps up to correct it. To me misinformation is worse then no information. God knows there is enough misinformation in the world!

Ok I give up! from your definition it is different. The things that are the same: transmission, drive shaft, rear end, front and rear suspension, brakes, frame, body shell, dash, window winders, door latches, bumpers, and glass-granted everything else is different.

Trimacar's comments not exactly true, hate to take exception, but got to keep the record straight. In the first years the Avanti II's, mechanically, used Studebaker sourced parts, with a Chev. engine. As time went by, and as they began to run out of the original stash of Studebaker parts, they made changes. There's a pretty well developed timeline for the specific changes, but in 1969 they still had a reasonable supply of the original stuff. Flat Top's 1976 would have seen a number of the necessary changes, having been made.

I've owned three Avantis over the last fifty years. Still own my first, a 1964 Studebaker, that I've had since 1967. I got stuck driving the 64 for much of my last two years of college, and then into the 70's. Having to rely on it for transportation, kind of developed a love-hate relationship. I could fill a page, and maybe still not cover the quirks of the beast. Today there are obvious reasons for their collectability, but I will never forget those years behind the wheel. I'll try to be charitable and say they are fun if the car is right, it's a dry, 70 degree day, and the stars are aligned. Any variation from that scenario, and they can be a nightmare! I guess that I have picked up some knowledge of these, but certainly no expert. A couple of points that need comment. The brakes are not a problem. They have front discs and drum rears. The discs the were used were the same as those used on the Jaguar and certainly as good as any used the mid 60's, but they did have one interesting quirk. Maybe it was because of the expense of replacing the discs, but the design was such, and unlike today's brakes, once they had worn down to a certain point the linings just stopped contacting the disc. So one day you realize that major part of your braking has just disappeared! If you've ever had a car with only RW brakes, you know what this can be like on wet pavement! An inspection of the linings show that there is still some left. It took me a while to figure that one out. The second thing, the engine. As Gary indicated it could be a 350 cu" Chev, small block, but it could also be 327 cu." The 327 was the engine initially used in 1966, and continued until it was superseded by the 350 or the 400. The 400 doesn't have the good reputation that the others do, so it's not as simple as it might seem. Third comment is regarding the fiberglass repair. I've seen some pretty bad repair jobs over the years. One nice thing about the design using fiberglass on a full frame, is that in an accident the fiberglass just kind of disintegrates when impacted. This means that the impact force is somewhat moderated before it reaches the driver's compartment, and there is a built in roll bar overhead. I remember the aftermath of an accident that a young friend had back in the 70's, when he rolled his car at over 100 MPH. The car rolled three times, and both he and his passenger walked away! There was not a single piece of fiberglass piece, more then two feet square that survived, but they were basically were unhurt!

I just came across the ad and thought that I would comment on the 1946 Studebaker. This is a car that my better half owned up until a year ago. It's a 60, 000, PNW original car with minimal rust under the left gravel shield, and the trunk weather strip trough and a tiny bit on the trunk floor. This is really a decent car and would make a great project, but a bit overpriced at $8K. I hope that someone can negotiate a price that would allow for it's preservation.

In the mid 90's a friend found a decent original, low mileage, NW car, which he bought to take a trip down to the National Studebaker meet in Long Beach Ca. I never quite got the reasoning behind buying the Rambler to take to a Studebaker meet, other then the price was right, and it was a rather rare 30 year old car. We had several months to play with the car before he made the trip. My personal characterization of the car was of a rather awkward looking, seemingly heavy car, whose handling was about what I expected for a mid 50's car. The car had an automatic trans, and what seemed to be, pretty tall gearing. The car was definitely not as fast as a friend's 1957 Corvette (283, dual fours, close ratio three speed and 4:10 gears). The Corvette probably was not a good car to compare it to, because of how it was equipped. The Rambler seemed decidedly slower then the supercharged 57/58 Studebaker Golden Hawks that I have driven, but it's tall gearing had to be a detriment here. To me the most interesting thing about the car was that a car that looked like that, had the level of performance that it had. In it's time it definitely would have been a real sleeper. My friend, and several mutual friends, made the trip without any problems, at the end of which he put the car up for sale. It was not a car that I was willing to make room for in my own collection, but in retrospect I should have given it more consideration. He sold it to a young lady in Seattle, and for a number of years we would occasionally see it on the street. It is still the only one that I have ever seen, and I hope that it still survives today.

Most of us on the forum understand the reality of reliability, cost, and historical significance of our old cars, but many do not. What seems to be called for is an educational intervention. Not heavy handed or derisive, but friendly, informative and consensus. This is a battle that has to be fought, one car, and one owner at a time. I think that it is our mandate as conservators, to at least try to become part of the process.

Does your windshield resemble the other 1933 Studebaker sedans? If so all, of them have the same basic windshield configuration in 1933, and this goes for the Pierce Arrow, as well. The PA repop has been around for forty years and should be available.

The roads, in most cases, were terrible in those days. There is a video around that shows the wooden wheels flexing, as they traveled on the rutted roads. The amount of flexing shown is amazing!

I second Ply33's positive results from Uvira. Process been around for a long time. I guess you might say, longevity is it's best advertisement.

If you are still looking try-Antique Auto Ranch 2225 N Dollar Rd Spokane Wa. 99212 509 535 7789

This is not a new subject, and the response shows that there is interest. I'm not going into my whole narrative but, a couple of notes on why and how my cars are named. With some exceptions, I doubt that any man who says that his cars don't get named, has a women in his life who is as interested in cars as he is. Because if he did, the car would be named as soon as it came into the household. Sometimes a name is chosen even before the purchase is made. As a matter of fact if a man wants his better half to bond with a car, naming it is the most fool proof way that I know to get it done. Helping in choosing a paint color is the other foolproof way of getting your women to bond with the car, but the first is obviously the easiest way. Once named a car seems magically transformed from an inanimate objet to something with a personality. Male or female, the gender is determined by the car's character, but my better half and I do the naming together. Often the name given helps to honor the friend from whom I got the car. Every car has a story and a name can be part of an original car's story, people love it! In my world cars are going to get named. I could have chosen to be a part of the process, and enjoy it, or fight a loosing battle. The choice for me was simple.

Years ago I got samples of leather, for my Studebaker, from a very prominent US supplier. They looked great, and were on sale too. I checked with my upholsterer and he liked what he saw. We liked what we saw so well that ordered enough to do two cars. We were really impress when we got the hides, even though they were different color then the ones we ordered, but they were going to work nicely regardless of color differences. When we laid out the hides we began to see problems. There were anomalies in every hide, wire cuts etc. The upshot was that even with very careful layout we were lucky to be able to get the one car done. I was just fortunate that I had ordered the extra leather from the same lot when I had the chance. My experience taught me that that I needed to be careful. There are a number of variables in leather selection, not the least of which is the quality of the restoration. What is fine for a driver may not be good enough for a Pebble Beach restoration.

I don't know what two cents will buy, except a lot of trouble, but here goes. I personally don't like the new custom look in which the bumper is painted the same color as the car/truck body, but painting would still seem to have been a option when the truck was new. I'm really not too sure about the early 50's Chev, but I seem to remember them having seen painted bumpers. They couldn't have been different then the other trucks of the era. All manufacturers seemed to all have used a contrasting, standard white, or off white bumper.

I love the 33 Studebaker! I think that it's the President Speedway that I have been hearing about for years. I knew that it was in Canada, but didn't know where. I think that it is one of two surviving, the other in the hands of a well known collector in Ma. Just curious if your father has any plans to sell it?

The fact that the two parallel collections still exist is nothing short of a miracle. If it weren't for Harold neither would exist today, but he made no plans for his three thousand car collection once he was gone. When he passed it was up to friends and family to make sure that the collection, or much of it, was preserved. The family donated a number of cars to the museum foundation, but family and the museum have, for the most part, gone their separate ways. Harold was the garbage man in Pierce and Thurston counties, but he was a self made man for whom finances were not always easy in the early years. Harold was honest and really a nice guy, and when making payroll was difficult his workers stood by him, because they knew that he was good for it. I really don't know when Harold started buying cars, but by the late sixties, when I became interested in old cars, he was already and institution. Not an exaggeration to say that he bought everything. Once he focused in on a car he almost always got it. I remember going to a local auction in the 70's ready to buy a 1926 Paige touring car. I got two bids in and my budget was surpassed by someone behind me. I looked around and it was Harold, game over! I visit that car and the collection at the family home, every year. His drivers were always on the lookout for anything hiding behind a garage. Collectability was not part of his vocabulary. In fact one of the striking things about his collection was it's diversity. By the 80's there were cars like an unrestored 1953 Plymouth or a Corvair or a Rolls, but many more of the first two then the latter. At its height, the collection was purported to be three thousand strong. Until later years, none of his cars were treated to any kind of a restoration. Few collectors would have saved an original 1953 four door, but Harold did. The core of his collection were unrestored cars from the PNW, but in later years he went farther afield for his finds. I guess it was in the late 70's that he bought the family house and property. What had been kind of a disorganized collection, began to take shape. He began to put up buildings around the property to house the cars. He would open up the collection once a year to everyone, and in the early days guests could show their own cars on the property around the home. He and wife Nancy would serve donuts, coffee and lemonade, and everything, including admission, was free! Harold would play the engineer on the little train that circled the property. He just loved to give rides to the kids! Marymount was purchased later, maybe the 80's, and became a year round focus for guests. The property itself is huge and just spectacular! I have heard that it was a special deal made, because the order that owned it, did not want to see it destroyed or parceled out. Today the grounds have become the show field for guest's cars on the day of the open house. With the open house timing is everything, but regardless you won't be disappointed in what you see!

Whatever you pay for it is going to be too much. Whether it's 2K or 5K, it is nothing to what your outlay of money and time is going to be. I hate to say it, but it's a parts car. The value of this car was as a Classic, which it is not today. As a street rod it has little or no value commensurate what would have to go into it. I honestly doubt that most rodders are going to care whether it's a REO Royal or a 1932 Chevrolet. It's a sedan, not a coupe, roadster or convertible sedan-not much interest in a sedan.

I have never used plastic sheeting with a dirt floor storage. Uncharted territory, thanks Rusty. I do know that in a shop environment it provides an adequate barrier to shop dust. I have car covers for most of my cars, but no longer use any of them. The softest cover will produce paint damage, as its removed and replaced. I guess it gets down to the cars paint condition and how much additional damage one is willing to live with.

As I indicated previously, try the very thinnest painters drop cloth. It's what many of the restoration shops use to keep the dust off. For years, I have used it successfully on my two best cars, but they are in a somewhat climate controlled area, with little dust and humidity.

I too live in the PNW, but I don't have the same problem that you do. Our shop stays dry and at a rather consistent 44-48 degrees in the winter, with little moisture. If you have no moisture barrier and or no ventilation you will always have problems. Especially if you keep your car covered! In the PNW we have only three months to worry about, Nov.-Jan. There is seldom the high humidity, and the huge temperature swings that much of the rest of country has to deal with. Only you can answer the question as to why your shop has the problem. Things that I would suggest 1) provide a moisture barrier under your car. 2) Try to keep the air moving, maybe with a slow running fan. 3) Use a dehumidifier or a space heater to keep the moisture at a minimum. 4) Try to talk yourself out of the need to cover your car indoors. In my opinion covering a car is akin to living in a fool's paradise. If covering your car is an obsession, consider substituting light painters sheeting, the thinnest you can get. It will allow for some air movement, without doing the damage that a tight fitting car cover can cause.

Just found two flat head, cylinder heads for, what I believe, are for the 339 cu" engine (1949-51). Condition unknown, just trying to find out if someone needs them.-Bill