wayne sheldon

Such a fantastic photo! So much to see in it. The tow trucks, the building, the signs. What surprised me a bit though, was the phone number on the hoods? They had a seven digit phone number! Most of the country (and the world?) didn't expand to that point until after WW2. When I was about eight, we moved to a new suburb outside San Jose California, and the "exchange" we were on was "ANdrews". For first two numbers, one dialed the appropriate numerical digit for each of the first two letters in the exchange name. Exchanges were usually named after some person, business, or historic area name, that identified the area of the exchange. Before direct dialing, one would ring the operator, and request the phone number by the exchange name and then the however many digits phone number that followed it. Even in the 1950s, many smaller exchanges had only three or four numerals following the exchange name.

A model T Ford! 1912 torpedo roadster to be exact, with one of the common "make-a-tractor" kits available in those days. What is interesting, is that the torpedo roadster was one of the very few model T cars that from the factory had a large round gasoline tank mounted outside behind the seat, instead of under the seat or hidden somewhere inside the body. Every time I see this photo, I wonder where the farmer put the gasoline tank and what he might have used?

Remember AJ, model Ts were designed to be driven by people that had never driven any car in their lifetime up to that point! In past years, when I did have occasions to teach newcomers how to drive a model T, the first thing I would tell them was to forget everything they learned about driving after about the age of six. At six, you knew mommy and daddy sat behind the wheel, turned a key of some sort, pressed a pedal or two and started the car. Then pressing pedals and moving a couple levers they began driving the car while turning the steering wheel to and fro. From that point, a model T Ford is one of the easiest cars to learn to drive.

Me personally? I have used tire black and whitewall paints years ago. I thought they did not hold up well at all when driven on. I have had better luck just using common spray can enamel paint on tires. A few times years ago, I got second hand whitewall tires that I wanted to use on cars I did not want whitewalls on it. I used spray can black enamel paint then turned the painted side in, and after a few thousand miles of driving was surprised at how well they still looked. I have spent quite a bit of time researching tires of the early days into the 1930s eras. I can tell you it is not an easy subject. A lot of what people think they know may be based in fact? But is not actually accurate. Most early tires before about 1910 were some sort of gummy off white color that varied greatly in how far "off" white they were, and then the color changed due to the harsh road conditions on the day. That off white gummy stuff was basically the result of the natural base rubber used to make the tires, and crude hand work in the manufacturing process used in the early days. During the 1910s, several things happened. Rubber shortages due to the greater demands first by the automotive industry, and then the outbreak of the "Great War" lead to finding ways to get more miles and more tires out of the limited supplies of natural rubber. In this country (the USA) marketing also tried a bunch of novel approaches to selling tires. Multi-colored tires was a popular theme during the 1910s into the early 1920s. Whole the black and white photography of the era does not show it, and color publication was expensive and rare in periodical magazines, tires were in fact sold in a wide variety of color combinations where the tread and sidewalls might be different or all one color. A private collector I know has several early era tires displayed on his shop's walls, and because I have been interested in the history, I have seen numerous other examples of surviving early tires. Various colors including but not limited to red, gray, white, green, blue, yellow, and black were used, I have personally seen sever white tread, green sidewall tires, one white tread blue sidewall, gray tread red sidewall, gray tread white sidewall, among a few others. All of those in early automobile size tires (several in 28 X 3 clincher, some in 30 X 3 1/2 clincher). I have long wanted some of those, but have never found any available at a price I could afford. Brightly colored tires were fading away in the early 1920s, however, I have seen advertising for them as late as 1923. Automobile manufacturers didn't help either with good records of tires used. As Walt Gosden here has said many times, manufacturer's advertising was geared toward selling cars, and being attractive to potential buyers. As colored printing periodicals became more common, manufacturers often showed advertisements of cars in colors they may or may not have actually been available? They also often showed whitewall tires on cars that rarely if ever were actually sold with whitewall tires. In the 1910s and early 1920s, "whitewall" tires were not a "stylish" option. They were a step up from all whites which wore out quickly, but not as good as the all blacks which where stronger and lasted longer. Again, the B&W photographs of the era often do not clearly show this, however, if one zooms in closely and looks carefully, it can be seen that black tread white sidewall (both sides!) tires were common in the later 1910s and early 1920s. They were common on model T, Fords and can be found also on high end cars of that era. Part of th issue with photographic record is that he roads were harsh in those days. Dust collected on tires quickly, and regardless of the colors, became one big dusty gray-brown very quickly. Most "factory" photos of the day were staged! The professional photographer was coming, and the cars detailed and prepared in advance! Something I have found very interesting in studying model Ts is how many era photos if looked at closely enough (if the photo is good enough?) do clearly show nearly new model Ts with black tread white sidewall tires. However, "factory" photos usually show all black tires! I have seen a few "factory photos" where the unfinished car nearest the camera has all black tires, but a couple cars behind it there are those white sidewalls again! Have to make it look good in the photos. All white tires were out of style by the 1920s, although I have seen indications they may have still been available. Most common tires by the mid 1920s would have been somewhere between a medium gray and black. "Whitewall" tires as a style began in the mid 1920s, with advertising showing them by 1925. Several longtime friends years ago had Buick automobiles of the 1920s, and through them I saw many copies of Buick factory photographs showing late 1920s Buicks with double sided whitewall tires on them! Many era photographs seem to indicate that most Buicks in those years did not have whitewall tires on them, single or double sided. What Kissel did usually or occasionally in those years I do not know. But if they were like most manufacturers those days? What they did probably varied a bit. They sure do look good in gray on the Goldbugs!

I don't know if the OP got what he was looking for or not? But obviously a lot of us here have enjoyed this thread!

A similar check point? Again, engine hot, idling slow. Use a piece of thin cardboard, not corrugated, but a lot thicker than art paper or or a cereal box, need a piece about four by six inches or slightly larger. With the engine idling, hold the piece of cardboard by the edge and across the end of the tail pipe. A clean straight round cut on the end of the pipe helps a lot, but I have had success on odd or angled cut pipes also. If the engine is healthy, and valves all working like they should, the cardboard should hold fairly steady, with the exhaust flowing smoothly and pushing the cardboard like it was floating on air. If the cardboard sort of stutters, flutters or "farts" as Grimy put it, there is a problem developing, likely valves becoming weak on the seal. If the cardboard repeatedly slaps the end of the exhaust pipe? It already has one or more failing valves. That is an old mechanic's test that used to be well known, but I haven't heard of it much in recent years. Back to the general question. Basically what others have already said. The cars I have usually loved the most were ones I paid a little too much for, or did a LOT of work on. I would put a bit more weight on the fact that it sounds like the car is already fairly well sorted for touring, and checked out well in the test drives.

TT truck chassis, probably about 1920 or '21, could be as late as 1923. There is probably a door on the other side. Unusual oil sidelamps above and behind the headlamps. Thank you Dave M!

What a wonderful photo! Only one of those five racing cars is clearly a model T Ford. Although either 09 or 19 could maybe be a model T under all the changes. Also interesting to notice that two of the five are racing on clearly wooden spoke wheels! I say it often enough, but a lot of people today still do not believe they actually did that back in those days! (Wooden spoke wheels are a lot stronger than most people think they are!) The two cars with what appear to be disc wheels are likely also running on wood, hidden between two sheet steel discs. If you look closely, numbers 09 and 19 on the inside of the left front wheel, you can see a hole to reach through to the valve stem in order to add air pressure. A common detail on double sided disc covers for wooden spoke wheels. Great photo, thank you.

I think this car (pre restoration?) was shared here a few years ago. I recall a very similar Stutz Bulldog with very similar wrong fenders on it in otherwise very original condition. The color at that time was also red, however the paint was not fresh looking. I wonder how long the current owner has had it?

Thank you motoringicons, I saw the thread title, "possibly the ultimate model T speedster" and immediately thought "oh great, I wonder what kind of pile of junk someone put together this time?" Seen too many of them. But I clicked in and scrolled down to the photos and---- what a pleasant surprise! I knew in an instant what it was.

I believe that is one of the "Duplex" series of Studebakers. Well in known in Studebaker circles, they were in effect factory offered "California" top cars. They came in both roadster and phaeton styles, in basically all model lines from about 1925 into 1927. It was a short lived thing as by 1927, sedans and coupes were taking over as the most purchased model automobiles, and an "open/closed crossover" style quickly became a waste. The duplex phaetons were much more common than the roadsters. I have personally seen at least a dozen of the phaetons, and known four or five owners of them, while I have only seen maybe three of the duplex roadsters up close (none owned by good friends). Buick also offered a similar series of cars about the same timeframe. Removeable fixed top roadsters and touring cars, in Buick's case didn't stand out much differently than the typical roadsters and touring cars. Except for the colors, it looks like a fairly nice car.

Difficult to know. It appears really rusty from sitting outside for probably decades. However, a couple of the best model T engines I have used in my restorations have been the rustiest worst looking ones when I got them. Took them apart and inside they were like fresh rebuilt. On the other hand, the worst model T engine I ever rebuilt and used was one that ran as a power supply for who knows how long! Everything inside was the most worn out I ever saw! I cannot imagine how bad it must have sounded as loose as all the rod and main bearings were. The cast iron timing gears were worn down literally razor sharp! That one cost me more dollars than any other model T engine I ever restored. But it did in fact make a great engine in my model T which I drove a lot for many years. As for the modifications? They probably did not hurt anything. The belt pulley addition may simply unbolt and come off trouble free? Those parts themselves may even be worth a few dollars to the model T crowd. They often collect anything connected to model T history. The sellable value of the engine can vary a lot. Where it is located can make a big difference, due to transportation costs. The value seriously could be anywhere from five dollars to maybe five hundred if it is in really nice condition inside? I would guess likely between two to a bit over three hundred guessing from the outside.

1926 or 1927 model T Ford engine. The "box" on the top of the engine is the coil box, 1926/'27 style only. They had four coils, one for each cylinder (model Ts were famous for their low voltage timer and four coils ignition system!). Looking at the back of the engine block. there are two bolts between the "hogshead" transmission cover and the engine block. Those bolts were added late in calendar 1925 for the 1926 model cars to strengthen the engine/transmission unit. Earlier model Ts (1909 through 1925 models) did not have those two bolts. The engine was modified for use as a stationary power supply. That is what the big flat-belt pulley wheel is for on the back end of it. That would have been done after the car had outlived its usefulness as an automobile, or maybe been wrecked somehow.

Charles Montier was a Ford dealer in France following the first world war (I don't recall offhand exactly when he began dealing in Fords?). Along with the business of importing standard model Ts, Montier enjoyed racing, and used racing to publicize his product. That he built his own overhead valve heads for the model T engine is a known fact! I am not an expert on them, but this does look like pictures I have seen before. He built some number of special racing cars, keeping and racing several of them himself, and selling others which were raced all over Europe, England, and various colonies. There are about a handful of real Montier Ford racing cars surviving today. One is owned by a fellow in Australia that has frequented the MTFCA forum off and on for years! A few years ago, he wrote a book about Charles Montier and his racing Fords! I highly recommend that book! Among other places, it can be found on Amazon, link: (I am not endorsing Amazon, but they do have a nice presentation about the book) https://www.amazon.com/Charles-Montier-French-racing-Fords/dp/B0B6L3Q5TW Charles Montier began racing Fords in the model T era, and continued into the early V8 era 1930s I do not know this car personally, and cannot verify its provenance. But it looks pretty right in the photos from the pictures of other Montier racing Fords I have seen.

Leif, So right you are! Most people do not realize that the 490 Chevrolet was the model at which Chevrolet truly became a serious competitor to Ford's domination of the low price market. It was also one of the first car models which one could buy a sedan for the same price as a touring car, therefore speeding up the enclosed car's becoming more popular than open cars for most buyers. Sadly, today, there aren't a lot of nicely restored 490 Chevrolet cars to be seen. They don't have the club support or parts availability that the Fords have, and that hurts their popularity. This is a very nice example (with a few things not quite correct?), and deserves a good home that will care for and drive it often! (Price might be a bit high? Although one could not restore another car for that amount!)

The shop IS the pot of gold! (Know what you have.)

Difficult to say. Does it look like anything is missing from the inside/backside of the wheel? Most similar style and size wire wheels have a mounting plate back there that would have the lug bolts pattern in it. It is possible that these may have been held on by a single "spin on" hub cap from the outside. But to me they don't look quite right for that type of hub. Is it possible the wheels were never sold universal replacements that needed to have the appropriate fitting mounting plate welded in? Some good pictures of the backside might help.

And John E G comes through again! Fantastic link to a wonderful Locomobile thread I had not seen before. That thought did cross my mind when I first looked at the pictures. But it quickly left when I looked closer. While the simple "all business" look of the Locomobile's gauges does have a 1930s into 1950s aircraft look to them? Aircraft do not measure speed or distance in "miles" per se. "Speed" may be measured as "wind speed"? But there is no mechanical connection to the ground to measure actual speed or distance. The other key clue is in the name. Warner Auto Meters was one of dozens of companies making speedometers for automobiles in the early couple decades of the automobile. Warner Auto Meters was in fact one of the highest quality and fancy designs companies in those earlier years. Stewart was another business, and expanding. I had to google for the year the two businesses were merged, it was 1912. I knew they continued to do business under both (and other) names for quite some time. Hence, speedometers were manufactured and sold under both the Warner and Stewart names into the early to mid 1920s. During the 1920s, some speedometers were sold under the combined name of "Stewart Warner". By that time, the "Auto Meters" was largely dropped from the faces of speedometers and odometers. Also interesting to note. In the earlier days of automobiles, odometers and speedometers were often sold singly and separately. That in part was due to the high cost of the devices, and the fact that most automobile owners did not travel very far. Speed limits were low, and some cities strictly enforced things like 8 1/2 miles per hour! Depending on where one lived, and how far they themselves drove, one or the other might be much more valuable. If your driving was mostly in town? You might really need that speedometer to make certain you did not exceed that last half a mile per hour speed! (SERIOUSLY!) On the other hand, if one drove out away from the town, given the terrible maps available in those days, you might really need the odometer more to keep track of how far you had gone, and whether it was time to oil the shackles or valves now? Every car's "owner's manual" had a list of things and how often one should oil them. Warner Auto Meter often sold high end units that were in fact two separate meters mounted together. So much stuff that to me makes automobile history so fascinating!

Oh yeah. Like the Davis for sale (way too high price!) in the "Not Mine For Sale" section? This car just oozes the roaring '20s! Anyone know what the car is? Although, I am pretty sure I have seen this photo before, I cannot remember if the car was identified or not.

Great story! I enjoyed reading it.

My opinion. Much better to have a genuine eight cylinder convertible sedan than a similar fake twelve cylinder convertible sedan. It is also better to have a genuine sedan than a fake roadster. That said, a chassis is just a chassis. Better to create something marginally impressive and fun than send the chassis off for scrap. That said, I have been a long time fan of speedsters, I personally restored and extensively drove five model T speedsters over my years! There are great fun! Mine I made a serious effort to keep them as era correct as I could. Literally thousands of speedsters, model Ts and hundreds of other makes, were built during the speedster era. But the speedster era ended in the late 1920s. Custom roadsters of the 1930s are very different from what the speedsters in the speedster era were. And the custom roadsters of the 1930s were built in relatively small numbers. I can very much appreciate a properly done custom roadster in the 1930s style. But building an earlier style speedster out of a later chassis never looks good.

Don't give up! It is a very unusual piece, and may take a bit for someone who would recognize it to see it. Warner Auto Meters were a fairly early and high end type of speedometer, used by several expensive automobiles. I do not recognize this one, and really cannot be much help this time. I doubt it is very valuable in a dollars sense, but I could be wrong there. And condition, especially internally, is very important to value. They tend to be fragile (pot metal inside most such things). So best to not mess with it. Good luck! I hope it finds its way onto the right sort of car.

Single port exhaust I think makes it 1927 or earlier. Looks like a rocker arm cover with it, but I am not sure when those began?

Before most of the timeframe of this discussion? In the late 1910s, and throughout the 1920s, it was common for some automobile dealers to affix small brass plates to the interior of cars they sold. They were usually nicely made (by modern standards), and about one inch tall by three to four inches wide. Similar in style to engine or serial number tags, they would show the dealership's name and cars they represented, and maybe the dealership's address or just the city and/or state they were in. A few dealers even put serial numbers on such plates to track (or brag about?) their sales. Ford dealers did this a lot through the model T era, and still to a lesser extent during the Model A years. I have personally seen a dozen or more from Chevrolet dealers also. Other marques to a lesser extent, however I recall seeing ones for Buick, Reo, Cadillac, and Studebaker a few times. The MTFCA forum used to discuss these fairly often. I have personally seen probably at least fifty of the things myself, however, I have only had a couple, and they went on cars when I sold them. Jay-In Northern California, is a well known collector of model T Ford accessories, and a good friend. A quick google search found a thread he posted about ten years ago. I highly recommend you check in on it if you are interested. A small portion of his dash plaques, as well as a few from other forum members are pictured there. However, be forewarned, due to the age of that forum thread, it is not currently considered "secure". It should be fine, I personally search through their archives often, and have not had any issues from it. The link; http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/411944/457626.html?1420073941

Neat! Really sad if they do scrap it. It looks like they went out of their way to make the tractor really heavy to press fresh asphalt. Later ones had heavy steel hollow drums that would be filled with water to add weight for pressing asphalt, and then emptied to make handling and moving the machine easier. Just a guess on my part (perhaps an "educated guess"?). That "road roller" was likely built between the late 1920s to maybe as late as 1950.