wayne sheldon

Sounds like you are having fun! That is a good thing. As for losing a radiator neck? Been there, done that. I have heard of it several times with Horseless Carriage/Veteran cars over the years.

Looks like a nice axle. Sorry, I don't recognize what it is from. Where is it (are you) located. Might make a big difference to someone being interested in it.

A few thoughts. I am not what I consider an expert on Metz, but do think I know a little about them. First, I think it is the standard roadster offering for 1911/'12/'13. The top, windshield and mother-in-law seat (or rumble seat) were optional on the standard roadster. The special roadster was offered in 1913 with less of a cowling, lowered seat, and larger round gasoline tank mounted on the rear deck. The Special Roadster's standard color was red and black. In 1914, there was a model called the Speedster by Metz, similar to the 1913 Special roadster, but with a different gasoline tank. Its original color was very similar to this car's orange. I have part of an original radiator from one. The Speedster also came standard with wire wheels (30X3 all around) I am not certain, however I believe that the 1911 had several minor differences from the later (and this) model 22s. I don't know just when the changes were made, but I understand that the shift lever and rear brakes were different. I can't tell for sure from the photos in the eBad listing, but I think those are the more common model 22 brakes. I would guess (GUESS mind you) that the car is likely a 1912 for those reasons, but do not know for certain. Regardless of that (and the color), I think it looks like a nice car, and I really wish I was in a position to bid on it. And no, I do not have any connection to the seller and never seen this car in person before.

I have never used a Remy mag. But several people I have talked to over the years have switched to a Bosch mag, and said they liked them much better. I have had and run a few cars with Bosch DU4 mags, and I really liked them. One common mistake made with some high-tension magnetos is with the spark plug gap. It NEEDS to be smaller than most other ignition systems. Many years ago I saw it in a vintage reference book, and it recommended 18 thousandths as opposed to the usual 30 or so. This figure does vary somewhat with different makes and models of magnetos, but the DU4 is what I have run and what I remember. The DU4 with plugs set at 18 should start well provided the mag is timed properly (a bit tricky and difficult to explain). The higher the rpm, the hotter the spark. At running speeds, the spark is plenty hot to keep the plugs clean. In fact, I still had some trouble with it destroying the porcelain and averaged only a few thousand miles to a set of plugs. If I get another car going with a mag, I plan to try an even slightly smaller gap. The DU4 is still fairly common, and can usually be found for a reasonable price. There are several experts (a couple already mentioned) to help you with rebuilding and timing it.

I didn't notice the flag when I saw this on the MTFCA forum. But I do usually notice a Metz when I see one. And this clearly was. I am glad that you you moved that to be seen here also. Thank you! Will you be going to the Metz gathering in July?

" no need to wash for a while now. " You? Or the car? My apologies. It was a cheap shot. But I simply could not help myself! More wonderful photos. Thank you for sharing them. As Always.

Personally, I don't like putting things like electric fuel pumps on antique automobiles. Properly rebuilt and maintained early technology is usually pretty good. The big question is, where is the gasoline tank located? IHC motors are usually about the middle of the chassis. A three inch drop from the bottom of the tank to the input of the carburetor should be fine. For comparison, a model T Ford is no more than that and the gasoline tank is located about three feet back towards the rear of the car. They can be trouble climbing hills, but most usual hills are not generally a problem as long as the tank is not nearly empty. One thing about gravity fuel feed. Gravity rarely stops working (fuel pump failures are very rare!). It is a good idea to have a good shut-off valve in the fuel line for when you park the car (should be able to reach and use it from outside the car). Otherwise, carburetor input valves do sometimes leak and can spill all your gasoline onto the garage/shop floor. Especially not good when there is a water heater or furnace nearby.

Nice! It is always fun to get those little details done. Not exactly the same, however very similar to the ones on my '19 Ford boat-tail speedster. I don't know what they were off of originally.

It is amazing what you can accomplish by a little creative thinking!

Some cars, with a strong battery and good starter, can pull enough gasoline to prime the vacuum tank. IMPORTANT caution! That CAN be bad for the starter, could burn out the armature or melt solder connections or cables. So you need to know your car and if you want to risk it. Choke the engine, crank several times, pause to allow vacuum sucking to stop so that the gasoline pulled into the top of the tank can drain into the carburetor. It only takes a very small amount of gasoline to start the motor, but that gasoline has to be in the carburetor first. If the first cycle doesn't start the motor? You may want to try a second cycle of choke, crank, pause, crank and hope it starts. If the second cycle to prime and start does not do it? Personally, I get out, and put my hands onto the starter and several places of the cables to make sure nothing is getting hot. If it is getting hot (be careful touching not to get burned!), you may need to resort to other methods to prime the motor. I have had and driven several cars with vacuum tanks over the years. Several of them would prime and start this way. A couple would not. I always figured that the cars that would not start that way had minor leaks somewhere in the system that would defeat the slow crank of the starter pulling gasoline up, but would work fine at running rpm.

I love that Steam Lorry! But then, I like a lot of that stuff. The Chalmers seems to be a great car four touring about and seeing the sights! Thank you for sharing the adventure! Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2

Definitely Buick. '26/'27 as keiser31 says. (He is usually right!)

Just looked in here, don't know too many Chalmers cars. That is my excuse for missing this thread and I am sticking to it. However, I have played around with early racing cars and speedsters for a few years. One of the finest single car threads I have seen in a long time. Wonderful reporting. Fantastic photos of a lot of incredible cars and meets (ralleyes?). I even saw several cars I am familiar with from other websites. I have for several years been envious of the Veteran car activities in the U K. Personally, I dislike wearing modern helmets with antique automobiles. I much prefer my leather helmet and goggles. Looks to me like you have a lot of fun with that car! Drive carefully, and do enjoy! W2

I cannot recall at the moment what the "GG" stands for. But they were a vacuum fuel pump (vacuum tank) used by a number of automobiles in the 1920s (maybe also earlier). They are far more rare than the common Stewart Vacuum Tank, and I have never had or used one of these so know very little about them. I am fairly sure Chevrolet used them for a few years and models. I am also fairly sure that some Chevrolet models used the Stewart tank. I have no knowledge of which models used which, or any other marques that used the GG. These used to show up at swap meets occasionally, but not nearly as often as the Stewart tanks did. For whatever it is worth, I have used Stewart Vacuum Tanks on several cars over the years. I like using them once the (usually age related) bugs are worked out of them. I have heard these also work well. Good luck! I hope it finds a good home on a car that is supposed to have one. W2

That style of hub and brake was used from some time in I think 1912 through 1914. Before that Metz used a multiple disc brake inside the hub, and did not have the brakes on the inner end of the deep/long hubs. For 1915, Metz switched to a single chain drive instead of the dual chain drive like this axle has. The wire wheels are nice. They were optional on most Metz cars throughout their production under the Metz name. These should use a 30X3 clincher tire. Earlier versions were smaller, some later versions had more standard looking hubs according to photos I have seen. In 1914, wire wheels were standard issue on the appropriately named "Speedster" model which came originally in a one year only for Metz color of orange (I have part of a radiator still showing that color). The Speedster was a one year only offering. The similar 1913 "Special" Roadster was originally red over black and standard with wood wheels. Wire wheels were optional according to some past Metz authorities no longer with us. Nice axle and wheels! I hope it finds a good home. W2

In 1913, Ford standardized the ignition coils to the new KW design. Before that, Coils and coil boxes were made by several different companies and used somewhat randomly on cars at the factory, with new changes in style and fit every year. 1908 into early '13 can be a lot of fun to sort out. I think there are at least a dozen different boxes and coils used in those few years. In addition to that, pre Ts and non-Fords also used even more boxes and styles and manufacturers. In the early days, Ford was NOT the only car to use a four coil system. It is not unusual to find one of those boxes on a model T either. Although I have been tinkering with model Ts for about 45 years now, I am not an expert on the early coils and coil boxes. I would suggest your friend contact someone who is an expert on them. There is also a fair chance that your friend may have coils and a box that may not quite match. The fit is different enough on them that many do not come even close. But some do get close enough to go in and not work right. You do want to deal with someone that really knows them well. The MTFCA website has a suppliers link page, the few of the coil people listed there are very good (under "specialty suppliers". Not all of them are as good with the early coils, they are a lot more difficult to get right. Some people do use modified or modern repro boxes that can run the common later coils. However, if properly rebuilt by someone that knows what they are doing? The early ones work just fine. I do have a couple of personal preferences for coil repair, but I am not certain who is really best for early coils. I also am not sure of the etiquette on this site for recommending vendors, or posting links to commercial sites? But if you can get a personal message to me, I could tell you who I prefer. W2 (Copied my reply from the General discussions thread)

In 1913, Ford standardized the ignition coils to the new KW design. Before that, Coils and coil boxes were made by several different companies and used somewhat randomly on cars at the factory, with new changes in style and fit every year. 1908 into early '13 can be a lot of fun to sort out. I think there are at least a dozen different boxes and coils used in those few years. In addition to that, pre Ts and non-Fords also used even more boxes and styles and manufacturers. In the early days, Ford was NOT the only car to use a four coil system. It is not unusual to find one of those boxes on a model T either. Although I have been tinkering with model Ts for about 45 years now, I am not an expert on the early coils and coil boxes. I would suggest your friend contact someone who is an expert on them. There is also a fair chance that your friend may have coils and a box that may not quite match. The fit is different enough on them that many do not come even close. But some do get close enough to go in and not work right. You do want to deal with someone that really knows them well. The MTFCA website has a suppliers link page, the few of the coil people listed there are very good (under "specialty suppliers". Not all of them are as good with the early coils, they are a lot more difficult to get right. Some people do use modified or modern repro boxes that can run the common later coils. However, if properly rebuilt by someone that knows what they are doing? The early ones work just fine. I do have a couple of personal preferences for coil repair, but I am not certain who is really best for early coils. I also am not sure of the etiquette on this site for recommending vendors, or posting links to commercial sites? But if you can get a personal message to me, I could tell you who I prefer. W2

I remember when this happened last year. Disgusting. Many years ago, I was ORDERED by a Califunny Highway patrolman to drive on the shoulder and stay out of the traffic lane with my model T. Now, years ago, gasoline was a lot better than it is today, and the average model T could do 55 mph. My T had an overdrive, and would do 55 mph all day if I wanted it to. The speed limit on that road was 55 mph, and I was keeping up with traffic. I was not in any way an unreasonable hazard. Driving on the shoulder IS illegal (except for emergencies or farm tractors). But another law does say that you MUST follow a CHP officer's orders. So I drove on the shoulder for about four miles. Then, hoping he had found someone else to hassle, I pulled back into the traffic lane. Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2

Peter G, I do need to say "Thank you!" for what you do here. On another hobby site I spend way too much time on, I often post a "thank you" to our webmaster there. I know he has a tough job tightrope walking over us cranky curmudgeons. I know you get to deal with that stuff too. Bad enough to deal with us, you get to deal with the spammers, hackers, and computer mentality. (No offense intended toward you personally). It is not technology I dislike. I worked for the better part of three decades in cutting edge technology. For a long time, I enjoyed it. Then directions changed. As technologies were emerging, our goal was to make things work, make things compatible, and do incredible things. Then the gamers and marketing took over. Promises were being made based upon having been able to do something once in a perfect lab setting. It all became about what you could SELL (whether it worked or not). And "engineers" became more interested in scoring points by being able to do something you cannot than they did about making anything actually work. To preserve what little sanity I had left, I got out of that business about ten years ago. Anyway. Thank you. W2

Many years ago, I had a 1925 Studebaker coach. In the course of Studebaker meets I met a fellow that had two '25 Duplex Phaetons. He loved to brag that there were only five left in the world, and he owned two of them. The problem was, I personally knew of seven of them. But that never stopped him. He continued to make the same claim for several years. That Buick is probably a lot more rare than a Studebaker Duplex Phaeton. Could be only three of them. Could be more than a dozen like it. The CCCA accepts a lot more cars now than they did thirty years ago. Several top of the line Buicks do qualify now, whereas there was only ONE (Smith) Buick that was accepted back about 1970. That particular model Buick MAY qualify, I don't know without doing some serious research. You would do better to check that directly with the CCCA director in charge of such things. The fact is, that MOST cars are NOT listed on any club rosters.

For what it is worth, I have a funnel with an 1/8 inch pipe fitting permanently installed in the small end. Remove the plug, and screw in the funnel. Easy pour, no muss, no fuss. Of course, it only works on the vacuum tank that does have the plug, like mine. I also had an original tank that had a 3/8 fitting and plug in it. Seems most Stewart vacuum tanks do not have the fill plug. But I seem to get lucky and have one that does. Like jrbartlett says, a car with a good starter should be able to pull enough gasoline with just a couple good cranks and the choke. I have had cars that I did that with a few times and worked just fine. Then again, I am not so sure that I want to try to do that with the hand crank on my model T boat-tail roadster. It has no electric starter. But the gasoline tank was moved way back to fit the body, so a vacuum tank was used to pull the fuel up to the front. I like it! The car and the vacuum tank.

I am not a Holsman expert, but know a little about them. They were unusual in the high-wheel type cars due to the fact that most of them used rope to drive the car forward. A small wheel pressed directly against the wheel/tire to drive the car in reverse. The same cross-shaft moved forward away from the wheel to tighten the rope. I believe a few of their cars did use chains, but I could not tell you when that was (it was a lo-ong time ago that I read a really good article on the marque). They were famous for their rope drive. I have in the past heard of a couple Holsman automobiles that were converted to a chain drive system. But that brings up a problem in that it may or may not be standard parts, and you may need to research directly with a farm or machinery supply to hopefully find something that will match what your car is needing. Another possible option may be that you might want to return the car to a correct rope drive (this is assuming that research does not show that yours was the unusual Holsman with chain originally). I have known a few people that toured a Holsman a bit. They say that the rope drive works pretty well. One of those fellows is currently rebuilding the engine (should be nearly done now) because it was really tired. But the rope drive was working fine. Nice cars! Enjoy it.

Peter Gariepy, Thank you for what you do. Been there, done that, hated it and don't want to do it again. All good clubs, national, local, or world wide, cannot be any good without people that will step up and do the work nobody else really wants to do. No matter what you do, a lot of people will gripe and complain, "Not that way!" Whine whine whine. I spent 25 years working with cutting edge technology. Fought with other engineers, fought with administration, fought with marketing. Our goal was always to make it work as best we could for the most people we could. The impossible task. Thank you. W2

I am not enough of an expert on this, but I would have some doubt about the Holsman qualifying for the London to Brighton Run. The British VMCC is much more strict than the USA automobile clubs, and require very strict vehicle dating. Holsman is one of the very few USA built high-wheeler automobiles that was manufactured early enough to maybe qualify for VMCC dating. Most high-wheel type cars built in the USA did not begin production until after the January '05 requirement of the VMCC. Most high-wheel cars in the USA were built to be sold in out country areas where roads were few, and usually in very poor condition. Their high wheels made them a bit more practical for the farmers in those areas, and also appealed to them by resembling the horse-drawn carriages that they were used to. While Holsman did begin production about 1902, most of the survivors are between 1906 and 1909 built cars. Dozens of companies built high-wheel cars between 1907 and 1912. Their low price, coupled with their practicality, helped their sales. But improving road conditions, along with the popularity of Ford's model T cut into the high-wheel automobile market. Holsman was one of only a few high-wheel cars manufactured in any sort of large numbers that was built early enough to qualify for the London to Brighton Run. You would need to check with the VMCC to have the car properly dated and accepted. Acceptance by them would add somewhat to the value of the car. Regardless, the Holsman is a very interesting car, as well as an unusual body style. I wish I could be in the market for one. More pictures of it would be nice to see however. W2

I wish my Paige looked this nice. If I live long enough, maybe I can get get mine put together. This one looks like a very nice preservation vehicle. Paige, and Jewett were among the hundreds of "also ran"s built in the '10s and 1920s. Paige had a rich and good history, and deserves to be remembered a lot more than they are. They turned a profit almost every year they were produced. This was a feat accomplished by only a few companies in those years where most producers went belly-up in under five years (and sometimes two or thee times). Paige was named the ninth largest producer of automobiles in America for one year. Another major accomplishment. Consider some the companies that beat them that year. Ford, all of General Motors, Chrysler, Dodge (then still separate), all of Willys Overland, all of Durant (including Star), Hudson/Essex. Off the top of my head? I do not know who number eight was. Paige Detroit Motor Car Company sold out to the Graham Brothers only because Harry Jewett had made his third or fourth fortune and in his 60s, was well ready to retire. Since the company had flourished so well for so many years under his guidance, nobody in the company wanted to try to fill his shoes. Additional problems were that General Motors, Ford, and Chrysler were buying up a lot of the Detroit area supply and production companies, and Paige had suffered production delays for a couple years because the companies that supplied most of their parts were disappearing. The Graham Brothers had just benefited from a huge settlement from the sale of Dodge to Chrysler (through a couple other sale attempts that failed), but which they had owned a lot of stock in. The Graham Brothers had wanted to continue producing automobiles, a step up from the production of trucks in partnership with Dodge. Taking over Paige seemed like the perfect fit to them. For about two years. Good luck with the sale of this car! I hope it gets a good caretaker. Sadly, I cannot be in the market to buy anything right now. Unless the owner wants to trade it for my model T coupe? (Not likely) And the shipping cost would probably kill it both ways. Drive carefully, and enjoy, W2