wayne sheldon

Well, I would "Thank You" for posting something like this. I have no interest in cars of that vintage (I prefer model Ts, nickel age, and horseless carriages). But I would think a lot of people should appreciate the opportunity to salvage a few rare bits from sinking into a swamp. I know there are a lot of people putting a lot of time and money into many cars of the '50s and '60s. And I know a lot of that trim work can be difficult to find. No, you won't fund your retirement, nor the kid's education off any of that stuff., But any effort to complete and preserve desirable collector cars (even of those vintages) should be a good thing. One major caution. Ownership. It is not worth a theft charge to save a tail-lamp, for almost anything. There are a lot of places where bits and pieces are good for the grabbing. But there are other places that are not. Know where you stand. I know where there is an Auburn I would love to haul out. But it is technically in a Federal park. And I ain't gonna touch it.

Oh, what the heck. Might as well stick my neck out and see if I can lower my approval rating. Artistic endeavors are often fraught with perils of misunderstanding. Still, I can't think of a better way to waste tens of thousands of dollars than to take a bunch of extremely rare and valuable historic auto pieces and butcher them until nobody likes the result. If I were ten years younger, and wealthy, I would have loved to take the truly rare Hupp and work to restore it to the work of art it was. But that is me. The fact is, any hotrodder with a bit of artistic tendency, could take any of a thousand common empty shells of '30s/'40s/'50s cars, and make something as extreme or cartoonish as that thing. , Without destroying a piece of history. Foot, firmly in mouth, and facetiously, me.

Thank You! Always nice to understand what is being said.

Wait until you need number 14 or number 16 machine screws. Yes, there did used to be such things. If I recall correctly, a number 12 is slightly smaller than a common quarter inch, while a number 14 is slightly larger, coupled with the numbered screws having a different thread pitch (count). A number 16 is slightly larger yet. Of course, one could always get into really old stuff, even early automobiles, but especially carriages and old machinery from the mid and late 1800s. Machine screws were originally made in matching lots and even individual pairs by machine shops and local blacksmith shops, each with their own preferences for sizing, and thread counts. The first solid efforts at standardization were in the early years of the 20th century. Henry Ford was one of the leading businessmen pushing for standardization because he was trying to buy parts and special order manufacturing from numerous suppliers (Wilson bodies and Dodge Brothers machine shop were only two of many). He wanted to be able to assemble his early cars quickly and efficiently without hassling with bolts that did not fit. He set very strict standards for his purchases, and the early SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) followed suit copying some of Henry's specifications, and making many of their own. The SAE was founded in 1905. Prior to that, sizes were pretty much anything goes, and their influence did not become widely accepted until about 1910. Many high wheel automobiles used non-standard nuts and bolts following the practices they had been using in the carriage industry for decades before.

I guess I don't know something. I have never heard of a "Wawa"? Must be a regional thing. Here in Calicorruptifornia,, it is nearly impossible to legally get non-ethanol gasoline for automobile use. It can be gotten at airports, but is a major crime to use in an automobile on the state roadways. I better shut up now.

Thank you so much for posting these (and the other thread as well) wonderful pictures! For some of us that cannot get there, it is delightful torture to see them. Truly, I do enjoy seeing them. Thank you.

I was wandering through the photos posted on another site, of the cars and sights at Hershey the few days past,. and what should be there? A Rickenbacker (two door I think) sedan (coach?). Smaller size, neat looking car. The amazing thing was, Except that this car was clean and shined up so nice, it looked just like the two door coach I saw nearly twenty years ago. Same color, just really sharp looking. The car I saw so many years ago looked like it might have been good enough to clean up and detail as a preservation car, although I would have speculated the paint was not the original. Both cars were red body, black fenders. The car almost twenty years ago I think had original interior, I didn't look close enough to see if it was usable or not. I just have to wonder. Could the car in Pennsylvania have been the same one I saw in Nevada so long ago? If so, someone did a great job making it look nice.

Xander, Now, THAT is funny!

Xander W, I cannot go into details. Suffice to say, I have severe family issues to deal with on a daily basis. Your comment hit me in ways you probably did not anticipate. However, worry not. I am not hurt, nor offended in any way. And, maybe, your comment was intended in exactly the way it hit me (believe me, I probably would have shrieked with delight if someone weren't going to sleep in the next room. The last puppy we got, basically for free, cost us over a thousand dollars for the five months we had him. I love dogs. It darn near killed me to have to be the one to take him to a new owner. And for all the misery he caused (he didn't do it intentionally, some people simply should not be allowed to have pets in the first place), the money he cost in food and supplies and etc, just hurt all the worse. I hope nothing I ever say hurts or offends you in any way either. I enjoy many of your comments. The ones I haven't enjoyed are probably only all the ones on threads I never read. Have a wonderful evening.

Cadillac? Maybe. Some record may exist from the first owner. I am not a Cadillac expert, and can't help you there. Many high end custom cars of that era did keep such records. Most average and medium cars of that era? Forget it. A few states did not even register cars at that time. Most states that did register cars, did NOT keep the records. Several states (like Califunny) had records kept for some years, then lost to a fire or other disaster. Then, there is the history that got in the way. The stock market crash of '29. The great depression that followed it. Many millions of people moved looking for work. Just about the time recovery was getting a good foothold, along came a world war. Nearly half the people in the nation were sent overseas or moved to where they were needed in manufacturing and other war efforts. For almost twenty years, cars of the 1920s were just old cars and basic transportation, and most people had much more important things to do (like find work and food) than to keep track of their car's provenance. Even after all that, most cars from the '20s did not become truly collectible until the '60s and '70s. Most of the cars I have had? Nothing was known before about the early '60s. Cars from the '10s and '20s with a known history back to when new? Are the exception, and not the rule. As much as it would be nice to have, for most cars of that era, that information simply does not exist. Still, that would be an incredible car if properly restored! It is a huge undertaking given its condition. But I have seen similar cars in similar condition done before. I have myself restored cars from worse. But never a car so grand as that Cadillac! I wish you well with it, whatever you decide to do.

A few simple FACTS. It IS NOT a REO Royale. It WAS a REO Royale. It IS a hot rod project. One that will cost whomever takes it on far more money to finish than it will ever be worth. Unless one could get it for free, it is a lousy investment. There are a handful of parts there (including that grill shell!) that are worth considerable money, but only as parts. Without more information on all the parts there, I won't speculate further on that. Many hotrodders like to have something different. That certainly is, and may well be sellable for the 5000 previously mentioned. Frankly, I wouldn't give a dollar for it if it was a mile from my house. I used to have a REO, and like them. They were great mid-price cars. Wishing you well.

Thank you so much for the wonderful travel-log. A wonderful car, and fantastic scenery. I look at so many of your pictures and am reminded of the old saying that "In England, they think 200 miles is far. In the USA, we think 200 years is old." Such incredible places to see. Again, Thank you.

HOWARD !! Take care of you my friend.

Has the notch out for the battery box in the frame below, and the later pressed steel latch handles, so 1919 at earliest (more likely 1920). The last year this style was used was 1922 model year. The '23 was still a low cowl and low radiator car, but the turtle deck that year looked like the '24/'25 style. Quite different. With a little tweaking, and not totally correct, this style can be made to work for clear back to 1914.

A quick warning about piston fit. These engines are known as the "cast iron wonder" and with upgrades were used by Chevrolet from 1929 into 1953 (and a few beyond). One of the reasons for the nickname, is that they used cast iron pistons originally. Original type cast iron pistons in these are usually fine, because they are a lightweight design (yes, that is possible). The problem comes about because many replacement pistons for these engines for going on eighty years now, are aluminum pistons. Aluminum expands more than cast iron does due to higher temperatures. This is called the coefficient of expansion. Many specifications you will see for these engines are the original specifications for the cast iron pistons (which expand with running temperatures about the same amount as the cylinder itself does). Cast iron pistons for a proper fit, should be at about .002 to .003 (inch) total clearance from the cylinder walls. Aluminum pistons get a bit more complicated. Modern engines, with full water jackets, and high pressure oiling, can run as close as '004 inch. Your Chevrolet should ideally be set at about .006 inch (largely due to the half water jackets) if it has aluminum pistons. Those Chevrolet engines are amazing. I had a worn out '52 many years ago. A quick and dirty overhaul with too much wear in the cylinders (you likely wouldn't believe me if I told you how bad it was), only burned oil at somewhat over 60 mph, and was driven daily for more than 60,000 miles before the transmission gave out.

Some antics about semantics. Colloquialisms abound. And for every reference that clearly says one thing? I have seen others that used the same words differently. All that said, the forum I spend most of my online time with often gets into severe discussions on what the "proper" words are (not just top assemblies, but many things including splash aprons). According to many, the top "irons" are the iron brackets built into the body that in turn support the entire top. These include the pivoting brackets that stick out from the seats as well as the brackets that the folded top rests upon. The usually steel sort-of tubular pieces of the top assembly (usually about a foot to two feet long, depending on marque and vintage) are usually called the top "socket"s (much like a lamp socket, the wooden bows insert into them and are then held in position). The "bows" (like a bow and arrow) are the curved wood pieces that span from side to side. It is a complicated subject. But language SHOULD mean something. And using the proper word is a good thing. However, language is also a fluid art. Words for hundreds of years have varied in their usage across small geographic divides. Historians can debate etymology (the study of word origins and evolvement), and perhaps we should try to improve our word usage. But, as long as we understand (or make clear) what we mean? All should be good. When I first got into this hobby, at least in my part of the country, the entire assembly was simply called the top bows. These days, for most cars, finding a complete top assembly is rare, and trying to put together a top usually involves a lot of effort on each individual section of the assembly. Therefore, the need to be clear about which pieces are being discussed. No offense meant toward anyone. Although I live only a few miles from John B, and have met him a few times, I do not personally know him, and have never needed his help with a top for any of my cars. However, I often hear from friends how wonderful and good he is.

Keiser31, I bow to the master. And not only do you post often? But you almost always have the right answer to someone's question! Again, I will bow to the master. Jack M, CONGRATULATIONS! And Whoo Hoo! Trimacar, And I do tend to be wordy. I have written many very long posts. A few on here, and a bunch on that model T site. I should have sat down and written a book.

I don't have it in front of me, nor do I have a good index. However, the "Antique Automobile" had a really nice high wheel issue back in the '60s as I recall. I treasure my copy. Okay, i couldn't just let it go, I went and found my copy. March 1963, V 27, No 2. A lot of good background on high wheelers in general In the early car crowd, there is a very devoted sub-group that loves their one and two cylinder pre'16s. There are several good size tours every year (for the past few decades) that are well attended. High wheel cars are not the most desirable, but do participate in good numbers (sometimes). There was an effort a couple years ago to form a high wheel club, but I guess it failed. At least the web site has been basically dead for nearly four years now. Of the many (about fifty if I recall correctly) ((I was off a bit, that issue lists 77 manufactures!)) different manufacturers of high wheel cars, the Sears and IHC are far and away the most popular, with Holsman third. That is of course partially because they are the ones which have more cars surviving. The IHC is the one toured the most often, and therefore generally the most desired and valuable. There are of course a few rare ones like Duryea that have a special historic connection that may be worth more. I see Sears and Holsman cars selling for between about twenty thousand and thirty thousand usually, in fairly nice condition. I would expect that a Duer would be worth slightly less (not a lot less). That is of course just my opinion based upon observation of watching these for several years. Good luck with yours, whatever you do decide to do with it. I do hope it gets a good home for many years to come.

Many many years ago, I saw a Rickenbacker on a nighttime tour I went on with an antique car group. Gorgeous all lit up. It was HUGE, and beautifully restored. It was about the size of a '27 Cadillac 7 passenger limousine that was also there. (Me and my puny '25 Studebaker standard.) The fellow that had the Rickenbacker had tried to get William Harrah to buy it. But Harrah already had a twin to it, also beautifully restored, so the story went. Maybe there are two of those huge beauties out there somewhere. Every Rickenbacker I have seen since, was about the size of my Studebaker, however, they were more elegant looking. Beautiful cars. I looked at a two door coach ('23 I think?) for sale almost twenty years ago. It needed a lot of work, but was sure tempting. I often wonder whatever became of that one also.

I think someone is trying to tease us with anticipation! I will never make that count here. However (Brag brag brag), I have over 9000 posts on a model T site that I spend WAY too much time on. And that count doesn't include nearly 3000 posts made before the site crashed several years ago. Regardless. Congratulations! And a "Whoo Hoo" when you make it.

Just a thought. AACA used to usually publish most of those awards in the "Antique Automobile" magazine. Every year, a few issues were mostly some photos and long lists of awards earned. I do not have nearly all the issues from those (or really any) years. A quick look at a few issues I have didn't find anything promising, but one minor maybe. It would help if I/we could know for certain what class the award was in? Or also in which national showing it was awarded. The publications always lagged a couple months behind the shows, so any showing in mid year 1980 might be published in late '80. Fall meet showings likely would not be published until early in '81 issues. On my quick look through several magazines, I did find one mention of a '29 Chrysler in class 18b (four wheel brakes, more than 4 and less than 8 cylinders, '20 through '29). However, it was a preservation award, and no body style was given. I think it was also likely a 1981 meet given the timing of the issue (late '81). So, other than a suggestion of where to try to look, I don't think I can be much help.

Looks modern. Well, '50s or '60s.

Well, I zoomed in as close as the limited quality picture would allow me to. I am fairly sure that it IS a Franklin. Hardly anybody else still used full elliptic front springs on a full size sedan that late. That means it probably also IS a CCCA classic. It also could mean that it has a wooden chassis main frame (If I recall correctly, last used in '28, someone please correct me if I am wrong). I couldn't quite tell in the picture. I also think I could see a bit of the air-cooling covers, and a few other Franklin details. About half the cars I have restored over the years came to me about that bad or worse. I, too, am one of those crazies that likes to restore what others throw out. However, I am afraid that my days of acquiring new projects are behind me. I already have at least six I hope to get done before I can do no more.

You should try shifting an original era Warford transmission in a model T racing car. (I LOVE it!!!) I have never even tried one of the new transmissions made to be easy to shift and yet look like the old style for a model T. I also prefer it with the original 25 disc clutch. Now, you guys can go back to talking about your modern cars.

My dad was the radio collector. He had more than 200 of them (mostly earlier than 1935) ranging from 1919 until about 1960. I tinkered with a few of them myself, and listened when he talked about them. As I recall, Atwater Kent did make some wonderful high end quality radios. But mostly, they are well known for the metal box radios from about 1927 through maybe '31. They were often called the "model T of the radio world" by collectors. A good value, affordable to the masses. One needs to remember that radio technology was growing by leaps and bounds in the '20s. A new state of the art radio was generally obsolete within two years through most of the decade. This is a wonderful photograph. A terrific blending of two of the technologies of that incredible era. The (by then) well established automobile. And the just really becoming common throughout the land, radio. Which in turn led to so many other technologies over the next 3/4 century. Not to forget, computers and the internet, upon which we get to share this photograph. Wonderful photo!