wayne sheldon

Electroplating a bumper and "chrome" plastic trim are two entirely different processes. I am no expert on either one. However I do not believe the two methods work interchangeably. I know what Rusty O says is basically true. I have talked with platers that claimed they could chrome ANYTHING, and I don't think they were lying. I saw a pair of chrome plated baby shoes once. The plater said he did it because a plater's kid's baby shoes shouldn't be "bronzed". While it may be possible to chrome plastic and steel together (I don't know?), I suspect the effort (and therefore cost) would be more than any savings by using plastics to fill pinholes. Usually, heavy copper plating is used to fill small surface defects. Copper plating is fairly simple, fast, and can be done heavily.

I find myself hoping that this thread also goes about twenty or more pages, lots of pictures (current and old) of a dozen or more different cars, with discussions of them all! You guys keep this up? And I will have to ask Santa for a really great reference book for the marque! So, okay then. Which one should I ask for? I know that there was a short discussion of the books near the middle of the other (Cooper) thread. I may have to go look for it in the wee hours of the morning. And my opinion on the above car? Definitely it looked MUCH better in its original form. But then I do lean heavily toward earlier cars in general.

1912Staver and 1937hd45 covered your additional question just fine! The brake handle ratchet is just a few inches forward of that starter button/switch. Two rivets on each end of the ratchet is early up through 1924. One rivet each end is 1925 with the rear cross member your frame has, as well as '26/'27 with a longer rear cross member. It looks like a nice straight frame. Very nice model Ts have been restored from less.

1925 (as well as '26/'27) will have the brake handle ratchet held onto the frame by only two rivets. All earlier ones were held on by four rivets. The '26/'27 model years had longer rear cross members. 1920 could be either forged or rolled channel running board brackets.

Well, I went straight from here to another website forum I spend way too much time on, and they had an "Identify this car" old photo that I think is a Buick also. Made me dig out my KImes and Clark book and look at Buick for a different detail. But while there, I checked with what they say. According to the specifications listed in KImes and Clark, the Buick standard series wheelbase is 114.5 inch, not the 116 I was thinking I remembered. Now, I know there are a few errors in that book? But for this I would believe what they say.

Not a '29. Everything I see says '28. I don't know if the bumper is a Buick bumper or not. They used several in those years. I don't recognize that bumper as being correct, but then again, I am not a Buick expert. I do know that some Buick master series did use a three bar bumper (many did not). However, I don't recall them having that "kick out" in the middle. But I could be wrong about that. I didn't see anything that gave the wheelbase. 120 inch and 128 inch were master wheelbases, depending upon body style (size). The standard was a 116 inch wheelbase if I recall correctly. I think (could be wrong here?), those figures work for 1926/'27/'28. I don't know the wheelbase for '29 models. The standard and master look so much alike, I can't tell them apart in most photographs (a real Buick expert may be able to?). A few details I do know, weren't shown in the pictures on the listing site. Most parts and many style details look alike, just a small size difference between standard and master series. Almost nothing interchanges between them. I know a couple details on the engine I can sometimes see in engine photos, but those were not shown in the one engine photo in the listing.

I doubt that it is a real Daytona. But it might be. The cowl doesn't look quite right. The rear bumper looks like the Weed (think tire chains) bumpers Paige used in the mid '20s. The fenders say "maybe?" And if it has the drawer seat, that was a feature used on only a few cars including Kissel Gold Bugs and Paige Daytonas (and a few others including some European stuff). I don't have my reference handy, but if it is a 6-66 Paige? Some parts of it may be worth something (don't think retirement account, it ain't that much). If it was close to me, I could be interested for cheap, only because I like Paige automobiles in general. A few years ago I could have been really interested. But I think I already have enough projects now that will take ten to twenty years more than I have left. Real Paige Daytonas in nearly perfect condition are moderately expensive cars. However, a person could easily spend seventy thousand dollars to turn that pile into a seventy thousand dollar car (IF it is a real Daytona). (Do the math.) Just for references sake, I tried to look up the one that has been for sale for awhile in the UK, but I guess it has been sold. Saw pictures, but no price listed that I found (It must still be out there in cyber-space somewhere?).

Black era radiator shell, top half of the windshield folds back, two-man style top. Model T touring car from 1917 through '22. Depending on the quality in the source for your photo, if it can be blown up to reveal more details? It could be narrowed down even more.

Thank you Bob R!

Oh, and Grimy, I just need to remind you that Coop's Duesy is not allowed on regular NATC tours. Some of us DO have standards you know! (Inside joke)

Califunny has several "Bay Areas", all of which consider themselves to be the only real "Bay Area". The San Francisco "Bay Area" where I grew up and have known a few major collectors certainly considers itself to be the "one and only real" "Bay Area". However, Monterey (home to Pebble Beach!) also calls itself the "Bay Area", as do a couple places in Southern Califunny. If this wonderful car is headed to the San Francisco Bay Area? Well. I have been looking for an excuse to go visit some good friends? As for continuing this thread? I am all for it! I may not have much to offer, other than the couple questions I asked awhile back and never saw answers to (no worries there). One simple question I have that someone should be able to give a quick answer to. Just how many Js were actually built originally? I see a lot of numbers being tossed around here that makes it sound like there were more of them than I had thought. I sure have enjoyed reading all the postings here! (Well, maybe two or three I didn't think should have been posted?) Thanks all!

Just now saw this on AACA parts for sale, doors, fenders, wheels, etc. Mentions some Buick fenders in that era. I don't know if he has what you need or not, but the timing is interesting.

Just a thought to consider. For whatever it is worth. Many years ago, my brother took a college course in Library Sciences involving preservation and restoration of books and documents. We talked about some of what they taught. He told me that when "wetting" a paper in order to unfold it without breaking the paper, use alcohol (basically rubbing alcohol). Water damages the paper fibers, results in stains or deterioration that causes the paper to break down. The alcohol does not damage or stain the paper, softens it and allows the paper to be bent and blocked without breaking. Then it evaporates cleanly. I have used it to soften and flatten paper and cardboard myself on several occasions. I do not know if it should be used on wood for that purpose or not? Wood glues may be adversely affected, so not soaking near any joints may be wise. It MAY help to spring wood framework without future rusting issues. Since I have not tried this myself? I would like for others with superior knowledge or experience to comment. Just an idea to consider.

Mike, Thank you for the information about the "Stepney" wheels! I have known of them for a long time, and a few years ago we had a discussion about them on a Model T Ford forum that I spend way too much time on. Unfortunately, nobody really knew much about them other than they existed, and a couple of photos had been found showing them in use. Now I know more than I did. The work seems to be progressing nicely on the Humberette! I think the car was very fortunate to get a great caretaker for its restoration.

I refer to it as Califunny for a lot of reasons. Otherwise known as the granola state. That what ain't fruits, or nuts, is flakes. Hey! I just live here! Really however. A lot of great antique automobile clubs here. HCCA Regional Groups, one of the most active Nickel Age Touring Clubs in the country. CCCA, more than a dozen local model T Ford clubs scattered along the state, pretty much all well represented. And who can argue against Pebble Beach! Coming up pretty quick!

I would like to be interested in that mess? But I cannot afford it (can't even afford the shipping) and I have reached the stage where I have enough projects to keep me busy for the rest of my life. Including the 1927 Paige sedan my dad bought in '67. Paige and Jewett have a excellent history, and deserve more recognition than they get. They were an assembled car, but better engineered than most. Harry Jewett was an engineer himself and insisted on high quality designs and components. Engines were usually Paige/Jewett exclusives, manufactured by different engine manufacturers to Paige's specifications. Locations of externals (manifolds, starter, generator, distributor, etc) varied from model to model. As for the Jewett six website. My understanding is that the fellow that maintained it for several years passed away a couple years ago. I don't know who is working on it now, but he seems to be trying to do a nice job. However, progress has been slow. I tried to contact him myself a year or two ago, but was unsuccessful and haven't tried to contact him since.

The stuff should just be used up. If you don't wish to use it in your cars? Give it to a hobbyist that would use it. The oil may be questionable for engine use (?) (I would consider using it?), but it would be fine for almost anybody for most things requiring a squirt from an oil can. The carbide? A lot of early model T owners are going back to using that stuff. It has become quite popular for gaslight drives at several major meets around the country. There are some shipping restrictions, so check with your local representative before dropping it in the mail. A simple consideration concerning environmentalism. Once a product has been manufactured, whether refined, processed, chemically altered, etc? Once it exists. It exists. And at some point in the future, it WILL reenter the environment. This whether it is recycled or used. Except for seriously toxic chemicals, it is usually better to use them for their intended purpose. Think about this. If it is used properly, it performs a task that yields some benefits. If it is recycled? It will to some extent still reenter the environment, but yield no benefits. Then, another chemical will be manufactured to replace it and do the task this product was made for. That product will also impact the environment through its manufacturing process. It will also have to reenter the environment at some future time. How can NOT using these things actually do more for the environment than manufacturing even more stuff, including the packaging one will buy it in? This is especially true for things like oils and paints. Just a thought.

I know a fellow in Auburn Califunny that has done everything from a Caterpillar to a Stutz. He is good. However, being on a world wide web? Your location is also very important. Let me know if the Gold Country Sierra works for you.

A wonderful thread I have enjoyed it very much! (I mean, who can't love a Duesenberg?) So, I figure maybe I should ask my question. I was very fortunate to have had the opportunity to get to know Jack Passey. My dad had attended college with Jack's brother Bill. So when I started showing a strong interest in antique automobiles? Of course, one of the first places we went to was Jack's place. My favorite of all the Duesenbergs I have seen (I did tour through the display the Imperial Palace had about twenty some years ago), was Jack's (then) black roadster ( I guess it was actually a convertible coupe?). Does anyone here know whatever became of that car? I don't recall ever seeing the "Mae West" car, and although I know Jack really liked the Le Baron Phaeton he had after that, somehow I always preferred the clean lines of that black roadster with the top down. I understand that the Le Baron Phaeton became part of the Otis Chandler collection (after an incredible restoration!). But what became of the Mae West car and the other convertible coupe I don't know. Me, just wondering. And thank you all for your tales and reminiscences of Duesenbergs past and present!

I look forward to and hope to see many updates and details of the restoration of this wonderful piece of automotive history! Enjoy the journey once more.

I have read a lot about this race over the years. It amazes me how much certain details have been forgotten. All completing cars received some penalties, including the Thomas. after the finish times were totaled with the various penalties, the Thomas was the winner. The key penalty was that the original route included shipping the cars from Seattle to Alaska and run across part of that territory. The Thomas, first to reach Seattle (in part due to the railroad trick), was shipped to Alaska, and found the extra severe previous winter had left the roads (what little there were there) unusable. The other cars, instead shipped directly to Japan where they crossed that nation's narrow streets. The Thomas, meantime, was shipped back down to Seattle, then transferred to another ship to cross to Japan after the others were done there. THAT delay put the Thomas way behind. The resulting penalties the other cars got and the Thomas did not (because they WENT to Alaska), were the difference that made the Thomas the winner. When the time for the side trip to Alaska is taken out? The Thomas, that arrived in Paris second, was actually the fastest car. Barely. From all I have read, I think the international group that tried to referee this race tried to be as fair as they could be. There have been all kinds of nationalistic accusations (then and still!) (Always seems to be that way?). But with violations of rules both major and small, breakdowns, some sabotage attempts, changes in routes etc? And let us not forget that the Thomas crew pulled one of their competitors out of a mud bog in the middle of Russia! I think they did good.

And don't forget Terry, what they call a "boot" is what we call the "trunk". Two nations separated by a common language. I have always been fascinated by English automobiles. Humberette built some really interesting models from early and for quite a few years!

Yours is not the first model T handle I have seen modified that way. Ford crank handles were intended to be used, that is why they remained connected to the engine until the end of model T production. That is also why, in spite of Ford's well known efforts to squeeze every penny out of production costs that he could, Henry left the handle with a functional handle-grip that spun on the crank instead of in the cranker's hand. I suspect that when some car owners of non-Ts fell upon hard times, unable to afford proper maintenance, they sought out model T crank handles and fitted them with a simple pin to work in their other cars. I have crank started a few non-Ts over the years (a few model As, my '29 Reo, a Studebaker, among others) ( not counting other horseless carriages, of course). Some, just for kicks and giggles, others because of a failed starter or battery. It doesn't take many tries with the typical "back-up crank" to raise a nice crop of blisters on one's palm. A glove or a rag can help a lot. But a simple (and in those days readily available) modified model T handle was much better yet! Thank you for passing these along to people that can use them! And if nobody wants the model T one, I could use another, but you did say you thought it was already spoken for.

Hey Carl, I tell ya, ten years ago I would have wanted to jump on that! I have always had a fondness for Paige automobiles, and their history. They are probably one of the best "also rans" and very undervalued history-wise. Rarely seen on tours, but a few owners I know love driving them and say they are very reliable. Paige had some interesting styling, and I could probably have done something good with what I see there. But that was ten years ago. The realities of my today isn't so good. Bad family, plus financial realities have hurt a lot. All the good cars I had are gone, but I have about five good project cars already that I need to try to do something with (including the '27 Paige my dad bought in '67!). So as much as I see potential there (I have resurrected worse!)? I just have to torture myself for awhile and try to get back to work on a couple others. I sure wish somebody would step up and save it though.

FYI, Number one appears to be a model T Ford handle used from late 1914 into early 1920. They were of course originally kept on the engine and use a different coupler to engage the crankshaft. It looks like yours has a pin in the hole to be removable and used for some other car. That likely was done by someone needing a hand crank for some other car. The way to know for sure, would be to look for a very small hole right at the beginning of the first bend in the crank which would have had a small spring to push the handle away from the motor when not being cranked by hand therefore to avoid rattling against the running motor when going up hills (btdt). That little hole can be hard to find as it is small, often filled with dirt or rust, and there was no one specified location for it.