MCHinson Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 I don't know the part number but I would suggest you check with Dave Tacheny. He probably has what you need. If not, this might work for you: https://www.ebay.com/itm/NORS-1940-52-BUICK-DISTRIBUTOR-VACUUM-ADVANCE-1116065-1116046/132596580776?hash=item1edf5f41a8%3Ag%3AfIAAAOSwDCxa33mv&_sacat=0&_nkw=1948+buick+vacuum&_from=R40&rt=nc&_trksid=m570.l1313 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Or possibly this one, found by searching the part number shown in the first ebay listing: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1940-41-42-46-47-48-49-50-51-52-BUICK-VACUUM-CHAMBER-1116065/332724945626?hash=item4d77f3c2da%3Ag%3AB3AAAOSwTE1bLU-q&_sacat=0&_nkw=1116065&_from=R40&rt=nc&LH_TitleDesc=0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Or another from searching the second part number listed in the original ad: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1938-1951-NOS-VINTAGE-VULCAN-VACUUM-CHAMBER-V-325-VC-6-REPLACES-1116046-BUICK/123209297673?hash=item1cafd8af09%3Ag%3AQcEAAOSwzNZbLr~N&_sacat=0&_nkw=1116046&_from=R40&rt=nc&_trksid=m570.l1313 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipj Posted July 20, 2018 Author Share Posted July 20, 2018 Hello Matthew, the first eBay link looks more like it, on the second the arm looks a bit different unless is the angle of the photo... I have the one off my car in my hand, unfortunately, some kind of aftermarket, no number... I cannot blow through it and I can move the arm and hear the diaphragm but I know it is no good... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryB Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Can you tell me your distributor number and year of your engine? I can check some books for aftermarket parts. Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipj Posted July 20, 2018 Author Share Posted July 20, 2018 The engine is from a 1948 Buick Roadmaster S/N 50650397... The distributor data plate was damaged by media blast, so the number is not visible... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryB Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Ok, close enough. Glad to hear you are making progress! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryB Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Delco number I find is 1116065. Same from 1940-1952. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipj Posted July 20, 2018 Author Share Posted July 20, 2018 Hello Terry, Thank you, do you know if Delco 1116020 is the same as 1116065? They seem identical though the 1116020 is for a 1940 Cadilac V8. https://www.ebay.com/itm/273363274599 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 From a 1960 Filko (aftermarket) ignition parts catalog: Distributor is 1110801 Vacuum advance is 1116046 or 1116065 (1938-52 ALL BUICKS) The Cadillac flathead vac adv has been unobtainium for decades, but what WORKS (from my 42 years of owning such a car) is a 1942-48 Olds 8-cyl **BUT** you substitute the spring from your old Cad advance into the Olds one. On this and some other cars the only difference was the spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryB Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 My Delco reference from 1955 shows the 1116065 part number. Another parts book for GP brand ignition parts shows the vacuum chamber part to be 1116046. I would tend to believe the Delco parts reference first and maybe the GP one second. No other GM uses the 1116065 unit. I’m trying to find my Blue Streak parts book to see what they list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryB Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 No luck finding any more references. I’ve sold off most of my reference books and the ones I still have are too new. Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFitz Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 5 hours ago, philipj said: Hello Paul, You may be on to something here, it makes sense... The challenge will be to find a replacement diaphragm since when I had the distributor out you could not see any model number or visible information on the tag... I will start the search 37-52 GM vacuum advance... Since they work on square area equals force, you only need a vacuum canister the same diameter and travel as your original. It's the return spring tensions that can vary to change the advance curve for the same size canister used on different engines. Then, like has been mentioned already, just reuse your return spring with a canister of the same diameter. But it might save you looking if you check yours first with a vacuum source to see if it actually is leaking. Paul 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 10 minutes ago, PFitz said: But it might save you looking if you check yours first with a vacuum source to see if it actually is leaking. And lube the pivots, and (as recommended previously by someone) ensure that the travel of the plate when vacuum is applied is free and unhindered. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFitz Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, philipj said: Does anyone know the original Delco # for the vacuum advance on a 1948 Roadmaster? Unless all the smaller engines have the same distributor and components, but I don't know that... My Delco replacement parts book (dated 9-1-50) lists #1116046 distributor vacuum control, for all Buick 1938-50. Doesn't differentiate by model or engine. Paul Edited July 20, 2018 by PFitz (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFitz Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 10 minutes ago, Grimy said: And lube the pivots, and (as recommended previously by someone) ensure that the travel of the plate when vacuum is applied is free and unhindered. Good point ! Yes, if it were sticking, that would account for the erratic behavior. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Afterthought: Do the Buick plates advance and retard on three small bearings in a groove cut into the inside of distributor housing? Cadillac plates do. Those ball bearings get flat spots from lack of lube over time. Mic the balls and buy new ones at the hardware store, and check the "race" surface machined into the distributor body. There were aftermarket kits (and I may still have one new in the envelope) that consisted of a snap-in race to fit into the groove in the distributor body. In Cadillacs, at least, the symptom was that the plate would not fully retard when the engine was shut off, making starting a bit more difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipj Posted July 21, 2018 Author Share Posted July 21, 2018 I had the distributor apart since I replaced the upper plate... It was fun putting the 3 balls together. Ther entire thing is well greased through the fitting and moves freely back and forth... Wonder if the balls have flat spots though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipj Posted July 21, 2018 Author Share Posted July 21, 2018 As luck would have it, Dave Tacheny (God bless him) saved my neck with Delco#1116046 vacuum control... I just got lucky! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 Philip, I just checked my inventory and DON'T have the snap-in liner--sorry. Even with a new vacuum advance installed, consider using a vacuum pump ("Mity-Vac" or similar) to advance the plate (vacuum applied) and retard it (no vacuum) to ensure that it moves smoothly and doesn't jerk when moving either way. If it does hang up or drag, you need new balls! :-) Of course, this is done with engine off and distributor cap off. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 I seem to remember someone very recently showing a flat bearing system that replaced the three ball system on which the auto advance rotated in the distributor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipj Posted July 21, 2018 Author Share Posted July 21, 2018 Hello George, I am not aware of this snap-in liner... Is that something I am missing in the distributor that I should have? I am also stuck without a vacuum pump for the test... I am able to push on the condenser and move the plate and the release... It does not appear to stick, but I am worried about flat spots on the 3 balls now as being a potential problem... And also intrigued about that flat bearing system... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 Hi Philip, the snap-in liner was an aftermarket Band-Aid, reasonably effective, which was an addition to the factory machined-in groove (actually, more of a channel) on the inside of the dist housing in which the three balls move. As I recall (I sold the Cad ten years ago), the incomplete-circle liner fit into the groove/channel to make a race for the balls (which were probably a bit smaller in the liner kit than OEM), to compensate for any rough spots in the groove/channel caused by flat spots on the balls. (Now THAT is a run-on sentence!) You can clamp on some rubber tubing to the vacuum line and suck on it to apply vacuum. Good grief, this is almost an X-rated thread! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 The recent discussion about the replacement for the ball bearing system can be found here: I purchased one of the updated Delco Remy 1914446 updated distributor plates a while back on ebay. I have not yet installed it. If I ever have any troubles, I will install it. There is one on ebay right now also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipj Posted July 21, 2018 Author Share Posted July 21, 2018 (edited) Thank you for the link, Matthew... The plate used for my distributor was Delco 1865968 since the wire holder was broken on the original one... I just found online the Dyna-flyte 880 D kit, which should work for my vehicle? Despite my recent fix, this is the way I need to go... Edited July 25, 2018 by philipj (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JACK M Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 Try this. Plug the vacuum source. If I recall the car will run well with the vac disconnected from the advance and the source plugged. Leave the hose on the vac advance Now suck on the that hose and see if that creates the stumble. You don't need some fancy vacuum tool to manually advance the distributor. You should be able to advance the distributor with your mouth. You should be able to get to a place where you can put your tongue over the end of that hose and hold vacuum. If you cant then the diaphragm is bad. If I am reading your symptoms correctly this should duplicate your bad running issue. If you have a long enough hose you could try this while driving. Basic trouble shooting farm style. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 If you install ANY Dyna-Flite, I suggest you warm the unit and remove all the old dried-out, hard-packed grease, then re-grease (preferably with synthetic chassis grease). I've never seen one with factory grease that I'd consider putting in my car without the process just described. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akstraw Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 I think that the vacuum advance could be the source of the problem, having dealt with a similar issue, and similar frustration, on a 56 Caddy. As somebody said recently in some car magazine or forum, "ninety percent of carburetor problems can be traced to the distributor." I just read an article in the Franklin Club magazine about problems traced to low spring tension on modern replacement ignition points. Perhaps this is another potential cause to investigate. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipj Posted July 22, 2018 Author Share Posted July 22, 2018 Oops! I just realized this is for dual points... Can I still use it with a single point distributor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curti Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 3 hours ago, philipj said: Oops! I just realized this is for dual points... Can I still use it with a single point distributor? With an Auburn, a supercharged car has a dual point dist. and non s/c has a single point system. The cars will run with the wrong distributors, but not well. It is all about the advance curve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipj Posted July 22, 2018 Author Share Posted July 22, 2018 I was specifically referring to the Dyna-Flyte 880-D distributor plate kit having two posts for points, but only using one post for my aplication... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RansomEli Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 I used the clothespin treatment for my '56 Oldsmobile. Seemed to work. However, it just looked silly, so I wrapped the line with several layers of aluminum foil. That also worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipj Posted July 25, 2018 Author Share Posted July 25, 2018 On 7/22/2018 at 5:39 PM, philipj said: I was specifically referring to the Dyna-Flyte 880-D distributor plate kit having two posts for points, but only using one post for my aplication... Does anyone know the answer to this question? or should I just deal with two sets of points? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryB Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 37 minutes ago, philipj said: Does anyone know the answer to this question? or should I just deal with two sets of points? I’ve never encountered that situation so I can’t reply with any useful info. Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 If I understand you correctly you bought a dual point aftermarket distributor plate. I don't think anybody here has ever attempted to use one of those in a similar car. I have no idea if it will work as a replacement distributor plate for you or not. I guess you can return it and get the correct part, or you can try it and see if it works. Those are about your only two options at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipj Posted July 25, 2018 Author Share Posted July 25, 2018 I have not purchased it yet, but going by the information found, they seem to be the best/most durable alternative even over the Delco repair kit (1914446) that I was also considering... So, I am sort of stuck with that in mind, but cannot find one anywhere! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 The original distributor plate on mine works fine. Since it is 80 years old, I am not too worried about it. I bought the OEM upgrade, 1914446 but am waiting to have a problem before I bother installing it. Simply properly diagnosing and repairing the original should get another 80 years or so of use. It is possible you are overthinking this issue. Why would you consider buying something that you are not sure would work? Have you received the new vacuum advance from Dave Tacheny yet? From what you have posted, that is most likely going to fix your problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipj Posted July 26, 2018 Author Share Posted July 26, 2018 True, sometimes I tend to overthink things; on the other hand, if I am dealing with that one issue (distributor) I rather do all I can do now, so I won't have to touch it ever again... It is very annoying to revisit something, hence my perseverance in trying to find the best possible replacement plate (Dyna-Flyte 880). I have had a couple of small hiccups while driving with the vacuum line disconnected, so it thought that original 3 ball design might be the culprit-being well known for causing driveability problems... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonMicheletti Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 I have two '38 Buicks and have had one a very long time. The only trouble I ever had with the distributor advance was dirt and crud building up in the ball track in the body of the distributor. Cleaning that fixed things. As Mat said - it has worked OK for 30 years. It will still work OK. As far as that multi ball breaker plate goes, since it has lots of balls, the chance od dirt getting in thte balls is that much greater - and dirt in the balls was the problem I had with my distributor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWLawrence Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 The after market dual point distributor plates were probably an improvement over the stock single point plates they replaced. IIRC they used two of the stock breaker point sets. They worked in parallel with one point set opening first and the second opening later to break the circuit and make the spark. This resulted in a more degrees of dwell and increased spark voltage. They were a quality made product and worked well. Early Chrysler V8s used a similar setup. The idea was to have a hotter spark in 6 volt systems. In regards to clothes pins on the fuel line: These were used when the fuel feed to the carburetor was by gravity. Vapor lock occurs in the unpressurized part of the fuel system. A leaking distributor vacuum chamber will deal all kinds of problems from almost unnoticeable to an engine barely running or failing to run. The leak makes a lean fuel mixture and results in over heating and a decrease in performance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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