39 Chrysler starter problem

[Reg Evans]

Suddenly one day a few months ago my 39 Chrysler Royal with a 241 L6 would only make a clicking sound when depressing the starter button.  I pulled the starter and took it to a place that rebuilds starters and it still doesn't work.  Just clicks still even though I installed a new battery and a new starter button.  Anyway.....anyone know where can I find this type of solenoid shown in the photo.  It's different than most I've seen. 

Thanks

 

[keiser31]

Sounds more like a bad ground on the connections.

[JACK M]

Reg,

Is there any way you could manually push the starter gear into the flywheel in an effort to test the solenoid?

Not saying you are on the wrong track, but I hate to spend money on the wrong thing.

Of coarse as Keiser suggests connections are important as well.

Some tests with a volt meter might be in order.

[Reg Evans]

Thanks guys.  I cleaned and sanded all connections to the starter , battery, and starter button.

I'll try manually shoving the starter gear into the flywheel.   Fingers crossed......  could it be out of alignment ?

[oily rag]

You may need to work on the solenoid. Check everything out on a bench, have it  clamped down.

[Rusty_OToole]

Some of the old solenoids could be take apart and repaired. If not perhaps a specialist like Andy Bernbaum Chrysler parts can furnish a new one.

[c49er]

A good old time starter generator re-builder would know very quickly whats up with your starter. You need really good heavy battery cables and an Excellent ground to the body and the engine.

Do you hear both a click and a heavier clunk ( solenoid pulling the drive gear into the flywheel) ?

Those solenoids of that style can be taken apart to quickly see whats the issue.

Could possibly be the large diameter copper contact washer to Motor and Battery cable stud wear issue. Meaning No power to the starter windings or a pinion gear adjustment.

That solenoid if found will cost dearly....they are hard to find... I think a # SS4206 Autolite.... not even saying that's the problem

More diagnostics required!

[Hudsy Wudsy]

By all means try taking apart the solenoid. I used to have good results by cleaning up the large copper washer and the mating stud surfaces. You may find better results by simply rotating the washer 90 degrees and the studs 180. If you are able to rotate them, you'll have fresh contact surfaces.

 

[Reg Evans]

Well, supposedly the starter/generator repair shop did this.  In fact I brought it back to them a second time.  I've never had this happen before but could the starter be out of alignment ?  I've r and r'd plenty of old MoPar starters but they were all the older foot pedal stomp type.  I've been working on another car lately and haven't gotten back to this problem yet.

[countrytravler]

On 4/1/2017 at 4:35 PM, c49er said:

A good old time starter generator re-builder would know very quickly whats up with your starter. You need really good heavy battery cables and an Excellent ground to the body and the engine.

Do you hear both a click and a heavier clunk ( solenoid pulling the drive gear into the flywheel) ?

Those solenoids of that style can be taken apart to quickly see whats the issue.

Could possibly be the large diameter copper contact washer to Motor and Battery cable stud wear issue. Meaning No power to the starter windings or a pinion gear adjustment.

That solenoid if found will cost dearly....they are hard to find... I think a # SS4206 Autolite.... not even saying that's the problem

More diagnostics required!

 

You would have been a great auto shop teacher. Were you ever one?? Thanks for all the detailed pictures and the explanations that you do. More far reaching than you think.

Dave

[1941_Saratoga]

Boy, this problem sounds familiar to me. I was having the same problem last year and it was a bear to track down. I cleaned all the contacts in the starter, new battery cables, cleaned starter button, etc., etc., etc. and fortunately lucked into a NOS solenoid on eBay. That did the trick - haven't had an issue since.

 

Just curious, if you (lightly) tap the side of the starter when someone else is depressing the starter button with ignition on, does the starter turn over? I'd imagine the starter rebuilder you took it to bypassed the solenoid and tested the start directly? Do you know if he did that? I wasn't sure from your post if he actually rebuilt your starter and was able to get it running on the bench.

 

Dave

[Reg Evans]

Hi Dave,

Supposedly the repair shop cleaned all the contacts in the solenoid and bench tested it with the solenoid installed.  My friend removed it and brought it to them both times so this is only what I was told.  It looks like Kanter has a solenoid but they want a fortune for it. 

I guess if you want something done right you have to do it yourself.  I'll try tapping on it next time I try it out.  Thanks !

Does your starter and solenoid look just like mine in my initial post ?

[Bloo]

That looks like a Delco solenoid to me. Is it? On a Chrysler?

 

ALMOST everything on that solenoid is rebuildable.

 

The adjustment on the front just sets the pinion depth. There should be a spec in the manual for that. The copper disc has a little spring so that it can bottom out on the copper bolts a little before the solenoid bottoms out. Copper discs if not available can often be taken off and turned upside down. Copper bolts often have half of the heads burned off. They can be replaced. If not available sometimes they can be turned around backwards to get the full height back around the side that contacts the disc.

 

The only thing that cant be fixed is a bad winding. There are 2 windings, check continuity on each of the  two windings. I would really need to see the manual to tell you more. Is there a relay inside the cover? If so, look for one winding to be from one of the relay contacts to one of the copper bolts on the solenoid. The other one should be from the same relay contact but to ground.

 

If the windings are good, you can rebuild it. If not, its gonna be expensive. Good luck.

Edited April 7, 2017 by Bloo (see edit history)

[Hudsy Wudsy]

I don't think that this is your problem, Reg, but I'll mention the ground cable, only because when those do go bad, or the connection where it bolts to the engine or frame goes bad, they can look fine, but have too much resistance for a high draw item like a starter to work. You guys are going to think I'm nuts, but years ago I had one old Mopar that would act up in moist weather and the only way I could get the starter to function was to put on the headlights first to help create a circuit. It took a while to figure out it was the ground cable.

Edited April 7, 2017 by Hudsy Wudsy (see edit history)

[1941_Saratoga]

Yes Reg, that is the same setup I have in my C30. The Autolite SS-4206 solenoid is a rare find online, and as C49er mentioned, it's not cheap, so I would try bench testing the unit. You can do it with your 6v battery and some jumper cables. Make sure it's clamped down, because there's a lot of torque in that starter when it kicks over. You can test it through the solenoid and also bypass it and test the starter directly. That will tell you quite a bit.

 

Dave