Expanding on Tom Cox's editorial

[Frantz]

As a younger member I enjoyed Tom's article, and I have to fully agree on the "why would you want that" mentality we often have. The one I hear the most is along the lines of how much better my funds would be spent on a different project. I have a good collection of under $2000 projects to pick from in my collection already, and all of them are completely safe of times I need money to pay bills, because none of them are quick or valuable sells. Why would I want to restore a 4 door Ford when the restoration cost is the same for a 2 door? Why buy an AMC when mint isn't worth all that much? Why consider my '82 Rampage, when for the money I'll have in that I could do a proper antique? If someone wants to truly restore a 1990 Omni then that's awesome! While most suggestions are kind and meant to make sure I don't get discouraged by burying myself in a car I won't be able to get out of, if I just want to have the car, then market value isn't a factor. I get that you're just looking out for me and others like me, but such thoughts are why hot rods happen! Wasting $10-20k on restoring an undesirable car is good for the hobby if it's what I enjoy, even if that restoration doesn't quite get it to 400 points.

[John_S_in_Penna]

2 hours ago, Frantz said:

As a younger member I enjoyed Tom's article, and I have to fully agree on the "why would you want that" mentality we often have.

...Why would I want to restore a 4 door Ford when the restoration cost is the same for a 2 door? Why buy an AMC when mint isn't worth all that much?... 

 

Well said, Mr. Frantz!  And Tom said it well, too, speaking of younger members' interests:

"If we don't share our love and passion for our cars, we are doomed.

I beg of you to be more accepting of that 1981 Chevrolet Citation or Ford Pinto.

They may not seem very collectible to you, but they are to their owners. ..."

 

You can go to any major show or auction and see a 1953 Buick Skylark

or Chrysler 300 or other top car of the 1950's.  Glamorous but common!

In fact, there are seven  '53 Skylarks for sale on Hemmings' website right now.

Let's be sure to embrace cars that are newer but haven't been seen in 30 years. 

Today on the road I saw a pretty nice 1979 Chevrolet Malibu in 2-tone green,

and it was interesting.  That's a car to which many people can relate, but when

did you last see one?  If an AMC Concord wagon was on a show field, for instance,

it would be at least as scarce as any Chandler or Frazer.

 

I find it easy to agree with Tom, and already have a 1995 model waiting to 

become an antique.

 

 

Edited March 14, 2017 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[Larry Schramm]

8 hours ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

 

Well said, Mr. Frantz!  And Tom said it well, too, speaking of younger members' interests:

"If we don't share our love and passion for our cars, we are doomed.

I beg of you to be more accepting of that 1981 Chevrolet Citation or Ford Pinto.

They may not seem very collectible to you, but they are to their owners. ..."

 

You can go to any major show or auction and see a 1953 Buick Skylark

or Chrysler 300 or other top car of the 1950's.  Glamorous but common!

In fact, there are seven  '53 Skylarks for sale on Hemmings' website right now.

Let's be sure to embrace cars that are newer but haven't been seen in 30 years. 

Today on the road I saw a pretty nice 1979 Chevrolet Malibu in 2-tone green,

and it was interesting.  That's a car to which many people can relate, but when

did you last see one?  If an AMC Concord wagon was on a show field, for instance,

it would be at least as scarce as any Chandler or Frazer.

 

I find it easy to agree with Tom, and already have a 1995 model waiting to 

become an antique.

 

 

 

A lot of high volume cars that sold millions of vehicles and were popular in the times are almost non existent today.  Besides the Pinto, try to find a Vega, Gremlin, Falcon, Monza, the old GM X cars or any other number of vehicles.  I like to see persons maintaining these vehicles because they are part of the car culture history.

[John_S_in_Penna]

4 hours ago, Larry Schramm said:

A lot of high volume cars that sold millions of vehicles and were popular in the times are almost non existent today.  Besides the Pinto, try to find a Vega, Gremlin, Falcon, Monza, the old GM X cars or any other number of vehicles.  I like to see persons maintaining these vehicles because they are part of the car culture history.

 

Excellent point, Larry!

AACA says they have missed an entire generation of car collectors.

It is also happening that we are missing almost an entire generation of cars.

 

Here's to those people caring for the forgotten vehicles of the 1970's and 1980's!

Edited March 14, 2017 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[Larry Schramm]

36 minutes ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

 

Excellent point, Larry!

AACA says they have missed an entire generation of car collectors.

It is also happening that we are missing almost an entire generation of cars.

 

Here's to those people caring for the forgotten vehicles of the 1970's and 1980's!

 

I had an '84 Buick Skylark T Type as a company car in '84.  I wish I had that car today.  It was an incredibly fun car to drive at a very economical price.  I had (for the time) the high output V-6, sport suspension, 4 on the floor, sunroof, etc.  It had every option except an automatic transmission and that was by design because I wanted a drivers car.  It was the most memorable car of all of the cars of the era that I drove.

Edited March 14, 2017 by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

[John_S_in_Penna]

And for clarity, the original poster is referring to the

AACA president's message in the March-April 2017 

issue of the magazine Antique Automobile.

My copy arrived in the mail just yesterday.

[poci1957]

2 hours ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

 

Excellent point, Larry!

AACA says they have missed an entire generation of car collectors.

It is also happening that we are missing almost an entire generation of cars.

 

Here's to those people caring for the forgotten vehicles of the 1970's and 1980's!

 

I am with you John S and Franz!

 

Full disclosure I have not read the Tom Cox piece as I just got my magazine, but I totally contend that 1970s and 1980s cars are the next generation of interest in antique cars.  Unfortunately they have been treated with disrespect from previous generations since they were new but they are often an excellent choice for a collector car IMO. 

 

I think one of the biggest drags on the hobby has always been old timers disparaging a 20-30 year old car as too-recent “used” car.  For a while it was prewar guys who did not like postwar cars and before that it was brass guys not interested in anything after 1915.  It is time for the 1970s and 1980s cars like it or not.  Their popularity will not be as universal as muscle cars and full restorations will be much less common, but for anyone currently 30-50 these are the cars we grew up with and for anyone under 30 they are the makings of fun nostalgia usually for much less $$$ than a 1960s model.  I support anyone interested in preservation or restoration of such cars, Todd C 

 

[Terry Bond]

I must repeat a story I've told before to many folks.  While my heart is in the brass age, and stretches to the muscle car era, I vividly recall being stuck in traffic on a multi-lane road headed home after a tough day at the office.  I noticed a lane or two over, several cars ahead of me, the rear end of a shiny maroon Chrysler Mini-van with the woodgrain applique.  As traffic moved and I got closer, it became obvious what I was looking at was indeed a first generation, circa 1984 Chrysler Mini-van with a beautiful paint job, fantastic woodgrain, and looking very much like it belonged on a showfield.  Memories flooded back - my late father-in-law had bought one of those first year vans and our family has owned a steady succession of them ever since!  As I got closer to it, I realized it was being piloted by a young lady.  As I drew along side of it, I rolled down my windows and gave her a big thumbs up.  She rolled down her window and told me it was the family van and she had inherited it, had it repainted and was keeping it 100% original.  As the light changed, she said "someday it'll be an antique" and I shouted "AACA" to her.  I never saw it again, but it was at least a thrill to see it.  Yes indeed, they belong on our showfield, and thanks for AACA's 25 year rule for bringing them out for us to see, and allowing/encouraging younger folks to get into the hobby.  Bring-em on.  And thanks to Tom for stepping to the plate.

Terry

[John_S_in_Penna]

Collectors can broaden their horizons.

While cars of the 1960's are very popular, I think

that even their popularity is narrowly focused on a

small part of production, especially the mid-size and 

muscle cars, and some of the convertibles.

How often do we see, for example, a 1969 Mercury

Marquis, a 1967 Buick Electra 2-door hardtop, 

a 1969 Chrysler Newport convertible at shows?

Yet we can go to an Oldsmobile show and see

a third of the show-field filled with Cutlass 4-4-2's,

and we can see Chevrolet SS's readily.

 

It's a wide world.  The world awaits, and if you

step off the beaten path, you'll find collecting

just as much fun and much more affordable!

 

 

Edited March 14, 2017 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

 I have said it before, and will probably say it many more times before I draw  my last one.  Our hobby/sport is one, if not the only one, where most look for a return on investment.  A couple of my brothers are avid fishermen. One has to have a bass boat, a truck to tow it, probably three dozen rod and reels.  He does not worry about return, only enjoying his HOBBY.  So should we.

 

  I had an ,82 Olds Cutlass 4 door. Absolutely loved that car. If I get in the buying mood again, I would not pass on one, Or the Buick equivalent. 

 

  Ben

[60FlatTop]

When I was 30 I bought a 15 year old Buick Riviera and took it to the old Victor Car Show. First they pointed me to the parking lot, a young kid in a new model car. "No, no. I want to go in the gate." They begrudgingly let me in.

Last summer I took my 22 year old black Impala SS to a show over by the Tonawanda Reservation. First they pointed me to the parking lot, old man in a Caprice. "Geez, don't you know what this is, kid?" He said "I'm sorry, Sir, right this way." He don't know how close I came to backing up and breaking his finger off.

Bernie

[Doug Novak]

The other thing to remember about 25 year old cars, although some what newer design and technology then what AACA is use to, they do compete with cars in the same class and era based on year of manufacture. They are not as challenging to restore, but if kept original, and new classes are developed, why not?  It might save the Club eventually when these newer cars are much older later on and the youngsters become Old Man.

Edited March 14, 2017 by Doug Novak (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

Financially, the newer cars are kind of interesting.

 

I paid $500 for this one and have just under $10,000 into it.

I paid $9,000 for this one and put a set of tires on for $1,000.

 

Shooda bought the tank.

Bernie

[John_S_in_Penna]

Nice cars, Bernie!

[Marty Roth]

I read, and then re-read Tom Cox's article a few hours later. It is very insightful, and a strong reminder that we are the hobby, and that we are responsible for the future of our hobby - for the continuation, growth, and success - or the lack of same.

 

Was it the Pogo comic strip which commented 
"We have met the Enemy, and they are US"?

 

In striving to be inclusive, we will gain not only numbers, but more importantly we will gain insight and an appreciation for alternate points of view.

 

Our '88 BMW 528e may not be all that collectible yet, but eventually our ''94 and '95 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham and '95 Mercury Grand Marquis may become "Tour-Drivers", or even HPOF/DPC examples with a personal history.

[tomcarnut]

Finally got my AACA magazine last night a week later than the rest of you. I agree very much with Tom on the issues of getting new members. I grew up in the hobby with brass and prewar cars but liked stuff my class mates like too being cars of 60's and 70's we could afford. In 1980, I bought my first car a 66 Chevy Impala convt with 25000 miles, original paint, top, interior and spare tire in trunk for a third of the price of a new car in 1980.  I was able to park it away and drive only on weekends and some tours with the local Canton Chapter AACA. Did not get any grief as they knew I purchased it from an older member of the club. That member had brass cars in his younger day including 1911 White he drove to Reno from Ohio and back in 1958. I just read about this trip in an Horseless Carriage Gazette from that year. Bill Harrah(Jay Leno of that period) was of course very involved with Reno Tour. In the same magazine is several pictures of Classic(CCCA defined cars) at meetings, shows and the for sale section along with more common cars like Fords from the 1930's. Hey, they were just 20-30 year old "used cars" in 1958. Later in the late 1980's I joined the Southern Chapter AACA and did a few events where I would hear the "used car" term at show or tours when I bought a 1970 Corvette and drove it or the Impala. It pissed me off then and still does. The same old farts that said those things while in their 30's cars now drive the 60 or 70's cars. While I have four brass cars now ranging from 1909 - 1912 one of which I plan to bring to Auburn, a 36 Ford and 48 Caddy, I also have a 1996 Buick Roadmaster my Dad bought new and is low mileage. I took it on a local tour last summer( wife liked the AC) and plan to show it in four years maybe for regular judging or HPOF. As it has the tow package, I use it to tow the brass cars along with my HPOF original 1984 Ford Tioga motorhome. (Got some grief from the guy next to me in HPOF 20's Buick roadster with my old (Cusin Eddie Motorhome) at Auburn a few years ago) At the same meet, I met a young man from our area with 1989 Caddy Deville all original that he got his first Junior. He was very excited and took it out west to get a Senior and later joined us on some local tours. The point is we need to encourage any way we can the youth interest in cars. I always let kids sit in my brass cars and let them blow the bulb horn and take as many that want for rides. We have neighbor kid now in college that inherited a 1970 Torino from his grandfather. I am always on him and other neighbors with old cars to join us on tours with some success. I also have recruited a few members in our area from this forum. One in fact who joined came to many of our tours last year and is coming this Sunday for lunch meeting. I am very upbeat on the hobby and recruit members for other Ohio Region Chapters all the time all over Ohio from my business contacts that take me all over the state. The point is we need to look at multiple avenues of recruitment. In my opinion, tours are a way to get the whole family involved more so that shows. Those family members not so interested in cars can see some neat places in their area and have some ice cream. By the way, I hope to get that first car,  the 66 Impala that is as nice now as in 1980 but with additional 25000 tour driven miles to the Huntington WVA meet for an HPOF certification. We will see if this "used car" is good enough.

 

Tom Muth

Cincinnati, Ohio

[Frank DuVal]

I guess I will continue to restore Dad's last new car he purchased. 1979 Chevette Scooter.

 

I kept it because I never saw any others running around. Then, at our local AACA show a few years ago (coming again this year on June 3), a 78 Scooter shows up from Pennsylvania! Oh well, competition....

[60FlatTop]

My official entry date was September 1959. I liked the 1930's big cars right from the start. The problem then was that 25 and 30 year old cars were shot and mostly in junk yards. Even 10 year old cars were an oddity. We would see a few old ones in some old farmer's garage or at a widow's house, but they weren't common. Today there are some pretty good pickings in the 30 year range and cheap.

 

And I'll bet some of you really old members still have some stuff you picked up for under $100, probably more like $30-40, as I remember. I was 14 years old and bought a '37 Terraplane coupe that the owner had used a pencil to write "For Sale $25 or $30". It was pointing "in" so he wrote on the trunk. Being a particularly sharp kid, I paid $25. I get a kick out of the conversations at Chapter meetings. You hear the acquisition stories that always end with "and we agreed on a price." Don't shake the walls of the holy temple by ever telling how much you paid. Ask and they go mute. How would the younger ones know what we have been doing?

I don't mind putting up the prices of mine. Anyone knowing certainly isn't going to change my asking price if I sell one. I bought my '60 Electra for $850 back in '02. That was the entry fee.

 

Once I tracked down an urban legend '67 or '68 Cadillac in a widows barn. It was overpriced X2 and not really that nice. Once we got talking she loosened up and told me how her husband, a farmer, had taken advantage of the first owner, a doctor, and I guess she figured for the sake of the old man she should get me, too, so the profit could be made at both ends.

 

My point is, there are a lot of long time hobby cars out there that were not that old and very good deals, kept hushed for decades. And the hobby has always adapted to the needs of owners. Guys really into the hobby spot those good deals. The wannabe's spend in and fade out for the most part. Look at the boom in the 1980's and early '90's, when a lot of 50 year old's were taking early retirements and cashing out a portion of their savings for that dream car ("Please, Honey, I have worked so hard.") They bought a lot of liabilities and many are still in garages not capable of running to the corner for a gallon of milk. Those guys bought the wrong cars. A nice $3,000 15 year old car would have been consistent with the history of the hobby.

 

Younger people don't have the money or have different priorities. This weekend I am going to a party and a 35 year old Nephew will be there. He has a good job and a weak spot between the ears for early 1970's big Mercury's. Between the two of us we can pull the trigger on one in the $3,000 range. And I keep coaxing him, getting his head out of the auctions and the reality shows. No, Don, you don't need to spread $100 bills like a poker hand, look like the Sunday funnies with tattoos, and strut around being a jerk to have an old car. Come to an antique car meet, I'll show you a whole different stereotype. But the car will be the important part. And I'll help you keep it going.

Bernie

Edited March 22, 2017 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)