mrspeedyt Posted October 29, 2010 Share Posted October 29, 2010 what american cars were positive ground ... and what years?:confused: my '41 de soto and '40 la salle is positive ground. the '23 buick is negative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest De Soto Frank Posted October 29, 2010 Share Posted October 29, 2010 Prior to the 12-volt changeover in '53-'56, the majority of American vehicles were Positive-Ground.Major exceptions were:Buick, Chevy, Olds, Pontiac.MoPar, Ford/Merc/Lincoln, Caddy & La Salle, GMC, Packard, Nash, Hudson, Pierce, Studebaker were all positive-ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W_Higgins Posted October 29, 2010 Share Posted October 29, 2010 Model T's were negative, but Model A's where positive, in one of those rare instances where Ford actually changed their standard for something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jim_Edwards Posted October 29, 2010 Share Posted October 29, 2010 Model T's were negative, but Model A's where positive, in one of those rare instances where Ford actually changed their standard for something.And all Fords through 1948 remained on the positive ground concept. The story is that Henry thought that electron flow not current flow should be the standard. I suspect his friendship with Thomas Edison may have had a lot to do with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Skyking Posted October 29, 2010 Share Posted October 29, 2010 Metropolitans were pos. ground, although, most of us changed them to neg..... 2 of mine are still positive ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrspeedyt Posted October 30, 2010 Author Share Posted October 30, 2010 any advantage to positive ground? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Silverghost Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 (edited) Brittish cars were + positive ground for decades into the 1960s. On a + positive ground car does the spark not jump in the opposite direction on the ignition point set and also the spark plugs ? Why was the change eventully made to - Negative ground ? Edited October 30, 2010 by Silverghost (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest billybird Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 At least the Model T ended on a "positive" note. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Skyking Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 I heard that there was less corrosion on + positive ground cars. I never noticed the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dei Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 My (Dad's) 51 Nash Canadian Statesman is positive ground. My original 52 Ford flathead pickup is positive ground also.As to rust, the Nash has almost 100,000 miles on it and with only ever having seen one winter of driving in it's life it still wears it's original factory paint so it does not have anywhere rust you would expect on a car with that kind of mileage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrspeedyt Posted October 30, 2010 Author Share Posted October 30, 2010 any cars world wide that were 12v positive ground? (i know the brits were for the most part)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD in KC Posted October 30, 2010 Share Posted October 30, 2010 Yes, 1955 Packard and Clippers were 12V Positive Ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrspeedyt Posted November 7, 2010 Author Share Posted November 7, 2010 (edited) found a good thread on the cadillac/ la salle club message forum 'reason for neg vs pos ground?' they got into the subject a little (actually... a lot...) deeper. Edited November 8, 2010 by mrspeedyt (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W_Higgins Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 How about a link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrspeedyt Posted November 8, 2010 Author Share Posted November 8, 2010 I haven't yet mastered the art of posting a link. sorry... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrspeedyt Posted November 8, 2010 Author Share Posted November 8, 2010 http://www.cadillaclasalleclub.org/forum/index.php/topic,109562.0.html hope this works... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W_Higgins Posted November 8, 2010 Share Posted November 8, 2010 That works -- you done good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Skyking Posted November 8, 2010 Share Posted November 8, 2010 They stated what I had said, less corrosion......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W_Higgins Posted November 8, 2010 Share Posted November 8, 2010 Three pages and no definitive answer. Here another link that offers lots of theories and no answer:Model T Ford Forum: Why the Switch to Positive Ground on Modren Fords?I'd lean toward it being a battle of theories with no merit and it ending in standardization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrspeedyt Posted November 8, 2010 Author Share Posted November 8, 2010 standardization DOES simplify things.... (at least a little... ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted November 8, 2010 Share Posted November 8, 2010 Somewhere around I have a Dykes Auto book from the mid 20's, In it is a list of negative and positive ground Vehicles dating back to the begining of batterys, charging systems, and starters. The list is quite long. Over all, with the number of cars listed the N&P Ground was about equal. Dandy Dave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest De Soto Frank Posted November 8, 2010 Share Posted November 8, 2010 I heard that there was less corrosion on + positive ground cars. I never noticed the difference.I never noticed a MoPar that rusted less than a Chevy of the same vintage / climate... have seen /owned very crusty examples of both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Skyking Posted November 8, 2010 Share Posted November 8, 2010 I never noticed a MoPar that rusted less than a Chevy of the same vintage / climate... have seen /owned very crusty examples of both. Frank, I'm referring to corrosion in the electrical system. Battery post, contacts, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest De Soto Frank Posted November 8, 2010 Share Posted November 8, 2010 Frank, I'm referring to corrosion in the electrical system. Battery post, contacts, etc.I've encountered more than a few folks who expressed the theory that positive ground lessened chassis / body corrosion... :confused:I'm trying to think if the battery terminals corrode less on my positive-ground cars or not... I run conventional lead-acid batteries in all my vehicles, 6 or 12 volt, positive or negative ground...I don't think I recall seeing fluffy-white corrosion on the terminals of my positive-ground MoPars, but do see it frequently on my 12-volt negative-ground modern stuff, and seem to remember fluffy-white on my 6-volt negative ground Chevies...One thing I have noticed on all my lead-acid batteries, regardless of polarity, is that the positive post & clamp tend to develop a hard, black coating, while the negative post and clamp just turn a dull-grey that brightens quickly with a few twists of the terminal brush. :cool:Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidAU Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 I have read an article in one of my Rolls Royce Club magazines regarding extensive testing that Rolls Royce carried out in the early years (1915 - 18 I think) as they were observing problems with corrosion in the cooling system when cars were returned to the factory for service. Rolls royce was a bit different to all other manufacturers in that most cars were returned to the factory for service or if that was not possible a company employee would go out to the car where ever it was in the world (the owner paid of course) so they had records of most cars and the problems they were having particularly as they started to age. Henry Royce was a brilliant electrical engineer before he started Rolls Royce Motors and he had designed the electrical system with positive earth as this was the most efficent way for the electrical current to flow however their testing proved that this was what was causing the corrosion in the radiators, blocks, heads etc. and all the cars were changed to negative earth from that time on.If I can find the article I will post it.David1923 Metallurgique Torpedo1931 Rolls Royce Phantom 11 Continental1940 Ford Deluxe Coupe1947 Mercury Coupe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAVE A Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 ALL Crosleys from 1939- 1952 were 6 Volt positive ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadkillontheweb Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 any cars world wide that were 12v positive ground? (i know the brits were for the most part)...My 1956 Australian built Desoto Diplomat UTE is 12V Positive ground. It has Lucas electricals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sambarn Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 The sticker on my '75 Midget says "This vehicle grounded in negative Earth" - I thought this was a metaphor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 I have noticed working on my share of British built stuff that they refer to the frame as Earth. Wiring a lucas system regulator "E" is for "Earth" or "Ground" as it would be marked with a "G" here. And "D" is for dynamo where we would use "G" for generator. Dandy Dave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest De Soto Frank Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 My 1956 Australian built Desoto Diplomat UTE is 12V Positive ground. It has Lucas electricals.Hmmm, do you have lights after dark and does it run in the rain ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted November 10, 2010 Share Posted November 10, 2010 The real question is ...Is it raining in the next county? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadkillontheweb Posted November 11, 2010 Share Posted November 11, 2010 Hmmm, do you have lights after dark and does it run in the rain ?The thing was made for the Australian outback and has no options, No heater, clock, radio or any other accessories. The only electrical devices there are should be able to survive with very little effort? Headlights and taillights (don't drive much at night). wiper ( don't drive in the rain) brake lights about the only electrical load the system sees. My turn signals are worthless, people just think I am waving at them since they are coming out of the right side window of the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted November 12, 2010 Share Posted November 12, 2010 Roadkill it may be possible to add turn signals without making any changes to the car whatsoever. I recently saw an ad for a temporary tail light and turn signal set for towing cars. The lights stuck on by magnets and operated by radio. It should be possible to rig up a switch and use them on the road then stash them in the trunk at shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadkillontheweb Posted November 12, 2010 Share Posted November 12, 2010 Roadkill it may be possible to add turn signals without making any changes to the car whatsoever. I recently saw an ad for a temporary tail light and turn signal set for towing cars. The lights stuck on by magnets and operated by radio. It should be possible to rig up a switch and use them on the road then stash them in the trunk at shows. Turn signals will be added during the restoration for safety I have the entire NOS setup, it just needs to be installed with the stem to the right of the column since the shifter is on the left. While the Kangaroos of the outback did not care what direction you were going drivers in Iowa need to be informed. Also there is no trunk.Here is the vehicle in question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Skyking Posted November 12, 2010 Share Posted November 12, 2010 Roadkill, I know a lot of hot rodders that would love to have that grille!!Your car is very unique......looks like a '54 Plymouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest De Soto Frank Posted November 12, 2010 Share Posted November 12, 2010 Slowly put the De Soto grille down, and back away, Skyking ! I know the rodders love 'em, but IMHO, those grilles look best right where Chrysler Corp put them in the first place....I'll let Roadkill explain the uncanny likeness to the MoPar sibling... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadkillontheweb Posted November 12, 2010 Share Posted November 12, 2010 Roadkill, I know a lot of hot rodders that would love to have that grille!!Your car is very unique......looks like a '54 Plymouth.Whenever I bring the car out I have to post armed guards around the grille. It is an export only grille so it is extremely rare.You are correct, the base for this vehicle is a 1954 Plymouth. After production of the 54 ended here the body dies made a trip to OZ and were used for a few more years for the local market. The UTE body style of this model was not offered till 1956 so this really confuses the issue. The cabin was used into the early 60s with different fenders and quarters.I actually purchased two of them and had them shipped over here.I sold the Plymouth and kept the Desoto. They run 16" wheels for ground clearance and have a full convertible X member frame for rigidity during off road use as would be expected by the farmers and ranchers that purchased them new. Since they are based off a 54 Plymouth 4-door sedan parts are easy to find except for the export specific items. The rear door panels are leaded in by the factory and the rear roof section is 1946-48 Plymouth sedan. The tailgate and rear section are custom made by the factory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Skyking Posted November 12, 2010 Share Posted November 12, 2010 You are correct, the base for this vehicle is a 1954 Plymouth. After production of the 54 ended here the body dies made a trip to OZ and were used for a few more years for the local market. The UTE body style of this model was not offered till 1956 so this really confuses the issue. The cabin was used into the early 60s with different fenders and quarters.I have never seen one before..........Now we know how the ElCamino & Ranchero originated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest De Soto Frank Posted November 12, 2010 Share Posted November 12, 2010 I think production Utes go back to the mid-1930's, don't they ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadkillontheweb Posted November 12, 2010 Share Posted November 12, 2010 I think production Utes go back to the mid-1930's, don't they ?The UTE (short for Utility coupe) goes back to 1934 as the story goes when a lady wrote Ford Australia to ask why they could not make a vehicle to take to church on Sunday and the Hogs to market on Monday. Car up front, truck out back.There were car and truck based versions and if you count the roadster versions you can push the date back some more. Pretty much any make that sold cars in Australia offered a UTE of some kind. They also offered a Dodge trim version to go with the Desoto and Plymouth in 1956. Here are a few more samples. Why Ford and Chevy waited so long to introduce the body style here and Chrysler even took longer is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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