my 1938 special: the chronicle

[JohnD1956]

Paul, your Uncle did a marvelous job. That looks fantastic.

As for the engine pipe, Maybe the shop can make up the first pipe from their specs, and then you can put that on for getting to the shop?

How are the brakes coming along?

[Guest ZondaC12]

actually my uncle is making me a pipe about 4"-6" long with a flange on it for me also. he says he'll have it done in a couple days. i bought some flexible exhaust tubing and a 90 degree elbow piece, which should get the exhaust under the car anyway and prevent that metal pan thing on the left of the engine bay area below the manifold from heating up and something catching on fire or something.

unfortunately i havent done anything with the brakes yet, i got the ramps from him this weekend but on wednesday im bringing my daily driver (used to be my dad's) 1987 mercury cougar 20th anniv edition over to his house and a friend of his is going to look at it and wants the ramps to get under it if necessary while seeing if he can figure out a) where the slow oil leak is (i think is the valve cover gaskets and so does my cousin who took a glance at it, theres some oil and dirt accumluated on both covers near the gasket) and why after sitting for a few hours after a rainstorm it wont start. i have to crank it for about minute (yes i only crank it like 10 secs at a time then wait a little) until it starts popping over then another few seconds itll start.

i thought it would be tuesday and my mom suggested to not bother (so this was part of it, i like to try if i can to avoid arguments, and i thought that was one waiting to happen. we disagree on a lot of things) and he called today to say it would be weds so i shouldve put it up on the ramps, actually i shouldve regardless, i think i will tomorrow and see what i can get done, theres no reason i cant get it off the ramps in time for the next day.

[Glassesguy]

Nice job on that flange!!

[JohnD1956]

Is that the 3.8 motor in the ford? I would think valve cover gaskets too. One of my boys had an older version of that car once. One of the soft plugs rusted through. We pulled it out and put in an expandable rubber one. Lasted a good long time too. Doe the engine still have the round distributor cap in there? If so, try a new cap to get rid of that wet starting problem.

JD

[Guest ZondaC12]

oh man!!! hehe wow im getting help on the cougar too!? who wouldve thought? actually its the 5.0 v8. yeah . pretty bad on gas mileage but the thing gets going pretty quick! it does have a round distributor cap though.

and i didnt actually get the buick up on the ramps today . i ended up being busy with other things. but the ramps are only needed for the cougar tomorrow, so after its been looked at, i can bring em right back home and get to work! well at least whatever i can get done on my own with the brakes.

[JohnD1956]

I think you'll find most of us have had other cars too. I always figure it's better to beat a Ford in winter than to stress my Buicks... :-))

[Guest ZondaC12]

HEY!!! ford-hater!!! no thats ok even if you dont like ford, however i MUST assert myself as a ford fan whenever confronted by a terribly trying and tense situation such as this

[Guest ZondaC12]

yesterday was another VERY HIGH point in this project for me. i "unfroze" the "frozen" master cylinder. i (and others) figured because the brake pedal wouldnt depress, the m/c was frozen/rusted etc. well after days of spraying B'laster PB on the nut that holds the brake line to the m/c, i finally gave it a strong tug with the wrench yesterday and it MOVED. i couldnt have been happier. so i undid it completely, and although the tough (steel?) brake line stayed in its place, the threads were all out so there was a tiny gap and some fluid started to drip out, so i had to run and get a drip-pan. i then decided to try the pedal and it moved as easily and smoothly as the clutch and accelerator pedals do. i couldnt believe it and i still cant! although the fluid that came out was very brown, similar to rust, so maybe stuff did rust? im assuming all that came out was what was in the cyl and reservoir, especially because every time i pressed the pedal i heard liquid falling into the pan. i did push it slowly though so the stuff wouldnt spray all over the frame.

so whats the deal here? is a line frozen or something? could it be anything to do with that switch mechanism that turns the stop lights on, where the one line branches off into three? could fluid in a line be frozen or something like that? or is it more likely that a wheel cylinder(s) is/are frozen? the only wheel ive pulled off is the front left one, and i pulled the drum and i could move the pads myself, though it was hard because of the springs, but i could move them and the arm that connects the pad to the cylinder moved, both of them, so would that mean that cylinder is okay? ill have to check the others now, and ill look at that one again if theres any other things i should be looking for?

i just now need some in-depth tips on the brake system, now that that's my focus. but the big thing is that the master cyl is ok (i think anyway, tell me if it still might not be!)

[JohnD1956]

The brakes... The most important part of any car , in my book.

Now that you have removed the line from the master cylinder, you have introduced air into the system. This air will give you a spongy feel to the brakes unless removed. Removal is a two person job usually, but before even thinking about that, you will need to see if you can open the bleeder valves at each of the wheel cylinders. Do you know what these look like and where they are? Be careful with these. You don't want to snap them off. Sometimes it can't be avoided but if it happens it may mean you'll have to replace the wheel cylinders.

In addition, I would recommend you ask your Uncle to look over the flex lines in the system with you. There will be one at each front wheel and one going from the brake line under the car to the brake line on the drive shaft torque tube.

If there is any , and I mean ANY deterioration in these flex lines, you need to replace them. While taking care of this, I would fill the master cylinder with fresh fluid and then pump it all out, maybe two times or so, to flush it. PS, ALWAYS use clean brake fluid fom the bottle. What you dump out of the MC cannot be reclaimed and used again. Just clean fresh fluid.

Once that is done, hook up that brake line again. Go easy threading it back into the port on the MC. If you haven't bent it, it may just go right back in. A good rule of thumb is if you can turn it two or three full turns with just your fingers, then it is aligned properly. If you can only get 1/4 to 1/2 turn, back it right out. It is crooked, and if you force it in it WILL leak, causing a replacement of the line and fitting. ( PS, I always put the fitting up to the port and then slowly turn it backwards as if removing it. Keep a slight pressure on it to hold it tight to the port on the MC. While turning it backwards, you should feel it click and drop into place in the port. This is the point where the two sets of thread start. Also this will help you to "feel" the alignment of the line fitting with the port threads. Just turn it backwards while pushing it in. You'll see what I mean the first time you do this.

Once you get the wheel cylinder bleeder valves open, and deal with the flex lines, it is time to bleed the brakes. Let us know if you need to learn this technique.

Get another can of PB Blaster. You may need it.

[Pete O]

If the brake pedal wouldn't move while the master cylinder hydraulic line was connected, but it moved after the line was disconnected, this indicates that perhaps the wheel cylinders are frozen from rust, or perhaps the the brake shoes themselves are rusted in place. The best thing you could do is to completely restore the brake system. Rebuild the master and wheel cylinders, replace the shoes and hardware, replace the flex hoses and even have new steel brake lines made. The brakes are something that you don't want to fool around with.

[Gene Brink]

Paul,

Liquid is not compressible so for your brake pedal to move the fluid has to move somewhere. Good guess that the master cylinder was rusted up solid but as you have discovered it does move with the line open. The only other place where movement is required for the brakes to work is at each wheel cylinder. If any of them moved the brake fluid from the master cylinder would have been displaced when you pushed the pedal down so I vote for the cylinders being rusted solid. Don't assume you need new ones - once disasembled they can be cleaned up pretty well (even when they look real ugly) and rebuilt kits are easy to come by.

Enjoying reading of your exploits and it is good to see that you are not getting discouraged. You will be driving your '38 soon... Happy stopping!

[Guest ZondaC12]

over the last week ive been wrestling with this little bugger, its a 1.5 inch or so dia. cap with this sqaure thing (for lack of better term) as the thing you would unscrew with a wrench. i tried 3 auto parts stores and i guess its very hard to find sockets for a square. JohnD1956 told me via email that they are made for some cars that had sqaure bolt heads on the cylinder head interestingly enough, but i still couldnt find them. this problem existed because from underneath i could fit a normal sized open end wrench on the square but the result was no leverage. because of the gasket i found after removing the cap it made sense why the several sprays of PB blaster did nothing to free up the threads. i ended up taking a 7/8" 12 point socket from a set of mine and because it almost fit onto the square, just wouldnt go all the way down i regretfully decided to hammer it on. it stayed on tight, and using the socket wrench i found that it still could come off when i pulled on it. so then it occured to me to use my impact wrench and after 15 real short bursts it started moving and then came right off. again with this thing what i needed was just a lot of brute force. the square was not damaged at all, maybe the rust scraped off a little but thats it.

so then i proceeded to put some new brake fluid in the cylinder and flush it out. i went through a 32 oz bottle of valvoline dot-3 or dot-5 whatever it is (did i ruin the cyl by using this stuff? it seems pretty standard stuff, is there still some special stuff i gotta use?) and it was still coming out brown. the inside of the cyl reservoir is very brown, eaten away. not that its very far through, im sure 90% at least of the very thick wall of the reservoir is intact, it just looks terrible, with varied sized thin chunks of rust sitting at the bottom. i opened another bottle and put some more in and sat there for 10 minutes pumping the pedal trying to get it to pump the fluid out and it wouldnt pump. i could hear some very faint, short hissing/air movement/sucking/whatever noises as i pushed it and let off but nothing moved. over the spot where i think is the intake hole, the large one towards the front of the reservoir (front side as in the front of the car) there was movement on the surface of the liquid and little air bubbles moving around like fluid or air was being pushed up, but thats it. im really worried. i think it ingested a piece of rust or whatever junk is in there? do i just need to take the cyl off and pull it apart and clean it out? is this a simple process?

im sorry i did this if this was a stupid mistake, it just made sense to me, and i couldnt get the chunks out with tweezers, they just crumbled. they didnt seem eager to move so i thought the fluid which seems kind of thick wouldnt move them.

[Matt Harwood]

I'd really recommend replacing the master cylinder. The gunk in the reservoir is probably just as bad inside the piston and brake lines and wheel cylinders. If the sleeves in which the pistons move are corroded, the pistons may be frozen or fluid will leak past them. For what it costs to buy all new/rebuilt stuff (from a place like Bob's or Kanter), you'll save yourself A LOT of headaches. If the car has been sitting for as long as you say, I'm fairly certain the internals of all brake components are toast. Yes, you could try to rebuild everything, clean it up, hone the cylinders, sand everything smooth, replace the seals but what will you really save? Get new stuff with a warrantee, install it in an afternoon and start enjoying the car. You'll spend a month just cleaning and rebuilding all those parts that may or may not work when you run pressure through them.

Brakes are the one area you don't want to cut corners. The OEM brakes are marginal even in perfect condition--anything that diminishes their abilities is a major hazard, both to you and to other motorists. Invest the $300-400 it will take to have an all-new brake system and be confident that you've made the car safe to operate. If you maintain the brakes regularly, you probably won't have another major rebuild for a long, long time.

[Guest ZondaC12]

ok, i'll do that. i completely agree, that it is expensive esp. for someone like me but a fresh start is worth it. and it will last a long time if i maintain it well (which i certainly will). i have a cousin who is in college right now for autobody/auto mechanics and said he would help we with what he can on this car and he said that bending new lines isn't that hard, so i wont be getting the pre-bent lines from kanter, as appealing as those look. they are almost $200, i dont know much about the cost of brake lines but that just seems a bit much to me. again i dunno how much simple, straight brake line is either. but it has to be somewhat less at the least so i'll save some $$ no matter what.

oh and johnd1956 had mentioned to check the brake hoses for ANY amount of deterioration, ive only had the driver side front wheel off, and that hose looked perfect, honestly. the rubber was a bit stiff, but no cracks or anything. so ill have to see what the others look like.

[JohnD1956]

Speaking of bending new brake lines, I have done that on a few cars and it really is not a problem. The lines thinner than 3/8" are easily bent with your fingers. But NAPA has two simple line benders for around $10.00 each which will make for professional looking bends.

Even though I have done a few of these, I ruined a 3/8 " line this weekend by making an incorrect bend and then trying to straighten it out for a new bend. The result was a kinked line. I'll be doing that one over again.

Here's a question for everyone. My brother claims hot rodders will fill these lines with fine sand before trying to start a bend. Claims it prevents all kinks on those tight 90 degree turns. Just have to take time to clean it out later.

What does everyone think of this idea?

Paul, Follow what Matt said. Go for replacement stuff. The time spent will more than make up the difference in the time spent rebuilding the other parts.

However, that being said, just for your own experience, you should know that some master cylinders will bleed fluid if they are disconnected from their lines. Other won't bleed unless pumped. Sometimes the pumping action with an open line will cause the cylinder to lose it's prime. That being the fluid in the pump chamber is ejected when the pedal is pushed down but there is no check valve to prevent the pump chamber from sucking air when the pedal is let back up. If you can get a friend to help you, have them operate the brake pedal while you can reach the MC. Tell them to push the pedal to the floor and hold it.

Then put your finger over the hole where you removed the brake line and then tell him to let the pedal up. This will cause the fluid to be sucked into the chamber from the M/C's reservoir. Once the pedal is up have him push it to the floor again and it should pump out fluid, unless the internals are completely ruined. This is the same basic principal involved with bleeding the brakes once you replace all the stuff. And wear goggles! You do not want to get brake fluid spraying around and getting into your eyes. Easy pushes on the pedal will be sufficient.

[Guest ZondaC12]

yes i did notice right when i disconnected the line that fluid dripped for like 5 minutes before it occured to me to try to depress the pedal just for the hell of it (i guess its a good thing i do that a lot, i discover a lot of things arent broken/wrong that i thought were broken because i always "just try it one more time") i will try what you suggested just for fun. because ill be replacing the lines, i guess ill grab the line connecting to the m/c with vise-grips and just yanking it back so it's not pressing up against the m/c (it is right now)

[JohnD1956]

I wouldn't destroy any lines till you have the new ones and have already copied the pattern from the existing one. Instead of bending the line back, just remove it with as little distortion as possible. That way you'll be able to copy the old lines in making new ones that go into the same spot.

[JohnD1956]

I wouldn't destroy any lines till you have the new ones and have already copied the pattern from the existing one. Instead of bending the line back, just remove it with as little distortion as possible. That way you'll be able to copy the old lines in making new ones that go into the same spot.

[Guest ZondaC12]

well i guess i could try disconnecting its other end from the stop light switch/splitter (i think thats what that thing is!) and removing it. i didnt mean i would try to break it right off, i just meant that now it wouldnt matter if it bent a little in the process. but from what you're saying apparently it does anyway so i wont do that

[JohnD1956]

Keep in mind that restoration means putting everything back the same way it was from the factory, so when you bend up new lines you'll want to be as close to original bends and routing as possible. Plus those lines were bent that way by the original engineers. Some bends don't look like they make any sense, until you try to put a line back in and suddenly find it is hitting the clutch pedal or exhaust pipe etc.

One more thing.

If you're really going for original period correct you'll find that the premade lines are all either too short or too long. If you buy the longer ones, there is another tool which makes the flare for the end of the lines. This will allow you to make your initial bends and then cut the line to make a perfect length new line.

The tool is naturally called a flaring tool, this is about $40.00, but absolutely needed. I don't know if NAPA would rent theirs but I have one you can borrow.

Also you'll need to know if the car has the double flared ends, or single flared ends. The same tool makes both, and later cars use double flares. The premade lines will all be double flares too.

Hey, someone more knowledgeable than me, did the 38 have double flared fittings, or should they be single flare?

[imported_paldo38]

If you haven't done so already, lose not a minute: join the 1937-1938 Buick Club. Their magazine "Torque Tube" has reams of solid information about your car that you won't find anywhere else. The link to their website is: http://clubs.hemmings.com/frameset.cfm?club=1937-1938buick. Good luck.

[Guest ZondaC12]

well i got the master cylinder off yesterday and the new parts came in the mail last night! they look great i must say, nothing like fresh new parts. the end of the line that goes to the m/c has one flare. does this mean all of the ends are like this? the system is single-flared all around? today or tomorrow ill see if i can get the wheel cylinders off, and ill start disconnecting the brake lines.

[JohnD1956]

I don't think you'd be able to easily see a single flare vs a double flare. This is because the way a double flare is made the 1st flare folds over onto the 2nd flare. They become one flare just double strength. I would think the car has double flares. Did you try posting the question to that other web site mentioned? Maybe they can assist on this fact.

JD

[Guest ZondaC12]

what is the other website youre talking about? that 37-38 buick club? it doesnt look like it has a forum or anything? well if worse comes to worse im sure i can find someone somewhere to tell me. I still need to take off the original lines and the wheel cylinders. im lagging a little because even with this respirator-mask thing (looks like a gas mask, has those two pods on either side) which i found in my basement with my dad's painting stuff, and a pair of safety glasses it's still not much fun going under that car. i touch a frame rail and several bits of rust fall down all over me. but i will get to it very soon, this week for sure ill put a dent in it.

[JohnD1956]

Yes, that's the one I meant. I'm sure these are double flared. We just spent the last two weekends bending up all new fuel lines for Doug's T type. Your car will be a piece of cake compared to that one. Dougs car has 5 lines running side by side the length of the car. Separate brake lines for each rear side, a 3/8's fuel supply, a 5/16th return line and a 1/4 vent line, all running within 1/8th inch of the other, and fitting into 6 plastic brackets that keep the set up underneath.

I sure wish we could have done better than we did but we got them all back in in their brackets. What a pain.

[Guest ZondaC12]

ok. if you want ill take a picture of the one that was on the m/c. i think i know what you mean by how you explained the double flare design and looking at it i dont think so but maybe its not noticeable and i certainly am not knowledgeable in this field.. i do trust you but ill take a picture tonight and put it here just in case it might have been changed at some point.

i mention this because the shop manual (and owners manual) say the starter has an oil cup and it should be oiled. i saw the one on the generator and there is no such thing on the starter motor's visible end. im not sure what the stock one looked like but the coloration and texture seems different than the rest of the starter and it doesnt look rusty like the rest of the starter, just dusty and worn-looking. perhaps its a permanent-lubed aftermarket endbell or something? i have no idea what other stuff my dad (or maybe even the first owner?) might have modified.

[JohnD1956]

I think a lot of those oil cups were rendered incapacitated over the years as parts were rebuilt with newer sealed bearings. Look for on eon the distributor too. Chances are that one still needs oil occasionally.

Looking forward to the pictures.

JD

[Guest ZondaC12]

okay i took a bunch of pictures, just held it under the car sitting next to it and snapped a bunch of pics and attached is what i think is the best one (they all came out a bit blurry--explanation below)

i decided to run it this evening so i took it off the jackstands and ramps so it was sitting much lower obviously and i only thought to take the pics after i brought it back in the garage. thats the deal with the pics. the fact that i ran it is also important because something strange happened that scared me. i probably ran it for 15 minutes, occasionally revving it a little and for a minute or two at a time occasionally using the hand control to hold a high idle. not very high, just it you pushed the accelerator down about 1/3 of the way. i wanted to get it as warmed up as i could in that time. it never got up to 180 degrees, but it got a little above the line in between 100 and 180 so maybe thats ok?

i dont know how much gas i had in the car but i hadnt added any since the day i first started it, when i dumped all of our 5 gal container in the shed used for the mower. so it mustve been only like 1 gal or something left, so i did that again today and ill do it again tomorrow, i want to fill it almost all the way, maybe lubricate the sending unit some, it seems to read about 1/2 tank all the time, fluctuating a little sometimes.

at idle the oil pressure was at the mark between 0 and 30 is this ok? i seem to recall it being at just under 30, maybe it wasnt, i just want to know if thats ok. because it was that i noticed this time and the strange thing was when i pulled it back into the garage, it was 3/4 the way in and the engine changed sound. if you recall from the video it was blub-blub-blub-blub-blub, it changed to blub-mmmmmmmmm-blub-mmm-blub-blub-mmmmmmmm and repeating about that same pattern. i tried not to panic and slowly let out the clutch a little and pulled in slowly like usual, but i shut it right down. before i did this though i revved it a little and it sounded more like a well-tuned v8 muscle car accelerating hard, like it smoothed out or something. but im afraid this is a bad thing, so could somebody tell me whats going on?

i also tried restarting it and it wouldnt start. it took a little carb cleaner (actually a lot because it was evaporating as i sprayed it into the intake) but once the parts in there were nice and wet with it, it started very quickly, and sounded the same. now it actually was reluctant the first time i started it this evening, but i think thats the choke being a little glitchy, and maybe some bad gas still in the line. a little carb cleaner and manualy closing the choke all the way for a split second while cranking did the trick.

but other than that everything was like normal. it smoked the normal amount which i dont know if i mentioned here, but i talked to my bus driver (first day of school today) and he said he talked to a mechanic who is a friend of his and he said it is probably smoking like it is because of bad gas and a little blow by and my rings are probably ok its not burning excessive oil and they just used to smoke like that back then anyway. besides i smelled it a little (careful not to inhale any hehe) and it smelled like a rich-running engine or something, not like oil burning. so that was reassuring today.

i hope the replies will be reassuring too, i dont want anything to happen to my poor baby engine!!!

[JohnD1956]

I think that is a double flare. The end of the line looks thick like it is rolled over, so I'm 99% sure that is what you have there.

As to the running problem, correctr me if I'm wrong, but you have left the car all summer on 5 gallons of gas ( or less)? Is so you probably have had some condensation buildup inside the gas tank. Given the high humidity and heat we had this summer, the probability of condensation with less than a half tank of gas is high. Of course when you start sucking water, you'll have intermittent firing in the cylinders.

I would recommend a product by STP for gas conditioning. I think it's called Fuel treatment and is usually sold in the dry gas section of walmart. It comes in a red bottle and in small print claims to be jet fuel. The best part of this is it is not alcohol, but a petroleum distilate base which is basically higher than normal octane gas. It should help to disapate any water in your system within seconds of starting the engine. Of course you'd want to put more than a half tank of gas in right away to prevent this problem again.

As to burning oil, I'd recommend a compression test. Your manual should have some information on this. If you get good readings I'd once again recommend valve guide seals. BUT DO NOT JUMP into this project without some much better advice. The last thing you'd want to do now is have a valve drop into the cylinder, because that would mean a lot of work...

JD

[Guest ZondaC12]

ok double flare then.

two days ago i put another 5 gals in from that container, i think ill fill it again and put it in, then make another trip to fill it so my mom will have gas for the mower (" -sigh- you NEVER said you were going to use the WHOLE container! come on!!!!! how dare you!!!!??"). it wasnt THAT big of a deal, theres also a full 2.5 gal one in the shed, shes just a little particular about that kind of stuff. it might hav been down to like 1 or 2 gallons, hopefully in the next couple of runs it might start running on the fresh gas, ill see what happens. but ill get that STP stuff (does it work like drygas even though, as you said, its not alcohol?) and put it in whats there, see if that makes a difference too.

im not worried about or considering replacing internal parts or anything like that which would be causing oil-burning or something right now. it runs good, thats all i care about. an engine rebuild or something will come much later down the road. and the large amount of smoke it blows about looks blue but doesnt smell like oil (at least to my knowledge). it just reminds me of the smell at classic car shows, when some are running, and mind you im talking about ones that are pristine looking and have tip-top shape engines so it must just be no emissions controls and this is how it runs, and maybe its a little rich too.

[JohnD1956]

I have used that STP gas treatment and seen it make a difference in as little as a few minutes of running an engine. Yes, it will work as a dry gas additive. HOWEVER, there may be a different problem here.

I would still recommend a compression test. If you have stable compression, that can save you a lot of money when you DON"T have the engine re-built. As for that smoke, blue smoke is usually oil burning. Excess gas burning would be black smoke. In either case, plugs would foul out easily under these conditions. So I would recommend pulling the plugs, cleaning the tips with a wire brush, re-adjusting the gap and re-installing them. You may find that straightens the problem right away.

If you have the blue smoke, and stable compression, I would think the valve guide seals would correct this condition.

If you have black smoke, that is going to require some carb work, with which I have never had much success personally.

[Guest ZondaC12]

okay. ill go and get some of that stuff. until i do, i put some sta-bil in with the new 5gals of fuel and some more mravel mystery oil i put in yesterday. i used sta-bil because this is likely going to remain in the tank awhile, at least until i get it driveable. but it also says its ingredient is petroleum distillate, like that STP stuff, so maybe it will help too.

i have a compression gauge that was my dads. i have used it many times on my small engines, do i just take out all of the plugs and put it in the one i want to test and crank it? it seems simple but im just checking.

[JohnD1956]

Is this the first time you mentioned putting in Marvel Mystery oil, or did I miss that earlier? Perhaps this is the source of the smoke?

[Guest ZondaC12]

awwwww! i forgot to mention earlier that while talking to my bus driver on the first day of school, he said he talked to a friend of his who is a mechanic and told me it might be smoking and running the way it does because it needs to get out on the highway and get some hours of use before everything will "wear in" again. the guy said to add marvel mystery oil to help. and the bottle says 4 oz to every 10 gallons of fuel and it has a description on the back about how it helps lubricate engines, treat fuel etc. so i figured i'd do it. it also says on the bottle its been around since 1923 so its not like its some new chemical that could damage an old engine or something.

its smoked since the day i first started it. ill do that compression test today if i get to it. now im curious as to what it will be.

[Guest ZondaC12]

ok i did did the test this afternoon. ive attached an image of the testers i used. these were my dad's, i only recently found the one on the right in one of his toolboxes. the other one has a rubber piece on the end and youre supposed to push it hard into the threads and turn and it basically threads in. it was too cramped on the end cylinders to be able to turn it enough for it to not pop out (this happened, sort of startled me, it was a loud pop!) so i used the other one first. problem was that it wasnt like the other one in that the gauge spiked up to the compression level quickly and then sprang right back down to 0 after the compression cycle. but i could clearly see it reach the 50 mark on all of them, or + or - at most 2 lbs. so then i put the other one in one of the middle holes so i could really get it in there so it would hold, and that one read 92 lbs. the shop manual says 110-118 lbs, but thats with engine warmed up, etc. guess i shouldve read that BEFORE testing. whoops. is that why its 20 lbs less than the book says? it also says "The limits given above apply only in low altitude areas of the country. A uniformity between cylinders within a 6 lb limit indicates the valves and pistons are normal."

so am i good? the spark plugs were black-carboned-up-color and oily-wet and smelled that way, so theres some oil burning from somewhere. is it just the valves guides like you said?

[Bill Stoneberg]

Looking at your pictures, the one on the left is your normal compression checker. Pull all the plugs, hold it in tightly while someone cranks the car. After it pops 4 times, see what you have for compression.

You can get it in to the back cylinders, it just takes a bit.

The second one is a leakdown tester. It is used to see how bad the cylinders leaking and / or it holds compression.

I normally just make sure that the compression using the first guage is within 10 % of each other. so if that one says 92 lb/ft all the others should be from 83 - 101 lbs. The shop manual is from when it was new, you have some wear so it wont be what the manual says.

But you dont want it like my 47 was: most around 90 and then the back 2 cylenders were 60 and 0. It turned out the pistons were cooked from a lack of oil.

[Guest ZondaC12]

alright, ill do it again today just for accuracy. i can probably even get it into the one nearest the firewall. the rubber piece is stretchy so i can pull it away from the firewall as i turn it. what became of the 47? did you end up overboring it or something and getting new pistons?

[Guest ZondaC12]

ok sorry i forgot to post the results immediately. thought i already did it.

i couldnt screw it in enough to not pop out, even in the middle cylinders, so i just screwed it in a little in each one and held it in really hard, then took a really long screwdriver and pushed on the accelerator pedal rod to crank it. all cylinders read just over 90, and i believe each small mark means 2, so 92 lbs.

it was warmed up, i had shut it off then immediately started pulling out the plugs. it didnt change the readng so what does this mean?

[JohnD1956]

I think it means your engine is in good overall shape.

I understand it is more important to have consistency within the range suggested by Bill. So considering you have put the marvel mystery oil into the gas tank, I'd suggest we not worry about the blue smoke right now.

The carbon on the plugs may be caused by that oil too, or by a rich gas mixture. IT could also be because the car gets no road time. Ideling till warmed up is better than nothing but not the same as getting it out.

So back to the brakes so you can get her out there with the rest of us. We want to see her go...

JD

[Guest ZondaC12]

oh believe me, i havent stopped on the brakes at all, excpet for those couple of days last week when i ran it days in a row, so i didnt have it up on jackstands, now its back up, and in the last 3 days i have successfully removed the line going from the stoplight unit/splitter to the drivers side front wheel, the one from the m/c to the unit, and disconnected the one going from it to the passeneger side front wheel and the one going towards the rear.

however there is bad news. i simply was could not, as much as i tried, preserve the very ends of the m/c line (end that connects to the splitter) and of the line going to the driver side wheel (again, end that connected to the splitter). the connectors simply would not spin on the line, and they twisted the lines as i unscrewed them, even if i grabbed the line right near the connector with another vise-grip. because i wanted the ends to be able to still roughly estimate the length that i lost on those two ends, i ended up having to slice off the line above the connector, and use a chisel-like thing but it was a circle and was the same size as the outer dia. of the line so i could hammer it right through. i then saw why it was so stuck in there: bright, dry orange rust.

however the two that i just disconnected were just fine. and the ones that broke off, i did NOT allow that twisting action to bend ANY of the rest of it's respective line, both twisted off about 3/8" before the connector. so im pretty darn sure i should be able to get the right length still.

and believe me i didnt rush this or anything, i spent a week, partly because i ran it a lot those couple of days, spraying pb blster on the connectors. i guess it just wouldn't penetrate that far.

actually im finding the stuff isnt working that well on most of this stuff. i end up getting things off by gradually applying a lot of force/striking the vise-grip/wrench i have on them with a small heavy metal object and upon removal, the thing has dry orange rust all over the inside threads because the pb never got there. not saying i wont use it, i will, it just doesnt seem to be this "really great stuff" everyone says it is. but i am getting the stuff off, right?

i should definitely be able to have all of the brake system removed by the end of the month