my 1938 special: the chronicle

[Guest ZondaC12]

well first of all i dont think that title is toooooo original, but it gets the job done and it makes sense.

(oh and by the way: if an administrator thinks this belongs somewhere else ex. the new prewar forum or elsewhere, feel free to move it, just let me know first, thanks!)

onto the good stuff.

firstly, read here if you want/need the background info:

http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/showflat....;o=&fpart=1

(sorry i havent gotten around to making a thread here until now, i got the car home a little more than a week ago (may 27).)

5/27/05:

it was flatbedded home from the garage by a towing company near me my friend referred me to who would give me a nice discount and who are in general very nice people. as it was winched on to the truck, it rolled just fine. even though it makes sense, it was still a big relief to me. you never know. i kinda should have gotten pics, but i was too excited i forgot! following behind that thing was awesome. at every stop light i looked on from my mom's car as lots of people glanced at it or drove by slowly to stare at it. what an experience.

however i did get a bunch of pics that day as i cleaned it up a bit with my friend.

attached on this post is the first, and im making more posts for the rest.

[Guest ZondaC12]

front-side view

[Guest ZondaC12]

the interior. after pulling the seat covers off, and examining them more closely in more light, i found lots of tiny mouse/rat poo on them. the seats were COVERED in dark dust. nothing some hardcore vacuuming couldnt fix. theres a big hole there in the middle of the front seat, torn apart by rodents im sure. but for now im not worried, ill just get new covers. the seat is after all, still usable. also, the glove box was full of mouse poo too! really makes me want to kill some mice, you know? but it also had some presents! two older (sixties/seventies) looking small boxes labeled "sorensen" contained a breaker point thing and a condenser! both looking brand new! also, a small box with two extra spark plugs.

[Guest ZondaC12]

as you can see, the back seat is in MUCH better condition.

[Guest ZondaC12]

the trunk. also full of rodent stuff, and there was wood in front of the wood you can see, but it was so terribly warped and rippled and stuff i unscrewed the screws and took out the wood. lots of vacuuming done on the bottom too, as there was lots of loose rust chips. looks much better in this pic! also, in the bottom of the trunk right in front of the trunk door, where its like a trough, there is a little bit of rust-through on the right end. im hoping this isnt too hard to fill in.

[Guest ZondaC12]

here it now sits in a NICE garage, its new home.

[Guest ZondaC12]

5/30/05:

ive started to get into the internals. this is the valvetrain. i talked with JohnD1956 via email, and i ended up vacuuming it all out, to my surprise it came off very easily, especially using a brush attachment. at first it seemed like rust to me. i then put some PB blaster on everything. ive also drained the oil. it came out nice and black, only a couple small chunks came out, so i dont know what that means in terms of how much sludge in the pan. that valvetrain looks MUCH better now, i just didnt get a pic. i will later maybe. now ive just gotta go get some non-detergent oil. theres a NAPA near me i am told will have it.

[Guest ZondaC12]

6/5/05:

whew. finally up to present date. on friday i went to a NAPA (the one i was told would have the right oil) and got a 6v battery. forgot to get a pic of it in the car. lots of fun, got new cables too, and too my pleasant surprise, (and it really makes sense after really looking over the condition of the wiring) 95% of the electrical stuff works! the domelight on the headliner, the headlights, not the passenger side tailight, the rear license plate light works, and finally not the maplight over the "radio grille". i just happened to think "i wonder what will happen if i try what they do in the movies when theyre running out of gas?" after switching on the ignition switch, i tapped the gauge a couple times and it shot up from down at the bottom to 3/4 tank! i couldnt stop laughing. actually i found every time i turn the switch back on i have to tap it for it to work, hehe. maybe itll unstick with some use. the radio turns on (light turns on behind the tuning dial/face thing) but no matter what i go to, no matter what i put the two switches to (city, country, st. car, the other one i forget the three options) i dont hear anything. i extended the antenna all the way too (that thing is BIG!) but still nothing. and last but not least, the horn works too! i LOVE it! what a great horn, sounds just like the car that almost hits michael j fox's character in back to the future 2, that had me laughing.

today i also put some marvel mystery oil down the spark plug holes, when i get new motor oil, ill pull em out again and crank it over for the first time, then itll be the big moment, to actually try and start it! i cant wait. i siphoed some gas out with tubing and a squeeze bottle, its orange, but not real dark! i put a little in the spark plug hole of my lawnmower, and the thing friggin started! it smoked a bunch, and ran rough but ran on it! so i think theres a good chance this thing will start even on the crappy old fuel in there. (of course ill probably get the rest out and replace it with good gas)

so once again WHEW lots of typing in a 20 minute period, feast on that!

Paul

[Centurion]

Paul, it's a great report, and it's super that you're documenting everything with photos.

You'll soon be on your way. I would agree that you should replace the fuel rather than try to run it with the old gasoline, however, as I've heard of others making this mistake -- and regretting the expensive engine repairs that were then required.

If you have opportunity, this would be a great story to copy and paste over to the new pre-war forum! Thanks for keeping us updated.

[Guest ZondaC12]

i agree maybe it belongs in the pre-war forum? like i said before an admin can if they want. in fact yeah, ill make the request now. please move this to the pre war forum somebody. thanks!

[Guest imported_Thriller]

Nicely done with the tale and the photos. I'll agree on the old gas thing. When you do get things going and shiny and all, you will want to dig deeper into the interior - if you don't notice it now, you will eventually notice the smell. Mice are evil (OK, not really, but they can do lots of bad stuff to cars).

Good luck with getting everything going...I wish I was able to devote the same kind of time you are having with the '38 to my '66 Wildcat.

Enjoy and when things seem stuck or not going your way, take a break before someone gets hurt or something gets broken.

[Guest ZondaC12]

oh yeah i notice the old musty smell! it isnt really too strong though, so thats good.

yesterday i put the 6 quarts of oil in, decided to try and crank it over. (removed all spark plugs first). i was really scared, that it might be seized for god knows what reason or i might score the cylinder walls or something (even though i put about two tablespoons worth of marvel mystery oil into each cylinder two days prior). so i sat there for a second, my foot on the gas pedal, not being able to bring myself to push it. after 10 seconds or so, i just said to myself, i gotta try, itll be alright. so i did it, slwoly pushed it until the starter clicked, and i saw (the hood was opened) the fan shaking a little and SLOWLY turning counter clockwise. so i panicked and stopped. i tried it again and after a second, it loosened right up and started spinning much faster. i noticed it turns slow though, not sure what rpm it is (or what it should be for that matter) all i know is even my friend's old 70's tractor briggs and stratton engine cranks faster than this, and so does my homemade go-kart engine when i pullstart it! i decided to try it with the plugs in, and it didnt crank much slower, but at one point in the cycle around it slows a little, which makes sense, any engine does this. however i was afraid when i checked the oil dipstick, as it was a tiny bit abov the "low" mark. so i said no more cranking tonight, especially since neither the oil pressure gauge moved at all at anytime nor did i see the valvetrain oiled up when i pulled the valve cover. by the way i also drained the coolant from both drains. the one on the block took forever to drain out, very small stream, but it ended up letting out into my drip pan maybe between a 1/2 gallon and 1 gal. the one under the radiator i doubt if it let out a half gallon. but both let out water that was a little green (like the color of antifreeze green) and it was clean.

today i was gonna start it, because after talking with my uncle, he said its ok if the engine idles for about 10-20 seconds without oil pumping through, and maybe that would be spinning fast enough to actually pump oil. i used a pump meant for fuel/oil and a plastic tube i stuck down the tube going to the gas cap, and pumped all of the gas in the tank out, and replaced it with fresh gas. i tried to start it but it wouldnt even pop once. i pulled all the plugs again to make it crank faster (i have someone ill borrow a 6v charger from so ill make sure the battery is at full voltage too to make sure its cranking as fast enough to ensure spark) and attached just one plug to a wire (also tried it with a few of the wires, and attached an alligator clip to the threading, attached the other end to a piece of bare exposed metal that was connected to the block so it was ground, cranked it, (stood next to the car and pushed the rod connected to the gas pedal) no spark. tried other plugs too, and the brand new looking ones i found in a box in the glove box. (by the way i tested them with my go kart engine, they sparked) and this was cranking at its fastest, with no plugs in, so either ignition coil (i really hope not!) or points/condenser maybe? i think i said before i also found brand new condition points and condenser in their own packaging boxes in the glove box so i can replace them if i need to.

[Glassesguy]

Paul:

Pull the distributor cap and move it aside, turn the ignition on, and observe the points as they open and close while the engine cranks. There needs to be a spark jumping that gap. If not, turn off ignition and gently scrape the surfaces with a pen knife or ladies nail file. I assume you'll be replacing the points at some time any way, but right know we need to see a spark there. The high voltage necessary to fire the plugs is induced in the coil when the points open, NOT when they close. If you do not see the points open and close, then you'll need to adjust the little set screw on the distributor plate until they do. I assume you have purchased a shop manual( preferably a repro one so you don't mind getting it dirty while working on the car) so you can read up on the distributor and the points. If a blue spark now shows up at the point gap, put everything back together and try your normal starting procedure. Sounds like your plugs are okay, so I'll bet you'll get some firing. By the way, if you are doing this yourself, instead of running back and forth and wondering how you can both crank the engine and observe the points, I simply remove the stamped metal cover on the starter solenoid (it's held on with a small screw), then turn the ignition on and press down on the solenoid contact that is now visible. You won't get a poke, but it does feel different when you do this for the first time. I learned this from older BCA guys years ago when I had a 38 Model 41. I'm enjoying your posts and thank you for taking the time to do this. They bring back memories for all of us when we got our first cars to work on.

[Guest ZondaC12]

yes i do have a shop manual, someone i met at the local chapter lawn show at a nearby museum who i talked to about this car, and showed him pictures i took, two days later called me. he wanted my mailing address so he could mail me a shop manual he just happened to have for this car.

where about is the starter solenoid? it is one of the black boxes on the firewall? is that the click i hear when i turn the igniton switch on?

also, what do you think about the oil problem?

[Gene Brink]

Paul,

Several things to check.

1) Cable connections to insure you are getting proper voltage through the system (might be the cranking speed problem as well)

2) Pull the coil wire from the distributor and hold the end around 3/16" from a clean ground point on the engine and have someone crank the engine. Should get a nice spark jumping to ground. If so the coil is good (and probably both primary and secondary circuits).

3) Might be the distributor cap. Check for dirt, moisture, corrosion, cracks, etc

4) Possibly the spark plug wires/terminals are bad?

5) Only if you got no spark from coil test above connect a test lamp between the distributor primary lead and ground and crank the engine again. If the test light flickers on and off the primary circuit should be okay and the points are opening and closing (but the setting could be way off - either gap or timing). If the test light remains on the points are not closing properly or the ground inside the distributor is bad. Check gap setting and all electrical connections. If light remains off when engine is cranked the primary circuit is open or the points are not opening properly. Check points and connections again and if all is okay you probably need a new coil.

6) If all checks out your ignition timing or point gap is apt to be way out of spec so the car won't start.

One last point about the cranking speed it has been many years since I had a 6 volt car but I do clearly remember that they crank considerably slower than 12 volt systems so don't be too concerned that the engine does not really crank over as fast as you are used to in newer cars.

Good luck.

[Guest ZondaC12]

i tried test number 2 that you mentioned. there was nothing. but i want to be sure im doing the right thing. you meant to pull the spark plug wire-looking one from the distributor right? also i have a multimeter with a conductivity/continuity test that beeps if the circuit is complete. could this identify a dead coil? i put one lead's terminal to the terminal on the coil marked with a + sign and the other to the one with the - next to it and it beeped. however when i tried putting one on one of those +/- ones and the other into the center one (i made sure the contact was good and tried all different arrangements) it didnt beep. also i pulled off the distributor cap and everything inside looked real good, almost pristine, especially the inside of the cap. so let me know if this means anything significant

[Glassesguy]

Paul:

Gene had some great suggestions. His #5 will accomplish what my main suggestion was regarding the points opening and closing. I just like to observe the points directly. Do I understand from your last post you pulled both the + and - wires from the top of the coil and tried to get continuity from each one of them to the center post of the coil? If so, that won't do or show anything. Put those + and - wires back on the coil. The wire from the distributor goes to the - post on the coil. This is the primary lead that Gene refers to. The other wire from the wiring harness goes on the + side of the coil. Recall that it is the magnetizing and demagnetizing of the coil accomplished by the opening and closing of the distributor contact points that induces the high voltage to jump the spark plug gap to be produced by the coil. Gene's test lamp flickering on and off as the engine cranks will indicate if that action is taking place. That's what I feel you need to determine right now. Section 12 of your 38 Shop Manual shows more on the distributor and coil. Wiring diagrams are toward the back of the manual. The stater solenoid is the cylndrical object on top of the starter motor. Coming out the firewall side is a link that goes down to the starter drive that engages the starter pinion to the flywheel to crank the engine. On the front side is the stamped metal cover to which I referred in my last post. The click you hear could be the gas guage needle or the charge indicator needle moving into postion when the ignition circut is energized by flipping the ignition switch. Check this out on your next attempt. Good Luck!!

[Glassesguy]

Paul:

I reread your post and didn't address your oil question. I think your oil level is fine for now. It will take a lot of cranking to get up enough oil pressure to feed oil to the rocker assembly at this time. Ideally, you'd completely remove the rocker arm shaft assembly and throughly clean it. This might be a little more than you want to do at this time as on reassembly everything would be under tension and hard to properly torque. For now pour engine oil over this assembly. Any excess will drain into the crankcase. At least you will have some top end lubrication until the engine comes up to speed to produce the correct pressure. Also, as others said, these engines will crank slow and I'd bet yours will be slower yet due to its having sat for a long time. Hang in there.

[groselle]

Paul,

Your trouble sounds very similar to the problems I had starting my 1936 Special for the first time. Turns out in my case that it was the coil. Bob's Automobilia has replacements for about $12. Once I put the new coil in it fired right up after sitting for 40 years. You can read some of the things I did before starting it here: http://home.earthlink.net/~gtroselle/ in the restoration log section.

There's nothing like getting these beauties fired up the first time.

Greg

[Guest ZondaC12]

yes actually i read quite a bit of that '36 buick page you have. $12!!! wow. i cant believe its that cheap. thats always nice.

Glassesguy: i did not remove any wires except for the one thats exactly like the spark plug wires that goes from the terminal right smack in the middle of the coil to the distributor cap. this wire, i pulled it off the distributor cap ONLY, and tried to get a spark jumping between that and a ground point.

with a voltmeter theres the two leads which connect to needle-like terminals you touch to things to test em get voltage etc...... so i touched those to the + and - terminals on the coil and got a beep tone (it stays on until the circuit is broken ie you pull them off the thing your testing) i also tried the different combinations for one on the + or the - and the other on the middle post, and those yielded no beep. what i was asking was if that is a way to idenfity a bad coil?

but i will try the first test i tried, but ill use that wire that goes from the - post to the distributor this time.

[Guest ZondaC12]

whoa! i was about to start backing out the screw the holds the wire going from the - post to the side of the distributor, and i remembered seeing a wire atached to the inside of that and a nut on the other end and a couple of other things. am i wrong again on the wire or is this definitely the wire i should be holding to a ground point to check for a spark? i also think im just gonna order a new coil anyway from Bob's, its not that expensive, and as i mentioned before i found a new set of points and condenser on the glovebox, so i can replace it all if i want, which i probably will.

[Glassesguy]

Paul:

You really don't have to undo the wire to run the test that Gene suggested. Either rig up or go to the parts store and buy a test light that has an alligator clip on one end and a probe on the other. Fasten the clip to the battery ground because it's nearby and touch the probe to the terminal on the distributor that you are concerned about taking apart. With the ignition on, have somebody crank the engine ( or do my shortcut previously suggested ) and watch to see if the light flickers on and off. If it flickers then the points are opening and closing as they should. If there is no flickering, then the worlds newest and hottest coil will won't do a bit of good, because the coil depends on the circut being broken by the points to do its job. I know you're probably planning to replace some of these items anyway and that's fine; but money and these parts don't grow on trees (at least not here in Ohio, although if you've read to news lately we seem to have rare coins to lose). Anyway, what will you plan to do if your new Bob's coil doesn't solve the problem? Please take the time to do either Gene"s #5 suggestion or my way which is to simply pop the 2 springs that hold on the cap and have somebody turn on the ignition and crank the engine a few turns while you observe the points. No spark means either file them to try and get a spark or replace them. If you get a spark then buy your coil from Bob's. Since joining this forum I'm really impressed how many of these guys really dig in to the diagnostic aspects of their car problem and I am learning alot as well. They want to know what's going on so a logical sequence can be followed and the proper parts can found. This may be a hobby, but time and especially money still count. The less we're workin on 'em, the more we can drive 'em. Good luck Paul and keep those posts coming.

[Gene Brink]

Paul,

You pulled the correct wire to check for coil output. Dave is giving tons of good info - just take it slow and check step by step to narrow down the possibilities. You may well need a new coil but need to be certain you are getting current to your points (as well as the coil) as well as determine that the points are opening and closing (redressing the points as Dave points out is an excellent idea) in order to be certain the coil is not putting out.

Pretty simple overall and you will certainly find your problem soon (and then you can start on something else...).

Good luck

[Guest ZondaC12]

i did pull the distributor cap and crank the engine, i have a metal rod i can push the gas pedal rod with to crank the engine, so i can do it from the passenger side of the engine. i did also pull the cap and crank it but didnt see a spark jumping. of course i had pulled out the spark plugs to relieve the engine if compression so it could crank fast, maybe ill just hook an alligator clip wire from a spark plug wire to the battery ground, if i want to do it that way to look at the points. but they did open and close in a fashion that seemed correct to me, i would guess the timing is right, ive been told it ran perefectly before, but who knows.

thanks for the info so far Glassesguy!

[Glassesguy]

Paul:

Now we're making progress. No spark at the points eh?? Not necessary to ground a spark plug wire to the battery ground. Won't accomplish anything. It's okay that the plugs are out for now, too. Now scrape those points as Gene and I advocate. Pen knife, nail file, or points file (yes,they do exist). That's good to know that the engine ran good before storage. Electrical contact points of any kind can oxidize during storage. Good chance that's what's happened here. Once you see a spark here, then you can try holding the distributor end of the wire coming out of the center of the coil near a clean spot on the engine block. Are the smaller coil wires hooked up too? Turn on the ignition and crank (I hope you can get someone to do the cranking for you).Insulate yourself by holding the wire with a thick cloth and/or wear rubber gloves. That's a mean poke coming out of the coil. With a nice spark here, it means the coil is probably ok. No spark means new coil needed. Now, replace the distributor cap after being sure you have put the rotor back on if you took it off. Carefully hold a spark plug wire near a clean spot on the block, turn the ignition on and crank. A spark here means you're in business ignitionwise. No spark may indicate you need to shine up the tip on the rotor. Put the plugs and wires back in place. Assuming you're getting gas to the carb in the right amount, some firing should start to happen. With this whole sequence you've been analyzing the ignition system part of the 3 things necessary for an engine to run ie. fuel, ignition, and compression. You may eventually wish to upgrade with new points, wires, plugs etc. to improve the quality of the way the engine runs; however my experience with straight 8's is that they are very forgiving even with less than perfect components. Good luck and keep all of us posted.

[Guest ZondaC12]

well yesterday i decided to take a small piece of sandpaper, fold it up, and shove it between the two points i pushed the arm open to make a tiny bit mroe space. i moved it back and forth several times as quick as i could in the tiny space (not very quick) and pulled it out, cranked the engine, and boy did i see ONE HELL of a big blue spark jumping! so i next put the cap back on and cranked it, and as the wires were sitting next to the block as usual, with the plugs out, i saw a nice big blue spark from each plug as it got energized with a nice, continuous, rhythmic clicking of the spark jumping that just made me more excited than ever before with this car. so i next put all of the plugs back in, and filled the cooling system back up with a nice 50-50 coolant/water mix, and opened the drain valve on the block for a second and saw a nice stream, so it worked its way through everything!

TODAY 6/14/05: the big day, i had my just-as-interested-in-cars engines, etc-and-as-anxious-to-see-the-thing-work friend over, and prepared to start it this afternoon. we rolled it out, i pulled the air filter, put some starting fluid down the carb, and then cranked it by standing next to the car and pushing the gas pedal rod. it turned over slow cuz id been wearing the battery down with cranking it and such, but to my utter amazement, after a couple seconds, IT FIRED RIGHT UP. i gave it a tiny bit of throttle at first but i was too cautious because it was just starting and there was no oil through the system (if it would ever start pumping oil) and it stalled. probably because of the marvel mystery oil in the cylinders and i didnt put much starting fluid in, AND the first fuel it was receiving (what was in the plastic tubing) was the OLD OLD gasoline.

i put more starting fluid in and cranked it. it turned slow, but wouldnt pop. i decided to pour a little bit of "dry gas" (isopropyl alcohol fuel line antifreeze/water remover) down the carb and it really liked that stuff! it fired up and kept running and i gave it a little throttle to keep it going, and after a couple minutes it was purring like a kitten. really low idle, at least compared with modern cars, but it didnt hiccup, stutter, pop or backfire.

and to top it all off: i ran over and looked at the gauges and the charge indicator was right up there (midway between the top and neutral point), the temperature gauge very slowly climbed (in a few minutes it would settle in at a comfy roughly 180 degrees) and the oil pressure had jumped to almost 60, and was slowly coming down (it would settle in around 30 and would vary accordingly when i revved it a little). i couldnt believe it!!! i had been imaginging "gee wouldnt it be neat if this thing started and ran and the oil pressure and cooling system worked perfectly?" but at the same time i figured "nah therell be some problem and ill have to pull the pan off or something and do a major overhaul. it was a huge relief that it all just worked out.

the only hitch was that i noticed a leak from somewhere on the bottom of the waterpump that i couldnt see from either side but i could see a tiny stream running down the block. this was after it started and stalled. i put a pan underneath the front end of the frame where theres a large 3" hole right in the middle of the frame (not sure of the intention of this design?), and when i started it again, the leak stopped, but one started somewhere else im guessing, because coolant was dripping instead off of the platform right under the radiator, towards the left (as you face the front of the car). but after running for a few minutes nothing more dripped again. i started it again later today and still no dripping whatsoever. so im not sure what "repaired" the leak(s) but hey if its good why worry right?

a couple times i tried restarting it just to see what happened and i think the combination of it cranking a little to slow and not having run for awhile was why it didnt start even after cranking for almost ten seconds. but a tiny capfull of dry gas, a two-second cranking, and it popped right off, every time.

so to sum it all up, the last day of school for me was topped off with one hell of a way to kick off another great summer . what a milestone this is. my friend videotaped it with my camera, ill use my computer's capture card and digitize it soon, and host it somewhere so you can all download it! i really love the sound of it! when it was winched onto the flatbed truck, the muffler fell off, and the pipe that would connect it to the header is hanging almost only by a thread, so the thing has this awesome blub-blub-blub sound just like a v8 muscle car that's just too cool. and its not obscenely loud either. its pretty loud, but very bearable and it can easily be talked over at idle. i guess thats the extremely low 6.1:1 compression ratio in action! thats really the only noise though, i really cant hear valves tapping or anything, i think it just got the oil up there SO much quicker than i thought it would and it smoothed right out.

it just gets better and better as i go we need a smiliey holding a drink, so i can make a toast "to more good luck ahead"

[Glassesguy]

YYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Congratulations. What sweet sound it is. You'll remember this one always.

[Guest sixpack2639]

Guys, sounds like we've got another lifer in this young man.

Paul, keep up the good work. It only gets better from here. Carl

[Gene Brink]

Congratulations, Paul! Looking forward to your further adventures...

[Guest imported_MrEarl]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you have opportunity, this would be a great story to copy and paste over to the new pre-war forum! Thanks for keeping us updated. </div></div>

or possibly the Me and My Buick Forum. This is precisely what I had hoped would be a typical thread for that Forum, spanning all years...

There's no prettier sound than that of hearing an old Buick firing and running for the first time in who knows when

[Centurion]

Yeah! Thanks for keeping us posted on your "journey" with the Buick. This is exciting stuff, so please keep the updates coming!

[Guest ZondaC12]

absolutely! i update this as frequently as im working on it!

well, in accordance with this ill post what i did today.

i wanted to pull off the exhaust pipe that goes between the header and the muffler. yeah, it ended up taking about 2 hours, as i tried many ways and used lots of rustbreaker liquid on the bolt on the left side of the flange (as you face the engine from the driver's side). very oddly, it was loose (as in the nut was not screwed all the way up on the bolt as to tightly hold the pipe in place against the bottom of the header so the pipe hung loosely and i thought it was hanging by a thread like the muffler was before. however i could not get it to budge ONE BIT. i ended up using my par of vise grips to instead hold the nut underneath to push the bolt up a little so i could use a small handheld metal cutting hacksaw and saw of the head. because of the awkward position, i cut through the shank enough to rip of the head as if i was unscrewing it and it broke off, and i examined the shank part, which fell through right to the floor, and that nut will never ever leave that shank, it is so badly rusted together it seems like it was welded. it was a different story for the bolt on the other side, because as i took my two wrenches, one to hold the nut and the other to loosen the bolt, as i tried to force it to loosen, it pushed out the side! i discovered that at the end of the flange a chunk of it was gone! so basically the hole the bolt goes through is a "C" not a full hole. im not sure why this is, though my dad probably never replaced anything in the exhaust system, so if this happened before he owned it or during that time he likely never knew about it. i am very concerned, is this still usable? if this needs replacement, or if in the case you all think i can use it as is, and later i just want to replace it, is this a separate piece from the header? if not im not replacing it for a LONG time, i happened to check headers before on Bob's Automobilia and a header is almost $600!!!! i cant imagine why this is, but it is what it is and im not paying it unless i absolutely have no other choice.

anyway that was todays events, it was loosely there so i wanted to get rid of it, tomorrow i might pull off the tailpipe, maybe that will be a less frustrating process. although im sure all of those bolts will be very rusty too!

[Guest imported_Thriller]

Excellent...I've been away, so I got to read the finer points of '38 ignitions, then success in getting it started. It was a pretty exciting read.

I need to get me the thumbs up smiley....

[Guest ZondaC12]

TODAY:

i got the tailpipe off, the clamp that holds it to the muffler is torn apart from me trying to undo the bolts, theyre not that rusty but theyre tough, at least i got the thing off, and i just unbolted the hanger from its mount. gotta pull off the exhaust manifold, ive been talking with JohnD1956 and he thinks i need to get that flange break-off welded as in a new piece welded on the end, so thats next

[Guest ZondaC12]

UPDATE:

got the manifold off. i sort of wish they didnt use that heating system, and the way theyre both bolted up, made it very hard to get just the exhaust one off. although it wouldve helped a lot if i had someone else help me, my fault, stupid move hehe but i got it off even though it was quite a juggling act.

the next thing i will work on is the brakes. i checked on the front left wheel, didnt get around to looking at the others, i pulled it off and i could move (with a LOT of effort because of the strong springs) the brake pads so the brake cylinders might be ok??? no??? what is most likely (if there is something that IS most likely in this case) to be the cause of the brake pedal being frozen in the released position. it will not depress at all save the play that it has before it actually pushes on the master cylinder. i know little about brake systems, but would that master cylinder be frozen or jammed or something? id rather not tear everything that has to do with the brakes apart if its just something with the master cylinder.

[Guest sixpack2639]

Paul, It definitly sounds like the M/C is frozen. Brakes are one thing you do not want to skimp on. If the M/C is frozen then you have or have had moisture (water) in the system and the best thing to do is rebuild/replace the M/C and all 4 wheel cylinders and flush or replace the lines. Safety First! IMHO Better to do it now than have an accident and say shoulda, coulda did'nt. Carl

[Guest ZondaC12]

alrighty thanks!!! i just needed an idea of what had to be done. and i do plan to not drive it at all until i am absolutely sure those brakes are in perfect order. and if it takes me a lot longer than i hope for to get the brakes done, so be it. id like to get it driveable this summer, but even if i cant ill be ok with that. theres no rush. the only distance i move it now is in and out of the garage, because the parking brake, pulled the farthest up i can pull it (without using so much force as to break something) can hold the car in place but on even a shallow grade, like that of a little less than a highway exit ramp, im sure it wouldnt be able to. so that will need repair too. maybe the pads are worn down or something. but that and a couple of 2x4 wood blocks keeps it in place very well.

[Guest sixpack2639]

Paul, Check your service manual. It should give you detailed instructions on how to adjust your parking brake. Carl

[Guest ZondaC12]

a few days ago i brought the manifold to my uncle who works in a fabrication shop, and he made the repair to the flange. my mom reminded me of this and i agreed it was a good idea and he was happy to do it for me and didnt charger me for the job. with the help of my little brother i got the manifold back on, and started it up, ive been anxious to because im sure its just good for it to run and to heat it up and keep moisture from continuing more rust as best as i can. started up just as well as it has been, with very little cranking.

my uncle has a very good friend who works at a Midas near me who he said will do a very good exhaust system for me and it will be very close to stock, as close as he can. im going to borrow some small ramps from him this week so i can have the front end of the car up a decent amount to work on the brakes.

John:

i understand what youre saying re: the ramps, ill see what theyre like, if they have rubber feet to keep them from sliding or something. if not, i have rubber sheets i dont know where my dad got em from, maybe from GE where he worked, probably left over rubber electrical insulation material stuff. ill try that and ill make sure theyre stable if theres any doubt i wont use em. in terms of it rolling backward, i have lots of 2x4 and other small wood blocks and things like that to put behind the back wheels. this car is always in my garage except when i roll it out to start it. i would try to avoid having to work on it outside in this heat unless i really had to, and i know what you mean with the driveway so id try to avoid that too.

------------>I will post pics of the fixed flange this evening!<----------

[Guest ZondaC12]

sorry!!!!

i couldnt use my digital camera until today so i didnt get the picture that night! i guess i shouldnt make claims like that, im sure i disappointed many people. well ive attached it now, the part of the flange to the right of the red line i drew is what was broken off you can see the rust the manifold has, the flange is like that too, but in the area my uncle repaired he cleaned it up nice and you can see fresh metal now.

i really wish i hadnt thrown out the original piping, i could go to a local auto parts store and get flexible tubing and route the exhaust under the car but i have no pipe with a flange to bolt up to the manifold.

this would be so the engine bay wont get filled with smoke when i run it, and when i finally drive it to the place that will install a real exhaust system, so that no backfires shoot out just the manifold and it wont heat up the plate/pan thing below and have any risk of anything burning/warping/melting etc, and the noise will at least be under the car so it wont bother people quite as much as running it off the manifold. if anyone has any ideas as to where i could purchase something like this or have it made please let me know.