Buick advertising campaign

[Guest]

I am a student at the University of Kansas. I am working with the advertising company, McCann-Erickson, who is responsible for Buick's advertising. I'm trying to come up with new ideas for McCann-Erickson to improve its advertising. I was hoping some loyal Buick owners out there had some time to answer some basic questions. Please either reply or send replies to buickcampaign@hotmail.com or at jknix@ku.edu. Please I would like to talk to you so email your address or phone number as well.<P>1) Complete the sentnce: Buick is...<P>2)What type of person buys a buick?<P>3)Did you know Buick sponsors Tiger Woods? How do you feel about that?<P>4) Why do you feel proud about owning a buick?

[Guest]

Sounds like your trying to get your work done for you..... I'll answer only one, #3. I would think everyone caught the Tiger Woods and the Rendezvous he was advertising. How do I feel about it? It's typical of celebs. I guess if I was golfer or Tiger fan it'd have a lil impact. But then again, the target market has always been the Country Club folk, hasn't it...?...

[our51super]

Maybe we'll do your work for you if you will sing "My Buick, My Love and I" for us.

[Reatta Man]

OK, guys and gals! Nearly all of us have taken pot shots at the boring cars GM and most of Detroit is building these days. Yet, here is a chance to influence at least the direction the advertising is going in and most of you are passing it up. Shame!<P>Jeremy, I'll answer your questions, but you may not like the answers or the reasons why I give these answers. <BR> <BR>1. Buick is: (pick one) dull, boring, bland,overpriced, lacking in engineering or design pazaaz. I wish I could say bold, different, exciting or innovative. But, I don't think that even Bill Clinton could stretch the truth that much and still keep a straight face. The colors look like they were selected by the National Funeral Directors Association. I've yet to see an interesting Buick concept car displayed at the Detroit, New York, Chicago or LA auto shows in the last few years. Yes, they did build a hot Regal GSX for the SEMA show a couple of years ago, then told us they would never build it. Pity. Specifically, the Regal/Century body is over five years old, and is showing its age. The Park Avenue looks more like a 1952 Buick than something designed for anyone under 70. And the Riviera? Oh, wait, that's right, there IS NO RIVIERA!! The only Buick that looks the LEAST bit interesting is the Lesabre, but then there are those boring, dark colors, the lack of bucket seats and a floor shifter and no supercharged V-6. And, oh, as to price--why should I want to buy a Regal GS or Lesabre Limited for about $30-33K when I can buy a new 2003 Cadillac for about the same money? <P>2. Who drives a (new) Buick? Unfortunately, older people. Why? Probably out of intense loyalty. Don't get me wrong--Buick quality is still outstanding, but everything else about newer Buicks is old, tired or fairly unoriginal. If only they could remeber their heritage of building great looking cars for a reasonable price.... <P>3. Tiger Woods pushing the Rendezvous? Yeah, I've seen it. I also know the Rendezvous is underpowered (3.4L V-6) with one of the sloooowest 0-60 times (11 seconds) of any SUV or minivan. They also decided to build it in Mexico using workers that make $2 per hour while putting thousands of Americans out of work and charging between $25-35K for one. Whoopee! And, then of course, there are those dark colors. Just how many shades of brown and gray are there in the Rendezvous catalogue? Answer: TOO many!<P>4. Why do you feel proud owing a Buick? Well, if you are asking about my 1965 Buick Wildcat custom convertible or my 1970 GS 350 coupe, I would just take you to the garage, remove the car cover, and ask you if they look like every other car going down the road. Ditto with the 1983, 1984 and 1985 Riviera convertibles, and the two Reattas I've owned in the past. But as for the 1999 Regal GS and 1995 Park Avenue Ultra I turned in when their leases were up, I couldn't say the same thing. <P>Jeremy, if you have a way to contact Bob Lutz at GM, please ask him to kick Buick in the butt and come up with some interesting cars--SOON!<P>Joe<BR>BCA#35663<p>[ 04-02-2002: Message edited by: Reatta Man ]

[Guest]

I am a 24 year old student. It is very difficult to get in the minds of Buicks target audience (45 years old and over) so the better you answer the questions, the better I can comprise an advertising campaign for Buick and help deliver the joys of driving a quality American car. Quality input, such as Reatta's, will help steer the direction. <P>Thanks again

[Guest]

THAT'S A J-HAWK FOR YOU.....<P>well, at least Kansas lost in the final four!<BR>(GO MISSOURI........ALSO, LOST!)<P>yes, simply get the 4/8/2002 copy of "business Week" on news stands today, and read the "Cadillac, can GM save an Icon" article which is on the cover.<P>really, the death of GM is the "Focus Group".<BR>No direct design talent involved, but groups of 24 soccer mom's, who want jelly bean shaped cars, kitty movers, so they get the sensation of what it's like to have a penis.<P>The different between a Chevy and a Buick of the same class, is plusher seats, that's it.<P>Sadly, Chrysler, pre-forth Reich, had some innovative designs. I would bUy Chrysler before Buick.<P>Again, Buick was the Doctors car, not the "Tiger" mobile, who far excides the common man and his income. Tiger's gardener is the only one in his social circle who might own a Buick! Tigers' got him a Benz.<BR>Don't pull that bullshit, were a millionaire is cruising in a Buick. Tigers new, "white" girl friend, would not be seen in a Buick.<P>So, Buick is a relic for the past, which used to stand for style and American built strength.<P>Who buys Buick, the "near-dead". <P>Tiger question, see above, Tiger washes the "Buick" off of him after the commercial shoot is over. Get an Old doctor on a house call, I might believe that if he 75 years old.<P>I feel proud of owning my 1927 Buick which had new feathers as front wheel brakes, valve over head engine, vibration damper of the crank shaft. Or my 1950 Buick which had straight 8-power and portholes.<P>Maybe they should get Ned Flanders out of the design department, I'm sure he owns a Buick.<P>Demographic, under 30

[Guest Skyking]

I agree with Tommy, Chrysler has been ahead of Buick for years, as a matter of fact, there ahead of everyone.......

[BUICK RACER]

Jeremy and the rest of your project team, you are going to hear alot of harsh words here, about Buick's current products, and for the most part they are "right on"! Buicks customers average age is 67 going on 68, and the real customers are 40 going on 45, they have Grand Nationals and '70s Gran Sports and enjoy the going fast with class versions of those vintage cars, and "they" really want to continue to own a BUICK, but there's nothing in the current lineup to "keep them hooked". Rendevzous? Huh? what it could have been with a 3800 and a real interior, I just got one as my GM company car, 5 or 6 different colors in the interior, look at what Chevy and GMC do with their trucks, truly a much better interior design and decor, the Rendevzous keeps you awake cause the interior is so crazy, it will make you crazy!<BR>A two door luxury sedan/coupe with a supercharged V6(cause it's really a buick engine) would be the ultimate, the Riviera of '95-99 was an awesome car, my mom calls her's the "Creampuff" but it was a wierd design for some people. Just saw a Chrysler RT today, hmm, two door, nice body design, I wouldn't have it but, there has to be something out there, the GM designers have up their sleeves. How about a version of the Blackhawk, it's driven many of us to continue to want a BUICK, check out the website at <A HREF="Http://www.buickclub.org/blackhawk/" TARGET=_blank>Http://www.buickclub.org/blackhawk/</A> <BR>That car has made more people interested in Buick than anything in many, many years!<BR>Good luck with your project, and if I can help some more let me know.<p>[ 04-02-2002: Message edited by: BUICK RACER ]

[BUICK RACER]

Jeremy, one other comment, maybe, just maybe Buick and the other GM car divisions should take a look at WHY, the truck products have been so popular? One consistancy in interior and design, quality totally excedes the car division,the truck group has covered the car division's losses for many years, but yeah, you can sit up higher and see the parking spaces at the supermarket and the mall, not to say you might feel safer,and not to say that you might always be safer, but there's something to be said with a full size vehicle(car), rear wheel drive, America grew up with rear wheel drive, the rest of the world still makes money with rear wheel drive vehicles, Holden, Opel, all GM versions of rear wheel drive, Lutz is listening, hopefully he hears the Buick fans clearly on what we want and need!<BR>Go Fast with Class, Safely in our Buicks!<BR>My ending comments in 2 years as the Buick Club of America President, and 12 years as Director of the Michigan Chapter of the Gran Sport Club of America, and parents whose first cars where Buicks, and have only owned one car other than a Buick in their whole lives! And that was an Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser, 1971 with a 2bbl, 455, with no A/C!!!!!!!!!!!! YUCK!

[Barney Eaton]

Here are my answers, them some comments.<BR>1. New Buicks are dull<BR>2. What type of person drives a new Buick, mostly dull people.<BR>3. Yes we all have seen Tiger.<BR>4. Yes I am proud to drive my (older) Buick.<P>This exercise is with an advertising company. They are trying to sell what they have, not improve it.<P>The new Rendezvous has the most eye stimulating interior of any Buick in several years. Not particurally the design but the colors. Even the most expensive Ultra has a very lackluster interior. Go back to the 50 and 60 and look at the interior colors.<P>The LeSabre is a very good selling car, with a few tweeks and the 3800 supercharged engine as an option think how may they might sell.<BR>Would I buy one? If I needed more room than the Regal GS offers.<P>So much for the college exercise, show us in the showroom.

[ranchero]

Jeremy: When I read your introductory paragraph the phrase "Buick advertising" struck me. My first thought was "what Buick advertising?". But of course you mention that famous golfer in the tornado created minivan ad; that I've seen. And I remember that Buick does often have a full page ad in the Bugle (thanks for the support to a publication I enjoy). But "Buick advertising" is really a foreign concept to me - for all the reasons above listed by writers more articulate than me. There is simply no new car sold at a Buick dealer that offers anything I want for me to even glance at a Buick print or TV ad. I know there is nothing at Buick for me; why should I bother to pay attention to Buick advertising? Jeremy, that is sad.<P>Because I do have an answer for question #4. I am proud of the Buicks I own because they are attractive, unique, striking, quality, two door banker's hot rods. They are an '82 Riviera convertible and a '97 Riviera and they just don't make 'em like they used to.<P>And as for question #3 - I don't give a damn about the golf star. I love cars and the brand Buick. I'm interested in Buick history and heritage. Neither the golfer nor the minivan reach my Buick psyche.

[Guest]

I would have to say that Buick is BORING! I can't really say I would buy a new Buick, they have no appeal to me. The last real chance to get me to buy was the Regal GS but I don't want a car that is like every other one on the road. To me the biggest mistake all auto makers have made is to"package" cars. There is no individuality available anymore. Iwant to be able to "build" my car the way I want it- the way I used to be able to do. The Regal GS in a 2 door with sparse adders and real performance would bring me back to Buick! As for question number 2 - People with no vision or desire to be different. Why do you think Chrysler is doing what it is now.?<BR>Tiger Woods!!! Get real- like he really drives a Buick! Get down to the real Buick lovers - the 40 -50 age group that grew up with the GS and Grand National. Show real people who drive REAL Buicks and let them tell why!<BR>I am very proud to drive my 70 GS Stage1 or my 65 Skylark (455 powered) and even my 23 T-Bucket (350 BUICK powered). To drive a new lackluster, boring Buick owuld do much for me. Bring back the excitement to Buick. They have the talent and knowledge to do it- So do it!!! Enough of the "same as every other GM car" look. Be different, be bold, Let Buick "Light your tires" again.

[Guest]

I tell you my thoughts and many others for your survey. <P>I have been a devoted Buick loyalist for over 10 years. I bought a brand new STS Caddy last year (I was 29) simply because Buick just can't compete. 300hp and more room and luxuries than the Regal GS. I was close to buying a Regal GS (out of brand loyalty) but when I compared the 2 there was just no comparison. The SC3800 could EASILY be making 325hp (and should be) but Buick has been sitting on there butts for over 13 years and to my understanding because of GM trying to regulate them. <BR>Obviously they aren't listening to their customers or they would have done something about it by now. Every year there are Buick reps at the Buick Nats in Bowling Green KY asking questions and bringing prototypes but they aren't doing anything about what the devoted customers want. Last year they brought the Blackhawk and flat out told us it was a tease after making our mouths water and NO-ONE there had objections to it.I would by one in a minute but according to the reps it'll never be. So why bother????? <P>Buick needs luxury & performance horsepower. Buick was making "REAL" cars long before turbos then they shut-down the V8 line. That was a BIG MISTAKE. Buick needs to bring back a BUICK 350 (at least) with some aluminum heads and heck the entire block and heads for that matter. They could easily get 350-400 hp out of it (even in a iron block) and put it in a Rear-wheel drive 2-door car, with all the luxuries and be NATURALLY ASPIRATED. Thats called Going Fast With Class! Buick didn't need power adders before and they don't need it now.<P>The devoted Buick enthusiast could care less about Tiger Woods and yupies. A big smack in the face to the Buick enthusiast is they are marketing vehicles that aren't Buicks or at least the engine isn't. If they can't put their own engine in it then don't call it a Buick. <P>If they are going to ask us what we think and get the unanimous response to get off their butts and make V8s, Rear-wheel drive, and up the horsepower in the SC3800 then they need to "listen" to us and give us what we want.<P>It saddens me to say but I feel that Buick is a has-been. Give them a bullet and put them out of their misery. When all the blue hairs are gone what are they going to do?? They have made their points that it doesn't matter what the devoted enthusiast want.This survey doesn't mean anything, they don't care. May Buick die just like Oldsmobile..that's what might as well be.<P>Ronnie buickman69@yahoo.com

[Dave@Moon]

Jeremy,<P>I'd add my answers to your four questions, but Joe and Roberta have really said everything that needs to be said there. I agree with both of them whole-heartedly.<P>We are car enthusiasts. We like cars. Buicks have become cars for people who don't like cars, they like their living room and want to take <I>it</I> to the pharmacy for their Viagara. You'll not find much positivity on those subjects here.<P>I will address your premise, however, that being your desire to help "improve (Buick's) advertising". <P>Here is how out of touch Buick currently is. The new slogan, <I>"It's all good"</I>, was (I believe) coopted from current inner city street slang. This phrase is occasionally used in it's surface meaning/complementary form. However, more often than not, there is a sense of sarcasm implied when it's used. If you spend 25 minutes watching stand-up comics on BET or Comedy Central you can come accross this meaning quickly. <P>Often you'll see something like this: <I>"It's all good!!!"</I> <P>That Buick probably <I>still</I> hasn't percieved this irony, or the implications it holds for their product line, speaks volumes about the care that has gone into their product planning and marketing. <P>There is only one hope for Buick. They need to develop a product line that reflects the diverse range of transportation needs of people beyond their current crop of empty-nesters (compare Buick to Toyota or BMW). They need to execute those products in an impecable fashion (again, Toyota or BMW) with unimpeachable quality (ask Chrysler what happens when you forget that part!). Then they need to realize something that Bunkie Knudsen knew in 1957: "You can sell a old man a young man's car, but never a young man an old man's car."<p>[ 04-02-2002: Message edited by: Dave@Moon ]

[Guest]

Buick.......Advertising.....HMMM.......<P>Well, let's come up with some gimmicky thoughts.<BR>Buick...We won the 1st Indy 500.<P>When Buicks are built....Hecho en Mexico.<P>Buick...The GM Cookie mold.<P>My dad still owns a Buick, a 1970.<P>Buy a Buick...No one will want to steal it.<P>Buick...We built excitement(long ago).<P>Buick...you won't overpower OUR brakes!<P>Please buy one, and we'll listen to you next year!<P>I don't know, but I don't think I'm cut out for advertising.....On the off chance that anyone at GM cares to read these offerings, I guess I'll add my two bits to the previous great posts.<BR> Buick was always the slot just below Cadillac, and they have slipped a few places. We have been watching it for a number of years, and it disappoints many of us. The hallmarks had once been quality and performance, wrapped in style. Buicks from the earliest creations had been deceptively powerful,with smooth ride, great handling and perennially fresh designs.I can't tell you the number of guys I've talked to who still remember the shock of having their butts kicked by some other guy in a bone-stock Buick, going back to the '50's.<BR> I can honestly say that I haven't been excited about a Buick offering since 1987. The Reatta almost got me out of my easy chair.<BR> Doctors cars, huh? Well, I am one, and I have 3 '66 Skylark GS's and a 1970 Stage 1 convertible. I don't drive a stodgy car during my free time,though a 91 Audi takes me to work.It's a turbo,however, and would whoop a new Buick off the line all day long, even with a superstar golfer at the wheel. The fastlaners at the country club who still care to buy American, are driving Northstar Caddies.<BR>I wouldn't mind owning one myself. To be honest, I would rather spend the money to restore a tired GN, GS, 65 Riviera or '56 Roadie, than to drive a non-union made non-American discussion group mobile. In fact, I promised David McDavid Buick that I would never buy a new Buick after they treated me shabbily in 1992. I made the same promise to GM after they cracked down with the FEDS on the few guys making repro parts to keep my old Buicks looking good. So I guess I should recuse myself from this discussion. Thanks for listening. Dan<P>null

[Guest]

A Buick is now a Pontiac with more chrome to appeal to old folks. A Rendezvous is an Aztek with some of the ugly scraped off. A LeSabre is a Bonneville. People are not stupid - why pay more for the same McGM models? Mercury:Ford as Buick:Pontiac. Little extra substance for the money.<BR>Buick is unlikely to get rwd soon, as Cadillac needs it first. Cadillac led the US luxury market in sales since passing Packard in 1950, and has now gone to 5th in 2 years. The STS has a drivetrain, but the paint job on the last one I saw would be average for a $20,000 car.<P>Buick is not going to be cutting edge, but then they rarely were. I suggest that GM give them an exclusive on the 3.5 ohc engine that died with Olds. Put that in the mid-size. GM no longer has a suitable rwd large platform (truck platforms handle like trucks). One is due in a couple years. LeSabre can soldier on until then. Retro coupe ("Riviera"?) on the CTS platform - target is T-Bird. Another possible offering would be a mid size wagon - a terrific one exists in the fold now - the Alfa 156.

[Guest COMPACTBC]

Well Jeremy, I guess you are really getting an earful from all these Buick Club members. It's pretty hard to come up with a good advertising program when the product being produced is so HO HUM! Buick needs to take a LONG, HARD, LOOK and what BMW, Mercedes and Lexus are producing. They are rear wheel drive, powerful and have quality interiors and exterior design. I saw the Buick Cielo concept car at the Orange County car show and was favorably impressed with its ovrall appearence let's hope if they produce it they put something powerful under the hood and connect it to a rear wheel drivetrain.

[Guest]

ROBERTA THIS IS FOR YOU, AS CHAIRPERSON,SO<BR>TO SPEAK, OF THE BCA HAS ANY OF THESE COMMENTS, NOT JUST THIS PARTICULAR FORUM, BUT ALL FORUMS, BEEN FORWARDED TO LUTZ AND<BR>HIS MANAGEMENT TEAM? THERE ARE SOME REALLY EXCELLENT COMMENTS THAT REALLY NEED TO BE DOCUMENTED AND FORWARDED TO HIM. IF COMMENTS<BR>ARE ON PAPER AND NOT VERBAL MOST OF THE TIME THEY WILL GET ACROSS. AT CAR SHOWS VERBALIZATION IS JUST THAT NO ONE REMEMBERS<BR>WHAT WAS SAID. JUST MY THOUGHTS LOREN<BR>56 BUICK CENTURY OWNER

[Steve B]

1) Complete the sentence: Buick is...<P><B>A faded image of its former self.</B><P>2)What type of person buys a Buick?<P><B>Someone with less style and imagination then 300, Prowler, Forty-Nine and T-bird owners.</B><P>3)Did you know Buick sponsors Tiger Woods? How do you feel about that?<P><B>Yes: Annoyed and patronized. How about Daryl Waltrip or Tommy Ivo or anybody that has really driven and depended on a Buick?</B><P>4) Why do you feel proud about owning a Buick? <P><B>Drive my 63 Riv (a few years ago when it looked better), watch the kids wave to you from their lawns, see thumbs-up and smiles from other motorists and motorcyclists, and have someone wave you aside to say how nice it looks and ask if you want to sell it. Or, drive my 67 455 powered Skylark to the drag strip, run 11.20s all day long and drive home with the trophy in the back seat. Then you will understand true pride in Buick ownership. Do they have anything even worth a second look today?</B><p>[ 04-03-2002: Message edited by: Steve B ]

[riv2x4]

Buick is, at least according to my 40 year old wife, an old persons car. When looking for a new car for her a new Buick wasn't even a consideration. She ended up with an Acura 3.2, what a Buick was years ago. Fast, comfortable, sporty and classy. I like driving it almost as much as my 64 Riv. You answered your own question for #2, sixty somethings. Who cares about Tiger unless he can approve the Blackhawk. I am proud of my old Buicks because of the timeless styling, when every car didn't look like all the others. Jellybeans are for Easter baskets.<P>Larry<BR>64 Riv<BR>64 Electra convertible<BR>69 Electra 4 Dr Hdtp

[Guest]

Buick is...Not what it used to be. It WAS performance, class, style. IS bland performance,catatonic,uninspiring. It seems cadillic stole the performance with class identity recently, along with the pricing?<P>Person that buys a Buick: 40ish and up, middle-upper class, wants style, class, AND PERFORMANCE to show there is still some youth left in him/her. (Regal GS is a half-representation of this, but too cheapo in appearance, luxury for this person.)<P>Tiger is too young, and wouldn't really want to drive one anyway. I doubt you're fooling anyone except maybe an older guy that think it'll make him appear more youthful like Tiger Woods (most older-types that can afford one are probably more sophisticated than that though)<P>Owning a Buick:<BR>Class,Style, Performance. Read your history books, Straight 8 engines, 54-55 Buick Century, 64-65 2 4-barrel Wildcats and Rivieras, GS 455 Stage 1, Regal Grand National/T-type. Now get the sales stats on those cars. The best buicks were great perfomers with comfort,style, and horsepower. Something the Blackhawk embodies. Build one with a supercharged LS-1 or 8.1 liter truck engine, just build it!

[Brad Conley]

Geez, where does one begin....I drive a 99 Park Ave Ultra as a daily car. Wonderful car. Power, grace, handles well, but has no "pizzaz"(? sp). NOBODY notices you driving it. Bland as could be. Great car for undercover work. <P>On the Tiger Woods subject and the current advertising campaign: I could personally care less if Tiger was the "offical spokesman" for Buick, and that hokey line..."Its all good" is just plain stupid. Who thunk that up? What a joke.<P>I believe what all of us are trying to say is that we really want "content" in a vehicle, not some hokey new advertising campaign. Give us substance. Give us a car (or SUV or whatever) that we would all feel proud of driving, one that wears the Buick tri-shield proudly.<P>As an aside, I am in the market for a new vehicle. I have driven the Rendezvous. It does NOTHING for me. The right beginings are there, but that thing needs a REAL motor, like the 3800 or better yet the 3800 SC. It will not get out of it's own way. Pathetic. I am the "target" for most everybody (44 yr old male making a comfortable living). I've driven the Tahoe/Yukon's, the Navigator, the Lexus and the Toyota Sequoia and many other SUVs. You know what, Toyota BLOWS away the competition. Smooth, quiet, powerful, not bad looking, WONDERFUL interior. What fit! What finish! What a vehicle. AND it holds some resale value!!! That's a new concept at GM, resale value.<P>I have ALWAYS driven a GM vehicle from day 1. Yes, there has been other makes float thru from time to time, but my car has always been a GM vehicle. To be truthful, I'm not sure it will be next time unless something is done, and done soon.

[Guest]

1. Buick is not doing all it should to promote it's line of cars.Should never have dropped the Riviera. Gm continued to build the Aurora?<BR>2. A person who wants Cadillac luxury at an affordable price. (remember it's the banker's car,doesn't look like he has his hand in the till.)<BR>3. I've never understood why they picked Tiger Woods, can you get more boring than him?<BR>4.I'm proud to have been a longtime Buick owner because they have always been a little different.

[Reatta Man]

Jeremy,<P>I guess you could sum up the comments this way:<P>Let us know when the product line can match the advertising line--in other words, go from "It's all good" to "It's all GREAT!"<P>Joe

[Guest]

Your question was about advertising the current cars. This forum is for enthusiasts, and judging by their answers they are not your target audience. They hate the current product and I agree with them.<P>The people buying the current Buick's are probably people with a family history of buying Buick's but who are NOT enthusiasts. Junior wants something to commute in, but his Dad was a car nut and he loved Buick's so Junior buys a Buick.<P>How do you advertise to this audience? Draw the Halo of Buick's past around the current products. Show some of Buick's wonderful designs morphing into today's models. Stress the reliability (for Junior) and the heritage (to remind him of his Dad).<P>Hopefully if the advertising stresses what Buick used to be, we can create a ground swell of demand for a Buick that enthusiasts would get excited about.

[Guest]

Buicks are comfortable and reliable. The name while being widely recognized is not at all cool with for the "less than dead market". It's all about perception perception perception. How can Bu-ick compete with names like Acura or Lexus? Or "Eclipse" which sounds cool. Where is the sex appeal? The problem with Oldsmobile is (was) the name. That's 90% of it. The name.<P>As far as Tiger Woods..ok for the country club market. Everyone else realizes that it just a lucrative sponsorship deal.<P>I'm not a NASCAR fan, but that is where I would go for marketing. NASCAR. <P>Ditch Tiger and build cars with turbos, snarley exhaust notes, and comfortable bucket seats.<P>Buick needs to out pontiac pontiac. Gee isn't that what Cadillac is trying to do?<P>I am 43 and a GM stockholder.

[Dave@Moon]

I hope nooone reads this thread and interprets that we are not (as a group) reachable by vehicles being marketed in the current Buick idiom. Most of us are well within the income and lifestyle target that Buick is trying to reach. There have been some very serious errors on the part of the division (oops, I mean "brand") that have simply lost our interest.<P>I want to buy a Buick. But it needs to be <I>my</I> Buick. I do not need the ideal vehicle for 1981's market.<P>This medium (the computer) will also skew your responses away from Buick's current customer base. I hope that was your intent. An <I>average</I> customer of 68 years of age gives a very perilous picture for us of Buick's future. People don't live much beyond that age. Therefore the sample that provides that number must (of necessity) be a seriously skewed bell curve. <P>I'd be willing to bet that the <I>median</I> age purchaser of a 2002 Buick is at least 74, and even older if you eliminate the Rendezvous. (I have a year of Graduate level statistical analysis training.) This means that there will be <I>very few</I> people in the age range generally computer/internet savvy responding to these inquiries. <P>(Sorry Brad and Alan, but for every 40 year old in Buick's customer base there <I>has</I> to be several people in their mid-80's. And many people in their mid-90's for every buyer Tiger's age (26)!!!)<P>We're waiting. Convince us.

[Guest]

Buick is..... a follower long after the fad should be dead! GM gives Buick a SUV after the market is saturated. Why not be a leader. A gap in the automotive market has been the smaller station wagon, which some foreign makers are now filling. Why not a Century or Regal wagon with the SC3800? Or even the Blackhawk? But, the powers that be, would likely price it so high that sales would be down, again. Production would probably be out of the USA; putting more potention buyers out of the market.<P>What type of person buys a Buick? In my area, only the older and loyal Buick owners.<P>Yes, I am aware that Tiger Woods is the Buick "spokesperson". I am "turned off" by celebrities as sales persons. Do they believe in the product or are they just doing it for the bucks?<P>Am I proud to own a Buick? Let's say that I have been proud to have been a Buick owner. I have had a few GS's, a Turbo-Regal, and a few Riv's. I feel good that Buick has one of the best engines on the road today.....the 3800. My LeSabre has 220,000 miles on it......and GM wants to drop this engine? If GM does, my next car will probably be a Ford!<P>

[BuickNut]

Saw your thread and thought I'd reply as to the new design needs of Buick :<BR>-The SUV/Truck bandwagon is almost over with - note the Japanese are now in those arenas, and they are FOLLOWERS, not leaders. So while the Rendevous is a good vehicle from the INSIDE, and isn't ugly like the Aztek - it still needs to be sportier like the BMW's and Mercedes SUV's - without getting too agressive (aka stupid like the Avalanche or Caddy CTS type designs. Note it was too darn late in the ball game, and too underpowered. Good idea with AWD though...BAD IDEA ABOUT MADE IN MEXICO - that is the main reason I won't buy one.<BR>-Advertising research says cars don't sell - read my lips : poorly designed BORING cars don't sell. I would definately add a stationwagon to my stable if it were AWD optioned and was sporty like some of the Saabs (....or is it Volvo ???). If they had even a car the size and sportyness of the older (say '94/'95) Pontiac Grand Prix's but with more rear legroom - would buy one in an instant. The only reason I'd buy an SUV over a car is the room and the SUV's have options of AWD (suffered through too many MI winters getting stuck.....)<BR>-Also can't forget to address all of the above with better gas milage, lower price, and CUT ALL THE ELECTRONIC GIMMICKY STUFF OUT OF THE CARS. I don't want electric steer or electric brakes, leave all the Audio/Vidio stuff out - just have a killer stereo/CD/Cassette player with hookups to aux speaker systems and aux Video stuff. Let the Bose's design the stereo/speakers and don't put in the GM designed stuff that lags behind, isn't expandable and would be replaced anyway<BR>-Make stuff REPAIRIBLE......seems the car companies are building everything in modules and full assemblies such that if a $25.00 sensor fails, you need to replace the entire $500.00 assembly part and have $500.00 in labor to boot !<BR>-Buick (and everybody else) needs to keep one thing in mind as to their design and mechanicals......KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid. Todays cars are WAYYYYY TOO COMPLICATED. They seem to have foregotten (or was this planned ???) that a NEW car eventually becomes a USED car that SOMEBODY needs to afford to repair without taking out a second mortgage or needing to be a rocket scientest (oh, that was me at one time, and I still couldn't work on 'em.....) to keep 'em on the road !!!!!! <BR>-Hate to say it but the Europeans really have the market cornered as to sporty styling without getting stupid about it. Chrysler is also in there with smart, sporty styling...really like the 300 M, also Lincoln LS and Jag's version of it..<BR>-Small cars don't sell ? I see a lot of Ford Cougars on the road (though I guess not enough to keep the cars from being cancelled), see alot of Grand Am GT's (can't swing a dead cat without hitting one around here.....)though they are really sharp<BR>-If GM would do it right with their designs, they COULD sell cars.....they really don't need to put all their eggs in the SUV/Truck basket like they are. Just wait until the tide suddenly changes "overnite"....can GM afford to wait for a full 4 year design cycle to catch up when that happens ?<BR>-They need a better mixture of older designers and younger designers. Either its too stodgy (...under Buick in the Websters.....), or too damn cutting edge like the CTS. Or the Bean counters take a vehicle that WAS goodlooking in its prototype stage (the Aztek was actually a sharp SUV before they changed its stance, the grill, the rear end, and gave it rollerskate diameter wheels....) and ruin it.<P>-VERY wordy I know......sorry

[Guest]

I'm in my early 30s and have been into Buicks most of my driving life.

[Guest]

OOPS had a boo-boo.<P>Anyway if Buick puts there name and logo on a car IT NEEDS TO Have A BUICK ENGINE.<P>Recast a "BUICK V8" that's what the true enthusiast want!!!!

[Guest]

Jeremy,<BR>I will answer your questions and then post my comments. Number 1. Buick is "dying". 2. The kind of person that buys a Buick today is dying or just a pure loyalist to the make. 3. I know Buick sponsors Mr Woods, and I have no real feeling about this, just that the money spent here would have done better in other arenas. 4. I feel proud to own my Buicks because each one is unique. I have a 1965 Riviera GS. As in another post, there isn't one time that I don't get a "thumb-up" or stares from others, old people or young ones, when I take this out for a drive. I also own a 1970 GS Stage1, just about the quickest 4 passenger car made. Enough said there. I also own a 1987 Grand National, probably the second quickest 4 passenger car made. Definitely enough said. Another vehicle is my 1999 Riviera Silver Arrow, car number 20. It is unique, stylish, rare, and powerful. I have owned several Electras, Park Avenues, and Lesabres too. Buick is dying. I just bought a new SUV last Monday, and guess what? I bought a Bravada, built in Dayton, OH. The Rendezvous? What an underpowered, boring vehicle. Why not the SC 3800? Who made that decision? Buick needs to build something that people, younger people, can get excited over or point at. I am middle aged and see myself buying several more cars in my lifetime, but I don't see them being Buicks, unless I buy one from the 60's or 70's., or even the 50's or 80's. Marketing is not my profession, but I do have some limited marketing experience in my current position. Buick is not hitting the mark! When was the last time Buick made a 2 door? The Riviera. When before that?? I know of several people that bought Pontiac because of this. I know we all typically have families, and 4 doors work better, but we mostly all have room in our garage for a second or third car that doesn't necessarily have to have 4 doors. With Buick's 100th anniversary quickly approaching, I can only hope a wake-up call goes through the heads of the powers in charge. Otherwise, I can't see GM keeping Buick around in the current car market with what they offer now. This is really sad, but I feel it is true. Just my 2 cents worth. Joe S. Irwin,PA.

[Guest]

That's it, Steve B! <BR> Have "TV Tommy" Ivo in his candy striped blazer as spokesperson for Buick. He may be too young for their target group, though. Or maybe Buddy Ingersol? Could you see the shock waves?<BR> Steve D.

[Guest rivi425]

You've got your job cut out for you my boy.<BR>It would be a lot more fair if Buick had given you something worthwhile to advertise than the pedestrian offerings they have right now.<P>A few months ago when I finally got to see the new T-Bird in the flesh, I sent a note off to Buick asking where they were. I got no reply. Didn't expect any frankly. Buick has been so out of touch with the people who have supported them over the years they have no idea who we are any more. <P>With the exception of the Rendevous I can't tell one model from the other other than by size. <P>I own a '64 Riviera with a SuperWildcat 465, anyone at Buick remember what that a SuperWildcat was? Or why they would name it that? <P>The Riviera was always a unique car, sometimes you loved the design, sometimes you hated it, but you were never EVER indifferent toward it. <P>How about this for a slogan;<BR>Buick, don't give it a second look.<BR>Buick, the last car you'll ever own, (expecially if you're in our target market)<P>Chris Knowles<BR>Webmaster Riviera Owners Association

[Guest]

i think buicks are better today they they were in the past!!!!<P>ha,ha,ha,ha......<P>it's funny to see it print!<P>(only a dream)

[Guest]

I am a Riviera fan, and a former Buick Salesman (1984-85). Since the 85 Convertible, and the supercharged Riv's of the early 90's, Buick has done NOTHING EXCITING!!!!<BR>Stop catering only to the 65 and over crowd and do what Buick did best in the 60's and 70's---BUILD SOME EXCITEMENT!!!!<BR>LETS GET A RETRO OUT THERE, be it a Riviera Boat-tail, a Riviera GS, a Wildcat or Super Wildcat, Hell I wouldn't mind a 57 Special compared to what you are making now. Camaro is gone, Olds 442 is gone, Pontiac GTO is gone, the market is wide open to you, Lets get Harley Earl and Bill Mitchell stopped from spinning in the grave, and get something out there that deserves the Buick Tri-Shield, some holes in its side, and the GM Mark of Excellence!!!!!

[NTX5467]

Jeremy:<P>My congratulations you venturing off into this group in search of your answers. I hope you can put some meaning to many of these comments and how they relate to current times.<P>Many younger marketing people have lost sight of -- or even comprehend --the original divisional model progression which Billy Durant set up as General Motors. Chevy at the bottom and Cadillac at the top, making it Chevy - Pontiac - Olds - Buick - Cadillac, in that order. The more expensive cars, naturally, will have the higher age and income demographics than the less expensive cars. Each car line had it's target market (relating to "position in live" and resulting income--or where you wanted to be, as in "aspirational"). Therefore, Buick and Cadillac never really were "20-something" cars.<P>When Buick ousted Plymouth for #3 in sales in the 1950s, it was with the base line Special and GMAC financing. Many aspiring professional people bought Buicks because of what the perception of Buick owners were in those earlier times -- successful, stable, reliable, and had style. Whether it was a Special or Roadmaster, it was still a BUICK. Many people take the "Doctor's Car" or "Banker's car" titles with disdain, but fail to understand the earlier social situations of those earlier times when doctors still made housecalls and the banker wanted something classy with good resale value. Boring people of their time? Probably so. Plus usually over 40 years old too.<P>In those earlier years, each division was its own business unit--something the GM Accountants took away in the 1970s and later. That meant each division had their own engine families and shared very little with other divisions (other than the Chevy inline 6-cylinder in many cases). If it said BUICK on the hood, you could bet the engine and transmission (in the earlier years) was made by BUICK as was most everything else in a plant operated by BUICK, advertised by BUICK people and sold by, typically, BUICK-specific dealers. Do you see the progression here?<P>When the advertising said "Wouldn't you really have a BUICK?" you got a real, complete BUICK. Plus a higher status level too.<P>In their desire to maintain paying quarterly dividends, the accountants and management (sometimes of the same orientation, especially in later years) sought to keep paying dividends to keep the stock prices high--a valid issue. They also sought to downsize the organization due to what might be called their lack of management skills in a diverse environment. Remember FrigidAire, GMC heavy trucks, etc.? If any product in the USA was produced, there was a very high chance it would be touched by some divisino of GM from the time it left the farm until the consumer consumed it. Not any more!<P>It's always much easier to show profits by cutting costs and content than to produce great products that sell well and are desireable. Lutz know both sides of that coin and was a key player in what Chrysler did in the 1970s. You can read his book "GUTS" to see how he'll probably reshape GM--if he can in only 3 yrs.<P>Much of what we see in GM today is the result of what happened in the 1980s. Olds money went to Cadillac to help it then and it happened again. First, the Quad8 300 horsepower motor was killed as NorthStar emerged a few years later. Now, Olds is dead so Cadillac can again breathe--but that scenario has been orchestrated for many years too.<P>GM has no problems spending massive amounts of development money where they can get a return on it, as in their light truck products, and did not spend anything where there was no return (i.e., Olds, Camaro/Firebird). Let's see, the trucks sell well, but the cars dont? Where's that message!??<P>Buick needs a full line of models as it had in the 1960s, from the entry level to the top. GM has these models yet has, for some reason, chose not to let Buick have for some reason. Yet, in spite of these things, the demographics of the Buick owner are basically the same as in the earlier times.<P>It would be nice to have a compact entry as the Special used to be to snag young people intially, for sure. The Regal's a good product that has been underpromoted. The LeSabre is still the great product it's been of late. The Park Avenue has great engineering and features, but will soon have a replacement. Rendezvous? A necessity, but needs the 3800 V-6, especially with all of those extra seats and what they'll haul.<P>Products really aren't that bad now, just need some tweaking and a smaller performance model (3800 supercharged Alero-type car?).<P>Forget the Bengal, LONG LIVE BLACKHAWK!<P>Enjoy!<BR>NTX5467

[Guest]

BUICK IS - a great muscle car, a cool restoration project, a powerful cruiser that can outrun pretty much anything. Trouble is, I'm referring to those giants from the '60s such as the Riviera and the Wildcat. They haven't built anything really exciting since the Riv, and scrapping that particular line was a huge mistake.<BR>WHO BUYS A BUICK - people who really want a Cadillac, but can't afford one. Sad but true. Nowadays they appeal to the same people. We plan to purchase a Rendezvous in the near future - that model is a step in the right direction, but Buick really needs to regain their following in the younger market. Some of these cars look as if they were meant for people who deliberately go out and buy something their 16-year-old won't want to borrow.<BR>TIGER WOODS - Tiger who? What does he play? Golf? I thought Volkswagen built that one. <BR>Finally, how do we feel about owning Buicks - we have owned and enjoyed Buicks for over 30 years and see no reason to stop now. We have a '59 and a '60 Electra, along with a '63 Wildcat, and we have recently owned a '63 Riviera. There's nothing like 'em. They're cars with teeth - not dentures.<P>Thanks for the opportunity to share our opinions. A lot of loyal Buick owners seem to be thinking along these same lines, so hopefully the company will pay attention.

[The Old Guy]

1 This subject has been covered enough.<P>2 The people buying Buicks are the same ones that have been loyal for years, but they are dying off, and noone is replacing them. <P>3 Tiger and all the touring pros do not drive Buicks. If you check the parking area at the Buick open in Grand Blanc Mich you will find that the only Buicks there belong to Buick. Some driven by executives and some that are free loaners to the pros. <P>4 I have lived in Buicktown all my life and although I did not work for Buick, I have been around the Automobile industry since 1951.Buick was always a part of my life and it pains me to see what it has become. My wife has a park ave. and I drive a 57 Special for my everyday car. I am afraid that unless Mr Lutz can pull a rabbit out of a hat ,it just a matter of time before Buick goes the way of Oldsmobile.

[Guest Skyking]

I stated in a previous post a while back what the real problem is. We are all, including myself living in a fantasy world. We think for some reason that Buick will start building cars that we enjoyed in the past. Forget it, it's not going to happen. The world is changing rapidly, while we are talking. Look around. Look what the common person is driving.....These cars are all the same, wheather domestic or import..THE SAME....These are the cars that people want. We are a small group with big ideas...The only time I am really content with what I'm driving is when I get behind the wheel of my 66 Skylark or 62 Invicta...I will never get that feeling driving anything new....It will NEVER happen for me........