California to start pilot program for mileage-based tax for motorists

[Dave Wells]

As per the new system, California Road Charge will record the number of miles driven annually by motorists and tax them accordingly. The exact rate for the same though is yet to be fixed. However, a cost simulator lists three options: $0.02, $0.03 and $0.04 per mile.

 

https://www.team-bhp.com/news/california-start-mileage-based-tax-pilot-program

[Brass is Best]

This is not a good thing.

[Matt Harwood]

[60FlatTop]

From the article California does not want to give up $200,000,000 to save the planet. Seems like a bargain to me.

[TTR]

Sounds like a great idea to me. Makes the Evil Vehicle car drivers/owners share the pain and hopefully reduces traffic congestion, but I doubt the latter.

 

P.S. Regardless of this program or not, I will continue driving my vintage cars as much as ever, i.e. a few thousand miles per year.

 

I also wish the State would crack down on all illegal road use activities harder with more enforcement and bigger fines. 

 

 

Edited June 4 by TTR (see edit history)

[joe_padavano]

13 hours ago, Brass is Best said:

This is not a good thing.

Why? Because you'd rather continue to subsidize road costs for EVs that don't pay gas taxes. I think this is a great thing.

[Matt Harwood]

In many states EVs do pay gas taxes in the form of increased fees at license renewal time. For instance, in Ohio I pay an extra $250/year for the plates on our electric car, which is designed to replace the gas tax I'm not paying. And at only 900 miles a month and gas at $3.50/gallon, I'm actually subsidizing the gas cars. But whatever, that's simply the cost of living in a civilized society with all the perks. I know I'm an anomaly, but I'm OK with paying my fair share and maybe even a little more if it helps the greater good.

[joe_padavano]

12 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

In many states EVs do pay gas taxes in the form of increased fees at license renewal time. For instance, in Ohio I pay an extra $250/year for the plates on our electric car, which is designed to replace the gas tax I'm not paying. And at only 900 miles a month and gas at $3.50/gallon, I'm actually subsidizing the gas cars. But whatever, that's simply the cost of living in a civilized society with all the perks. I know I'm an anomaly, but I'm OK with paying my fair share and maybe even a little more if it helps the greater good.

I'd prefer a mileage and weight-based tax vs a gas tax. My older cars don't rack up a lot of miles, and 6,000+ lb SUVs that are used for daily drivers do a lot more damage to roads.

[rocketraider]

Question begs will this tax replace the fuel tax or be in addition to it. 

 

If the latter case that's an awfully bad idea. Even though EVs would finally be assessed their share of road maintenance, it would be a double tax on everything else. In a state with increased registration fees for EVs as Matt points out, then everyone would be double taxed.

 

It's doubtful any government entity will go for eliminating any tax, much less one that rakes in as much money as the fuel tax does.

 

Plus, living a half mile from the VA/NC state line and driving as much in NC as I do in VA, that could get hairy.

 

I can only imagine the recordkeeping I'd get into should both states decide to take this route. Logic would say you pay it to the state the vehicle is registered in, but logic doesn't always apply when guvmink agencies are involved and both are angling for all the revenue they can get.

[joe_padavano]

18 minutes ago, rocketraider said:

Question begs will this tax replace the fuel tax or be in addition to it.

The Calif proposal specifically replaces the state gas tax. Of course the state has no control over federal taxes.

[Lee H]

46 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

I'm OK with paying my fair share and maybe even a little more if it helps the greater good

How much do you think that should be? From each according to his ability, or something like that?

[Matt Harwood]

2 minutes ago, Lee H said:

How much do you think that should be? From each according to his ability, or something like that?

At the moment it's exactly $250/year. And with Ohio's gas tax being $0.385 and since we only drive our electric car 900 miles a month, by the math I'm paying more in taxes than I would have if I were using a gasoline car to travel that same distance. So I'm paying my share plus a little more. I'm OK with that, as I said. Should I be outraged instead?

 

So no, not just some arbitrary number. $250/year works out to about 16,000 miles of driving in a 25 MPG gasoline-powered car in terms of tax revenues. That seems about right.

 

If the alternative is tracking my driving, then I'm perfectly OK with all that.

[TerryB]

What about vehicles that use or will be built to run on hydrogen?  Will there be an alternative tax for them?  Twenty four states currently have taxes on EVs to make up lost gas tax revenue. The idea that EVs pay nothing is circulated by the anti EV crowd but obviously not true if you actually look for the information.  Pennsylvania has been researching alternatives to the gas tax including a mileage based tax.  As part of our annual automobile inspection procedure the odometer mileage is recorded by the inspection station and has been for many years so taxing based on usage would be simple to implement. At this time there is no separate EV tax but that will change soon I believe. Even with one of the highest state gasoline taxes in the country, the income it generates is not enough to meet expenses so something will have to change.

[Su8overdrive]

Glorioski.  TTR, Joe_Padavano, Matt Harwood provide cogent perspective.  Is such allowed on this forum?  Thank you, gentlemen.  And TTR makes a terrific point about the need to crack down on "side shows," as the idiocy i believe he's decrying are called.   

[joe_padavano]

On 6/4/2024 at 2:37 PM, TerryB said:

What about vehicles that use or will be built to run on hydrogen?  Will there be an alternative tax for them?  Twenty four states currently have taxes on EVs to make up lost gas tax revenue. The idea that EVs pay nothing is circulated by the anti EV crowd but obviously not true if you actually look for the information.  Pennsylvania has been researching alternatives to the gas tax including a mileage based tax.  As part of our annual automobile inspection procedure the odometer mileage is recorded by the inspection station and has been for many years so taxing based on usage would be simple to implement. At this time there is no separate EV tax but that will change soon I believe. Even with one of the highest state gasoline taxes in the country, the income it generates is not enough to meet expenses so something will have to change.

You are correct. Many of us who do not own EVs are not aware of the extra tax, so my apologies about that mis-information. And alternative fuels are yet another reason to go to a weight/mileage based tax for road funds. The roads don't care how the vehicle is powered, only that it creates wear and tear on the road, and that is purely a function of weight and mileage.

[Ronnie]

On 6/4/2024 at 9:12 AM, joe_padavano said:

I'd prefer a mileage and weight-based tax vs a gas tax. My older cars don't rack up a lot of miles, and 6,000+ lb SUVs that are used for daily drivers do a lot more damage to roads.

Getting rid of a gas tax seems like a good thing but in reality it would shift more of the tax burden to local residents.

 

For example, I live in TN near I-40 and I-75, both major Interstates that crisscross the country. I would estimate that at least half of the vehicles, cars and big trucks,  traveling those Interstates are from other states. Maybe more. All of those vehicles traveling through TN have to stop in our state and fill up their tank which contributes to our tax base and helps pay for maintaining our roads they are driving on.

 

If the gas tax in TN was eliminated, the lost tax revenue would have to be made up by local residents in the form of higher taxes each time they registered their vehicles in TN.  I don't think people traveling through TN from other states should get off Scott free and contribute little to nothing to the tax base that maintains the roads they drive on. I think shifting the tax burden for maintaining roads to local residents in the form of a tax that is paid at the courthouse is a bad idea.

[joe_padavano]

2 hours ago, Ronnie said:

Getting rid of a gas tax seems like a good thing but in reality it would shift more of the tax burden to local residents.

 

For example, I live in TN near I-40 and I-75, both major Interstates that crisscross the country. I would estimate that at least half of the vehicles, cars and big trucks,  traveling those Interstates are from other states. Maybe more. All of those vehicles traveling through TN have to stop in our state and fill up their tank which contributes to our tax base and helps pay for maintaining our roads they are driving on.

 

If the gas tax in TN was eliminated, the lost tax revenue would have to be made up by local residents in the form of higher taxes each time they registered their vehicles in TN.  I don't think people traveling through TN from other states should get off Scott free and contribute little to nothing to the tax base that maintains the roads they drive on. I think shifting the tax burden for maintaining roads to local residents in the form of a tax that is paid at the courthouse is a bad idea.

Federal highway funds for the interstate system come from federal taxes. The CA initiative covers state taxes that fund state-owned roads. Yeah, there are still state highways that see out-of-state users, but the reality is that most wear on state roads comes from local users.