Why it's going to be some time before I switch to an E.V. { Going to keep my Vintage car }

[arcticbuicks]

the western Canada province of British Coumbia ........last year was 18% Ev sales........nearly 1 in 5 cars are EV.......that quite amazing.....i flew out to BC 6 times this summer and used Uber which were all teslas.......I asked all of them how they like them,every one said great .....at every intersection there are 4-5 teslas and others.

there is a lot of negative comments on EV battery cost......tesla is $5-$10 K .......cheaper than a overdrive transmission rebuilt on many gas cars or engine repair for something like a blown timing belt........plus tesla waranty is 8 years and 150K miles.......of course everybody dwells on the Ford battery cost......Ford GM etc are really small fry in the EV biz and may fail......not much is manufactured in america and cannot compete with crazy unions and labour cost etc.......Ford sales 48,000 EV.......Tesla sales 1.31 million....and BYD only a few thousand less than Tesla and about to zoom by.........and so many other non american companies forging ahead.......american auto makers are peanuts in the market world wide ........VW audi really motoring ahead and building $20 billion dollar battery factory in Canada......able to make one million batteries.......

I love my gas and diesel vehicles but realize it will not be sustainable for long........My dodge dually loaded diesel new CDN in 2018 was $101 k plus 13% tax......thats $114,000. plus extra waranty and accessories....... i am burning $50 a day in diesel running around...plus DEF fluid.....two insurance policies to cover vehicle value......last winter the DEF tank froze and was $7000 repair ..I just bought a new one 2023 $124k.......and escalade for $126 K that is a pig on gas......but i just cant give up my lifestyle that was always affordable ........EVs are looking better all the time now

Edited December 1, 2023 by arcticbuicks (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

B.C. has about 3.7 million vehicles. 109,000 are E.V.'s as of Dec 31 , 2022 { latest number available } So more like 1 in 25 , not one in 5.

Edited December 1, 2023 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[arcticbuicks]

i said new sales last year 18% ....that equals nearly 1 in 5 are EV

[1912Staver]

Sorry I misread your post. I live here , yes there are quite a few E.V.'s. I even know a few people that own them. Most like them, and the day to day reduced expense vs a gas machine. But most also complain about the up front cost.

[arcticbuicks]

whats the upfront cost that is so crazy......a new gas half ton is around $55 k........some are $70K

[auburnseeker]

All the electric scooters are doing one thing for sure.  Making a generation of lazy kids.  Many used to ride pedal bikes,  much easier on the environment than millions of battery packs that last a couple of years.  Are they really reducing the oil consumption or are they just estimating again how much is saved based on how much each electric scooter would burn if it was a gas model,  which wouldn't exist in many areas as kids under 16 can't legally drive gas powered scooters but can own and drive electric ones.

 

I know my son has one.  Believe me long fight to try to keep him from having one, and try to get him to pedal a bike.  It's less than three years old and we just put a hew set of batteries in it,  this after they were already replaced once.   None of this is figured into the picture.  So many other things that we could do to improve the environment that would make a real difference but must be the forces at work find this one to be the greatest cash cow.

  There is only one thing really running the green initiative.  It's green but it has nothing to do with the environment. 

  How many 20 year old Tesla's will be on the road.  I know my Nissan just turned 20 years old and my Superduty is right behind it.   Lots of ICE vehicles under 10G and even under 5000 on the market that have 50-100KMI left in them with minimal maintenance or repair.  Can that be said for used ev's? 

[auburnseeker]

2 minutes ago, arcticbuicks said:

whats the upfront cost that is so crazy......a new gas half ton is around $55 k........some are $70K

Ford's EV F150 was either almost or just over 100G.

[arcticbuicks]

yes pretty much any diesel pick up truck is over a $100 now too

[arcticbuicks]

but you are using the extreme example of a Ford.....making very few and crazy high costs......they just cant compete.......and have been failing in cars too......how many car models did they drop in the last 10 years ? ....nearly all......as they cannot compete with other auto makers.......Dodge also dropped nearly all car models also in last 10 years

[auburnseeker]

It's the only electric half ton Ford they make I believe.  That's why I threw it out there.

[mrspeedyt]

it's nuts what all these new cars cost.

 

I'll stick with the old used shit that I can buy for 300 bucks. Yes... I did buy my youngest daughter's Prius... got it for $10,000 but I've already put almost 110,000 mi on it since then. so now it's over 200,000 total miles.

(but she does like her Tesla, especially for one day driving in the Phoenix metro area...)

Edited December 1, 2023 by mrspeedyt
My daughter still has her 66 mustang however. she's driven it a couple of times when her tesla was in the shop under going repair. (see edit history)

[ply33]

37 minutes ago, mrspeedyt said:

My daughter still has her 66 mustang however. she's driven it a couple of times when her tesla was in the shop under going repair.

I got a dint in the middle of the tail gate of my modern daily driver (pick up truck backed into me in a parking lot). It took about a week to fix and while it was in the shop I used my '33 Plymouth as a daily driver.

 

I wonder how many of us fall back on the collector car(s) for daily use instead of arranging a rental when the daily driver is laid up. . .

[arcticbuicks]

unless it is winter......or areas with winter.....maybe quite a few ?

[arcticbuicks]

Another issue i wonder about with EVs.....and if the movement really  picks up steam.......the general public could make Gas cars enemy number one  [not likely for a few years ].......where anyone would be afraid or at risk to dare go out with a gas guzzler.........i think it was early 1970s when the fur trade really slowed and backlash from people ......people and even some famous people in public wearing real furs.....getting doused in red paint .

 

it may come to a point where most people are switching to EVs and with no new cars available in gas in the near future.....they may acquire an attitude that anybody else driving a gas car is bad or should be punished .....legally or not

[CarNucopia]

8 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

So you're suggesting that if one solution doesn't fix ALL the problems, we shouldn't even try?

 

 

I'm not sure what he is suggesting, but on the topic of solutions for problems, lets look back on history a bit. Pretty much all the major innovations in automobiles came either from competition in the free market or on the racetrack. Things like the catalytic converter, air bags, safety glass, disk brakes, aerodynamics and fuel injection were thanks to the industry striving to find a better way. By mandating EVs, governments are eliminating the incentive for innovation among all the other means of propulsion.  Ever wonder why the USSR never produced a cutting-edge, desirable car? Or why they never competed on the world stage of auto racing? Because there was never a market incentive to do better.

 

As Henry Ford said "If I asked my customer's what they wanted, they would have said a faster horse." And if customer's can't foresee what is possible in the future, there's no way the political class can. (I doubt that most of them even sit in the front seat of a car.)

 

I have no problem with EVs and I'm glad some people are enthusiastic about them and want to push the technologic forward. That said, they should be one of many parallel paths pursued in the quest to burn less fossil fuels.

 

[Angelfish]

The big story in my neck of the woods this week is Biden's back door deal to tear down the hydroelectric plants on the Columbia and Snake Rivers.  That is to say he is pushing to Destroy two major power generating plants in the northwest. 

 

Locally, the envirowackjobs are suing to block construction of a natural gas power plant. 

 

New York has banned natural gas appliances in future construction (don't have the date handy, but it's there), expecting electricity to take up the slack.

 

California can't keep the lights on and has asked people not to charge their EV's.

 

Ask Texas how their wind farms are working out, and they don't even have winter.

 

It's not that we don't have the infrastructure to support these cars, we are not allowed to have it.

 

A Chinese owned lithium mine isn't exactly a refreshing vacation site either.

[arcticbuicks]

on the world stage to transition to EVs......the US is not in very good shape......and maybe why other countries excel and will likely lead

[ply33]

26 minutes ago, CarNucopia said:

I'm not sure what he is suggesting, but on the topic of solutions for problems, lets look back on history a bit. Pretty much all the major innovations in automobiles came either from competition in the free market or on the racetrack. Things like the catalytic converter, air bags, safety glass, disk brakes, aerodynamics and fuel injection were thanks to the industry striving to find a better way. By mandating EVs, governments are eliminating the incentive for innovation among all the other means of propulsion.  Ever wonder why the USSR never produced a cutting-edge, desirable car? Or why they never competed on the world stage of auto racing? Because there was never a market incentive to do better.

 

As Henry Ford said "If I asked my customer's what they wanted, they would have said a faster horse." And if customer's can't foresee what is possible in the future, there's no way the political class can. (I doubt that most of them even sit in the front seat of a car.)

 

I have no problem with EVs and I'm glad some people are enthusiastic about them and want to push the technologic forward. That said, they should be one of many parallel paths pursued in the quest to burn less fossil fuels.

 

Hmmm. Maybe I lived in a different universe when catalytic converters and air bags were introduced. I distinctly recall governmental standards and restrictions on vehicle emissions leading to catalytic converters (with the knock on phase out of lead as an octane booster as industry was unable to make a catalytic converter that would not be fouled by leaded fuel). And air bags were also required by governmental regulations.

 

I'll give you aerodynamics and fuel injection but strongly suspect that was largely driven by government set fuel economy regulations.

[1935Packard]

4 hours ago, auburnseeker said:

  How many 20 year old Tesla's will be on the road.  I know my Nissan just turned 20 years old and my Superduty is right behind it.   Lots of ICE vehicles under 10G and even under 5000 on the market that have 50-100KMI left in them with minimal maintenance or repair.  Can that be said for used ev's? 

 

This is an interesting video, of a 2015 Tesla Model S with 425,000 miles.  The battery was replaced after 250,000 miles (then under warranty), and the 2nd battery has 175,000 miles so far.  Video talks about the service history. 

 

 

[1935Packard]

Also, here's a Tesla with over 1,000,000 miles.  Looks like they replaced the battery twice, so it's now on the third battery.

https://insideevs.com/news/592845/tesla-model-s-passes-1-million-miles/

[1935Packard]

13 hours ago, TAKerry said:

I keep telling myself to tap out of this convo, but my last bit of input. EV's are a great idea. I wouldnt mind owning one myself. However the REAL reason for the hugenormous push for them currently has nothing to do with saving anything!!! Planet, people, gas or otherwise. 

 

One last bit of input from me, too.  I happen to live in an area where people are pretty passionate environmentalists.  And people around me sure as heck *think* they are pushing EVs to save things -- the planet, specifically.  You can say you disagree it will have that effect, of course.  But to question the genuine concern here is just to deny a reality that this is super important to a lot of real American people.   And with that, have a good night. 

 

 

Edited December 1, 2023 by 1935Packard (see edit history)

[modela28]

6 hours ago, arcticbuicks said:

Another issue i wonder about with EVs.....and if the movement really  picks up steam.......the general public could make Gas cars enemy number one  [not likely for a few years ].......where anyone would be afraid or at risk to dare go out with a gas guzzler.........i think it was early 1970s when the fur trade really slowed and backlash from people ......people and even some famous people in public wearing real furs.....getting doused in red paint .

 

it may come to a point where most people are switching to EVs and with no new cars available in gas in the near future.....they may acquire an attitude that anybody else driving a gas car is bad or should be punished .....legally or not

I think that it is very likely with the government leading the way on making anyone who wants to use a gasoline powered car, boat, lawnmower, etc. the "enemy".  Just look at cancel culture today and if you choose the "wrong" opinion about certain things you can be absolutely destroyed by the government (Dept. of Justice) and / or social media.  Just ask the parents who are trying to protect their children from our over reaching public education system.  It use to be called "freedom" to make our own choices.  Now we are enemies of the government if we want to exercise our freedoms.

[CarNucopia]

8 hours ago, ply33 said:

Hmmm. Maybe I lived in a different universe when catalytic converters and air bags were introduced. I distinctly recall governmental standards and restrictions on vehicle emissions leading to catalytic converters (with the knock on phase out of lead as an octane booster as industry was unable to make a catalytic converter that would not be fouled by leaded fuel). And air bags were also required by governmental regulations.

 

I'll give you aerodynamics and fuel injection but strongly suspect that was largely driven by government set fuel economy regulations.

Great examples of what I'm talking about. GM started working on catalytic converters in the late '60s. That was before the Clean Air Act was passed in 1970. And the act didn't mandate catalytic converters. In fact, I don't think it even mentions them. With regards to airbags, you could get them as an option on a 1974 Oldsmobile, more the a decade before the law required them.

Edited December 1, 2023 by CarNucopia (see edit history)

[CarNucopia]

1973:

[Peter Gariepy]

NO POLITICS

 

READ THE FORUM RULES

[auburnseeker]

Can we tell the Politicians to stay out of our pockets then?

[Peter Gariepy]

13 minutes ago, auburnseeker said:

Can we tell the Politicians to stay out of our pockets then?

Sure

 

its called voting

 

 

[auburnseeker]

Doesn't seem to be working.  Atleast not as intended.  I live in NY so I can say that.  Everything I voted against has passed through. We are on the for front of every initiative to go green.  Seems often without consent from the voters and even from many in the legislature directly against supreme court rulings.  I will refer you to the 2A the supreme court overturned now a little over a year ago,  that the governor then went back and immediately wrote a pile of new legislation that is in direct opposition to that ruling with no time for public review.    In such haste I might add that they still haven't even figured out how to enforce many of the laws and had to make a bunch of exceptions and ammendments after passing the law to clarify the muddy lines.

 

Don't ban me for this, remove it if necessary.   Just posting what is going on.  Same thing will happen to our cars if we aren't cautious.

[Peter Gariepy]

15 minutes ago, auburnseeker said:

Doesn't seem to be working.  Atleast not as intended.  I live in NY so I can say that.  Everything I voted against has passed through. We are on the for front of every initiative to go green.  Seems often without consent from the voters and even from many in the legislature directly against supreme court rulings.  I will refer you to the 2A the supreme court overturned now a little over a year ago,  that the governor then went back and immediately wrote a pile of new legislation that is in direct opposition to that ruling with no time for public review.    In such haste I might add that they still haven't even figured out how to enforce many of the laws and had to make a bunch of exceptions and ammendments after passing the law to clarify the muddy lines.

 

Don't ban me for this, remove it if necessary.   Just posting what is going on.  Same thing will happen to our cars if we aren't cautious.

Pesky democracy, voting, and that darn constitution sure gets in the way, don’t it?

[Peter Gariepy]

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[Peter Gariepy]