conversion sealed beams to H4

[cquisuila]

here the specific electric diagram FOR RIVIERA 1966 with 2 relays to converse sealed beams to H4

 

 

 

Edited October 24, 2023 by cquisuila (see edit history)

[NTX5467]

When I put Cibie Euro-code headlights in my '77 Camaro, it was just a normal headlight change, as if I was replacing the OEM headlights with a aftermarket sealed beam.  NO wiring differences, just plug 'n play.

 

The Euro-code lights have a better beam pattern for better "down the road" light than normal sealed beams have.  Safer night driving without having to be on "high beams" all of the time.  I'm using "Euro-code" and "H4" to mean the same thing.

 

Some people like to run their headlights off of a relay which uses direct battery voltage rather than not.  In some cases, this will get the lights to full voltage rather than the lesser voltage through the headlight switch.  There are conversion kits for that, which you are referencing.

 

NTX5467

Edited October 24, 2023 by NTX5467 (see edit history)

[rodneybeauchamp]

I fitted Cibie lamps (4) to my 1963 Riviera and also used two relays, one for low beam and one for high beam similar to the circuit shown. All lamps used QH globes and gave a vast improvement over the standard sealed beam.

 

These had the rounded convex lens rather than the flat lenses that Hella and other use. Gives a much nicer appearance that looks OEM at a glance. If driving at night well worth the upgrade but the relays are a must do!

 

If yours have flat lenses, no problem as you can swap them out when you find some Cibies 🤞

 

Go for it Cquisuila 😀😀😀😀😀👍👍👍👍

 

Just my two bobs worth from down under

Rodney 😀😀😀😀😀

 

 

[Jim Cannon]

With recent advances in LED headlight technology, I'd look at replacing the original sealed beams with LEDs. They have very low current draw, so relays and such are not needed.

[60FlatTop]

21 hours ago, NTX5467 said:

this will get the lights to full voltage rather than the lesser voltage through the headlight switch. 

I like the idea of running most switched loads through a relay to reduce the load through switches. some switches are getting hard to replace and used ones would usually be the same age as your car.

 

Sometimes I have seen significant corrosion in bulkhead connectors that goes unnoticed. I have also serviced a few '50s and '60s GM cars that had a warm to hot key after driving.

 

Over the years I have done quite a bit of wiring on Rolls-Royce and Bentley cars. Most of the switches on them have a condenser to arrest the arc upon switching and extend the life of the contacts. I like that idea as well.

 

About 15 years ago I had a Jaguar XJS with some under hood wiring corruption. I was just starting to redo the whole car from the cowl forward with GM relays and switches, but someone came along and bought it.

[NTX5467]

The effectiveness of the light is due to the reflector, not the brightness (or color of brightness) of the bulb.  Brightness by itself is not a good judge of lamp performance, from what I have seen.  Just look at the difference in the E-code Cibies and US-code lights as to "down the road" light AND where that light is placed.  Same wattage bulbs.

 

I like LEDs for their efficiency, BUT . . . I find it curious that with their lower current draw, the headlight bulbs also need a miniature cooling fan on their backside.  Just where the LED emitters are placed with respect to the reflector in a headlight can determine how effective the lamp unit becomes.  This is also more true of tail lights, from one YouTube video I saw on such, with a Nissan Z-car where the lamp housing was the reflector (but was not painted silver).

 

When I did the Cibie upgrade on my Camaro, I just swapped the headlights, pure plug 'n play.

 

One significant issue is "why" the need for bright headlights?  Is it due to declining vision performance in low-light conditions, possibly?  Or the age of the headlights themselves?  Or the need to upgrade from the older lamps to get a better beam pattern?  All of the above?

 

While you might like the way things look BEHIND the lights, considering how much safer YOU might be, I noticed that in "high-contrast light situations", bright headlights (especially those not aimed perfectly) can cause real issues with the on-coming drivers being able to see.  One never knows if their headlights are "blinding" the on-coming driver UNLESS you have been one of the on-coming drivers in such a situation.  I became of that situation about 10 years ago and luckily found some supplements to be able to drive at night again.  The height of the vehicle approaching from the rear, at least in TX, can be flaky as in my 2005 Impala, the headlight height on a common new F250 SuperDuty pickup is at the same height as the inside rear view mirror.  Guess where those bright lights go after reflecting in the mirror?  Which can result in a quick change to "Nite" on the mirror!  Similar HD 3/4 ton GM and Ram trucks are similar, but do not seem to cause as many issues as the  SuperDuty pickups do.  And THAT is if they are at stock ride height.

 

When I put the Cibies in the Camaro, I discovered that I could raise those lights' adjustment a good bit from the factory sealed beams.  As they had a much sharper upper beam cutoff pattern.  I made sure that the beam pattern would not hit the car in front of me's outside rear view mirror, and was just a bit aimed down from pure horizontal.  This was not hard to do and gave me the best down the road light, such that I seldom needed to use high beams at all. 

 

A while back, Bosch (or similar) was working on a new headlight concept using fibre-optic emitters rather than a dedicated bulb.  Using a camera system to determine on-coming vehicles or pedestrians, the computer would appropriately dim individual emitters to decrease "glare" in the on-coming driver's eyes.  So the lights only had "high beam" brightness, but dimmed emitters as needed.  This was hailed as a great improvement, but not cost figure was ever given for it.  As neat as this was, it did nothing to fix the "high contrast light situation" for the on-coming drivers.  THAT still existed.  

 

Additionally, the beam pattern was "out there" rather than being defined.  THAT bothered me too.  A "wall of light" coming at you on a dark night with few reflective pavement markings can be a recipe for crashes to happen.  By observation, many people tend to get a false sense of "I can see" confidence if they can clearly see 25 feet in front of their car with their bright lights.  When they need to be looking 750+ feet in front of their car at night.  When ever you see an obstacle at 60mph, determine what it is, your vehicle could have traveled close to 200 feet BEFORE any steering or braking activity happens.  Many people seem to have forgotten about that, or have not thought about it, apparently.  So, brighter is not always better.

 

What got me concerned was that one night, I was at a T-intersection at a stop sign.  A late-model F150, raised from stock ride height with fancy wheels sticking out wider than the truck body, with bright bulbs in the 4 headlights and 2 fog lights, ALL on at once.  Nice looking truck, in the daytime, but all of those bright lights blazing at dark, threw all kinds of multiple shadows around my car making it hard to see the road and anybody driving on it.  Then I started to notice other pickup trucks and their headlight heights!  All of those shadows motivated me to turn right when I desired to turn left, just to get away from those lights, even if it meant I had to go a different route to do it.  I know he didn't mean any harm, but "unintended consequences" sometimes happen.

 

Now, I'll admit that I'll be 72 in two months, but I found it interesting that some work associates got animated when the "lights in the rear view mirror" issue was mentioned.  They are in their late 40s.

 

Sorry I got off on that tangent.

NTX5467

[XframeFX]

9 hours ago, Jim Cannon said:

With recent advances in LED headlight technology, I'd look at replacing the original sealed beams with LEDs. They have very low current draw, so relays and such are not needed.

I agree. Research LED headlights.

 

For my '63, I did a simple swap at sealed beam connectors and added one relay for all 4 filaments to high beams.

This reduces the load on flimsy #18 wire and headlight switch.

 

1) Swap AWG #16 from high beams over to regular beam position which will require orphaning a terminal on each side (now feeding 2 headlights from 4)

 

2) Splice in Hi Beam indicator to AWG #18 in dash harness (only difficult part)

 

3) Wire all 4 Hi Beam filaments with new #16 wire to a 30A relay with the coil fed by the original #18 Reg. Beam wire.

 

No Kit required.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 25, 2023 by XframeFX (see edit history)

[Jim Cannon]

Something like these:

https://a.co/d/iBh5tgE

 

[XframeFX]

2 hours ago, Jim Cannon said:

Something like these:

https://a.co/d/iBh5tgE

 

TX. Link goes on to suggest this (same for Gen 2 Riviera)

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08X4J8GVH/ref=sspa_mw_detail_0?ie=UTF8&psc=1&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9waG9uZV9kZXRhaWwp13NParams

Edited October 26, 2023 by XframeFX (see edit history)

[cquisuila]

hello

i bought this 2 relays kit

and i have questions for wiring :

 

- i know the red wire to + permanent

the black to -

the blue wire to lights with one relay white wire for tan color (low beam) and one relay white wire for light green (high beam)

the white wire to switch lights

 

but yellow wire ? fuse wire ?

 

thanks for your answer !

philippe

 

Edited November 21, 2023 by cquisuila (see edit history)

[dr914]

I bolted in Hellas and did not need any relay what so ever.  Look great are nice and bright ,there is a kit for the four beams and it is reasonably priced

[cquisuila]

27 minutes ago, dr914 said:

I bolted in Hellas and did not need any relay what so ever.  Look great are nice and bright ,there is a kit for the four beams and it is reasonably priced

Perhaps but i have already the new lights

 

[XframeFX]

6 hours ago, cquisuila said:

but yellow wire ? fuse wire ?

Ya, too many wires, I counted 6 colours but, the SPST relay has 4 terminals. Then there's that fuse block, 6 fuses? Is this an American Auto wire kit?

 

Focusing just on the relay and colours:

Blue (87) to Headlight filament

Red (fused + feed) to #30

Black (ground) to 85 or 86 (coil)

Light switch to 85 or 86 (coil)

 

Orphan the remaining?

Honestly, if the image represents your actual HW, doesn't need to be that elaborate.

 

I added two relays. One for Blower Motor feed and the 2nd for High Beams.

I have yet to decide on LED headlights. I threw out Hellas I was saving in the shed after noticing the reflectors de-laminating. So, still running T3s!

Edited November 21, 2023 by XframeFX (see edit history)

[cquisuila]

16 minutes ago, XframeFX said:

Ya, too many wires, I counted 6 colours but, the SPST relay has 4 terminals. Then there's that fuse block, 6 fuses? Is this an American Auto wire kit?

Focusing just on the relay and colours:

Blue (87) to Headlight filament

Red (fused + feed) to 85 or 86 (coil)

Black (ground) to 85 or 86 (coil)

#30 from your light switch

thank you

your diagram is for one relay

 

i have a box of 2 relays with differents fuses

-one relay THAT I will USE for low beams

-and one relay THAT i will use for high beam

and on every relay there is 3 fuses: i think that your have the choice of amperage fuse from 5A to 30 A

 

correspondance with up shématic :

 

 so always question for yellow AND blue wire ?? destination ?

 

[XframeFX]

10 minutes ago, cquisuila said:

so always question for yellow AND blue wire ?? destination ?

Oops, a Type-O earlier.

 

Working from Relay terminals, this is correct:

Blue (87) to Headlight filament

Red (fused + feed) to #30

Black (ground) to 85 or 86 (coil)

Light switch to 85 or 86 (coil)

 

Will only require one appropriate fuse and jumper to #30 of both relays. If the other terminals are fused, need to know more.

 

So, #87 from one relay is Lt Green to Hi Beam and #87 from the other relay is Tan to Lo-Beam.

From the Kit, it appears #87 from each relay is blue?

No clue on what is meant with the yellow wire without knowing more.

[cquisuila]

DETAIL OF MY BOX

 

[XframeFX]

According to your image, yellow is terminal #87 and connects to sealed beam filament.

Again, judging by the gauge of those wires, it will be challenging to do double crimps nicely with two #12 AWG wires to one connector. Two for Lo-Beam and one for Hi-Beam. So, maybe you should have a fuse on each terminal!

[cquisuila]

1 hour ago, XframeFX said:

connector

 

1 hour ago, XframeFX said:

According to your image, yellow is terminal #87 and connects to sealed beam filament.

Again, judging by the gauge of those wires, it will be challenging to do double crimps nicely with two #12 AWG wires to one connector. Two for Lo-Beam and one for Hi-Beam. So, maybe you should have a fuse on each terminal!

And the blue wires ?

[Bloo]

Yellow - to headlight filaments. One yellow for high, the other yellow for low.

Red - both to 12v power (fuse 2 and fuse 5 are then automatically used for headlights, choose appropriate fuses)

Black - both to ground

White - connect to existing headlight wires, one white for high, the other white for low.

 

Blue - 4 fused circuits using fuses 1,3,4,and 6. Also powered by 12v from red wires. Not used or needed for headlights.

 

 

[cquisuila]

43 minutes ago, Bloo said:

Yellow - to headlight filaments. One yellow for high, the other yellow for low.

Red - both to 12v power (fuse 2 and fuse 5 are then automatically used for headlights, choose appropriate fuses)

Black - both to ground

White - connect to existing headlight wires, one white for high, the other white for low.

 

Blue - 4 fused circuits using fuses 1,3,4,and 6. Also powered by 12v from red wires. Not used or needed for headlights.

 

 

super thank you

so i don't use blue wire...

 

for fuse power > i think to put a 15A  for low beam in 2 emplacement and a 20A for high beam in 5 emplacement

is it good PLEASE ?

Edited November 22, 2023 by cquisuila (see edit history)

[Bloo]

That should be OK.

[wimpyv6]

Swapped out the old standard low beams on the '63 to the newer (at the time, probably 10 years ago) to the new bulb insert and was happy at the time.  Recently replaced the halogens and  installed the Holley Retrobrights leds on the '87 GN and wow, what a difference.  Plug and play.  Going to swap out the tube style on the '63 with Retrobrights in the spring too.

 

photo is halogen vs Retrobright on the GN

 

 

thanks, len.

[cquisuila]

On 11/22/2023 at 10:43 AM, cquisuila said:

super thank you

so i don't use blue wire...

 

for fuse power > i think to put a 15A  for low beam in 2 emplacement and a 20A for high beam in 5 emplacement

i put this box with your advise and the diagram is good< thank you for your advise💯

i tested and the headlights no longer flicker  !!! YES !

 

finished job !!

Edited January 17 by cquisuila (see edit history)