Interesting thought on cyl fogging for storage

[92GTA]

I had a thought I wanted to run by others here. I have a 92 Trans Am that I need to prep for long-term storage.

 

We all know it's best practice to drain the fuel tank and then run the engine until it stalls to empty the fuel. We also know you should remove the spark plugs, fog the cylinders, then seal off the intake and the exhaust. All good and well, however, this process leaves residual fuel in the pump, fuel lines, fuel rails, and fuel injectors.

 

What IF instead I did it this way; I'd still run the car to empty on gas, but instead of pulling the plugs to fog the cylinders, I'd pour a couple of gallons of a WD-40 like substance into the fuel tank. Then disable the ignition spark, turn the key to prime the system with the WD-40, and then give the engine a session of extended cranks. The fuel pump should be able to move something the viscosity of WD-40 up to pressure (43.5psi) so the injectors operate. This would flush and effectively safeguard my fuel pump, fuel lines, fuel rails, injectors, combustion chambers, and even the inside of the exhaust at the cylinder head against the effect of fuel deterioration and corrosion.

 

Thoughts? Has anyone tried this on motorcycles, boats, etc.? I also have a fuel injected motorcycle I'd like to do this to.

 

Thanks!

Edited September 24, 2023 by 92GTA (see edit history)

[californiamilleghia]

I  always wanted a way to spray the cylinder walls before trying to turn over engines that have sat a long time , 

 

and most of my cars are flat motors ......VWs etc

[Scooter Guy]

You will get many opinions on what to do and not do when storing a vehicle and here's mine...

 

I would not put a few gallons of WD40 in the gas tank and then try to circulate it through the fuel system to use it as a protectant. WD40 is a solvent, not a replacement for fogging oil or a fuel system treatment. That said, if you search long enough on the internet you can find someone that has tried almost anything and swears by it and there are people that have done exactly what you're talking about. You could certainly try it and report back to us on how it went. 

[92GTA]

Well obviously the best product to use would be ACF-50, but it's not meant to be burnt. So recommissioning the engine in the future would be a MUCH more difficult task.

 

Fogging oil I don't think can be pushed by the fuel pump at the pressures needed to open the fuel injectors properly. It would need to be a super light weight, like super light.

[Str8-8-Dave]

Outboard Marine Corporation used to make fogging oil intended to be mixed with appropriate 2-stroke or 4-stroke gasoline in a dedicated temporary portable tank.  In the case of outboards you simply disconnected the regular tank and snapped the connecter from the fogging tank on, ran the engine until it smoked heavily, then shut it down.  Since it went thru the crankcase on 2-stroke engines this was quite effective, coating not only cylinders but also coating the rotating mass (rods, crank) that resides in the crankcase.  For 4-stroke automotive engines it required disconnecting the tank line from the fuel pump and clamping the fogging tank hose onto the fuel in fitting on the fuel pump.  It was less effective on rotating mass protection but did well protecting cylinders.  Somewhere along the line, OMC went belly-up and was bought out by Canadian Bombardier and I also suspect the EPA didn't like the idea of all that smoke so as far as I know, you can't buy OMC fogging oil anymore.  I found a combination of a healthy dose of Sta-Bil fuel stabilizer added to the non-ethanol fuel I run and use of Eagle fogging oil in an aerosol can for cylinder protection works pretty well on the 31 Buick.  The Sta-Bil stuff is less effective if you run ethanol blended pump gas, especially in an older car with a vented gas tank, because the ethanol absorbs water.  If that's what you run, nothing short of draining the tank and running the system dry will work.  That becomes a bit tricky if using the aerosol spray fogging oil because correct use of that requires first warming the engine up, then removing the air cleaner and throttling up to a good fast idle, like 1200-1500RPM, spraying continuously for 30 seconds or so, then continuing to spray while closing the throttle and literally flooding the engine out with fogging oil.  Don't stop spraying until the engine dies and stops.  My solution before I wised up and stopped using ethanol blended fuel was to use a portable 3 gallon boat tank to supply a mixture of non-ethanol fuel with a good dose of Sta-Bil in it to do the end of year fogging.  My portable tank also had a primer bulb on the fuel line which was very handy for priming the carburetor without beating up the starter for a long run.  

[92GTA]

That's some great info, thank you!

 

In the case of my 92 Trans Am, warming up the engine and then flooding it out on fogging oil is an option. I'm admittedly more worried about the Sta-Bil gunking up the injectors after 10-20 years than cylinder rust based on my environment. Which is why I was thinking about doing the whole fuel system. That boat technique with mixing the fogging oil with non-eth might be an option if it's a really oil heavy mix.

 

[R Walling]

 I have heard that water trying to go through diesel injectors Will DISTROY them, THERFORE, I assume that trying other things would be a very dangerous thing to try!

 

 Added on 9/28/23, To avoid confusion, i was speaking of water in a diesel fuel tank that can destroy injectors.

Edited September 28, 2023 by R Walling (see edit history)

[West Peterson]

Perhaps also define your idea of "long term."

[92GTA]

8 minutes ago, R Walling said:

 I have heard that water trying to go through diesel injectors Will DISTROY them, THERFORE, I assume that trying other things would be a very dangerous thing to try!

Not sure why anyone would want to run water through an injector, that's only going to lead to corrosion. But speaking to gasoline injectors, they have solvents run through them for cleaning purposes with zero problems.

[92GTA]

10 minutes ago, West Peterson said:

Perhaps also define your idea of "long term."

10 years plus. I'd expect every 5 or so years the need to re-do the process to keep the fuel system clean, pump functioning, injectors flowing, and combustion chambers lubricated.

 

Of course, the better alternative is to do a fresh engine rebuild and pack the damn thing solid with grease. Or put the vehicle in an argon encapsulation. But those aren't options for my 92 Trans Am.

Edited September 27, 2023 by 92GTA (see edit history)

[Scooter Guy]

I don't think there is any cure-in-a-bottle solution that will do what you are expecting and last for 5, 10, or 20 years. 

 

The enemy of cars (and most mechanical devices) is sitting. Even if you circulate some kind of liquid through the fuel system and fog the engine, those aren't "set it and forget it" solutions that will allow you to just hop in the car all those years later as though nothing has happened. 

 

It would be better to find a trusted friend or family member that could occasionally drive the car so that it gets up to temperature, fluids get flowing, rotating assemblies move, suspension flexes, tires roll, and so on.  There will be maintenance items that pop up and should be addressed, too. So, I don't think there is going to be anything you can do now that will keep you from having to do some sort of re-commissioning work in the future when you want to pull it out of storage. 

[Trulyvintage]

Storing your vehicle over

the Winter ?

 

Address the freezing issue

if applicable - run this thru

your fuel system.

If you are storing it longer

than that - someone needs to

be periodically starting it

anjd driving it.

 

Jim

Edited September 27, 2023 by Trulyvintage (see edit history)

[92GTA]

43 minutes ago, Scooter Guy said:

I don't think there is any cure-in-a-bottle solution that will do what you are expecting and last for 5, 10, or 20 years. 

 

The enemy of cars (and most mechanical devices) is sitting. Even if you circulate some kind of liquid through the fuel system and fog the engine, those aren't "set it and forget it" solutions that will allow you to just hop in the car all those years later as though nothing has happened. 

 

It would be better to find a trusted friend or family member that could occasionally drive the car so that it gets up to temperature, fluids get flowing, rotating assemblies move, suspension flexes, tires roll, and so on.  There will be maintenance items that pop up and should be addressed, too. So, I don't think there is going to be anything you can do now that will keep you from having to do some sort of re-commissioning work in the future when you want to pull it out of storage. 

I appreciate your thoughts on the items out-of-scope for this conversation, but rest assured that those concerns are already addressed and don't need to be considered.

 

This topic is just to focus on the fuel system and combustion chambers, ideas on how to do so, and discuss creative ways of perhaps doing it.

Edited September 27, 2023 by 92GTA (see edit history)

[92GTA]

30 minutes ago, Trulyvintage said:

Storing your vehicle over

the Winter ?

 

Address the freezing issue

if applicable - run this thru

your fuel system.

If you are storing it longer

than that - someone needs to

be periodically starting it

anjd driving it.

 

Jim

Yeah, that is a very short-term. A less than 2 years I'd say sort of solution at best.

[EmTee]

18 hours ago, 92GTA said:

10 years plus.

In that case, I would completely drain the fuel system and consider running something like MMO through the pump and injectors.

[AHa]

I was just going to ask why running Marvel Mystery Oil through the system would not work. It should leave a coating of oil on everything. Just follow the instructions on the can. The other thing I have become a big believer in is Seafoam. My model T sets way too much and the carburetor has a hard time waking up but Seafoam run through the fuel system cleans things out beautifully. Both of these products are controversial in some circles but I have had good success with them.

[92GTA]

Being honest, I've woken up several cars that used MMO and after 20 years they were as gunked up as anything. Not as bad as leaving fuel in there to turn into solid mustard powder, but not great. So a custom mixture of some sort I've not landed on IMO is called for.

 

An alternative method I've tried in the past is running denatured alcohol through it all then compressed air. This leaves zero residue, BUT, will hopelessly dry out anything rubber. Of course doing this requires removing the park plugs to fog the cylinders, which ranges from easy on some cars to near impossible on others.

 

I have another project on the side where I flushed with denatured alcohol, air compressed dry thru the fuel rail, and then flushed with motorcycle brake/clutch grade pure mineral oil and then drained. Thinking the denatured alcohol did the cleaning and the mineral oil will leave enough to maintain the fuel lines, injector o-rings, pump, etc. all lubricated just enough to fend off corrosion. Again tho, can't run mineral oil thru gasoline injectors so spark plugs had to be removed to fog the cylinders.

 

Perhaps the answer is to do the last one but to fog the cylinders, spray it into the TB wide open while cranking the engine over to suck it in (ignition disconnected of course).

Edited September 28, 2023 by 92GTA (see edit history)

[EmTee]

If not stored in a climate controlled garage, you'll need to do something to protect the inside of the gas tank.  While it's off to be emptied I'd consider having a drain installed.  That could be left open to allow condensation to drain during storage.

[92GTA]

All of this is in the context of perfect storage; ie indoors, parked on moving blankets in a fully finished/insulated facility, consistent year-round temp, 30-35% humidity, under a breathable cover, pitch black darkness (no UV), etc. etc.

 

The way I usually empty the tank is to remove the fuel pump assembly from the top (or bottom on a motorcycle), use a hand pump to manually suction it dry, fog the inside of the tank with fogging oil, then re-seal.

Edited September 28, 2023 by 92GTA (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

Too many round parts in a car to store, they need to be rolling. Best to sell the car now and keep rolling the money over in CDs. Maybe even add the $100 per month value of the storage (I pay $120). Buy a nice one when it is time.

 

Dead storage is still dead. And they make movies about the horror of restoring the dead to life.

[Century Eight]

As a 74 year old who has been playing with cars for 50 years, I agree with @60FlatTop.  i have had cars that really suffered in storage and I should have parted with them instead of storing them.  Some did well, others, not so well depending on the storage.  Life happens, you sometimes get transferred or need an operation due to health, and six months turns into six years, 20 years, and even more.  

 

The best thing is to make arrangements for storage where the vehicle can be started every three months and driven around the block.  That will easily turn into a year but it is much better than mothballed for ten years.  No matter what you pay to have short term storage, it is still cheaper and better on the car than a five or ten year slumber.

[yachtflame]

I’ve been winterizing my boats and cars the same way for 40 years with good results. I add Sta-bil to the tank and then pour Marvel Mystery Oil into the carburetor until the engine dies. This lubricated the carb, the cylinders, the exhaust manifold, exhaust pipes and muffler. It also clears out any mosquitoes in the area!