apolo1100 Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 Hi there all., Haven't even finish my 24 touring car...and this came to me from a friend of a friend .. After many years in the garage, now it's my time to tinker with this project, Looks like they want it to build a stroker engine and fit it with new technology bearings and crankshaft but was never finish. There's a new crank been build from scratch..and i can see today after getting the second load of parts that in one of the crank case they were making big modifications to accommodate new modern bearings. Will post those later .. But i just going to get things going fast on this ..will need some help to get gaskets to put the engine together and also a new set of pistons and rings for what looks to be a 16 to 1920? Engine blocks that some are clean and cut to 3 3/8+.60 over to 3.453 final . That's one block ..and some others are hone and looks to be smaller diameter. I haven't gone through any parts yet ..but i know i don't have those parts .. I do have 3 set of pistones with rods and all ..so I will check on those first. This car build was started by a guy name Stanley Jones from simi valley CA. And then was sold to the next owner in 98 and was garage till now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apolo1100 Posted March 9, 2023 Author Share Posted March 9, 2023 Here some pics of the crankshaft build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apolo1100 Posted March 9, 2023 Author Share Posted March 9, 2023 More of what you guys like.! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apolo1100 Posted March 9, 2023 Author Share Posted March 9, 2023 More pics.! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 Take that crumby alternator off and fix the real generator. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apolo1100 Posted March 9, 2023 Author Share Posted March 9, 2023 Me and parts.! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apolo1100 Posted March 9, 2023 Author Share Posted March 9, 2023 Hi Morgan.. It looks to be a dual voltage car .. its a 6v and 12 volts. it has a few modern relays and new wiring done. let's see if anybody can identified another mod they did to this car from studding the pictures..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 They put an electric fan behind the radiator which means the original fan must be gone. And the mailbox coil was replaced by a generic one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apolo1100 Posted March 9, 2023 Author Share Posted March 9, 2023 the Fans are here , a couple of them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Wise Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 (edited) Thanks for the photo,s. What a find. The body just needs a clean and polish. Can I see front brakes. Edited March 9, 2023 by Rod Wise (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swear57 Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 Look like there are extra head lights do you want to sell a set? PM if you do. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 What a menagerie of parts! I see at least three crankcases (cannot see enough to tell what years) and five cylinder blocks. Three of the blocks are 1918 and up. The parts alone are worth more than the car. I simply cannot even begin to imagine trying to put that car together using what is in the photos. It would take at least two experienced Buick persons a few days to go through everything and get things sorted out so that it could be determined just what is there. I get tired just looking at that mess. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas AACA Life Member #947918 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Wise Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 Terry, It is a Treasure Trove, and what fun sorting everything out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apolo1100 Posted March 12, 2023 Author Share Posted March 12, 2023 Hi there. Back from a full day of sorting parts out just for the engine part of it .. All the blocks are super clean inside and most of them are hone. 6 of them One it's .60 oversized. One crankcase was modified to fit the modern crank witch it's not finish. the crank size looks to be Chevy 2 inch bearings. one other crankshaft was drilled for lubrication.. very well done job.! Rods they are two size.. A large babit diameter and a small one..the small ones fit a standard small size crankshaft.. What a job ..and now we have to see if we can fit a 24 crank in to the highly modified crankcase and grind it to fit. At least I think I can put two engines together for sure..maybe three.. will keep working on it next week. Anybody can help me on identify the year of each engine numbers.? Thanks..! Cheers. Apolo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oregon Desert model 45 Posted March 12, 2023 Share Posted March 12, 2023 Hi Apolo from Engine number table in Master Parts Book 1916-1932: 1916 144729 and up 1917 253259 and up 1918 320782 and up 1919 474337 and up 1920 540365 and up 398526 = 1918 270583 = 1917 528772 = 1919 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apolo1100 Posted March 12, 2023 Author Share Posted March 12, 2023 Hi Kevin.. Thanks a lot.. that's very helpful.. One more block will be the one on the car ..is this one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apolo1100 Posted March 12, 2023 Author Share Posted March 12, 2023 I guess it falls on to the 1917. Right.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apolo1100 Posted March 12, 2023 Author Share Posted March 12, 2023 One more technical question.. I can see two types of oil pans.. One withe oil tube that runs on one side ( inside) with a line coming out on the center of pan. On other all closed with no holes or line inside. Second question. It's the tolerance for the cast pistons bigger than the aluminum ones .? Trying to figure out if the pistons i have are usable for one block at least. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepcak Posted March 12, 2023 Share Posted March 12, 2023 I would say aluminium pistons need more clearance in (cast iron) cylinder bore than cast iron ones. Cast iron pistons expand with (theoretically) the same rate with cast iron block, while aluminium pistons expand lot more thus require more clearance... 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 What a stash of parts. Lots of sort time in the future. I would put the original crank in the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apolo1100 Posted March 14, 2023 Author Share Posted March 14, 2023 Today's job was to find a way to use an oil pump to this crankcase.. Lot of work when into this one..! there's any way to know by the casting numbers the year of crankshaft.? and there's anybody try to put an high volume oil pump on one of this engines.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 Do the camshafts fit and turn the oil pump? I see you have a couple: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 On the D-Series engines and later models also, the oil pumps were driven from the back end of the camshaft. Why would anyone want to dinker around with the oil pump on one of these engines? Things worked rather well the way Mr. Marr designed them - why go messing with it now. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas AACA Life Member #947918 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 If it were mine, I would keep it simple. I would use the original crankshaft, remove the three of the four main bearing caps that are not original and replace them with the original caps. Get the crankshaft cleaned up and have the bearings rebabbited. Dig out the original oil pump and install it as original. There is no reason to try to re-engineer these engines. They went hundreds of thousands of miles on the original design worry free. If you go back to all original and you need a part, it is easier to find an original than try to find a part for a franken-car with what ever the dimensions. Just my opinion and what I practice. The one thing that I do change on my vehicles that is not original is to install aluminum pistons instead of the original cast iron pistons. Less reciprocating mass which should have less stress and wear on the bearings. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 Even the camshaft bearings look like they need babbit. I don't think rust makes a good bearing surface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepcak Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 (edited) I think you have two types of engine here; "smaller" one that is "D" of 1917 and "bigger" that is likely "E" for 1918 as determined above by engine #. I would think the later is overall longer due to bigger bore, so crankcase, crankshaft and block are longer and simply does not interchange with the earlier type and (I guess) also do not fit into earlier chassis. The 1917 D block also has water pump entry between #3 and #4 cylinder, while later has the entry between #2 an #3 cylinder. Also I believe that 1917 block has all 12 valve nests the same size and in line arrangement, while the later has one set of valves bigger (not sure if this inlet or exhaust from top of my head) and "zig-zag" arrangement due to this size difference. And yes, I would also go as much original as possible as Larry suggests, you have great selection of parts to start with, so why to re-invent the wheel 🙂 Edited March 14, 2023 by pepcak (see edit history) 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apolo1100 Posted March 15, 2023 Author Share Posted March 15, 2023 Thanks pepcak.. I do know i have 2 different types of engines here . Now you made a good comment about water inlet witch i did not notice that ..thanks.. Yes I know guys .. I'll try to keep it as much as original as posible ..BUT. I don't know what this previous owners where trying to do here ..and that's what I like to find out.. This pictures I'm sharing it's just to show what I'm going through here ..it doesn't mean I'm gonna use this ..but since I have enough parts to make 3 engines..i like to finish also what they started here. I'm a guy that it's fascinated by all this mechanical convertions people do on this old cars.. specially at the level this Stanley Jones guy did it.. That crankcase you see with bearing cups made new ..has a line bore done to fit the new crank shaft they where making . So that crankcase it Destin to be finish that way. Now the 1918 crankcase will be the one that i will do as stock for the car. BUT...i only have the large crank to fit on that one (large crank) And it's drill to suit a high volume oil pump .. so since I don't have any other large crank i want it to do that .. But we where thinking that in order to pressurize the crankshaft i will have to plug all the holes in the rods...and then again i don't know how we can do that without damaging the babit. So looks like the cheapest, fastest solution will be to use the crank as is and that's all. UNLESS...i can use the set up it's on the car and be done with it. I have to clean all the engine parts first and then i will get an accurate readings of rads . mains and crankshafts.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 Throw the Frankenstein crankshaft in the garbage and use the real Buick parts. WTF? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldtech Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 I dunno. It would be fun to see what a Buick motor would be like with a couterbalanced crank and aluminum pistons. 😁 Nicely balanced it should be a performer. Of course, I'm spending your money. If the rods are machined out for shells the hole wouldn't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonMicheletti Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 If you have the money, there is nothing wrong with a properly done counterbalanced crank - even with the original splash oiling. The counterbalance will make evrything easier on the engine. A well done pressure oiling system would be a challenge but can be done. I have seen it done on an early Thomas Flyer. Obviously, leaving original is fine and cheaper. You get to choose, just like everything else. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apolo1100 Posted April 16, 2023 Author Share Posted April 16, 2023 How is everyone doing... Here i got some pics for you to enjoy.! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibarlaw Posted April 16, 2023 Share Posted April 16, 2023 Apollo: Interesting, more modern clutch that was installed. I wonder what it is. 1917 cars would still have a cone clutch. 1918 began the multi plate clutch similar to what is in my both my 1925 Standard and Master. Back in October of 2021 Apollo visited us here in PA. here he is after our spin in Beulah. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted April 16, 2023 Share Posted April 16, 2023 I asked the guys at Abrahams Machine when they were rebuilding the 16's engine just how they would go about balancing the rotating assembly. The answer I got sure was not what I was expecting. They told me that a straight 6 really doesn't need any balancing because of the firing order and the weight in the engine's flywheel. They knew what they were talking about because that engine runs so unbelievably smooth. Another thing that just blows me away is that when I step on the gas it is almost immediate acceleration and I am thinking that the 45+ pound flywheel has a lot to do with that also. As they told me - if it ain't broke, don't go tryin' to fix it. Works for me. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas AACA Life Member #947918 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldtech Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 That's a cool clutch mod. Looks like 235 Chevy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apolo1100 Posted April 17, 2023 Author Share Posted April 17, 2023 Hi guys.. sorry i did not write to much this morning when I post the pics...i was making time waiting for a table at a restaurant for breakfast.. celebrating my birthday..! Was a fun day do.! Talking about the mass weight on the flywheel that is very true.. I'm going to compare between the two flywheels and clutches since I will have them out ..i like to know if they took in consideration the mass weigh when they did the clutch mod here.. They cut the input shaft length like a 1/4 inch from the tip ...but i think they use a ford input shaft on the mod ...will post pics next week. I have the cam and crankshaft polish already and Ned to find a cylinder block that fits the pistons i have to use.. Oil pump looks like it's ok to use the original one..but will try to fit a GM 350 ciu in to the mod. Now there's one think i noticed here with all the parts and crankcase i have. There's two different oil pans ..one that runs oil lines from outside to the side of oil pan..that will looks like 16-17 maybe 18 models ..and another oil pan that has no line hole coming from the outside.. If I get to use the original one will have to use the oil pan with hole on the side. Can anyone correct me if I'm wrong..? Well will keep you posted if on how thinks are going here .. Cheers.! Man i look good on Larry 's car..! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 The original oil pan has a line pumping oil up to the dashboard, and a return line from the dashboard to the 6 troughs in the pan that the dippers at the bottom of the connecting rods dip into. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibarlaw Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 (edited) 10 hours ago, apolo1100 said: Hi guys.. sorry i did not write to much this morning when I post the pics...i was making time waiting for a table at a restaurant for breakfast.. celebrating my birthday..! Was a fun day do.! Talking about the mass weight on the flywheel that is very true.. I'm going to compare between the two flywheels and clutches since I will have them out ..i like to know if they took in consideration the mass weigh when they did the clutch mod here.. They cut the input shaft length like a 1/4 inch from the tip ...but i think they use a ford input shaft on the mod ...will post pics next week. I have the cam and crankshaft polish already and Ned to find a cylinder block that fits the pistons i have to use.. Oil pump looks like it's ok to use the original one..but will try to fit a GM 350 ciu in to the mod. Now there's one think i noticed here with all the parts and crankcase i have. There's two different oil pans ..one that runs oil lines from outside to the side of oil pan..that will looks like 16-17 maybe 18 models ..and another oil pan that has no line hole coming from the outside.. If I get to use the original one will have to use the oil pan with hole on the side. Can anyone correct me if I'm wrong..? Well will keep you posted if on how thinks are going here .. Cheers.! Man i look good on Larry 's car..! Well, a Happy Belated Birthday Apolo! Edited April 17, 2023 by dibarlaw spelling (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apolo1100 Posted April 19, 2023 Author Share Posted April 19, 2023 Thanks Morgan for the info..and thanks Larry for the wishes..! I assume something like that had to be . Now is the gauge or just a visual oil aparato on dash is something I can get aftermarket or it's an specific one.? Any spare one laying around i can get..from someone.? The car it's fit with an oil pressure gauge..but i think was set up for the new mod they where trying to do. Well ..will keep you inform. How it's going here. Cheers.! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apolo1100 Posted April 19, 2023 Author Share Posted April 19, 2023 I have a question I forgot to ask .. Maybe Morgan may have an answer.. Need to get Tork specs for crankshaft main and rods on the 17 Buick.. Also what would be the gap on them ones they all tight together..i like to plastic gauge them. Thanks.. Apolo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonMicheletti Posted April 19, 2023 Share Posted April 19, 2023 On the rods. First measure the diameter od the throws in several places to see if the crank is out of round (probably is). A minor amount is OK. In setting the rods, after you set the clearance on each rod, rotate the crank a few turns to see if there are tight spots. If you set all the rods and then check, if youhave a tight spot, you wont know which one it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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