Care to make a guess at IDing this car?

[Max4Me]

My daughter’s friend sent this pic. She said it’s a 1927, but no other info. It looks pretty rough. I love the plywood separating the engine from the passenger compartment. But like I told my daughter, it’s running and on the road! I am interested in it’s heritage!

[TerryB]

Looks like a Ford Model T

[Max4Me]

5 minutes ago, TerryB said:

Looks like a Ford Model T

Thanks, TerryB. That was my thought because of the lever on the left near where the door should be but I’m not well-versed enough to be sure.

[nzcarnerd]

Likely cobbled-up from leftover bits of mixed years(?). 

[Paul Dobbin]

They call those Model T Speedsters,  meaning a Model T made into a Sports Car from an assortment of Model T and home made parts.

[TerryB]

The owner better not buy too much stuff at Costco today.  Doesn’t look like much storage on that rig😀

[DFeeney]

Let us remember the hobby ranges from high end to low end projects.   Speedster projects are a lot of fun and low cost.  They require skill and "Vision" as the owners usually do most of the work themselves. I am currently working on my 4th. ( 1922 Hudson with a 1949 Hudson straight 8 engine/trans). I usually work on them over the "Winter" to fill in my day.  It takes me about 3 yrs/part time to build one at a cost of $6. a day.  This is less than a pack of cigarettes , better for your health and keeps you "Out of the Bars"

[Bloo]

I'm no T expert, but I think several years are represented there, and not much 1927. It could have a 1927 engine though. That might determine it's identity for title purposes.

[wayne sheldon]

Typical modern model T speedster. It is not true to any proper original era. I often refer to model T speedsters as one of the longest running automobile sub-hobbies in the world! The first ones were being built by 1908 as prototype model T chassis with simple speedster type bodies to test drive and improve chassis designs. After the model T hit the market in late calendar 1908, two custom factory built model Ts ran in a race from New York to Seattle Washington. By 1910, many dealers and even Ford owners were beginning to build their own speedsters, dealers used them to showcase the car's abilities in local events. Model T Fords have been built into speedsters in every calendar year since then! The real "speedster era" began during the brass era and continued into and through the mid 1920s. Real era "speedsters" were built to look like the racing cars or custom type sports cars of their era. So brass era and late 1910s "real speedsters would be crude and open, as were the racing cars of that era, or look something like a Mercer or Stutz Bearcat of the brass era. Real "speedsters" of the 1920s would be more enclosed, and resemble the racing cars or sports cars of the 1920s. 

Years ago (I have since misplaced it), I made a list of nearly fifty companies that built and sold bodies or speedster kits for model Ts and other cars. Most of them were in business before 1922. By 1926, there were only a handful left. For many reasons, the true "speedster era" had come to an end. There were (as said) many reasons for that, many of them sociological. However, there were always a few people that kept building cars that could be called a speedster. The "Go-Jobs" that eventually became "hot rods" started out somewhat like speedsters. And model T racing continued to be popular until well after World War Two! Many young men coming of age during the war couldn't get a real car at that time, so they sometimes ended up with model Ts that hadn't been in use for some years. And more than a few of those young men cut them down into speedster in order to have a little "flash"! Many years ago I spoke with a lot of those men. I miss those days of this hobby. I enjoyed speaking with people that had been there and done that.

Although the true "speedster era" had come to an end, there were still hundreds of people building such cars almost every year. It just wasn't the many thousands of people that built them and drove them during the "speedster era".

After the war, our hobby got going in much bigger numbers than it had had before the war! And some of the incoming hobbyists were beginning to build speedsters. Here is where I sometimes get myself in trouble. I have "restored" six speedsters over my years in this hobby. And although I don't really consider myself a "purist" in the hobby in general (although I do come close to that?), I am somewhat of a "purist" when it comes to speedsters! All my speedsters have come pretty close to being "era correct", and that is how I think they should be done if they are to be considered "Antique" automobiles.

The OP car is in a mid 1910s style, with a mid 1920s chassis. The wheels are 1925 or later, and to my eye, doesn't look much like any of the 480 original era speedster photos I have stored on my computer.

[8E45E]

9 minutes ago, wayne sheldon said:

I often refer to model T speedsters as one of the longest running automobile sub-hobbies in the world! The first ones were being built by 1908 as prototype model T chassis with simple speedster type bodies to test drive and improve chassis designs.

To me, they are also the world's first "Tuner Car" as we know them today.

 

Craig

[1937hd45]

Great overview on Speedsters Wayne! "Era Correct" is rarely seen on speedsters. A 1915 era Speedster may look fine but when you open the hood and the overhead valve head from 1923 just changes everything. 1922-1927 are the years most likely to have more period correct parts to start with. Thirty years ago everyone had a T Speedster project, now those people and the projects are gone. Great period of the hobby to have been in. Bob 

[Soupiov]

Not gone yet!  Just did this '14 for my wife a couple of years ago.  Only non stock parts are the demountable wheels.  She didn't want to have to mount a non demountable clincher on the road and I don't blame,her!

[wayne sheldon]

That is a nice looking speedster! And, for the most part, fairly correct looking for its era. Most brass era speedsters were run fenderless! However, not all of them were.

Note one in a garage still needing some work completed has common model T front and rear fenders, while another era full fendered speedster actually has standard front fenders on all four corners!

 

 

Edited December 12, 2022 by wayne sheldon
I hate leaving typos! (see edit history)

[1937hd45]

Both are Model T Fords, the one with a driver looks to be a 1909 with the one piece spindles.

[wayne sheldon]

Hey there Bob! I spend quite a lot of time studying era photos. And it always amazes me the details I will catch later that I had missed previously. I recall knowing that car has one-piece spindles, and therefore likely a very early chassis. However it also has the short hub with taper axles that began in 1911. It is possible, some were built that way, that the chassis could have had the earlier spindles with the later rear axles. Both changes were made in the first half of 1911 model year, and the crossover times for both have some chassis with one but not the other.

In addition, the car has a later rear/front fender with the stiffening bead across the middle that began very late in 1912 or early model year 1913. Looking very closely under the front front fender, I "think" it is a 1910 or earlier front fender. I always wonder when a car/chassis was converted to a speedster. In most cases, era photos don't give solid clues for when the conversion was done. In this case, the photo does offer some clue to the timeline of the photo, that California porcelain plate was used from 1916 through 1919. They had changeable emblems to designate the year, the bear indicates 1916. The relatively low number (for California!) also indicates a 1916 issuance. However, we still don't know how long the car had been a speedster by 1916.

What I had not noticed before was an interesting detail about the hood. I had noticed it had louvers, and automatically thought it to be a 1915 hood (I see that fairly often in brass era speedsters). However, my posting it here caused me to look it over again (I just cannot help myself!). And the louver positions and spacing is wrong for the 1915 hood! Close looking at the side hinge also suggests that the hood is a 1912 or earlier hood with louvers! Whether it is an after-market manufactured hood with louvers, or a Ford factory issued hood to which louvers were added? I don't know.

Part of what makes it interesting to me, is that I have an original hood like that one! A 1912 or earlier with side hinges full length that will not fit my 1915, with louvers not placed like the 1915 hoods.

I have over the years seen advertisements for louvered hoods for earlier model Ts in this country. And such hoods were quite popular in Australia at the time. I have only spotted a few such hoods in American era photographs, and discovered I had one when it wouldn't fit my 1915.

[1937hd45]

Wayne, The Warwick Eastwood 1909 Model T that is somewhere in the LA County museum collection along with engine #77 has a louvered hood. I saw it on a Tour of the Petersen basement back in 2002. Got the tour long before it was open to the public, Pete Eastwood thought it was a California feature it was unique and not a 1915 hood. 

 

Bob 

[wayne sheldon]

Bob, That is interesting. However, I doubt that it was really a "California" thing. I know that there were local shops that cut louvers into early hoods scattered around the country, as well as some in Australia. The fact that Australian brass era model Ts often had louvered hoods had been discussed on the MTFCA forum several years ago. I would imagine there was at least one shop in Southern California and perhaps they were well known locally.