My '63 recommisionning

[Matt56]

Have posted in a couple of different threads but now created this to document updates on my '63.  This is a RHD car that was converted and registered in Australia in 1967.  Its nail head was long gone when I purchased the car.  I'm told it most recently had a 400 Pontiac in it.  I doubt that was very successful - looking at the mounts, driveline angles and the single piece drive shaft that was used I bet it vibrated horribly.  Thats my guess as to why the engine was pulled.  I purchased the car complete less engine and transmission.  A bonus of the previous Pontiac conversion is the radiator is already modified to suit my intended motor and checked out fine at the radiator shop.

 

I dont have access to a nailhead nor heaps of cash.  I do, however, have a 400 SBC in my garage that I had previously refreshed so have now configured the car and engine to match (oil pan, mounts, electrical etc).  Have also fabricated a twin 2 1/2" exhaust using mainly stuff I had left over from other jobs.

 

My plan for the car is stock outside (down to wheel hub caps); with a lowered ride height.  Interior will be stock with the exception of period appearance appropriate tacho in the console.  Rear axle remains stock.  I've converted the drive shaft back to two piece - Had made from a local two piece (Holden Commodore).  So it now uses a readily available center bearing.

 

The transmission is a TH350 I have built with a Transgo kit.  3500 rpm torque converter and the SBC 406.

 

The car is incredibly rust free - have inspected thoroughly on all inside surfaces - that why I bought it.  I will probably paint the roof back to white and that is the only paint or body work needed.

 

The car came with bonuses including new or reconditioned bumper bars (I also have the originals if anyone local is looking), new windscreen, new carpet (that was not hiding a rusty floor), various somewhat random suspension parts replaced, new white walls

 

Other than that, a standard brake system refresh and identified needed suspension repair and it will be road worthy.

 

[Dundee]

Matt

what state are you doing rego? And club plates or full rego?Dis you need any engineering cert on the RHD?

Just loaded car today to go to Adelaide for completion, have a RHD 63  

Dundee 

[60FlatTop]

I would spend some time and money making the existing modifications work properly. That will add the most value to the car quickly. I don't believe that would be too hard. I have seen a lot of conceptual ideas get jammed together and then fail in the details.

 

In the Jaguar circles you have what they call a "lump", in the end you will have a lump as well. Whether Pontiac or Chevy power won't make a big difference but the Pontiac lump is close to completion.

 

By the way, I recently picked up a '48 Chrysler "lumped" with a SBC. So it ain't like I'd reject the idea.

 

Oh, I was in Sydney just after the Riviera arrived, 1968. Checked out a couple of those RHD conversion in the glow of Kings Cross lights.

Edited December 8, 2022 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)

[Matt56]

3 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

I would spend some time and money making the existing modifications work properly. That will add the most value to the car quickly. I don't believe that would be too hard. I have seen a lot of conceptual ideas get jammed together and then fail in the details.

 

In the Jaguar circles you have what they call a "lump", in the end you will have a lump as well. Whether Pontiac or Chevy power won't make a big difference but the Pontiac lump is close to completion.

 

By the way, I recently picked up a '48 Chrysler "lumped" with a SBC. So it ain't like I'd reject the idea.

 

Oh, I was in Sydney just after the Riviera arrived, 1968. Checked out a couple of those RHD conversion in the glow of Kings Cross lights.

Thanks for your thoughts.  And cool photo!  Hope you enjoyed your time down here.

 

Both the nail head and Pontiac were long gone when I got the car.  I know its not a purists cup of tea but a hot rod cruiser will suit me just fine.  Considerable time and planning has gone into driveline angles, accessory layout etc - thats been all planned and built with dummy block and transmission case.  The oil pan was a pain to modify around the steering - but its all done now.  

 

To simplify the crowded front of the engine I am installing an electric power steering pump (on OEM part out of an Opel/Holden).  Never tried this before so interested to see how well that works.

 

Buick and Jag folk definitely do not seem to prefer modifications (I had a Series I XJ6 completely original).  I have a '56 Chevy and a 1970 Holden Monaro (Aust muscle car).  Both are modified, Ford rear ends etc.  The Aussie muscle car people cannot deal with the fact I mixed and matched trim parts according to my appearance preference.  The TriFive people dont seem fussed at all about mods.  The different sub cultures in the car world are interesting.

 

But for myself I don't apply particular reverence to old cars.  The fact that one model got a particular engine from the factory was just because suits in an office decided.   I'm happy to override their decision    Case in point the Riv could easily have ended up Cadillac badged and powered. 

 

Have a good day.

 

 

[MrFreeze]

Looks like a great project.  Would love to see more pics as you progress.  Just curious, what are you planning to do for wheels and tires?

 

MrFreeze

[Matt56]

9 hours ago, Dundee said:

Matt

what state are you doing rego? And club plates or full rego?Dis you need any engineering cert on the RHD?

Just loaded car today to go to Adelaide for completion, have a RHD 63  

Dundee 

My experience (Victoria) has been that with history proving previous registration, re-registering a converted car has been standard process with a RWC only.  But it must have been previously registered with records to prove.

 

[Matt56]

3 hours ago, MrFreeze said:

Looks like a great project.  Would love to see more pics as you progress.  Just curious, what are you planning to do for wheels and tires?

 

MrFreeze

Wheels and tires will be stock steel with stock wheel covers.  The white walls are dirty but new - if anyone knows secrets for cleaning them I'd love to know.

[RivNut]

Westleys Bleach White. Follow the directions on the bottle.

[Matt56]

10 minutes ago, RivNut said:

Westleys Bleach White. Follow the directions on the bottle.

Thank you

[60FlatTop]

In my area Westley's has label has changed to Black Magic. It seems to do the same job. I always keep a tri-folded piece of 800 grit wet or dry sandpaper in my bucket to get the edges and stubborn spots.

 

Don't forget to raise the car some you can get in there real close.

[RivNut]

Gene Winfield’s trick was lacquer thinner.  It opens the pores in the rubber.

[Matt56]

11 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

In my area Westley's has label has changed to Black Magic. It seems to do the same job. I always keep a tri-folded piece of 800 grit wet or dry sandpaper in my bucket to get the edges and stubborn spots.

 

Don't forget to raise the car some you can get in there real close.

They are some clean white walls!

[Pat Curran]

On 12/9/2022 at 9:43 AM, 60FlatTop said:

In my area Westley's has label has changed to Black Magic. It seems to do the same job. I always keep a tri-folded piece of 800 grit wet or dry sandpaper in my bucket to get the edges and stubborn spots.

 

Don't forget to raise the car some you can get in there real close.

Westley’s sold out to Black Magic several years ago.  The formula was modified to be more environmentally friendly.  It still works but you can no longer spray on and hose off.  

[Matt56]

Summer time down here so decided to take care of the paint and a little bodywork.   The main aim is to get rid of the black roof, grill and a couple of other black items.

 

I couldn't find a paint supplier down here that had code CC on their formulas; and I'm not certain that is the color on the car anyway.  So I ordered up a GM white and found it didnt match.  Assuming that might be the case I adopted the plan B two tone plan.  Happy with the result.  Have now been polishing up and installing headlights and trim etc.  Of course parts were missing pins and I didnt have all the clips so there has been time spent making clips and fasteners etc but it is all coming together.

[Seafoam65]

As everyone knows by now, I'm a purist when it comes to collector cars, but  I would

like to see someone take a 63 Riviera and restore it as a Cadillac to show what the

car would have been like if it was a Cadillac as Bill Mitchell intended. Of course it would

have Lasalle II emblems, a 63 vintage Cadillac V-8, Cadillac steering wheel, etc. I think

if it was done right it would be fabulous.

 

[RivNut]

There are styling studio pictures of the XP-715 in configurations as Oldsmobiles, Pontiacs, and Cadillacs.  Cadillac envisioned it as a LaSalle. In its original design is was a Cadillac and the 63/64 turn signal grills/65 headlight covers were reminiscent of a 38/39 era LaSalle grill.  Not too much difference than the final product. Biggest standouts to me are the grill/headlight, and the pancaked hood.  Bill Mitchell pancaked the hood on the Silver Arrow I.  

Edited February 5, 2023 by RivNut (see edit history)

[Seafoam65]

I think it would be pretty easy to replicate that front end treatment.....love the way those single

headlamp beams look. Are there any existing photos of the rear of the car?

Edited February 6, 2023 by Seafoam65 (see edit history)

[RivNut]

Not a great picture but another rendering.  I really like the double nerf bar rear bumper.

 

[Dundee]

4 hours ago, RivNut said:

Not a great picture but another rendering.  I really like the double nerf bar rear bumper.

 

Wow! So much involved in the concept and now our kids could design something on a PC but maybe not as cool as that..

[Hazdaz]

11 hours ago, RivNut said:

Not a great picture but another rendering.  I really like the double nerf bar rear bumper.

 

Wow the lower left hand picture it really does look like a Cadillac - more formal and upright with those larger bumpers, the different wheels and the rear wheel skits.  It is amazing how a few tweaks here or there can totally change the character of a car. 

[EmTee]

And then there's this take on what John DeLorean might have done... 

 

 

Edited February 6, 2023 by EmTee (see edit history)

[Seafoam65]

Not pictured is the 428 tri-power Pontiac V-8 under the hood....that is an awesome car/

Edited February 6, 2023 by Seafoam65 (see edit history)

[RivNut]

It was at the ROA event in St Charles, IL (outside of Chicago) in 2015.  For those of us who are into crafrmanship, it was very well received.  IMHO, it should have taken the modified award. Others just didn’t care for it; their loss 

[Matt56]

Next task is the tail lights.  Previous owner had performed the modifications presumably with Caddy style pointed lights in mind.  I'm not a fan of them so am adapting round Landrover (typical British round light design) and fabricating brackets to set them into the recess slightly.

 

(Fortunately, I did receive the original lights with the car - and the sheet metal that was cut out.  I may reinstate them down the track as I much prefer the original lights to the modified but I'm trying to limit hours into making this tidy and road worthy).

 

Will put up some photos once done.

[dr914]

the stock 65 GS in my opinion is near perfection (except maybe the tail lights should have been kept in the 63 64 location) 

[Matt56]

Completed the tail light installation.  As purchased, the car was set up for Caddy style lights.  They are not my thing.  To me, the round lights detract from the appearance; but in keeping with this being a recommissioning (and not letting scope get out of hand) I installed generic Landrover style lights after fabricating some buckets to set them at an appropriate depth.

 

I also created a separate post - wanted - for deck lid Buick letters.

[Matt56]

Little bit more completed with engine and transmission set in place and tidied engine bay a little (electrical not started yet).

 

[60FlatTop]

The lights came out well for working with what you have. I would make all the lens red or at least two. If you are required to have white backup lights you could put them back on the bumper. If not a white center with a red perimeter on the inboard light might help. The amber one clashes. Three reds appeal to me most.

[Matt56]

9 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

The lights came out well for working with what you have. I would make all the lens red or at least two. If you are required to have white backup lights you could put them back on the bumper. If not a white center with a red perimeter on the inboard light might help. The amber one clashes. Three reds appeal to me most.

Thats some interesting thoughts, thanks.  As I received it, the car did not come with the factory reverse light housings ... but you make a good point if I could get some at a reasonable price (but then the Australian registration number plate will require modification ...)

 

The amber one does clash.  Had considered a clear lense and amber bulb.  The amber color is essential as Aussies are not familiar with concept of red turn signal.

 

I also would like a round chrome bezel for each light.  Meaning to search the local '$2 shop' for something to improvise.

[Dundee]

7 hours ago, Matt56 said:

Had considered a clear lense and amber bulb.

Like that idea versus the yellow..

[SwedeDownUnderR63]

10 hours ago, Matt56 said:

Thats some interesting thoughts, thanks.  As I received it, the car did not come with the factory reverse light housings ... but you make a good point if I could get some at a reasonable price (but then the Australian registration number plate will require modification ...)

 

The amber one does clash.  Had considered a clear lense and amber bulb.  The amber color is essential as Aussies are not familiar with concept of red turn signal.

 

I also would like a round chrome bezel for each light.  Meaning to search the local '$2 shop' for something to improvise.

The ‘63 that I drive Down Under has the standard red turn signal. Have a look at the rules, you might be able to switch back to red. Note that in my original setup the brake light will become the turn signal, maybe there are other changes on yours such that you still have the brake light on the same side as your amber light is flashing.

[Matt56]

52 minutes ago, SwedeDownUnderR63 said:

The ‘63 that I drive Down Under has the standard red turn signal. Have a look at the rules, you might be able to switch back to red. Note that in my original setup the brake light will become the turn signal, maybe there are other changes on yours such that you still have the brake light on the same side as your amber light is flashing.

From legal perspective I believe you are totally correct.  I've just figured that red turn signals dont register as well with non car people here. 

 

As my car was converted back in the 60s (when amber was mandatory) its wiring will have been modified to separate out the turn signals - when the car was converted (this was well before someone removed the original tail lights) they screwed trailer amber turn signals to the rear bumper.

[EmTee]

What about three (six) white lenses with appropriately colored bulbs (LED or incandescent)?  That would clean-up the look while still allowing amber turn signals.  My wife's Allante' displays a similar styling approach...

 

[Dundee]

9 hours ago, Matt56 said:

From legal perspective I believe you are totally correct.  I've just figured that red turn signals dont register as well with non car people here. 

 

As my car was converted back in the 60s (when amber was mandatory) its wiring will have been modified to separate out the turn signals - when the car was converted (this was well before someone removed the original tail lights) they screwed trailer amber turn signals to the rear bumper.

Matt 

my conversion from similar time included a crude section of clear lens glued onto the red lens and split wiring for seperate lamps and extra hole drilled in housing. Going back to original set up  now. 
Dundee

[drhach]

Any issues with the steering and starter? 

[Dundee]

On 12/9/2022 at 10:12 AM, Matt56 said:

My experience (Victoria) has been that with history proving previous registration, re-registering a converted car has been standard process with a RWC only.  But it must have been previously registered with records to prove.

 

Your post prompted me to online chat with NSW transport, I can’t read the rego number in the 1980 label but they indicated vin should do it not withstanding all can be different when it actually happens. Road worthy, purchase receipt and chance of an inspection on the day?? Wonder Whether they would pick up on the tail light/ indicator changes if they know what was required back in 70,s??

They asked if there was any compliance certificate with car which there is not but expect there was something when It was registered so definitely got to go with the prior rego. 

Long way off yet..

[Matt56]

29 minutes ago, Dundee said:

Your post prompted me to online chat with NSW transport, I can’t read the rego number in the 1980 label but they indicated vin should do it not withstanding all can be different when it actually happens. Road worthy, purchase receipt and chance of an inspection on the day?? Wonder Whether they would pick up on the tail light/ indicator changes if they know what was required back in 70,s??

They asked if there was any compliance certificate with car which there is not but expect there was something when It was registered so definitely got to go with the prior rego. 

Long way off yet..

Old cars in Victoria were registered on the engine number (which fortunately for our cars is the same as the VIN).  So if having trouble locating an engine number search may do it.

[Matt56]

3 hours ago, drhach said:

Any issues with the steering and starter? 

Do you mean interference with engine conversion?  Steering definitely - required significant oil pan mods and a custom pick up.  Using a '95 era gear reduction small starter - it fits fine.

[Dundee]

49 minutes ago, Matt56 said:

Old cars in Victoria were registered on the engine number (which fortunately for our cars is the same as the VIN).  So if having trouble locating an engine number search may do it.

Already addressed that one in a previous post as the block stamp and vin plate are different by second last digit 2 for a 3??missed by ten! We think poor eyesight of the lad who whacked the block numbers in. Should add to the fun I am sure where common sense rarely prevails in government department 

[Matt56]

It runs, drives, steers and stops.  Small tidy up list to get through.

 

Ended up putting a mild 350 (SBC) in it.  The aluminum heads (port location) on the 400 made header fitment a problem (I set the headers up for OEM heads).  Using a near stock engine resolved my hood clearance issue also.  Fresh TH350 transmission seems to work (at least on my driveway).