Giorgio Ancona Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 Hi everybody. Today as I run my engine it starts a fire.I do not know the reason but it seems to be the carb( Stromberg WW 23-106B) is leaking it could be that the leak began after the fire or before ? After extinguishing I could see two heavy leaks (See pictures).Anybody had the same problem? I was lucky that the whole truck did not burn down. I need some help how to fix both leaking areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 Carb needs a rebuild. What type of fuel pump do you run? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 It looks like it runs over. Either the float is sunk, or the needle and seat is bad, or the fuel pressure is too high. The new needle and seat will come in a carburetor rebuild kit. While it is out, you can sink the float in hot almost boiling water and look for bubbles indicating a leak. No bubbles, no leak. This assumes a brass float. I don't think I have seen a plastic float in a Stromberg WW. If it is plastic it is probably responsible for this mess, so just replace it, preferably with a brass one if you can get it. High fuel pressure could to that too. Disable the ignition somehow so you don't get another fire, hook the fuel line right to a pressure gauge and crank. Pressure/Vacuum gauges are the ones usually used for this on carbureted cars because they can read fairly low pressure. You'll need to check the service manual for the fuel pressure. Offhand I think a Stromberg WW wants about 4-1/2 PSI, and probably nothing over 5 PSI. If you have 7 PSI, as a lot of replacement mechanical fuel pumps do these days, you'll either have to find a properly freshly rebuilt pump somewhere, or add a fuel regulator. Getting a pump with the right pressure is the best answer if you can do it. Regulators that actually work are expensive, and it is a bit of a kludgey fix, but some people find they have no choice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank DuVal Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 Vacuum all that dry chemical up and wash with soap and water as soon as you can. Very corrosive. But glad it worked!👍 Yes to carburetor flooding right now. Rebuild carburetor and check fuel pressure. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio Ancona Posted November 1, 2022 Author Share Posted November 1, 2022 Thanks for the answers and informations. I got a mechanical standard fuel pump name and fuel pressure unknown but its installed for 8 years minimum. The trottle shaft leak seems also a bid heavy. I cleaned the whole engine bay from the extinguisher powder , removed the carb and saw that the thermostat cover is deformed and cover gasket is damaged. Does anybody knows a shop which has this cover and gasket used or new? I ordered a carb rebuild kit for my WW 23-106B , I will disassemble the carb and clean it ultrasonic . Can anyone recommend a cleaning fluid? Do I have to take any special care during the disassemble and cleaning to avoid any mistakes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank DuVal Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 Throttle shaft leak is from the carburetor flooding. Unless you find the shaft is loose once you clean the parts, ignore it. Simple Green in water for the ultrasonic cleaner. Maybe carbking has a suggestion on finding the choke cover. Gasket should be in carburetor kit. Always watch for springs pushing balls out of holes, or balls and brass pointy things not spring propelled, note which hole things go into for reassembly. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 There's 2 of them in a Stromberg WW. One underneath the pump piston, and one under the triangular cover at the squirters. https://www.carburetor-blog.com/knowledge-base/checkball-placement-for-stromberg-ww-and-wwc/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio Ancona Posted November 2, 2022 Author Share Posted November 2, 2022 I will disassemble and rebuild the whole carb and see if there any obvious failures and post some pictures. Thanks a lot for all of your support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty Heaps Posted November 2, 2022 Share Posted November 2, 2022 If the fuel pressure is a bit high, you can adjust the float level a little lower giving it a little bit more resistance to overcome. I had the problem on one of my vehicles and was given this course of action from another site. No more flooding of fuel over the manifolds. I also just rebuilt that same carburetor, easy peasy. Good luck. I’m glad the fire was not any worse than it was. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio Ancona Posted November 3, 2022 Author Share Posted November 3, 2022 Thanks for the Info Rusty I will check the fuel pressure and if it's to high I will install an universal fuel pressure regulator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio Ancona Posted November 9, 2022 Author Share Posted November 9, 2022 I ordered an overhaul kit , fuel pressure gauge plus a pressure regulator to reduce the fuel pressure to 4 psi and start to disassemble the carb.Now there are coming up some questions .A ball fall down I think it could be the pump inlet check ball , a picture shows where I think it should be located. Is that correct that this carb has only two balls ( inlet and outlet check ball)?( some carb drawings show 6 balls ) The float assembly has some liquid in it , is that right and is it for damping reason or has the float body a leak? ( I check it under water but no air bubbles visible) How can I remove the metering jet and the main discharge nozzles, do I need a special tool? How can I remove both idle tubes without any damage, do I need a special tool? Hope somebody could answer my questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 I'd also replace those questionable fuel lines held together with zip ties. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 (edited) 2 balls, and those are the correct places. The big one goes under the accelerator pump plunger. The idle tubes aren't pressed in, they should fall out. There is a special double-d wrench to take the main jets out. It might be hard to get it all cleaned out without removing those, but they are easy to damage. If you can't find the correct tool I would probably leave them in rather than risk damaging them. Same for the power valve. The power valve tool is like a very precision straight sided screwdriver blade with a notch in the middle. If I remember correctly, the main discharge tubes are not removable. Blast every passage out with carb cleaner. Safety glasses would be good. These carbs will spray back at you while you are cleaning passages. Of course there is a risk of not getting all the crap out if you don't remove that stuff but you can probably get it good enough on that particular carburetor. Worst case, you have to take it back apart. The problem that caused it to run over with fuel wasn't any of that stuff. The float and the float valve (needle and seat) are the critical parts to keep the fuel from overflowing. Edited November 9, 2022 by Bloo (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldtech Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 Re the float. No there is NOT supposed to be any liquid in it. That is probably the last straw causing the flood. Replace it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 (edited) Sink it in hot water and look for bubbles (assuming it's brass). Edited November 9, 2022 by Bloo (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank DuVal Posted November 10, 2022 Share Posted November 10, 2022 (edited) 10 hours ago, Bloo said: Sink it in hot water and look for bubbles (assuming it's brass). This is an amazing test. Put hot (140° F or more) water in a container. Dunk the float and watch for the stream of bubbles. Cold water just doesn't do it. If you keep dunking it, you will get all the gas out. Mark the leak spot with a Sharpie. Then after a day or so of drying (you can use a heat gun too, just not hot enough to melt solder. If you can solder well, the small leak can bed soldered closed. But, if too much solder is used, the weight will be too much. A light touch. "The power valve tool is like a very precision straight sided screwdriver blade with a notch in the middle." I have made these from a slotted scrdewdriver that fit the slot very well, and then nicked the center of it with a thin grinding wheel (like Dremel). Edited November 10, 2022 by Frank DuVal (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio Ancona Posted November 10, 2022 Author Share Posted November 10, 2022 (edited) I will leave the main jet installed and clean the main carb body as good as I can. Would the main jets need an adjustment after Removal/Installation? The float is checked in hot water and it has two areas of leakage 🙄 . I left the float for a couple of minutes in the hot water but there is still fuel in. I read that some drill a small hole to drain the fuel but I want to avoid drilling. Any other Idea how to drain the fuel without drilling? Edited November 10, 2022 by Giorgio Ancona (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank DuVal Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 (edited) On 11/9/2022 at 11:56 PM, Frank DuVal said: If you keep dunking it, you will get all the gas out. Turn the float so the hole is on the bottom and let it blow out with repeated dunks into the hot water. Do this outdoors, or in garage of course.... You may have to dunk it in cool water if it stops spewing fuel out. Then back to the hot water bath. Edited November 11, 2022 by Frank DuVal (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 There is a small dot of solder all by itself on most floats. It's a hole. Open that with a soldering iron, and close it last with solder after repairing other leaks. When closing it, you'll need to cool one side of the float somehow as you solder the dot to keep it from blowing out. Having that hole open while you repair allows you to solder along the seam and elsewhere without getting blowouts from the hot air inside the float. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 (edited) On 11/9/2022 at 9:31 PM, Giorgio Ancona said: Would the main jets need an adjustment after Removal/Installation? No, they're just holes, but high precision so you don't want to go poking anything through there (just blast with brake cleaner). There is no harm taking them out if they come out easy, but they are usually badly stuck and there is a high risk of damaging them trying to remove them with the wrong tools. Replacements would be EXTREMELY hard to source. It's better to leave them in than risk damaging them with the wrong tools in my opinion. This is also true of the power valve, although it is usually a lot less stuck, and it is easier to find a tool or make one. Edited November 11, 2022 by Bloo (see edit history) 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank DuVal Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 12 hours ago, Bloo said: No, they're just holes, but high precision so you don't want to go poking anything through there (just blast with brake cleaner). I sometimes use soft copper wire along with cleaner. Soft copper will not damage the brass. I keep a selection of various gauges of copper wire around. Also handy for finding the size of the hole if needed (not for cleaning, but troubleshooting lean/rich conditions). Welding nozzle cleaners are NO NO! You will enlargen the holes, causing more issues.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 (edited) It is so easy to do damage. I saw a demonstration of this when I was in college. When you hand drill jets, it is almost impossible to get two of them to perform exactly the same. Also, a chamfer too small to see without a loupe can amount to a whole step in jet size. I advise caution. Of course if there is powdery corrosion growing in there you'll have to stick something through them, but there usually isn't. Using the butt end of a never-used-for-drilling drill bit of the correct matching size works, but be really careful! I have a whole set of tiny drills I keep around just for that, but I still cringe and prefer not to do it. Frank's soft copper idea sounds tempting, except I wonder if you could find the correct size. If they look OK and aren't all corroded up I vote for leaving them alone. Edited November 13, 2022 by Bloo (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pont35cpe Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 Something i haven`t seen before.. Ol Glory spark plug boots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank DuVal Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 On 11/11/2022 at 2:48 PM, Bloo said: Frank's soft copper idea sounds tempting, except I wonder if you could find the correct size. While the 61 to 80 drill bit sets are good for sizing jets, I use the copper wire that's smaller than the hole along with cleaner to remove the corrosion. Need room for the cleaner while moving the wire around. Most of the cleaning is in the ultrasonic bath these days. And then maybe some soda blasting. My old 5 gallon cans of Berryman's, etc. have gotten weak. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio Ancona Posted November 13, 2022 Author Share Posted November 13, 2022 (edited) Oh man this float drives me crazy to solder it is not so easy.I opened the solder dot on top of the float. I solder the sides checked it in hot water no leakage , after closing the top hole a checked it again small bubbles are comming out of the sides . I did this now six times everytime another area was leaking . After the last time there are only a one small bubble after bubble at one corner visible.I got the problem that the solder did not really get in contact with the brass.I cleaned and degreased it but no improvement.😪 So I stopped today and put the float in a glass filled up by gas and check if the gas will not enter the float. Carb is totally cleaned by ultrasonic and the jet pumps have no corrosion and look good , I do not remove them. I bought a fuel pressure regulator to reduce the fuel pressure to 4 PSI . The last problem ( except the hood 🤣 )is the deformed choke cap , I am still thinking on a easy solution. Edited November 13, 2022 by Giorgio Ancona (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 What is the correct fuel pressure according to the service manual? 4 PSI sounds a little high? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 If it still bubbles it still leaks.... You'll have to make it stop or get another float.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pont35cpe Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 Giorgio, has the front suspension been changed? Looks like some kind of rack and pinion going on there? I`m thinking that year of truck originally had a straight axle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldtech Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 I haven't checked but is getting a new float difficult? They can be aggravation to get repaired properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted November 14, 2022 Share Posted November 14, 2022 The Stromberg WW was used on a bunch of Chrysler products in the late 50s and 60s. I don't know for sure that the float is the same but it probably is. I suspect you could just buy one. Don't confuse the WW with the WW-C. The WW-C is a bigger carb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio Ancona Posted November 14, 2022 Author Share Posted November 14, 2022 The front suspention was changed to a Heidts Mustang II . I will solder it again 🙄 and try to close also this very small hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio Ancona Posted November 16, 2022 Author Share Posted November 16, 2022 (edited) On 11/13/2022 at 2:58 PM, Bloo said: If it still bubbles it still leaks.... You'll have to make it stop or get another float.... Float is now bubble free I disassemled the float halfs cleaned all edges and solder it again that helps. Edited November 16, 2022 by Giorgio Ancona (see edit history) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio Ancona Posted November 20, 2022 Author Share Posted November 20, 2022 Carb ultrasonic cleaned and received the overhaul kit. Started to complete the carb.Inside the kit is a daytona float valve ( flat). The Stromberg manual says adjust float level to 3/16 is this the correct for the daytona valve also? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank DuVal Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 Yes, float level is the same between needle/seat assemblies. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio Ancona Posted November 22, 2022 Author Share Posted November 22, 2022 Float is adjusted and Carb complete rebuild but I am struggeling with pump rod adjustment . The manual of the rebuild kit says measure the travel between fully closed and fully open and it should be 3/8 and if this don't match bend the pump rod. The travel measured is 5/8 ( 15mm ) and I can bend as much as I want I do not reach the 3/8 ( 9,5 mm) of travel. Is this the manual wrong or what did I wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank DuVal Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 Maybe I'm missing some data also, but if the lever three holes (screw , the fulcrum point, and the two holes for rods) stay the same distance, no bending of the rod will change the 5/8" measurement if the throttle bellcrank (where I assume the other end of the "bendable" rod goes also moves the same distance throttle fully open to fully closed. Type what the instructions say exactly for this step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio Ancona Posted November 23, 2022 Author Share Posted November 23, 2022 This is written : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldtech Posted November 23, 2022 Share Posted November 23, 2022 These instructions seem goofy. Bending the pump rod doesn't change the stroke. But yes, Stromberg gives this adjustment as "pump travel". What I would do is , if you can feel when the plunger hits the bottom - not compressing the spring, measure this point, then adjust for 5/8 above that with the throttle closed. Call it good 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank DuVal Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 I can see V.a. being an adjustment. Bending the pump rod makes that measurement B proper for a fully closed throttle plate. I do not get why they then ask you to bend the same rod to do adjustments V.b. and V.c. V.a and V.b are both measured at closed throttle, so how can it need two different bends to get both adjusted? Contradictory to me too. Where is Carbking when you need him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbking Posted November 25, 2022 Share Posted November 25, 2022 (edited) Typical generic instructions - "one size fits all and is correct for none"! The outer hole in the throttle arm should be used on GMC carbs, not the center hole. Nice job on the float, however new ones are available. Jon Edited November 25, 2022 by carbking (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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