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Heavy fire in the engine bay of my 1955 GMC truck


Giorgio Ancona

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Hi everybody.

Today as I run my engine it starts a fire.I do not know the reason but it seems to be the carb( Stromberg WW 23-106B) is leaking it could be that the leak began after the fire or before ?

After extinguishing I could see two heavy leaks (See pictures).Anybody had the same problem?

I was lucky that the whole truck did not burn down. I need some help how to fix both leaking areas. 

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It looks like it runs over. Either the float is sunk, or the needle and seat is bad, or the fuel pressure is too high.

 

The new needle and seat will come in a carburetor rebuild kit. While it is out, you can sink the float in hot almost boiling water and look for bubbles indicating a leak. No bubbles, no leak. This assumes a brass float. I don't think I have seen a plastic float in a Stromberg WW. If it is plastic it is probably responsible for this mess, so just replace it, preferably with a brass one if you can get it.

 

High fuel pressure could to that too. Disable the ignition somehow so you don't get another fire, hook the fuel line right to a pressure gauge and crank. Pressure/Vacuum gauges are the ones usually used for this on carbureted cars because they can read fairly low pressure. You'll need to check the service manual for the fuel pressure. Offhand I think a Stromberg WW wants about 4-1/2 PSI, and probably nothing over 5 PSI.

 

If you have 7 PSI, as a lot of replacement mechanical fuel pumps do these days, you'll either have to find a properly freshly rebuilt pump somewhere, or add a fuel regulator. Getting a pump with the right pressure is the best answer if you can do it. Regulators that actually work are expensive, and it is a bit of a kludgey fix, but some people find they have no choice.

 

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Vacuum all that dry chemical up and wash with soap and water as soon as you can. Very corrosive. But glad it worked!👍

 

Yes to carburetor flooding right now. Rebuild carburetor and check fuel pressure.

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Thanks for the answers and informations. I got a mechanical standard fuel pump name and fuel pressure unknown but its installed for 8 years minimum.

The trottle shaft leak seems also a bid heavy.

I cleaned the whole engine bay from the extinguisher powder , removed the carb and saw that the thermostat cover is deformed and cover gasket is damaged.

Does anybody knows a shop which has this cover and gasket used or new?

I ordered a carb rebuild kit for my WW 23-106B , I will disassemble the carb and clean it ultrasonic . Can anyone recommend a cleaning fluid?

Do I have to take any special care during the disassemble and cleaning to avoid any mistakes?

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Throttle shaft leak is from the carburetor flooding. Unless you find the shaft is loose once you clean the parts, ignore it. 

 

Simple Green in water for the ultrasonic cleaner.

 

Maybe carbking has a suggestion on finding the choke cover. Gasket should be in carburetor kit.

 

Always watch for springs pushing balls out of holes, or balls and brass pointy things not spring propelled, note which hole things go into for reassembly.

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If the fuel pressure is a bit high, you can adjust the float level a little lower giving it a little bit more resistance to overcome. I had the problem on one of my vehicles and was given this course of action from another site. No more flooding of fuel over the manifolds. I also just rebuilt that same carburetor, easy peasy. Good luck. I’m glad the fire was not any worse than it was.

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I ordered an overhaul kit , fuel pressure gauge plus a pressure regulator to reduce the fuel pressure to 4 psi

and start to disassemble  the carb.Now there are coming up some questions .A ball fall down I think it could be the pump inlet check ball ,

a picture shows where I think it should be located.

 

Is that correct that this carb has only two balls ( inlet and outlet check ball)?( some carb drawings  show 6 balls )

 

The float assembly  has some liquid in it , is that right and is it  for damping reason or has the float body a leak? ( I check it under water but no air  bubbles visible)

 

How can I remove the metering jet and the main discharge nozzles, do I need a special tool?

 

How can I remove both idle tubes without any damage, do I need a special tool?

 

Hope somebody could answer my questions.

 

Metering jets.jpg

Carb top view.jpg

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2 balls, and those are the correct places. The big one goes under the accelerator pump plunger. The idle tubes aren't pressed in, they should fall out. There is a special double-d wrench to take the main jets out. It might be hard to get it all cleaned out without removing those, but they are easy to damage. If you can't find the correct tool I would probably leave them in rather than risk damaging them. Same for the power valve. The power valve tool is like a very precision straight sided screwdriver blade with a notch in the middle. If I remember correctly, the main discharge tubes are not removable. Blast every passage out with carb cleaner. Safety glasses would be good. These carbs will spray back at you while you are cleaning passages.

 

Of course there is a risk of not getting all the crap out if you don't remove that stuff but you can probably get it good enough on that particular carburetor. Worst case, you have to take it back apart. The problem that caused it to run over with fuel wasn't any of that stuff. The float and the float valve (needle and seat) are the critical parts to keep the fuel from overflowing.

 

 

Edited by Bloo (see edit history)
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10 hours ago, Bloo said:

Sink it in hot water and look for bubbles (assuming it's brass).

This is an amazing test. Put hot (140° F  or more) water in a container. Dunk the float and watch for the stream of bubbles. Cold water just doesn't do it.

 

If you keep dunking it, you will get all the gas out. Mark the leak spot with a Sharpie.  Then after a day or so of drying (you can use a heat gun too, just not hot enough to melt solder. If you can solder well, the small leak can bed soldered closed. But, if too much solder is used, the weight will be too much. A light touch.

 

"The power valve tool is like a very precision straight sided screwdriver blade with a notch in the middle."

 

I have made these from a slotted scrdewdriver that fit the slot very well, and then nicked the center of it with a thin grinding wheel (like Dremel).

 

 

Edited by Frank DuVal (see edit history)
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I will leave the main jet installed and clean the main carb body as good as I can. Would the main jets need an adjustment after Removal/Installation?

The float is checked in hot water and it has two areas of leakage 🙄 . I left the float for a couple of minutes in the hot water but there is still fuel in.

I read that some drill a small hole to drain the fuel but I want to avoid drilling. Any other Idea how to drain the fuel without drilling?

 

Edited by Giorgio Ancona (see edit history)
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On 11/9/2022 at 11:56 PM, Frank DuVal said:

If you keep dunking it, you will get all the gas out.

Turn the float so the hole is on the bottom and let it blow out with repeated dunks into the hot water. Do this outdoors, or in garage of course....  You may have to dunk it in cool water if it stops spewing fuel out. Then back to the hot water bath.

Edited by Frank DuVal (see edit history)
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There is a small dot of solder all by itself on most floats. It's a hole. Open that with a soldering iron, and close it last with solder after repairing other leaks. When closing it, you'll need to cool one side of the float somehow as you solder the dot to keep it from blowing out. Having that hole open while you repair allows you to solder along the seam and elsewhere without getting blowouts from the hot air inside the float.

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On 11/9/2022 at 9:31 PM, Giorgio Ancona said:

Would the main jets need an adjustment after Removal/Installation?

No, they're just holes, but high precision so you don't want to go poking anything through there (just blast with brake cleaner). There is no harm taking them out if they come out easy, but they are usually badly stuck and there is a high risk of damaging them trying to remove them with the wrong tools. Replacements would be EXTREMELY hard to source. It's better to leave them in than risk damaging them with the wrong tools in my opinion. This is also true of the power valve, although it is usually a lot less stuck, and it is easier to find a tool or make one.

 

Edited by Bloo (see edit history)
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12 hours ago, Bloo said:

No, they're just holes, but high precision so you don't want to go poking anything through there (just blast with brake cleaner).

I sometimes use soft copper wire along with cleaner. Soft copper will not damage the brass. I keep a selection of various gauges of copper wire around.  Also handy for finding the size of the hole if needed (not for cleaning, but troubleshooting  lean/rich conditions). Welding nozzle cleaners are NO NO! You will enlargen the holes, causing more issues....

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It is so easy to do damage. I saw a demonstration of this when I was in college. When you hand drill jets, it is almost impossible to get two of them to perform exactly the same. Also, a chamfer too small to see without a loupe can amount to a whole step in jet size. I advise caution. Of course if there is powdery corrosion growing in there you'll have to stick something through them, but there usually isn't. Using the butt end of a never-used-for-drilling drill bit of the correct matching size works, but be really careful! I have a whole set of tiny drills I keep around just for that, but I still cringe and prefer not to do it. Frank's soft copper idea sounds tempting, except I wonder if you could find the correct size.

 

If they look OK and aren't all corroded up I vote for leaving them alone.

 

Edited by Bloo (see edit history)
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On 11/11/2022 at 2:48 PM, Bloo said:

Frank's soft copper idea sounds tempting, except I wonder if you could find the correct size.

While the 61 to 80 drill bit sets are good for sizing jets, I use the copper wire that's smaller than the hole along with cleaner to remove the corrosion. Need room for the cleaner while moving the wire around.;) Most of the cleaning is in the ultrasonic bath these days. And then maybe some soda blasting. My old 5 gallon cans of Berryman's, etc. have gotten weak.

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Oh man this float drives me crazy to solder it is not so easy.I opened the solder dot on top of the float.

I solder the sides checked it in hot water no leakage , after closing the top hole a checked it again small bubbles are comming out of the sides . I did this now six times everytime another area was leaking .

After the last time there are only a one small bubble after bubble at one corner  visible.I got the problem that the solder did not really get in contact with the brass.I cleaned and degreased it but no improvement.😪

 

So I stopped today and put the float in a glass filled up by gas and check if the gas will not enter the float.

Carb is totally cleaned by ultrasonic and the jet pumps have no corrosion and look good , I do not remove them. I bought a fuel pressure regulator to reduce the fuel pressure to 4 PSI .

 

The last problem ( except the hood 🤣 )is the deformed choke cap , I am still thinking on a easy  solution.

 

 

Hood.jpg

Edited by Giorgio Ancona (see edit history)
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The Stromberg WW was used on a bunch of Chrysler products in the late 50s and 60s. I don't know for sure that the float is the same but it probably is. I suspect you could just buy one. Don't confuse the WW with the WW-C. The WW-C is a bigger carb.

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Yes, float level is the same between needle/seat assemblies. 

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Float is adjusted and Carb complete rebuild but I am struggeling with pump rod adjustment .

The manual of the rebuild kit says measure the travel between fully closed and fully open and it should be 3/8 and if this don't match bend the pump rod.

 

The travel measured is 5/8 ( 15mm ) and I can bend as much as I want I do not reach the 3/8 ( 9,5 mm) of travel.

Is this the manual wrong or what did I wrong?

Throttle fully open.jpg

Throttle fully closed.jpg

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Maybe I'm missing some data also, but if the lever three holes (screw , the fulcrum point, and the two holes for rods) stay the same distance, no bending of the rod will change the 5/8" measurement if the throttle bellcrank (where I assume the other end of the "bendable" rod goes also moves the same distance throttle fully open to fully closed.

 

Type what the instructions say exactly for this step.

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These instructions seem goofy. Bending the pump rod doesn't change the stroke. But yes, Stromberg gives this adjustment as "pump travel".  What I would do is , if you can feel when the plunger hits the bottom - not compressing the spring, measure this point, then adjust  for 5/8 above that with the throttle closed.  Call it good

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I can see V.a. being an adjustment. Bending the pump rod makes that measurement B proper for a fully closed throttle plate. I do not get why they then ask you to bend the same rod to do adjustments V.b. and V.c.

 

V.a and V.b are both measured at closed throttle, so how can it need two different bends to get both adjusted? Contradictory to me too.

 

Where is Carbking when you need him?

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