cooling system draining and overheating -riviera 1966

[cquisuila]

hello

 

i sawn that my cooling system capacities on 1966 engine 425 is :

When i flush i recuper less and when i reflush i put only 10 liters .

Why ?

Is there a part of the water that remains inside the engine or the circuit ?🤒

[EmTee]

Did you remove the water jacket drain plugs on each side of the block?  If not, there will be some water left in the block.  It is also hard to remove the coolant from the heater core unless you disconnect the hoses and blow it out using compressed air.

 

If you flush the system with clear water and then let it drain through the lower radiator hose you should be able to add 2 gallons (8 quarts) of antifreeze and the result should be freeze protection to approximately -20* F (-29* C).

[cquisuila]

24 minutes ago, EmTee said:

Did you remove the water jacket drain plugs on each side of the block? 

IS it this ?:

If it is this parts i haven't removed.

 

> QUESTION ; if someone has the diameter and model it would be cool !

Edited October 19, 2022 by cquisuila (see edit history)

[EmTee]

No, there should be a small pipe plug near the center of the block above the oil pan rail on each side...

 

[EmTee]

This picture shows location...

 

[cquisuila]

ok

i will see this 2 bolts

thank you !!!

[telriv]

Be VERY CAREFUL using compressed air to blow out the heater core as you may now have to replace it. Don't want to give yourself any more work than what you have.

Clean the end of one of the hoses & use your mouth as the compressed air to be safe & blow through.

When removing the plugs on the lower side of the block many times nothing comes out as the hole is blocked with rust/debris. Use a screwdriver to "punch" threw the crud. Be careful as you  can get a coolant bath.

IF you have access to a tall lifting jack put it under the diff. in the middle of the pumpkin & jack as high as it will go. Normally you can get an extra quart or so out.

 

Tom T.

[cquisuila]

i think that i will just unscrew a less the bolts (one at least) and see how is the water how is the color of what flows

i think that my severals flushing have well washed the cooling system

[telriv]

More usually NOT the muck by the drain plugs.

[tenugent]

When I drained mine I used a shop vach for high volume air on top hose,if I remember right I got 22oz out of the drivers side and 44oz out of passengers.

[cquisuila]

6 hours ago, EmTee said:

If you flush the system with clear water and then let it drain through the lower radiator hose you should be able to add 2 gallons (8 quarts) of antifreeze

i put 8 - 9 liters  in my system so it is good !

 

so i don't touch to the plugs on the side of lower engine.

 

thank you all !!!!🙂

[Paul K.]

9 hours ago, cquisuila said:

IS it this ?:

If it is this parts i haven't removed.

 

> QUESTION ; if someone has the diameter and model it would be cool !

Adding a little "levity" here: If the photo you posted above is from your car, then it will be a coolant drain very soon! That part is one of your engine block core/freeze plugs and its looking rusty, weak and will begin to leak sooner than later. Depending on the access, a special tool may be required to install a new plug.

 

https://www.amazon.com/OTC-4603-Frost-Remover-Installer/dp/B000XSGKYO

Edited October 19, 2022 by Paul K. (see edit history)

[RivNut]

If you don't have room or the proper tools to insert new freeze plugs, you can always use the rubber kind that expand when you tighten the nut.

 

[cquisuila]

10 hours ago, Paul K. said:

Adding a little "levity" here: If the photo you posted above is from your car, then it will be a coolant drain very soon!

No

It is a picture i sawn on the web

[cquisuila]

bad new !

 

my engine is overheating🤔

 

i precise that i have cleaned my radiator

i have a new good ventilator original 6 pans with clutch

my thermostatic probe opens well

the water circulates through the heat core (enter exit)

the engine starts very well

i precise that the fan rotates clockwise blows air to motor

 

the only thing not realized is the small pipe plugs near the center of the block above the oil pan rail on each side ...is the reason to overheating ??

 

or the type of colling freeze not good ? << I use -25°C freeze standard

 

I despair😐

Edited June 26, 2023 by cquisuila (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

You need to define "overheating". Is the HOT light coming on? Check the sensor. Use a gauge or infrared thermometer to take an accurate temperature.

 

 

[cquisuila]

1 minute ago, 60FlatTop said:

You need to define "overheating". Is the HOT light coming on? Check the sensor. Use a gauge or infrared thermometer to take an accurate temperature.

 

 

the sensor is good (opens)

unfortunatly i haven't thermometer but it is warm

 

i precise that the fan rotates clockwise blows air to motor

[60FlatTop]

On my '64 Riviera the temperature sensor failed. The HOT light was off upon startup. Then in a few minutes it would show hot. I knew it was too soon. I bought a gauge to test it and tie wrapped to to the inner fender. The gauge always read fine when I opened the hood to check. One of these days I will have to declare that test complete and put a new sensor in. Ten or twelve years is probably enough time, maybe 15. Time flies.

[EmTee]

Is the coolant actually boiling, or is it just pushing coolant out of the overflow tube after the engine is shut off?  If it is the latter, verify that you are not overfilling the radiator.  The cold coolant level should be about 2 inches (5 cm) below the radiator cap (filler neck).  If filled above that point, the hot coolant will expand and be pushed out the overflow tube - that is normal.  If overfull, coolant will be pushed out until the correct level is established.  Park the car over clean cardboard or paper to check for coolant leaks.

[cquisuila]

i verify  and not coolant leaks...sure

 

yes :  the 5 cm is respected

 

all is sure is the top hose (radiator-motor) is hard when hot engine

so i think that the coolant is boiling

i haven't temperature sensor to mesurate the real Temperature of coolant

 

> i just remplaced the OLD coolant -20°C  by new -35°C + 128°C

QUANTITY : i put 10.5 qrts  so BuICK specifications are 18 qts

 

I WILL SEE °;;°

 

why this big difference ??  i haven't opened the 2 pipe plug side engine... so perhaps the old coolant exists always in this part of engine and the total remplacement is not made....SO HOT ENGINE perhaps....

Edited June 29, 2023 by cquisuila (see edit history)

[RivNut]

A hard hose is not an indicator of a boiling engine. As EmTee stated, heated water will expand even though it is not boiling. In a pressurized system water can exceed 100 C (212 F) and not boil.  Altitude makes a difference as well.  In higher altitudes it does not take as much heat for water to boil. Here in the states, water will boil at 194 F at 10,000 ft. 18 degrees cooler than at sea level.

[cquisuila]

32 minutes ago, RivNut said:

A hard hose is not an indicator of a boiling engine. As EmTee stated, heated water will expand even though it is not boiling. In a pressurized system water can exceed 100 C (212 F) and not boil.  Altitude makes a difference as well.  In higher altitudes it does not take as much heat for water to boil. Here in the states, water will boil at 194 F at 10,000 ft. 18 degrees cooler than at sea level.

A hard hose is an indicator to pressure in circuit

IF the hose cannot be pressed hot engine it is certainly a problem head gasket or cylinder head....:(

 

 

i just see that the drain plugs on both sides are important to drain the coolant and i have never done....

 

Edited June 29, 2023 by cquisuila (see edit history)

[RivNut]

Those drain plugs are at the bottom of the water jacket. The bottom radiator hose is quite a bit above that level.  To get all the old out, those drain plugs are your option.

Edited June 29, 2023 by RivNut
effing auto correct (see edit history)

[gungeey]

If you do get the parker plugs out without rounding them, I suggest replacing them with allens. Makes life a lot easier next time

[cquisuila]

Yes i removed this 2 plugs without problem 

I drained with clear water

And i will add good coolant after putting these 2 plugs back😃

 

I'll fill the circuit and turn on the heating

 

and i will give you some news

Edited June 30, 2023 by cquisuila (see edit history)

[EmTee]

I have found it good practice to drill a small hole (1/8 inch; 3 mm) in the thermostat flange.  That will provide a path for air to escape when filling the cooling system while the thermostat is closed.

 

 

Also, make sure that the thermostat housing bolts aren't bottoming-out in their holes.  If they are, they won't clamp the housing and gasket securely and the housing will leak.  Lastly, verify that the system holds pressure (15 psi; 100 kpa).  At that pressure the coolant boiling point for a 50/50 ethylene glycol/water solution should be about 240°F (115°C).

 

Edited June 30, 2023 by EmTee (see edit history)

[cquisuila]

4 minutes ago, EmTee said:

I have found it good practice to drill a small hole (1/8 inch; 3 mm) in the thermostat flange.  That will provide a path for air to escape when filling the cooling system while the thermostat is closed.

 

 

Also, make sure that the thermostat housing bolts aren't bottoming-out in their holes.  If they are, they won't clamp the housing and gasket securely and the housing will leak.  Lastly, verify that the system holds pressure (15 psi; 100 kpa).  At that pressure the coolant boiling point for a 50/50 ethylene glycol/water solution should be about 240°F (115°C).

 

yes you already told this little hole

[RivNut]

You might also consider installing drain cocks instead of plugs. Makes it easier to drain in the future.

 

[cquisuila]

38 minutes ago, RivNut said:

You might also consider installing drain cocks instead of plugs. Makes it easier to drain in the future.

 

diameter 1/4

head 7/16

[telriv]

The plugs on the sides of the block are 1/8th. inch NPT.

National pipe tap.

 

Tom T.

[telriv]

YES

[cquisuila]

On 10/19/2022 at 1:33 PM, EmTee said:

If you flush the system with clear water and then let it drain through the lower radiator hose you should be able to add 2 gallons (8 quarts) of antifreeze and the result should be freeze protection to approximately -20* F (-29* C).

You give 8 quarts and specifications are 18 quarts.

So where are the difference of 10 quarts ?🤔

 

Edited July 4, 2023 by cquisuila (see edit history)

[RivNut]

He’s referring to tha amount of water to drain to add antifreeze.

[EmTee]

I was saying that draining coolant from the lower radiator hose should allow for the addition of 2 gallons of antifreeze.  That would result in approximately a 50% solution (assuming first flushing with fresh water).  The remaining coolant that does not drain is likely trapped in the heater core and engine block.  Remove the water jacket drain plugs on either side of the engine block just above the oil pan rail to empty the engine block.

[cquisuila]

I remove this 2 water jacket drain plugs on either side of the engine block.

 

I let the engine idle for about 20 minutes

I did some back and forth in my garden and the needle oscillates above the middle

I think it's still hot🙄

Admittedly, I haven't done a real road test.

 

 

Edited August 2, 2023 by cquisuila (see edit history)

[cquisuila]

i moved my problem of engine overheat on a specific tuto!

Edited September 26, 2023 by cquisuila (see edit history)

[NTX5467]

The drain plugs on the side of the block are just for that, draining coolant, yet there can still be some residual coolant in the rear corners of the water jacket as the engines are usually tilted rearward when they are in the vehicle.  While they can "flow clean", there can still be residual sediment in those rear areas of the water jackets.  Which means that the only way to get that out is to remove the core plugs on the side of the block and flush things out completely.  A messy job for sure, but that's the only real way (on an older engine) that you can get things as clean as possible.  Just have new brass plugs to replace them.

 

IF you used a chemical flush product, it will remove rust and scale (to varying degrees).  On an engine block, no big deal.  On those core plugs and heater core, where the rust and scale accumulate, that accumulation can degrade the core surface and eat into it.  Removing that scale with chemicals also means that thinner metal results, as the rust will seal those areas until it is removed or eats through them.  A coolant-water mixture will find those weak areas quicker than plain water will, by observation.  So, best to get ahead of the situation by removing those side plugs and washing everything out, if possible.  If they have been changed, it will be obvious by their color.

 

Usually, the radiator will hold about 1/2 the volume of the total cooling system.  draining, flushing, and refilling with about 2 gallons of coolant (NOT 50-50 coolant, but non-diluted) will can usually result in coolant protection to -20 degrees F and possibly -34 degrees F.

 

When the engine is cold, the coolant level should be at the "COLD" level on a cross-flow radiator, which makes it look pretty empty.  As the engine temperature increases, the coolant level will rise as the heated coolant expands, such that when at or near operating temperature, the coolant level should be just below the filler neck on the radiator tank.  Any more will be pushed out of the overflow pipe.

 

Yes, when the coolant temp is at operating temperature, it will be pressurized to about 16psi, which makes the radiator hoses "hard" to the touch.  This is normal.

 

The infra-red "heat guns" are available in the US at discount places as "Harbor Freight".  There are two heat ranges, 500 degrees F and 1000 degrees F.  All have switches to read Centigrade, too.  Usually in the $35.00 USD range.  Possibly some places like that in Europe?

 

You can use these "point and shoot" temperature readers for many vehicle diagnostic things.  You can check the temperatures of the side of the engine block for temperature variations, plus the thermostat area to see when the thermostat opens, checking various parts of the radiator core for temperature variations, plus many other things.  A good diagnostic investment.  Can also be used around the house to look for heat escaping around windows in the winter, too.

 

In automotive diagnostics, the main thing you are looking for is unusual temperature variations, not only for specific temperatures.  For example, an over-heat issue can be because the bottom half of a cross-flow radiator can be clogged with sediment, although it looks normal looking down the filler neck opening.  The bottom part of the radiator core will be cold, as the upper section is hot, yet it is the bottom section air flow which the fan clutch "sees", which governs when the fan clutch works or does not work, so engine temp soars above 3/4 gauge as a result.

 

On the side of the engine block, the parts with good coolant flow will approximate coolant temperature as those parts with lessened flow will be a good bit hotter in comparison.

 

ONE word of caution . . . do NOT open the radiator cap on an engine where the radiator hoses are "hard", meaning the system is pressurized.  ONLY do that after the engine is cooled and the hoses can be easily compressed (as in "no pressure).

 

Take care,

NTX5467

[NTX5467]

On the block flushing, one time in my younger and inquisitive days, I decided to see if I could get a better flush by removing the thermostat and thermostat housing, to use that location to introduce the flush water into, directly into the block that way, using the lower radiator hose for the drain.  I then also put the fresh coolant in through there, too.

 

Remember, too, that the water pump level is pretty much 1/2 up the engine, so that much coolant remains when the radiator or lower radiator hose stops draining.

 

End result, I got only the normal amount of coolant in the system for a good bit of additional work.  I might have gotten a better flush that way, but little else.  End result, last time I did that.  For the record, this was on my '77 Camaro 305 which I bought new and maintained the coolant level/protection at least to factory specs.

 

Just some thoughts and experiences,

NTX5467