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C-4 behind y-block ??


rockinrebel
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13 minutes ago, rockinrebel said:

hello. brand new here..73yo fart..

Just buying a  54 Ford vicky, but it is standard and I can no longer drive one..Need auto..what way to fit a c-4??

 

thanks, Lloyd in Abbotsford BC, Canada

I thought you meant c-4 explosive, thought you wanted to blow it up,sorry.

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49 minutes ago, Oldtech said:

Is it the flathead ( Canadian) or US

The original poster, described it as a 54 Y- Block. That is NOT the Flathead engine.

 

Y-Block is the standard name for the 1954 Ford V-8

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 Lots of work and expensive adapter to fit C4 to Y block. The Fordamatic behind Y blocks was a Borg Warner outfit I believe.

 Probably easier to install a FE engine with C4 or C6 than couple a C4 to a Y block.

  Then again, it’s been 45-50 years since I was fooling with the swap. Maybe someone has simplified it.

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Since these cars could be equipped with an automatic when new, installing an original rebuilt unit would be the easiest course. That would also keep the car original. Dropping in a 302 with an AOD would make for a great driver, but would make the car a hot rod. Then would end up adding better brakes and a beefed rear end. 

I can understand needing to go the auto route. I would find an original engine/transmission and make that swap. Good luck.

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Google is your friend.

 

There are several companies selling adapter plates to mate a Y-block with the Ford AOD overdrive automatic. Doesn't the AOD use the same bellhousing bolt pattern as the C4? Also adapters to mate the Y-block to a Chevy-pattern GM trans.

 

http://www.secondchancegarage.com/public/277.cfm

https://transmissionadapters.com/products/ford-y-block-to-ford-aod

https://transmissionadapters.com/products/ford-239-y-block-to-chevy-automatic-transmission

https://shop.bowlertransmissions.com/products/ford-y-block-to-gm-automatic-transmission

https://transmissioncenter.net/shop/adapter-to-install-an-aod-transmission-on-a-ford-y-block-motor-fo301/

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Save yourself a lot of time and money, and buy a car that has an automatic. You could spend thousands getting that car changed to an automatic and it will still be a hodge podge. It's not like they are rare, plenty of fifties cars came with auto trans.

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8 hours ago, joe_padavano said:

Doesn't the AOD use the same bellhousing bolt pattern as the C4?

It's complicated. The short answer is that the bellhousing comes off of the C4 making aftermarket bellhousings possible, while the AOD is cast integral leaving you to adapt with a plate at the engine flange like you would probably have to do with most GM or Chrysler automatics.

 

C4's bellhousing was cast up in a version to fit the early 60s 221-260-289 "5 bolt" engine and also a version to fit the later 289-302-351w engine everyone is familiar with, (and also a version for some 6 cylinders?) Those are probably the only ones. AOD with it's integral bellhousing would have been cast in a 289-302-351w version and a 6 cylinder version I am fairly sure. I don't know offhand what else they might have cast.

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45 minutes ago, Bloo said:

It's complicated. The short answer is that the bellhousing comes off of the C4 making aftermarket bellhousings possible, while the AOD is cast integral leaving you to adapt with a plate at the engine flange like you would probably have to do with most GM or Chrysler automatics.

The Y-block to AOD adapters I provided links for are plate-style. If the bellhousing bolt pattern is the same, you can use the original C4 bellhousing. The fact that it unbolts doesn't mean that it has to.

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1 hour ago, Bloo said:

True enough, but it opens up more (and cleaner) possibilities when the bellhousing comes off.

 

Sure, so long as someone makes the adapter bell. That one you posted seem to be the only one on the market, and the fact that they are playing the "call for pricing" game suggests that they think pretty highly of it.

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When I see a question like this I get the feeling the OP expects someone to say it is easy, you can bolt in another transmission in a couple of hours for a few hundred bucks. If so he is living in a dream world. A good fabricator or hot rod shop could do this but it would not be easy or cheap. Expect to have the car off the road for weeks and to pay many thousands of $$$$ and it would still be a gamble how well it worked.  For certain technical reasons the old flathead is not compatible with a newer auto.

Far better and cheaper to buy a car with an automatic.

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1 hour ago, Rusty_OToole said:

For certain technical reasons the old flathead is not compatible with a newer auto.

No Flathead in this question! By 1954 all Ford engines were overhead valves, including the sixes.👍

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Not in Canada, they had the flathead one more year..... I thought we had sorted this out earlier in the thread but.....

 

On 8/1/2022 at 9:04 PM, Oldtech said:

Is it the flathead ( Canadian) or US

 

23 hours ago, intimeold said:

The original poster, described it as a 54 Y- Block. That is NOT the Flathead engine.

 

Y-Block is the standard name for the 1954 Ford V-8

 

Except he didn't. I just went back and re-read it. The post is not marked as edited, so I don't think he changed it.

 

On 8/1/2022 at 3:55 PM, rockinrebel said:

hello. brand new here..73yo fart..

Just buying a  54 Ford vicky, but it is standard and I can no longer drive one..Need auto..what way to fit a c-4??

 

thanks, Lloyd in Abbotsford BC, Canada

 

Furthermore, @rockinrebel is in Canada. I think he is going to have to sort out this detail for us.

 

 

Edited by Bloo (see edit history)
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Thanks Bloo

 

Years ago I read an article on putting a C4 trans on a flathead Ford. It was a pretty complicated job. Among other things, it needed a custom torque converter because the flathead's power characteristics were not compatible with one made for an OHV engine.

Ford did make a flathead V8 with an automatic in 1953 and possibly earlier, I had one back in the seventies.

Edited by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)
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11 hours ago, Rusty_OToole said:

For certain technical reasons the old flathead is not compatible with a newer auto.

Obviously a Y-block isn't a flathead, but for my own education I'd be interested in understanding what these "technical reasons" are, since people have been doing it for decades.

 

img_2946_27f66a02bb978e9f3ee73ec51410446

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The flathead was being mated to a trans made for a 289 or 302 Ford V8. The flathead was lower in HP and developed its power at a lower RPM. This meant it needed a different torque converter and possibly different gearing to work its best. I'm not saying any old tranny won't work just that it is not ideal.

This in addition to adapting the transmission to the engine and drive train.

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16 minutes ago, Rusty_OToole said:

The flathead was being mated to a trans made for a 289 or 302 Ford V8. The flathead was lower in HP and developed its power at a lower RPM. This meant it needed a different torque converter and possibly different gearing to work its best. I'm not saying any old tranny won't work just that it is not ideal.

This in addition to adapting the transmission to the engine and drive train.

Optimizing shift points and stall speed is necessary for any transmission swapping. That's a lot different than "not compatible". The gear ratios in the three speed manual behind the flathead were typically 2.8 first, 1.

6 second, and 1:1 third. The C4 has 2.46 first, 1.46 second, and 1:1 third. The torque multiplication that comes from a modern torque converter should make up the difference in the lower gears.

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6 hours ago, joe_padavano said:

Optimizing shift points and stall speed is necessary for any transmission swapping. That's a lot different than "not compatible". The gear ratios in the three speed manual behind the flathead were typically 2.8 first, 1.

6 second, and 1:1 third. The C4 has 2.46 first, 1.46 second, and 1:1 third. The torque multiplication that comes from a modern torque converter should make up the difference in the lower gears.

Quite so. The right torque converter makes a difference.

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