Brass Era Mystery Car

[EWF]

Is the ‘S’ for Simplex? Stutz? I can’t tell. 

[Layden B]

Try Speedwell.

[Walt G]

Not Simplex , radiator shell isn't correct shape and at that era most likely they were chain drive. A close friend had the legal paperwork to have the right to build cars under the Simplex name. He got that done in the 1950s he liked the cars so much. His name was Henry Austin Clark Jr.

Edited May 11, 2022 by Walt G (see edit history)

[keiser31]

Maybe Sheridan....here is a hub cap from one with the olde English 'S'....I know....the hub caps don't match, but....

Edited May 11, 2022 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[EWF]

The ‘S’ is similar. I’ll look into it. Thanks!

 

[AHa]

Staver Chicago used an S on the gas tank of their race cars. The chassis is wrong for the early cars but I believe they made a 13/14 that was different.

 

Actually, the rear spring setup suggests Stoddard Dayton.

Edited May 12, 2022 by AHa (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

Not Staver. Layden may have it with Speedwell, but it looks smaller than what I would expect. Very elegant ! The pitman arm is quite unusual, and the fully boxed frame is highly unusual. And very deep hubcaps. Once again quite unusual.

 Early Mercer with a bunch of owner modifications ?

Otto automobile with some modifications ? Similar rad setback to an Otto, but not the correct shape. A modified radiator ?

Edited May 12, 2022 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

Judging by all the carriage bolts or rivets along the frame I think the frame channel probably has a wood filler and possibly a metal inner closing piece. I doubt this is something a production car would feature. A one off modification ?

[EWF]

THANK YOU all for your helpful comments. I consulted one expert who thought the chassis (especially the forged, curved rear spring shackle mounts) resembled a Simplex 38, which was a rare non-chain drive model, but also thought that the car was a one-off special and not a production car.

 

The only other information I have is that the pictures were taken in Waynesboro, Pennsylvania. I'm hoping someone at the historical society there will recognize the neighborhood, and maybe have a guess about the driver. Unfortunately, the PA D.M.V. does not keep old auto registrations.

 

I'll post anything I learn about this car. And again, thank you all for sharing your suggestions.

 

 

Edited May 12, 2022 by EWF (see edit history)

[modela28]

The radiator does not look like Stoddard Dayton or Speedwell.

 

[EWF]

The headlights on the Stoddard Dayton are similar, though. I think this car is a one-off.

 

[keiser31]

The radiator looks fabricated by the owner and not stock. Everything above the chassis looks handmade or custom  to me.

Edited May 13, 2022 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

3 hours ago, EWF said:

The headlights on the Stoddard Dayton are similar, though. I think this car is a one-off.

 

 

I believe those are Solar brand headlights , circa 1908 - 1910.    Decent quality lights but fitted to many different makes.

[nzcarnerd]

Could the S be the owner's initial rather than the car make?

[AHa]

I'm racking my brain trying to figure out how that frame would have been constructed in 14/15. A boxed frame is usually created  by using U channel and welding. Did they have welders back then?

[1912Staver]

I think it is a regular channel frame with a wood insert. And then the inner closing piece is either carriage bolted or riveted in place. Notice all the rounded  bolt or rivet heads visible on the outside of the frame. I think some European race cars around this time used a similar technique.

 

There is a lot about this car that resembles the first Mercers , but a number of things are not right. There were a few " Sharp Arrow ' cars built that evolved into the Mercer for series production . Could this be one of them, possibly owner modified to some degree ?

Edited May 13, 2022 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[Gunsmoke]

My guess is that the frames are made with an outer steel C channel and an inner C channel, sized slightly smaller to allow it to slide into the outer channel. Then rather than weld the assembly, numerous bolts complete the job. I don't understand why any builder would put wood in such an enclosed package as it would no doubt get wet and rot. Don't know if any companies used such an approach. A friend had a car trailer built 10 years ago with heavy 3" aluminum C channel side rails, but they turned out to be too weak, and flexed when any significant weight was put on them. To remedy that, I suggested he buy similar aluminum C channels in a size suitable to slide in the outer C, and bolt it all together as a boxed section. The addition doubled the stiffness and it now works well. 

[AHa]

The problem with these theories is there are no visible joints. Look at the rear of the frame. It appears as though there is one piece construction on the corner. Typically you could see where the back cross member crosses the side member but not in this case. If C channel were placed inside C channel, the top and bottom joint would be visible but no joints are visible.

 

The car appears to be a 1914 or 1915. Look at the hood hold downs. That style didn't appear till that time period. The rear suspension is unique to very few cars. It is the reason I suggested Stoddard Dayton for the chassis. I believe it is one of the few makes that used that platform style of suspension.

 

Notice there is no radiator neck visible.

[1912Staver]

I think it is an older car , 1910 era. Possibly the modifications were done in circa 1914 . That would account for what would have been brand new hood hold downs.

 The front frame crossmember on my Packard truck is made in a similar manner to what I am suggesting for this cars frame. Except both the inner and outer layer are steel plate rather than one channel and one plain plate. Wood sandwiched by steel and quite a few through rivets. Steel  gave it strength and the wood gave the crossmember some strength plus a bit of give if the truck was pushing against something. I think the wood filler on this car would be intended to make a lighter duty , perhaps 30 H.P. car , stiff enough for racing. 

Edited May 13, 2022 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[edinmass]

Looks like a very good build, attention to detail, probably a one off………and I would expect more than 30hp. Neat photos.

[1912Staver]

I suppose it could be a 40 H.P. just as easily as a 30 or 35 H.P.. But judging from the photo with the seated driver, it does not look like a particularly large car to me.