We acquired an Oakland with a "little" work.

[Laughing Coyote]

Them are some steeeeeeep stairs.  Good idea on the railing.  

[Sloth]

Hello, I started this morning at 6 o'clock with the back cushion.  The reason is that I could not finish the seat cushions, because for no apparent reason the new rotating scuttle broke. Well, I got what I paid for (not much that is). I ordered a new one at an German dealer, costing 4 times more than the Far East one..... But this dealer guarantees his products, he assured me that is made in Germany. I made the templates 2 weeks ago, so that helped a lot to get started. Looking at the pictures the cushion looks awful, but I fitted it temporarily to the seat bucket to see if my measurements are correct, it looks much better even its not stretched and nailed to the wood. (the measurement are correct😉) When I nail the cushion to the wooden seat bucket the gaps between the buttons close them self. The cushion has no stitched folds, just stuffed and the seams are folding them self.

 

 

 

 

 It took the whole day till 4 pm,to stuff the cushion (having sore hands and shoulders now). I suppose those upholstery men in earlier times were strong, and maybe slightly younger that me 😄. I used quite a collection of home made wooden sticks for the stuffing, some of those pipes are 15".

Regards,

Harm

Edited February 6, 2022 by Sloth (see edit history)

[Sloth]

This morning I started fitting the back cushion into the seat bucket. This became quickly very time consuming activity, measure twice and tack ones, then stuff it 😉. I use the air tacker for fixing the cloth at the wood, and use 1/2" blue upholstery tacks for fastening the leather. I hammer them down about 3/4, if some adjustment is needed (very often), I can remove them easily. On the top and bottom end the cloth and the leather are not fastened to each other, this makes stuffing very easy. Fastening the lower part of the leather slab to the bucket is a bit difficult, not much space for using the hammer. I use two 8 and 10" long pieces of 8mm steel bar and the hammer to hammer the tacks down.

 

Picture of the passengers seat.

 

I put the not finished seat into the bucket, just for test fitting (and getting some extra motivation 😉) . The part of back cushion on the right side needs more stuffing. The seat fits remarkably well, but can use here and there some extra stuffing. The same applies for the back cushion. Planning for tomorrow: completing the back cushion and starting with the drivers side.

Regards,

Harm

[alsfarms]

Nice....

[Mike "Hubbie" Stearns]

Looking good!

[Terry Harper]

Harm,

Simply fantastic! 

[edinmass]

I just found this thread.....great car, fantastic work. Keep it up, looking forward to the first drive video. Best, Ed.

[Sloth]

Hello,

I am sorry for not reporting  earlier, but during the last weeks a lot has happened. About three weeks ago the greater part of Europe was tormented   by 2 heavy storms and one very heavy storm. These 3 storms happened within 7 days.  The result for the Netherlands: damage worth M€600,- and 5 people lost their life's by falling threes. 

We had some damage at the farm, 2 threes came down, lots of branches went down, some roof tiles came down and Ann's greenhouse with all what was in it, was destroyed. So this year no home grown tomatoes etc.

It took Ann and me two weeks to remove the fallen trees and branches. We ordered new roof tiles, but we are not the only one, so that will take some time.

 

An old prune tree lost two branches.

 

What was left of Ann's green house.

 

Oakland progress:

The sewing machine is up and running again. The back cushions of the driver and passenger seats are done. I started with the back cushion of the rear seat. The cushion slab is 9 feet long (see picture) and when stuffed with horse hair it is remarkable heavy. Last Saturday I made the patterns, and cut the  canvas and leather. Monday I started stuffing the slab with horse hair, but due to its size it is not easy to manipulate. It took me two days to stuff it, before I was happy with the result. Yesterday Ann and I put the stuffed slab into the bucket seat.

 

Part of the original leather of the back seat cushion (for some unknown reason it turned out brown at this picture but its real color is black...)

The small white spots  are holes caused by moths, there are lots of them..... The leather is quite fragile.

 

New slab, up side down with all the buttons installed, ready for stuffing.

 

Just another view of the slab.

 

Regards,

Harm

Edited March 3, 2022 by Sloth (see edit history)

[Jeff Perkins / Mn]

Thumbs up for the progress on the car ……….so sorry to hear of all the storm damage and loss of life. As to  the loss of your greenhouse , guess you will have to support the local farmer’s markets come harvest time. 
Best Wishes to you and Ann, Jeff P.

Edited March 3, 2022 by Jeff Perkins / Mn (see edit history)

[alsfarms]

Hello Harm,  I didn't think you would get the real bad winds in your area.  Where I live we are just getting to wind season.  I hope for no damage this year!  That is sad for your damage.  I do notice that your season is ahead of ours, no green here yet as you yard shows.  I am certainly impressed at your skills for trimming your seats with new leather!

Al

[Sloth]

After my last post about the rear seat back cushion, I completed the installation the stuffed slab. Adjusting and stuffing continued for 2 days, all folds neatly closed. Tuesday evening I finished the job, proud of myself and the job done. When I got in the shop the next day, the some folds opened up. Oh well, some adjustment and a bit of horse hair will take care of that. No way, that those folds would close again, instead more folds opened up 😖. During the stuffing I felt some springs had taken an awkward position behind the cushion.

 

The rear seat back cushion, just finish the underside and it is done.🤪

 

Detail picture of the arm rest and corner.

 

Late afternoon I decided to rip it all out, and take a close look what was the cause of it. Well, after taking out the slab, I saw that the seven springs (which are behind the slab) lost their position. Five out of seven worked lose (broken strings and lose staples). When I removed the old leather slab I considered the staples and strings as OK, and took it for granted 😏. (What was I thinking at that moment 🙃?) Long story short, I removed all springs and lose hardware, and replaced the old springs with new staples and strings. Now, it can serve another 100 years or so.

 

All new and sturdy. The white stuff are Dacron pads replacing the old cotton wool pads.

 

This afternoon, I started again with putting the slab into the seat bucket. Tacked a few pipes to the wood, but was very tired of the whole affair so called it a day.

I still use blue tacks, hammer them three quarts in. After everything is OK, I hammer them down. It has the advantage, that I can easily remove them. Using a air pressured stapler, the staples are very hard to remove, making adjustments much more difficult.

 

Regards,

Harm

Edited May 26, 2022 by Sloth (see edit history)

[alsfarms]

Hello Harm,

What a learning curve.  I would sure like to catch up with you!

Al

[Sloth]

Hello again,

@Al: yes, its quite a learning curve, but a very rewarding one it is.

 

Last weeks I spend not much (no) time on the Oakland. Instead we rebuild Ann's greenhouse. After the storm we were left with the remains of a wrecked greenhouse, ready for the old iron dumpster. But after close inspection, we decided to give it a try, so Ann carefully disassembled the  wreckage. Most of the aluminum profiles were twisted and bend. It took me 3 days to untwist and unbend the profiles. During the process 2 outer profiles broke, I repaired them with aluminum profiles and rivets. We made a new foundation, and rebuild the greenhouse. Al the isolated plastic glazing is now fixed by aluminum slats (outside and inside) and lot of bolts and nuts. Its not as straight as it was, but its now a lot sturdier. I must say, there is really a lot of labor involved, but Ann is very happy with it, an therefore am I...😄.

 

The wrecked greenhouse.

 

The rebuild greenhouse.

 

The Oakland

Upholstery

Today I completed the back cushion of the rear passengers seat. After removing it and reinstalling the springs, the folds are looking a lot better. Some upper pipes need a bit more stuffing, but on the whole I am much happier with it. I think I leave it alone for some days to settle. During some occasional rainy days last weeks I prepared the seat cushion of the rear seat. This afternoon I started stuffing it, can't do it for more than a few hours because of sore hands... Hope to continue tomorrow.

 

Rear back cushion whit the 'old' worn out seat.

 

Back seat cushion in the making.

 

Clutch business

After joining HCFI, I found a lot of information about early Oaklands. 1908, 1909, 1911 and so on. But not much of the 1910 model 40. But I could download an User Manual (I have an original but this one gave me some extra information). It mentioned that the clutch is:

Composed of bronze and steel disks  running in oil. Extended through each bronze ring are twelve half inch openings, these openings contain a small quantity of oil, and keep a film of oil when the clutch is engaged. After cleaning, a pint of 600-W steam-cylinder oil must be put in.

Well, so no corks at all. Gentlemen I have a question to you, as 600-W steam cylinder oil is heavy and quite tacky, I have my doubts about it. But what do you think about this, any advice?

Furthermore, I removed all the corks on the 'spare' bronze plates and assembled the clutch stack, I must say, without the corks the stack fitted perfectly into the clutch drum (3/4" left to the edge of the drum). With some of the the corks in the holes and protruding 1/16" on each side (just for measurement purposes) the disk stack is flush with the drum end, I don't like that at all. Please be so kind to advice me.

 

Regards,

Harm

 

 

Edited April 4, 2022 by Sloth
added pictures (see edit history)

[JV Puleo]

We have to presume it worked when it was new so I'd go with the steam cylinder oil like they recommended.

[Sloth]

Hello,

Yesterday I cleaned the front axle, and discovered that the (substantial) front axle of our 1910 Oakland model K, is made of bronze. Never knew that bronze was used for front axles, so today I spent some time with my books. I could not find anything about it, they all mention steel of some sorts but not bronze. Is this an unique feature of Oakland, or are there other brands of cars with bronze front axles? What was the reason to use bronze and not the much cheaper, and maybe stronger steel? I must admit, I hesitate to paint it black again, the bronze looks wonderful.

Regards,

Harm

 

[JV Puleo]

It's not unique but fairly rare. Autocar also used it on some of their automobiles...before they went over completely to trucks. I suspect it's a reflection of how few of these were built since the only reason for making them was that they were cheaper than forged iron or steel axles if the cost of the forging dies had to be amortized. It really wasn't a good idea as the bronze axles were too soft but, given we will rarely have to use the sort of roads that were commonplace in 1910, it should be fine today. Obviously, yours has lasted more than 100 years!

Edited April 17, 2022 by JV Puleo (see edit history)

[Terry Harper]

Hello Harm,

I wonder what alloy the bronze is? I have a crankcase that is manganese bronze which was used in that application because it has considerable more torsional strength than cast iron or aluminum. Neat detail!

[Sloth]

On 4/17/2022 at 8:57 PM, Terry Harper said:

Hello Harm,

I wonder what alloy the bronze is? I have a crankcase that is manganese bronze which was used in that application because it has considerable more torsional strength than cast iron or aluminum. Neat detail!

Hello Terry,

I really like to know what alloy of bronze it is, but....  I asked a commercial test lab what such a test would cost, I got a quotation of $470,- 🙄.

Do you know if there is a simple test to see what alloy of bronze it is? I have some pieces of bronze alloys, most of them are more red(ish), the axle bronze is brass yellow.

Regards,

Harm

[alsfarms]

hmmmm....

I had the understanding that the more redish, it would lean toward the stronger bronze variety and the more yellowish the more it leaned towards brass.  Could you post a picture for us to see of your cleaned up axle?

Al

[Terry Harper]

3 hours ago, Sloth said:

Hello Terry,

I really like to know what alloy of bronze it is, but....  I asked a commercial test lab what such a test would cost, I got a quotation of $470,- 🙄.

Do you know if there is a simple test to see what alloy of bronze it is? I have some pieces of bronze alloys, most of them are more red(ish), the axle bronze is brass yellow.

Regards,

Harm

Hello Harm,

No easy way to tell. My Manganese Bronze crankcase is very much yellow. There was very little tarnish but that could be from the grease and oil it was caked with. The lifter guides are a bearing bronze - probably close to 660 and they are indeed red(ish) by comparison.

 

[JV Puleo]

On 4/22/2022 at 2:43 PM, alsfarms said:

hmmmm....

I had the understanding that the more redish, it would lean toward the stronger bronze variety and the more yellowish the more it leaned towards brass.  Could you post a picture for us to see of your cleaned up axle?

Al

The red color comes from the copper. In the 18th century, long before the advent of electrical wiring, copper was relatively cheap while zinc and tin were more expensive. Much was made of so-called "red brass" which was distinguished only by having a minimal amount of zinc or tin in it. "Gunmetal" — the bronze alloy developed for the Royal Navy is quite yellow despite the fact that it was especially made to stand enormous pressure as artillery. I suspect what we call "Naval brass", which is really a bronze alloy, is the same stuff.

[Sloth]

On 4/22/2022 at 8:43 PM, alsfarms said:

hmmmm....

I had the understanding that the more redish, it would lean toward the stronger bronze variety and the more yellowish the more it leaned towards brass.  Could you post a picture for us to see of your cleaned up axle?

Al

Hello Al,

Below are 2 pictures of the front axle, as you can see its a yellow colored bronze.

 

 

First I used no. 800 water proof sand paper, that didn't do much. The bronze seems quite hard, so I went to use Scotch Brite (purple). That polished the bronze nicely.

Regards,

Harm

 

[Sloth]

On 4/23/2022 at 12:42 AM, Terry Harper said:

Hello Harm,

No easy way to tell. My Manganese Bronze crankcase is very much yellow. There was very little tarnish but that could be from the grease and oil it was caked with. The lifter guides are a bearing bronze - probably close to 660 and they are indeed red(ish) by comparison.

 

Hello Terry,

I guess its indeed manganese bronze as the color is very yellow. Of all the different bronze left over pieces I have, the axle is the most yellow of all. Looking to the characteristics of manganese bronze, its a very capable metal for this front axle but also very expensive  (may be not in 1910?).

Regards,

Harm

 

[Sloth]

Hello,

At last I have collected all de parts needed for restoring the clutch.

From L to R: Clutch drum with destroyed shaft, A lump of 42CrMo4 steel, 6 newly made clutch steel disks,

5 cleaned bronze clutch disks, clutch sleeve, 2 bronze shims, some leather pieces who where pressed into the

bronze disks. First I thought they were made of cork, but at closer inspection they are made of leather.

They don't belong in the clutch disks at all, so I wonder when they were put into the disks. The manual shows no

small cork or leather disks into the bronze clutch disks.

 

All stacked neatly onto the clutch sleeve.

 

 

Yesterday I removed the flange with shaft from the clutch drum. I will make a new one from the lump of 42CrMo4 steel.

 

This afternoon I started with turning the steel, as it is a heavy piece of steel (about 70 Lbs) it took me quite some

time and effort to have it centered. Started turning with a carbide lathe tool with a low RPM, I first removed the very

hard mill scale.

As 70 % of the steel has to be removed, it will take some time. Well the coming days, every day a few hours and it will be ready😉.

Regards,

Harm

 

 

Edited May 26, 2022 by Sloth
Added lost sentence (see edit history)

[alsfarms]

Your front axle looks the same as the Locomobile manganese bronze crank case.  That will be a nice touch to show on the front of your Oakland.

Al

[Jeff Perkins / Mn]

I admire your machining skills (as I do others on this forum), skills I do not possess. Thank you all for taking the time to photograph and post your efforts. Very impressive and entertaining.

[Sloth]

Hello, sorry for the delay in reporting, to many odd jobs around the farm. Last week the thatchers started mending the roof of the farm. The west side was long over due, but after waiting for 2 years (due to Covid-19), at last they started. I hope they will finish the roof next week.

 

In between I continued with turning the clutch outer drum shaft. After completing the clutch etc. shaft, I started with the clutch gear. Its a bit complicated. First tuning down the teeth of the 'large side' of the gear (5/64") and after that turning down the teeth of the 'small side' of the gear (- 5/32"). Then turning the recess for the gear box main shaft bearing. Centering and measuring  took more time than the turning. As the gear is rather large (DP6 18 teeth), holding it in the large 4 jaw chuck went well. This afternoon I broached the key ways, that went well (I had to wait quite some time for the broach I ordered 6 week ago. Tomorrow I will sent the gear to the hardening shop.

The clutch drum shaft with flange, it took 7 hours of turning.

 

Turning the first pass of the 'small side' gear part of the clutch gear.

 

Front side of Clutch drum flange & shaft + front side of the clutch gear.

 

Back side of clutch drum flange & shaft and back side of the clutch gear.

 

Regards,

Harm

Edited May 26, 2022 by Sloth (see edit history)

[alsfarms]

Hello Harm, That is nice mechanicing on your clutch.  You will have that clutch so dialed in when you are done with the rebuild that you will probably think the Oakland has an automatic transmission!  Not Oakland, but I am interested in your thatch repair.  Share a picture or two please.

Regards,

Al

[Sloth]

50 minutes ago, alsfarms said:

Hello Harm, That is nice mechanicing on your clutch.  You will have that clutch so dialed in when you are done with the rebuild that you will probably think the Oakland has an automatic transmission!  Not Oakland, but I am interested in your thatch repair.  Share a picture or two please.

Regards,

Al

Hello Al,

Thank you for the kind words. Indeed, I hope the Oakland clutch will behave like a 'decent' clutch, but I have some doubts about it..... we will see. At the moment its impossible to shoot some pictures of the roof, a heavy thunder storm with lots of rain is raging 😅. The rain is really welcome,  the last 6 weeks were very dry. My farmer neighbors complained a lot about the drought. Tomorrow I will post some pictures of the thatchers working on/at the roof.

Regards,

Harm

[Sloth]

Hello,

As promised yesterday, below 3 pictures of the thatchers mending the roof of our farm. 

 

West side of the farm roof. The roof was very worn, that is obvious, as we have 70% of the time western winds.

Most of the rain and thunder showers are from western regions, so a roof situated on the west side of a building

wears out within 10 to 15 years. It took the 2 thatcher 3 days to bring it back to standard. The North side will wear

out within 10 years (no sun and most of the time moist).

 

 

On the two pictures above, the two thatchers are mending the roof on the south side. The lifespan of the

south side is usually 30 to 40 years. But after 25 years, the roof was worn a bit 'thin' so the thatchers decided

to put a lot of new reed into it. The thickness of a thatched roof is usually about 10 to 12 inches. The east side has a

lifespan of 40 to 50 years. But it all depends on regular maintenance (at least every 4 to 5 years).

 

Regards,

Harm

Edited May 24, 2022 by Sloth
spelling errors (see edit history)

[alsfarms]

Hello Harm, Thanks for your pictures. You mentioned "Reed" as being the thatch material?  Could you provide more information on the thatch material?  It is simply unheard of here in the western US.  Does the thatch material grow locally in your area?  How is it processed before being installed on your roof?  Does this thatch material naturally Ward off mold and mildew when wet?  What speed are your highest winds?  We can have winds to 60-70 mph.  Would a thatched roof hold up to that velocity of wind?  Do you think you will have the Oakland on the road this summer?

Regards,

Al

[Terry Harper]

3 hours ago, Sloth said:

Hello,

As promised yesterday, below 3 pictures of the thatchers mending the roof of our farm. 

 

Hello Harm,

 

Thank you so much for sharing! I was just discussing (non-traditional - at least over here) roofing materials with my students. I didn't realize the life span could be so great.

I understand the ridge requires more frequent maintenance and renewal?

 

[Sloth]

4 hours ago, alsfarms said:

Hello Harm, Thanks for your pictures. You mentioned "Reed" as being the thatch material?  Could you provide more information on the thatch material?  It is simply unheard of here in the western US.  Does the thatch material grow locally in your area?  How is it processed before being installed on your roof?  Does this thatch material naturally Ward off mold and mildew when wet?  What speed are your highest winds?  We can have winds to 60-70 mph.  Would a thatched roof hold up to that velocity of wind?  Do you think you will have the Oakland on the road this summer?

Regards,

Al

Hi Al,

Reed is the thatch material that is used. (Phragmites australis, syn. Phragmites communis), also called common reed, it is a plant species belonging to  the grass family (Poaceae). Reed is a common name for several tall, grass like plants growing at wetlands.The plant can grow in marshlands and on waterfronts, the plant is a helofyt. It grows during spring and summer, and can be 10 feet tall. During the autumn it is left to dry, during the end of autumn and wintertime it is harvested by mowing. It will be cleared of weed and small wood parts, then it will be bundled and stored, till it is used for thatching. I live near Kalenberg, it is one of the largest reed producing areas in the Netherlands and famous for the quality of the reed (and very expensive too 😉). Reed is also grown and exported by Hungary, Romania, China a.o.

It does more or less ward off mold and mildew but only if it get the time to  dry. When it stays wet, algae and moss will take over and destroys the reed -and the roof starts leaking-. Regular maintenance is needed to prolong the lifespan of the roof. Trees in the neighborhood of a thatched roof are limiting its lifespan, sunshine and free circulation of wind is what is needed.

Wind velocity, where I live, max. about 70 mph. The storm of this years spring brought a wind velocity of 80 mph, no problem for our proper thatched roof ☺️.

 

Al, I really hope to get the Oakland in the autumn on the road, IF I don't find other mechanical problems/setbacks. I look forward to continue to the restoration/recreation of the Cleveland.

 

Regards,

Harm

Edited May 24, 2022 by Sloth
Corrected sentence and typos (see edit history)

[trimacar]

I didn't see it, or maybe you don't want to share, what's your serial number?  Trying to date this tag I have for sale thanks dc

[Sloth]

27 minutes ago, Terry Harper said:

Hello Harm,

 

Thank you so much for sharing! I was just discussing (non-traditional - at least over here) roofing materials with my students. I didn't realize the life span could be so great.

I understand the ridge requires more frequent maintenance and renewal?

 

Hello Terry,

Back in the days when the air was not polluted, the lifespan was about 60 to 70 years, but air pollution has shorten the lifespan of the thatched roofs.

The ridge on the west side needs the same 5 year maintenance as the roof reed, on the east side no maintenance needed. On our roof the ridge is constructed of 2 layers of heavy tar-paper, and kept in place by chicken wire stitched on the reed battens by steel wire. As it sits high an dry, its lifespan is about 25 years. Ridges on a thatched roof can be constructed of copper  or special ceramic tiles. The ceramic tiles are pleasing for the eye, but expensive and need more maintenance than the tar paper solution. And above all they are heavy. The copper ridges are a new development, nobody knows what the lifespan will be.

Regards,

Harm

[Sloth]

46 minutes ago, trimacar said:

I didn't see it, or maybe you don't want to share, what's your serial number?  Trying to date this tag I have for sale thanks dc

Hello,

The engine number of my car is 4196.

I looked in my book of 'Serial Numbers of the first 50 years, by Grace Brigham'. I found that number 6471 belongs to an Oakland model 30 of 1911.

The model 30 range for that year is 5000-5500; 5501-5700; 5701-5800; 6051-6500 . So 6471 is probably late 1911.

Regards,

Harm

Edited May 24, 2022 by Sloth
Added serial number of my car (see edit history)

[trimacar]

2 hours ago, Sloth said:

Hello,

The engine number of my car is 4196.

I looked in my book of 'Serial Numbers of the first 50 years, by Grace Brigham'. I found that number 6471 belongs to an Oakland model 30 of 1911.

The model 30 range for that year is 5000-5500; 5501-5700; 5701-5800; 6051-6500 . So 6471 is probably late 1911.

Regards,

Harm

Thank you very much, interesting stuff, all the more fascinating that the information is available!  Appreciate your response...dc

[Sloth]

Hello,

With the gear to the hardening shop, I started inspecting the pinion end of the third member housing. After cleaning and removing some silicone sealer, i found a lot of welding and also a lot of cracks. Now I understand the use of the silicone sealer. So to see, sealer did not help much as the pinion end of the housing was very oily and dirty. Further more the bearing at the pinion end, and the bearing at the gearbox end do not line up. Putting the third  member drive shaft into the housing needed too much force, first rough measurement: 1/32"out of wack. This automobile has had a tough life....

But the big question is: what to do to improve it. Using as is, is in my opinion out of the question. All those small cracks will accumulate into one -very costly- big bang. What I can do, is carving a new pinion bearing end out of steel and rivet it on the tube again. Or make separate parts and weld them together. And after welding and heat treatment, put it in the lathe for fine tuning. Gentlemen please be so kind to share your opinion.

 

 Side view of the welded pinion end of the third member.

 

Top view of the pinion end of the third member, the more or less 'square' box

for adjusting the pinion bearing,  is all welded.

 

Regards,

Harm (who again needs a very stiff gin tonic)

[Terry Harper]

Wow! That has been used and abused! Rather than weld up an assembly could you have it cast? It would take at least one core.

 

The engineer in me would be very curious as to why it cracked in the first place.  

 

Keep moving forward Harm - problems like this makes life interesting and rewarding!

[alsfarms]

Hello Harm,

I am with Terry....I would certainly explore a 3-D pattern and have a new one cast with a few improvements to ensure that the new casting would be immortal.

Al