Me and My 1956 Buick Super 4 Door Sedan

[JohnD1956]

46 minutes ago, KAD36 said:

limfacs   or very long lead depending on what the extent of the rebuild, or perhaps refresh, objectives for the motor are and which weaknesses you decide to address as the COA is refined.

Limfacs?   and is COA ?  

I need to take a course on abbreviations...🤔

[KAD36]

7 hours ago, EmTee said:

dress the inner surface of the cover with wet/dry paper

Actually the cover was brought closer to the base of the gears by dressing down the housing until the distance between cover and base of gears met the very low end tolerance of the factory manuals spec limit.  Then an ultra super skim coat (almost transparent) of anerobic sealer went between cover and housing.

 

My decision after researching a few horror stories of people replacing the original oil pump gears with overseas white box unlabeled knock offs and having the gears shear off the shaft better to fix up the old iron.
 

Cam, main, and rod bearing clearances would have more effect on the oil pressure and as noted the pump is not a common source of major wear, yet it is an easy non intrusive afternoon improvement especially if all the parts are already loose.  Am wondering out loud if a cam bearing could be replaced and cut if found necessary with an old camshaft while the engine is still in but that sounds pretty tough and it’s not the most logical decision right now.

[EmTee]

Well, if cam bearings are worn I'd expect the mains and rods to be likewise.  So, as I said, Plastigauge would tell right away if the bearings are just worn-out.  Could the oil pump pressure regulator be faulty (i.e., stuck open)?

[KAD36]

Oops - my apologies JD I got lazy on typing. limfac = limiting factor, COA = course of action.

Could the oil pump pressure regulator be faulty (i.e., stuck open)?

^—  Was thinking about EmTees comment above and would pile on that would be another smart thing to check if you choose to go into the oil pump - if that valve wasn’t fully seating from debris or damage, spring integrity compromised for any reason (brief paragraph 2-24 in manual, am thinking of the crud you showed us in the pan and on the screen) it could re-route lower viscosity oil back to the pan which could drop the pressure.  There’s another relief valve inside the oil filter housing to route oil around a filter if it becomes restricted but that would probably have less of an impact than the one EMTee references.

 

Here is an interesting read - see oil pressure is low section at the end, referencing the relief valve and debris.
 

Engine Builder Mag - Oil Pumps

 

Just some thoughts.  Have fun.

 

Edited December 23, 2021 by KAD36 (see edit history)

[usnavystgc]

17 hours ago, EmTee said:

Well, if cam bearings are worn I'd expect the mains and rods to be likewise.  So, as I said, Plastigauge would tell right away if the bearings are just worn-out.  Could the oil pump pressure regulator be faulty (i.e., stuck open)?

Wouldn't this limit the oil pressure under all conditions (ie: cold start, steady state 30mph, etc)?

[KAD36]

Yes it would affect the oil pressure all the time but it’s probably subjective at best how much exactly on 40 deg thicker cold vs 200+ deg thinner oil, especially if the valve is not fully sealing.  We’ve seen a drop of 40 psi due to temperature with this particular oil in the fixed clearances of TBD thousandths of the bearings, worn or otherwise;  so it may not take much to bleed off pressure when it’s thin vs more tolerable when cold.  Hence the caveat of “if” you choose to look at the pump it’s something else fairly easy to check off and be sure of - not a smoking gun.  Difficult to put objective numbers on it.

 

Edited December 23, 2021 by KAD36 (see edit history)

[EmTee]

I guess what I'm saying is if the problem is limited to low oil pressure and the problem can be localized to something like the oil pump, I'd hate to see the engine pulled and a complete rebuild performed, as that represents a big commitment in time and money for a car that just recently awoke from hibernation.  On the other hand, if you're committed to the car and rebuild was planned in the future, maybe now is the time.

 

I forgot, did you perform a compression test?  If so, what were the results?  If not, I wouldn't pull the motor before doing that...

[JohnD1956]

@KAD36 Thanks for the lessons.  Also thanks for the link to that oil pump article.  That was a nice read!  And in this case I would suggest trying the different viscosity oil which comes from a different manufacturer.  

[usnavystgc]

Thanks Ken for posting that. So many things to consider. I'm taking everything you guys say into account. As always I really appreciate all the great advice. Based on everything you all have said here's my plan.

1) add STP to see if that makes any difference

2)  if no difference, remove/rebuild oil pump

3)  if no difference, weigh prospects of engine rebuild

 

#3 is a tough choice being that this is a 4 door post sedan (which is worth only $16k in concourse condition according to Hagerty). It also has a ton of issues beyond engine problems (front floorboards, quarter panel rot, chrome that is too far gone and a host of other cosmetic issues). Most people would consider this a parts car. I am having fun with it and learning a lot so knowledge is priceless. Additionally, it keeps me out of trouble. 

I'll keep you all informed of the progress.

[usnavystgc]

17 hours ago, EmTee said:

I forgot, did you perform a compression test?  If so, what were the results?  If not, I wouldn't pull the motor before doing that

I have not run a formal compression test but, I did do an informal one before I ever tried to start it. This is gonna sound funny but, the informal test consisted of removing the plugs and putting a piece of shop towel in the spark plug hole, cranking the engine to see is the compression expelled them. All cylinders expelled the rags. I know this doesn't tell you much but based on how smooth the engine runs (you guys heard it) I believe all cylinders have acceptable compression. The engine has a lot of power too. I've noticed it's gotten stronger as it gets more operating time.

[EmTee]

1 minute ago, usnavystgc said:

I believe all cylinders have acceptable compression.

You'd be surprised how well a worn engine can run.  If you're really serious about working on your Buick, you should really invest in a compression gauge; they're really not very expensive.  That and a vacuum gauge can tell you a lot about the condition of the engine.  My point (again) is that if compression and idle vacuum readings are good, pulling the engine wouldn't be necessary, unless you want to replace gaskets/seals, paint the engine, and detail the engine compartment.  Ask Santa for a compression gauge and make those measurements before dropping the oil pan to check bearing clearance and oil pump.

 

If compression tests OK - great! You'll have established a baseline going forward.  Then, when the engine misbehaves in the future you can test again and compare against your previous baseline.  That's really helpful troubleshooting information. 

[usnavystgc]

@EmTee I want to make sure I understand you correctly.  If compression and vacuum are good, I can continue to run the engine with this low oil pressure?

[EmTee]

The point I was trying to make was that if compression and idle vacuum are good, the cylinders, rings and valves are still serviceable and you can focus repairs on solving the oil pressure problem (i.e., a complete tear-down and rebuild isn't imminent).  On the other hand, if compression is low or individual cylinders have issues, the engine may just be worn-out; in which case rebuild would be an option (or swap with another, better nailhead).

 

Having compression test data will also give you a 'baseline' from which to assess any change in performance later.  Just be cautious that the initial compression results could indicate one or more cylinders with low compression simply due to the fact that the car has been parked for so long.  Carbon deposits can break free and get stuck under valves and rings can get stuck in piston grooves just from sitting.  So, I would repeat the initial test after driving the car for 200 ~ 500 miles.

 

This is getting a little off-topic, but all I'm saying is that if compression looks good, I'd suggest focusing on the oil pressure issue.  If compression is so-so, additional steps would be needed to determine whether the engine has reached the point where it should be rebuilt.

Edited December 24, 2021 by EmTee
typo (see edit history)

[JohnD1956]

A possible replacement motor. I don't know anything about it though. 

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2525571274/permalink/10158959355046275/

[KAD36]

On 12/24/2021 at 12:02 PM, usnavystgc said:

1) add STP to see if that makes any difference

2)  if no difference, remove/rebuild oil pump

3)  if no difference, weigh prospects of engine rebuild

add to 1) also try a more typical grade of dino oil, 10-40, 20-50, straight weight 30, Castrol, Quaker State, Valvoline pick your favorite.  Heck I ran 15-40 diesel with 1 shot of STP in my old worn engine for awhile.  Now you've done about all you can without taking anything apart.

 

add to 2) measure the pump and check the valve and mounting area for any leaks as discussed and see what you find (mark the gears).  If it all measures in spec, or you don't want to try to "bring it in" then consider pulling a bearing cap or two and plasti-gage it while the pan is off.  Watch it on re-using rod and cap attaching hardware - the specs are more stringent and hardware under greater stress than R&Ring the oil pump hardware.  I will respectfully yield to the forum experts on that since my unexpected sitcom on reusing rotating assembly hardware one time set me back a couple grand.

 

3) depending on how you are going to use the car, you might get away with a more economical refresh of areas of the engine vs rebuilding the whole thing.  So far we are just talking oil pressure right?  The measurements all discussed in folks posts so far will help you build a report card for the engine on main and rod bearings and piston ring seals - i.e critical fluid pressures, vacuum, seals and compression.  With that information in hand you can make an informed decision on how far to go with machine shop work vs things you can refresh/restore yourself.

 

Personally, while not a big snake oil fan, some oil improvements, some checking on the oil pump integrity, and driving it with some TLC IMHO this engine has some useful life left in it and you would only have to spend a little bit of money.  It may not be a drag queen or run 75mph all day in 110 deg weather with 6 of your best bubbas on board and a full trunk of beer and clubs but it can still be driver and enjoyed once its limitations are understood.  Goes back to what your objectives are

 

Keep us posted on what you decide.

 

 

 

Edited December 27, 2021 by KAD36 (see edit history)

[usnavystgc]

Well, I managed to finish installing the zerk fitting on the propeller shaft.  It is not pretty and I'm glad this is a practice car for me.  If anyone is doing this in the future, I did not find it as straightforward as the procedure suggests.  Here are my observations.

 

1)  The 7.25 inch measurement should probably be more like 7.5 and should not include the width of the mounting flange.  At 7.25 inches including the mounting flange, I def hit the splines of the differential shaft.  That hole was very hard to tap since most smaller taps come with a pointed end.  Before I drilled it out to size, I attempted to tap it with a smaller tap (6-32 for a 7/64 hole) to make sure I could tap this hole.  The tap kept hitting the differential shaft and I had to grind down the end of the tap to even have a chance to tap it.  After several hours of struggling, I could not get it tapped with enough threads (I was only able to get one or 2 threads).  I chose to drill another hole (which I hated to do) further down.  This time I measured 7.25 inches to not include the width of the flange and I still hit the very end of the differential shaft (not with the pilot hole bit but with the 7/32 bit).  I could see the very edge of the differential spline on the left side of the hole.  This was with the propeller shaft pushed as far forward as possible.  So my recommendation is, 7.5 inches, not including the flange width and with the propeller shaft pushed as far forward as possible.

2)  The metal is hard even the torque tube metal.  HSS bits will get thru it but, man it was tough.  The 5/8 inch hole was especially tough.  I recommend cobalt bits or at least titanium nitride.

3)  The metal on the propeller shaft is so hard, it was wearing down the cutting threads of the tap.  I had to grind down the worn threads 4 times before I finally got enough threads to hold the zerk fitting.

4)  In my view, the frame 6 picture is misleading (at least on my car).  The differential shaft appears to protrude thru the propeller shaft much farther than what that picture represents.  

 

I was able to get the area lubed but, I still need to plug up the other hole I drilled.  I haven't decided on the best course of action for this yet but, for now, it is plugged with JB weld and I have a rubber plug over the holes in the torque tube.  If I had to do it again, I'm confident I could do it right the first time however, this was a learning experience where I learned some lessons the hard way.

 

Overall, I'm very disappointed with myself on not getting this done the right way the first time.  There's more work to be done to fix the other holes in the prop shaft and torque tube but, I guess this is how we learn (although I hate learning like this).  I don't want to post pics cuz frankly I'm embarrassed but, I guess this is what it takes to become a master 56 Buick tech.

Edited December 29, 2021 by usnavystgc (see edit history)

[JohnD1956]

Thanks for the write up of your first hand experience.  That is so valuable.  It is greatly appreciated.

 

[KAD36]

 

6 hours ago, usnavystgc said:

The metal on the propeller shaft is so hard, it was wearing down the cutting threads of the tap.

Made in the good ol’ USA!  Good job & thanks for the write up

[usnavystgc]

Some other observations I just thought of;

1)  It might be better to push the prop shaft all the way aft/back before drilling your hole.  This way if you hit the differential splines, you can move the hole forward and not have to drill a new hole.  Disclaimer:  Notice I said might, since I didn't try this, I have no way of knowing if its a good way of doing things or not.  I think the biggest shortfall in the procedure is, not telling you where to place the prop shaft regarding fore and aft movement.  There's easily 1 to 1.5 inches of fore and aft movement on it.  The other shortfall is not mentioning whether or not to include the flange on your measurement.  I would def say, do not include the flange.  The flange is about a half inch thick.  

2)  The 5/8 hole is plenty big enough for a grease gun to fit with space to spare

 

I never thought in depth on how a tap works before this (cuz it never mattered) but, this opened my eyes.  If you look closely at a tap, the first thread is virtually flat, the second thread cuts a little deeper, the third thread a little deeper and you don't start making an actual thread until your 4 turns into it.  This is why i could not get the first hole tapped with enough threads.  You have to have enough space below your final thread for 3 semi threads. I did not have this on the hole that hit the differential shaft head on. 

 

Edited December 29, 2021 by usnavystgc (see edit history)

[usnavystgc]

Happy New Year everyone, love you guys.  

 

Ok, here's another update for ya.  I went to drive the car to my friends house with the lift to do a more permanent fix to the hole in the driveshaft.  Before I left, I decided I better check the coolant level.  Something told me to start it up and watch for flow.  When I did, I heard a weird noise coming from what I thought was the fan belt.  I already knew it was making noise before so I pressed on, filled it up with coolant and monitored for leaks.  After a few minutes, I noticed the car was not warming up to temp like it normally did.  It did not go past 120.  After waiting some time, I noticed the fan was throwing coolant in the air in a mist.  I shut off the car and saw a tremendous amount of coolant leak out of the weep hole on the water pump (all over my garage floor of course :)).  I knew what this meant and the plans immediately changed.  Of course you can't just go buy a water pump for this car at O'Reilly's so I put one on order and took the old pump off thinking I'll put it on once it comes in.

 

When I loosened the bolts on the fan, it would not break free so, I got out the trusty rubber mallet.  Despite my best efforts to control the fan and stop it from hitting the radiator, it snuck past me and punctured 3 holes in 3 separate tubes.  I thought, that's ok, I can fix that, I'm good at soldering.  Finished pulling the pump and pulled the radiator.  Went to solder the radiator and despite my best efforts, I can't get solder to stick.  I tried everything, acid flux, regular flux, of course I cleaned the crap out of it with a wire brush, silver solder, rosin core, butane torch, propane torch, you name it.  The solder would not flow where I needed it to flow.  So far, I've only managed to ruin some of the cooling fins.  Does anyone have any experience soldering radiator tubes?  I really don't want an aluminum radiator and I'm trying to avoid a recore.

[old-tank]

16 minutes ago, usnavystgc said:

Does anyone have any experience soldering radiator tubes?

I do nearly all of the restoration and repairs on my cars, but this is something that I take in to a radiator shop.  And I have had days like you described.😒

[usnavystgc]

Thanks Willie.  I should have done that to begin with.  I think I'm going to read and heed your advice.  There's only one in town.  I hope I didn't screw it up beyond repair.

[JohnD1956]

5 hours ago, usnavystgc said:

Happy New Year everyone, love you guys.  

 

Ok, here's another update for ya.  I went to drive the car to my friends house with the lift to do a more permanent fix to the hole in the driveshaft.  Before I left, I decided I better check the coolant level.  Something told me to start it up and watch for flow.  When I did, I heard a weird noise coming from what I thought was the fan belt.  I already knew it was making noise before so I pressed on, filled it up with coolant and monitored for leaks.  After a few minutes, I noticed the car was not warming up to temp like it normally did.  It did not go past 120.  After waiting some time, I noticed the fan was throwing coolant in the air in a mist.  I shut off the car and saw a tremendous amount of coolant leak out of the weep hole on the water pump (all over my garage floor of course :)).  I knew what this meant and the plans immediately changed.  Of course you can't just go buy a water pump for this car at O'Reilly's so I put one on order and took the old pump off thinking I'll put it on once it comes in.

 

When I loosened the bolts on the fan, it would not break free so, I got out the trusty rubber mallet.  Despite my best efforts to control the fan and stop it from hitting the radiator, it snuck past me and punctured 3 holes in 3 separate tubes.  I thought, that's ok, I can fix that, I'm good at soldering.  Finished pulling the pump and pulled the radiator.  Went to solder the radiator and despite my best efforts, I can't get solder to stick.  I tried everything, acid flux, regular flux, of course I cleaned the crap out of it with a wire brush, silver solder, rosin core, butane torch, propane torch, you name it.  The solder would not flow where I needed it to flow.  So far, I've only managed to ruin some of the cooling fins.  Does anyone have any experience soldering radiator tubes?  I really don't want an aluminum radiator and I'm trying to avoid a recore.

It's times like this that I miss the "sad" emoticon here.  That sucks about the radiator.  Likely it needs to be cleaned internally for that solder to stick.  Of course that means having it boiled out at the local radiator shop.  Hope you can avoid a re- core.  But if you cannot, make sure to go to a 3 row core.  You'll be dumping a lot of money in it but in AZ it should be a big help to have the extra row.  

[KAD36]

Got another Darwin day.  One time I started the car with the hood up without the fan bolts in and the fan flew off and hit the radiator also making a job for the local radiator shop.  Why?  I wanted to know if the fan was on straight.  Yeah you read it right.  It was college, this was a beer repair, and that’s all I have to say about that.  
 

Try a piece of cardboard in front of the radiator so the fan bumps into that, and carry a bottle of Bars Leak just in case.  Skim skim coat of grease or anti seize on the hub next time it will come off easy.

 

BTW consider keeping the old water pump and getting rebuilt and have hot spare on hand.  Seem to recall mixed reviews on new repop castings, vanes, seals etc.  Cannot recall specifics maybe someone can help.  FWIW Flying Dutchman has done my last 3 as recent as 2018 and he set me up with one for when AC was added to the car and all work well, am not sure his current business status.  There are a number of reputable rebuilders out there folks have used so you can make an informed decision.  Good luck

Edited January 4, 2022 by KAD36 (see edit history)

[JohnD1956]

39 minutes ago, KAD36 said:

Got another Darwin day.  One time I started the car with the hood up without the fan bolts in and the fan flew off and hit the radiator also making a job for the local radiator shop.  Why?  I wanted to know if the fan was on straight.  Yeah you read it right.

🤔😄

[usnavystgc]

That is a funny story Ken.  Thanks for sharing. 

 

Ok well, the radiator is at the radiator shop.  He said he will see what he can do with no guarantees he can fix it but, will try his best.  

[EmTee]

4 hours ago, usnavystgc said:

the radiator is at the radiator shop. 

Ask them to flow-test it for you since it's there.  If they say flow is good that will be useful information when troubleshooting a future overheating event.

[usnavystgc]

Thanks @EmTee, I did and they said that was part of the service.

[usnavystgc]

I was surprised when no one asked me why I painted the oil filter canister yellow, since no one asked, I'll just tell.

 

I painted it yellow because I'm going with US Navy ship color codes for fluids.  Yellow is for Lube oil.  I also painted the master cylinder orange which is for hydraulic oil.  I will continue to do this as I paint stuff (so that means the P/S pump reservoir will also be painted orange).  It will look cool if I ever get it all done.

 

Here's a link for reference if anyone is interested.  https://www.alternatewars.com/BBOW/Colors/US_Naval_Pipes.htm, not all colors are listed but, this gives you an idea.  We also paint arrows on the pipes to indicate flow direction (which I'd love to do to my fuel, brake and vacuum lines but, that's for another day).  

 

So, that's the logic behind the yellow oil filter can.  

 

[dship]

3 hours ago, usnavystgc said:

I was surprised when no one asked me why I painted the oil filter canister yellow, since no one asked, I'll just tell.

 

I painted it yellow because I'm going with US Navy ship color codes for fluids.  Yellow is for Lube oil.  I also painted the master cylinder orange which is for hydraulic oil.  I will continue to do this as I paint stuff (so that means the P/S pump reservoir will also be painted orange).  It will look cool if I ever get it all done.

 

Here's a link for reference if anyone is interested.  https://www.alternatewars.com/BBOW/Colors/US_Naval_Pipes.htm, not all colors are listed but, this gives you an idea.  We also paint arrows on the pipes to indicate flow direction (which I'd love to do to my fuel, brake and vacuum lines but, that's for another day).  

 

So, that's the logic behind the yellow oil filter can.  

 

Being a Navy brat of a 30 year career Navy Sr. Chief Gunners Mate father (E8), I can relate to this stuff!

Edited January 6, 2022 by dship (see edit history)

[JohnD1956]

19 hours ago, usnavystgc said:

I painted it yellow because I'm going with US Navy ship color codes for fluids.  Yellow is for Lube oil. 

Looks like it needs a black stripe according to the chart you referenced.  Will it be tough to find blue radiator hose?  🤔😄

[usnavystgc]

You're right JD, it should have a black stripe but, I was in a hurry.  Lol.

 

I'm sure it will be very tough to find blue rad hoses so I'll probably leave them black.

[usnavystgc]

Well, lots of wrench turning this weekend and lots accomplished. Water pump painted and installed, pulley painted and installed, radiator fixed and installed, fan shroud painted and installed, extra hole in driveshaft repaired with a set screw covered with blue thread lock, oil pan dropped (again) and oil pump clearances verified at the lower end of tolerances (.002"), 20w50 Valvoline racing oil installed, new coolant installed. 

Unfortunately after all of this, there was virtually zero improvement to the overheating and oil pressure issues. Oil pressure did increase by about 2 to 3 psi but, I'm still having the thermal runaway issue.

But, all is not lost. All of those things were ruled out so, Ken and I began brainstorming on what else to look for and what else could be tried. The only thing I could think of was to switch to a 160 deg thermostat. I noticed that at 160, I have about 5 to 9 psi at idle in drive. I have picked up the thermostat and will install it after I try what Ken noticed (which was so basic but overlooked). I always wondered why the coolant would bubble at 210 in a closed pressurized system. Ken then asked about my elevation which is 3000 ft. Google says water will boil at 207 at 3k ft in an open system. Logic says the system must be open. He then told me to check the seal on my rad cap and low and behold, the seal was gone. No seal equals no pressure, equals open system. 

Of course O'Reilly's did not have a rad cap in stock but, they can get it today. I really believe this has been a big contributor to the problem all along. My plan is to install the new cap and drive it. If no improvement, I will change the thermostat. 

Here are some pics of the fun.

 

Rad cap with no rubber seal

BEAUT56 up on the lift

Oil pan removed

Oil pump removed, this thing literally looks brand new and like I said is at the lower end of tolerances. 

Here's the abortion on my torque tube. Hardest metal ever. First hole is at 7.25 including flange, second is at 7.25 not including flange. Maybe I'll have it welded someday but for now I have rubber plugs covering the holes (not pictured).

Shroud and water pump painted and installed.

 

Little by little. 

PS: I am aware my parking brake spring needs replaced and the fuel filter routing is incorrect. It's a long story lol. 

Edited January 10, 2022 by usnavystgc (see edit history)

[EmTee]

Good find regarding the radiator cap!  Verify dwell and timing are correct; late timing will make it run hotter.  Also, I recommend using a lower hose that incorporates an internal spring to prevent collapse.  Lastly, since your radiator is now clean, consider installing a calf-height nylon stocking in the upper hose (push toe of stocking into the upper tank) and fold the open end over the hose flange then slip the hose over it and clamp it as usual.  Check the stocking after a hundred miles or so and see whether you catch any crud.  If so, you may need to knock out a couple of core plugs and flush the block.

[KAD36]

^——- +1

 

Mind the freeze plugs and heater core as potential weak links when the system pressurizes.  Did you go with 7 lb cap?  Also there are “ high flow” 160 thermostats…have one on the shelf…mixed results IMHO.  Will be an interesting data point for us on how your car responds if you try it.  Good luck!

 

Edited January 10, 2022 by KAD36 (see edit history)

[old-tank]

1 hour ago, EmTee said:

Verify dwell and timing are correct; late timing will make it run hotter.

As will a  nonfunctioning vacuum advance.

[usnavystgc]

We're gonna get this fixed yet.  It's gonna be the best running 50's Buick in Tucson, AZ. 

 

[usnavystgc]

Ok everyone, the saga continues. I got some stuff done yesterday. 

1) checked dwell angle and it was at 31 deg

2) the timing was at 2 deg BTDC. I set it 5 engine rpm was below 400. 

3) I changed the thermostat to a 160 deg version

4) I checked the lower rad hose for collapse and no problems there (checked after the test drive)

Went for a test drive and there was no appreciable difference in the thermal runaway problem. The car continues to overheat. The cooling system just cannot keep up with the heat output of the engine. I tried many different things during the drive to see if I could get a stable temp and it seemed to like about 35 to 40 mph steady state. Anything other than that, the temp rises. No condition lowered the temp so once it hit a temp, it never went lower. It is truly a thermal runaway condition.

After the drive I removed the thermostat just to rule that out and there was no change. Thermal runaway continued. 

The next thing I'm going to try is flushing the block. 

On a positive note, with the timing set correctly, the engine has noticeably more power. Much stronger on takeoff.  

That's all I have to report guys. If anyone thinks of something else to try please chime in.

Edited January 13, 2022 by usnavystgc (see edit history)

[Smartin]

Definitely get the block flushed.  It sounds like that’s the last thing in the cooling system you haven’t checked off.

 

Get the dwell set at 30 on the money.  Make sure the vacuum advance is working.  It provides several additional degrees of advance at cruise speed. If the engine is running excessively lean, it will run hotter too.  Be sure you don’t have any big vacuum leaks.

[usnavystgc]

1 hour ago, Smartin said:

Get the dwell set at 30 on the money.

I know you know how hard it is to move the points that minute of an amount.    If I'm being honest, I will likely not worry about it.

 

Vacuum advance is also one of the things I need to look at.  Thanks for your advice, I sincerely appreciate it.