Me and My 1956 Buick Super 4 Door Sedan

[usnavystgc]

Here's a teaser of what it's starting to become.  I haven't sewn this yet but it's ready to sew.

 

Edited August 19, 2022 by usnavystgc (see edit history)

[usnavystgc]

Look what I found in the back of the front seat.

[EmTee]

Does any of that gibberish correlate with the trim tag on the cowl?

[usnavystgc]

4 hours ago, EmTee said:

Does any of that gibberish correlate with the trim tag on the cowl?

Yes, every bit of it correlates as follows

52 is for model 52 or four door post sedan Super series

4519 is the body type

BBB is for castle grey paint code on all three areas

523 is the interior trim code

D-B-F-G-I-L-W are the option codes which includes D am radio, B heater, F Safety group (B/U lights, glareproof mirror, dashpad and brake signals), G wide angle windshield wipers, I easy eye glass, L power brakes and W dual exhaust  (all of which this car has)

 

The only number I can't nail down is the 378 at the top.  I have no idea what that stands for.

 

Its crazy how the build sheet was just written by hand with an ink pen back then.  Very cool find in my view.  Hopefully the RM's build sheet is there too.

Edited August 23, 2022 by usnavystgc (see edit history)

[EmTee]

7 hours ago, usnavystgc said:

Very cool find in my view.

Yes - 'Super' cool! 

 

I wonder if '378' was the job number, or the position on the line...?

[usnavystgc]

15 hours ago, EmTee said:

I wonder if '378' was the job number, or the position on the line...?

It was probably the 378th car made at the Delaware plant.  This car was first titled in Dec of 1955 so, that makes sense.  

 

If you look at the top, you can see some of the letters from number 377 got tore off with this one.  I wonder if that one is readable?  It probably is.

[usnavystgc]

Lots of progress on the rear seat back. I'm calling this done.

[EmTee]

Looks good!  Did you have to replace the padding entirely, partially, or were you able to just re-use what was there?

[usnavystgc]

2 hours ago, EmTee said:

Did you have to replace the padding entirely, partially, or were you able to just re-use what was there?

On this one I was able to reuse the padding.  I just put a double layer of cotton batting over the top of the old batting.  There was no evidence of mice and it was still in good shape so I kept it.  Now the seat bottom is a different story.  The foam top layer is just crumbling and will need replaced.

[usnavystgc]

I finished the back seat, it's not perfect but, I think it turned out great.

Before

After

Edited October 26, 2022 by usnavystgc (see edit history)

[lancemb]

Holy smokes!  Great job!

[JohnD1956]

@usnavystgc That looks fabulous!  Very nice!

[EmTee]

Wow - I'll sit on that!  Nice work. 

 

Good plan to start with the back seat as it's less complicated than the front.  The best part comes when someone asks you who did the upholstery...

[usnavystgc]

2 hours ago, EmTee said:

Good plan to start with the back seat as it's less complicated than the front. 

I'm not sure if it's less complicated, the top part of the back seat was very complicated especially the armrest part (which the front seat does not have).  I think we started with the most complicated part.  The good thing is, that put us on a steep learning curve so the bottom part was relatively easy.  There were many mistakes made but, thankfully that just forced us to rip out stitching instead of cutting out new fabric.  The great part about duplicating what's already there is, you have a pattern.  

 

Here are some lessons learned for anyone that wants to attempt this

1)  The old fabric is stretched and deformed from years of being in a certain position.  Most lines are straight even though they may not look like it.  If there is a curve, it will be obvious

2)  Take tons of pics before you take anything apart and take pics as your taking it apart.  Try to capture the details of how it was originally put together including where the hog rings were originally placed

3)  If possible, finish raw edges of fabric and canvas with a surger.  This will help stop the edges from fraying as you work with the fabric/canvas

4)  Zip ties are your best friend to hold the cover in place while you attempt to put a hog ring where it's supposed to go.  Long zip ties can help you close a gap and hold it in place making it much easier to place the hog ring on

5)  It may take several attempts to get it sewn correctly, since the old fabric was stretched, it may be necessary to cut the new fabric a little short to get things to fit right.  As you're sewing, the fabric stretches and may not line up at the end.  Do not be afraid to cut the end of the fabric short if necessary.  The fabric will stretch more than the vinyl (especially pleated vinyl which stretches little).  Getting the pleated vinyl in the right place was the hardest part and its still not perfect

 

Thanks to all for the compliments.  The seat looks great at 5 feet but, if you examine it closely, there are many flaws but, hey, this is how you learn.  Now it's onto the front seat.  I have gained a lot of confidence and another skill thru this process.  Having this practice car is really invaluable.  I can take on a project and make my mistakes here so when I tackle the same issue with the Roadmaster, I can use the knowledge/skills I learned and apply them to it.  I've been having really good luck acquiring or being able to borrow the equipment I need to get things done.  I'm very blessed to have a network of friends with specialized skills and equipment and of course the knowledge on this forum is invaluable as well.

[sebastienbuick]

Beautiful work !! 

[KAD36]

That’s really impressive - great job!  Thanks for documenting the lessons learned.

[195354]

Impresive

This is the type of project that is fun to watch as they  move forward. 

Steve  

[EmTee]

On 9/12/2022 at 12:02 PM, usnavystgc said:

If possible, finish raw edges of fabric and canvas with a surger. 

Does your sewing machine do this or did you have to have it done by someone else who has a surger?

[usnavystgc]

5 hours ago, EmTee said:

Does your sewing machine do this or did you have to have it done by someone else who has a surger?

No you need a specific machine that does the surging.  The sewing machine I have was made in 1947 so it's very basic.  Thankfully my lady friend has a surger.   

[EmTee]

5 hours ago, usnavystgc said:

No you need a specific machine that does the surging.

Thanks - that's what I gathered after reading your tips and doing a little research.

[usnavystgc]

Well, the front seat is coming along but progress is slow. The fact that I don't have a pattern to go by is making it difficult.  We are just taking our time and moving forward methodically and trying not to learn things the hard way.  

 

As @Bloo mentioned, the back seat and front seat are very different so the inserts I made for it (copied from the back seat) will not work. As @JohnD1956 mentioned, the inserts do bend halfway across the top of the front seat. Thankfully, I kept all of that in mind while attempting this venture and it helped me get to this point (see pic).  I'm confident we now have a good plan and we will be able to closely duplicate what the original seat looked like.  Here's where it stands.

[usnavystgc]

Well progress is slow with the front seat but I am making progress. I have the front seat back complete and now I'm in the process of completing the front seat bottom. 

 

Much like the back seat, the foam on the front seat bottom was crumbling.  This will require me to completely replace all the foam and cotton batting.  This is the worst part of a job like this, its very time consuming and basically renders any pattern you may have useless since its so difficult to exactly match the original foam/cotton.

 

Edited October 19, 2022 by usnavystgc (see edit history)

[EmTee]

Looks great!

[usnavystgc]

Well, all the sewing and upholstery work on the seats is complete, here are some pics of the finished product.  Who knew one of the hardest steps would be the grab handle and ashtray installation.  Since i put a layer of vinyl over the top of the old vinyl, it of course made it very difficult to fit the grab handles and ashtray.  It probably took 3 hours of struggling with it to get it all back together.  Next step is the installation of the front seat tonight.

Edited October 27, 2022 by usnavystgc (see edit history)

[EmTee]

Nice!  Can't wait to see them in the car. 

[usnavystgc]

Well I did my best to get a good pic but I never realized how hard it is to take a good pic of the front seat. Nevertheless, here's what I came up with.  I now have matching front and back seats

 

Before

 

 

After

 

What it's supposed to look like. I think I managed to match it pretty close. I know this pic shows a solid color on the top of the seat bottom but the back seat bottom wasn't like that and I'm confident it was original so I stuck with that theme for the front.

 

 

My 1947 Singer did great.

Edited October 28, 2022 by usnavystgc (see edit history)

[usnavystgc]

The pics do not do it justice, for one, IDK why the baby blue vinyl looks white in some of them???  Also, even where it looks bluish, it's still not showing the true color.  This pic is the closest to the true color of the baby blue but, even that one doesn't fully capture the color..

 

[JohnD1956]

@usnavystgc that looks great!  I mean really nice. I'd be happy with that in my car. And I agree that the as drawn "correct" pattern is not exactly correct.  My 56 Super also has the vinyl piece at the seat edges and then the cloth panel on the seat bottoms. May I ask; how many hours did you invest in this work?

[Machine Gun]

@usnavystgcWow, beautifully done! 

[usnavystgc]

23 hours ago, JohnD1956 said:

May I ask; how many hours did you invest in this work?

Gosh, I have no idea other than to say it was countless hours invested. Much of it was due to a huge learning curve, I had to learn how to sew, much had to be resewn, I had to learn about foam and cushion replacement, how to make cording etc etc. I would estimate over 100 hours over a 2.5 month period. Of course the initial project morphed into a bigger project as it progressed. I went from just doing seats to carpet to kick panels to recovering the pillars (which is incomplete). The biggest eyesore in the interior now is the windlace (which looks atrocious) I haven't decided if I'm going to try to replace it. The biggest hurdle to replacing it is you have to remove the headliner...sigh.

 

Everything is a trade off meaning I probably saved about $1500 or more by doing it myself but it took so much of my time. One thing I do have is the experience and the pride of knowing I did it myself.

 

If anyone is interested, I spent less than $1000 on materials, the biggest expense was the original fabric which was over $100 a yard (i needed four yards). After that it was carpet at $200 then foam and batting and other misc materials like thread, scissors etc. It all adds up quick.  I was able to almost perfectly match the baby blue vinyl with marine vinyl. The dark blue is not a close match but, close enough for this car.

Edited October 29, 2022 by usnavystgc (see edit history)

[EmTee]

3 hours ago, usnavystgc said:

The biggest eyesore in the interior now is the windlace (which looks atrocious) I haven't decided if I'm going to try to replace it. The biggest hurdle to replacing it is you have to remove the headliner...sigh.

Really?  Do you have to remove the headliner, or just free the edge?  If the latter, then maybe it can be removed a little at a time so that it can be tacked back in place with the new windlace before removing the next section.  I'm guessing maybe work an 8~10" section and just advance along the windlace trim from one end to the other.  If the headlined itself is OK you wouldn't want to free the edge all at once.

[usnavystgc]

12 hours ago, EmTee said:

I'm guessing maybe work an 8~10" section and just advance along the windlace trim from one end to the other.

I'll look at it again and see if that's possible. The windlace is not tacked on, it has a piece of hard cardboard sewn to it that ticks behind some tabs. I'll post a pic later to help you understand. I was looking at it again last night and it looks like it might be possible to replace the windlace without removing the headliner. I have renewed hope. 😅

[EmTee]

Another, albeit non-original, approach might be to cut-off the old windlace and then install new windlace over the headliner.  Finally, cover the windlace tack strip with 'wire-on'.  That's essentially the way the headlined/windlace is finished in my '38.

 

[Bloo]

I doubt you would have anything to attach it to on a 56. I doubt you would get away with taking the edge of the headliner down, just because I would expect it to be old and rotten but...

 

Fisher bodies of that time frame are pretty conventional as steel bodies go. There's probably an alligator strip over the thick cardboard that the windlace tacks to along the edge of the headliner. Technically it is possible to take it down. You need a wide blunt and dull blade like an old early 20th century table knife. You have to get hold of an end with your fingers, then you hold down on that end while you push up with the old knife between the end you are hanging on to and the alligator strip, and unhook the headliner from each tooth.

 

Afterward you can take the strips off (phillips head screws if I remember correctly), and untack the windlace. On a GM car, the windlace might be sewed to a piece of cardboard going down the door post. That all comes off. No big deal.

 

This is no different from how the headliner is put up and adjusted for tension in the first place. Here is the kind of knife blade you need. They also make dedicated headliner tools if you are so inclined but I don't see much of an advantage.

 

 

 

 

 

[usnavystgc]

As promised here are some pics.  The first pic shows the what @Bloo calls alligator teeth, that's what the heavy cardboard goes over and is seemingly all that holds the windlace on.  I can get it off with no problem my concern is getting the new windlace on.

 

I have no idea what's holding the headliner on, it looks like it's just wrapped around itself.

 

Alligator teeth

How the windlace attaches to them

 

How the headliner attaches?

 

[Bloo]

Well... thats not quite what I expected. Those aren't the teeth. Those are just steel to hold the impregnated cardboard(?) that the windlace tacks to. The alligator strip is still hidden by the headliner in this picture.

 

 

Wondering if I can do this without downloading the pic and drawing arrows and reuploading....

 

That looks pried back. Starting at the "tooth" near the top of the picture, and moving to the right..

 

1) The raw edge of the headliner, that you would have to get hold of somehow and pull down on a little or just hold. Typically your only hope of getting hold of it is at an end. You might have to tease it down with something.

 

2) The black line is the highest part of the tuck. This is where your antique table knife goes. Normally you wouldn't be able to actually see it. because this is all tight against the roof. You push up while holding back on 1)

 

3) The alligator strip, still hidden by the headliner. It's teeth point up toward the sky, and very slightly to the left. You can see one of them poking left through the headliner material and crossing the black line. If you continue looking down toward the bottom of the picture from there, you will see a bunch more teeth, evenly spaced.

 

The trick is to hold down on the edge 1) while pushing up with your antique table knife into 2) unhooking the material from the teeth of 3) and then it will just come down. It is a bit of a trick. Sometimes your hand that is pulling down on 1) will move up slightly with the antique knife as you unhook a hook, and then you tip the far end of the knife toward the outside of the car slightly so the headliner does not re-hook as you move it downward.

 

 

 

Edited October 31, 2022 by Bloo (see edit history)

[EmTee]

That's not what I expected either.  My GP has garnish moldings, but under those the headlined edge is stapled to a cardboard tack strip.  I was assuming that your headliner was like that, but with the windlace flap tucked under the headliner and the windlace hid the raw edge.  Guess not...

 

But, the good news is that it definitely looks like the windlace can be replaced without disturbing the headliner - which is what you were hoping for, right?  So, it looks like the windlace flange is just poked-in the thin gap between the headliner and the teeth that are holding the headliner.  Maybe a thin, dull, flexible putty knife could be used to push the windlace flange into the gap if the 'butter knife' doesn't work.

 

Edited October 31, 2022 by EmTee (see edit history)

[usnavystgc]

Thank you both so much for schooling me on how this stuff works.  As you can see, I'm already committed so, I have requested windlace samples from a company that purports to sell exact matches on eBay.  Hopefully they will respond soon.  

 

@Bloo thanks for the great explanation on how that headliner attaches.  I think I'm going to try to attach the windlace without removing it but, if I end up having to remove it, I now know how.  I do have a follow up question though.  How in the world did they attach the headliner so tight to those alligator teeth.  I def understand the process of removing it but, when it comes time to put it back, what's the best way to reinstall it?  Is it done with the same early 20th century butterknife?  LOL  

 

I find it so funny how we find tools to do the job. 

 

@EmTeeThanks for the encouragement and suggestions, I can't wait to get rid of this atrocious looking windlace. 

 

  

Edited October 31, 2022 by usnavystgc (see edit history)

[Bloo]

They make a special tool, but the knife, specifically the kind I pictured, works just as well.

 

2 hours ago, usnavystgc said:

How in the world did they attach the headliner so tight to those alligator teeth.  I def understand the process of removing it but, when it comes time to put it back, what's the best way to reinstall it?  Is it done with the same early 20th century butterknife?  LOL  

 

The removal method I posted *is* the installation method. The only difference is it's easier when the headliner is new and hasn't been trimmed off yet. There's a lot less edge to hang on to on a used one.

 

Once you have done it a little., you can hook and unhook at will. When installing one, you adjust the tension to get rid of wrinkles. On a new headliner, with the headliner already centered in the car, and most of the front and back attached so the bows are standing up in the right position, you would do the spots at the seams first. Ever notice when looking at an installed headliner there is a spot where the direction of a seam makes a slight but sudden change as it comes down to the edge? It's not showing well in your pics, but in @EmTee's....

 

 

Especially look at the bottom of the dark spot, its most visible on the first two starting at the left of the picture, and sort of lost in the shadows on the rest.

 

That direction change is the end of the sleeve that goes around the bow, and on a brand new headliner the new sleeves are usually a little bit too long and the breakover point a little too low to not wrinkle. When you install a headliner, you generally cut those back a little to move the breakover point a little higher so you can get the seam to have no wrinkles all the way down to the edge. Don't cut the sleeve too much though, there's no going back!

 

Once the spots at the seams are attached to the alligator strips, then you do the areas in-between. Look at @EmTee's picturre again. See how it bulges nicely between the seams as it follows the curve of the roof, and they all look the same? You adjust the tension on the cloth to get that. It pulls and moves way easier between the seams. Once you get those right, maybe a little work at the corners of the headliner to make sure there aren't wrinkles.

 

The edges aren't cut until you are done. This is why it is technically possible (but not always practical) to take an old headliner back loose from the alligator strips. Once a newly installed headliner looks good, the edge of it is trimmed, then you cram the last little bit hanging out up into the void with the "tool" (knife). No telling how much that little bit was, but its probably not .030" or something, because who wants to risk cutting something important just to trim that edge? If it's 1/4" inch you can probably get hold of it with a duck bill pliers and if it's 1/2" or more your fingers can probably do it. Being able to hang on to that outer edge is what makes hooking and unhooking work.

 

Edited October 31, 2022 by Bloo (see edit history)

[usnavystgc]

Ok, got it.  I'm going to try to replace the windlace without disturbing the headliner.  I will keep all updated.  It probably won't happen for a week or so since I have to wait until the new windlace arrives.