Pierce Arrow 1930 Painting and color choice

[Walt G]

I have a data book that is dated January 1930 - these were used by salesmen for quick reference for facts and ideas to promote the cars on sale in the showrooms. Many manufacturers had these data books specific to the new cars for specific year . Most had few illustrations in the 1920-34 era but many pages of information - this has 96 pages total. They were not large in size as they were made to fit in the pocket of a suit jacket. Here is the "data" on "Processes Undergone by Body in Paint Shop" as well as the page on what paint color combinations  were offered from the P-A art department. Note the cost for some of the optional colors on certain models ! For the $100 charged for optional paint you could have bought a good condition used car that was only a few years old . Keep in mind the financial atmosphere when this book was issued, the Great Depression was not yet reality for most people as it was only a few months old. Most car manufacturers did not feel the financial hit until a year after the stock market collapse.

Hope you find these pages interesting. I have already shared these with my friends Ed and George (Grimy)!!  😁

Walt

[a griffin]

almost the same steps when restoring, with the exception of the gasoline wash, of course.

 

so steps 35 - 40, 12 coats of color? Seems excessive, I guess it was hand rubbed and not sprayed so that it didn't build material?

Also, what is step 46 - tint coat?

[Walt G]

The hand rubbing would have been the wet sanding and polishing out what had been sprayed on. Spray guns to apply paint had been used for 4 or more years by 1930, paint was not applied by brush by the manufacturers who produced cars in a fair quantity.. With the further development of lacquer spraying was the way it was applied . DuPont "Duco" was developed to speed up the drying time over hand brushing and a lot of effort and time needed to sand/polish out brush strokes. 12 coats of color is not excessive - most of that was sanded off in the "polishing" process . Many articles in the trade magazines of that era about the new ability to spray on paint.  These magazines were not for the most part available to or really cared about by the general car buying public as they were mostly technical.  Autobody Trimmer & Painter was one. Cooper's was another, and there were more.

[prewarnut]

Would we guess that the body would remain in the paint shop for a week? More? If so that really grinds the assembly line to a halt. From a manufacturing perspective the paint shop would need to take up a huge area to store that many bodies if the process within that "division" were to be, say, 15 times longer than engine installation or frame assembly, etc. I mean there are 7 kiln drying steps....wow!

[Walt G]

The fact that they were kiln dried means that the pace that they could be produced was faster. You don't have a body in a kiln for a lot of time! these were wood structural framed bodies! One needs to consider what manufacturer was here - luxury car production was much lower then the production for popular family more common and popular makes of cars . Lacquer drys fast and hardens to the point of being ready to surface finish with heat . Have you ever painted with lacquer? It "flashes off" (Drys to the touch ) fairly quickly.

I have painted several complete cars all pre WWII with lacquer and to get the painted surface ( primer or color coat) to set faster we used heat lamps.

[TAKerry]

Very interesting. I have never sprayed lacquer on a car but have done a lot of furniture and custom made cabinets. Lacquer is wonderful for that as it indeed dries about as fast as you can spray it.

[edinmass]

In other Pierce Arrow literature of the time, the factory explained that more than half the paint was wet sanded off the car. They claimed 16 gallons product was installed. It was a very specific advertisement explaining that they use the most expensive and detailed process in the car market. 

[trimacar]

In 1965, I was restoring a 1931 Chevrolet, local guy offered to paint it in lacquer.  In a warehouse, wet down floor, he’d spray 3 coats of paint, one right after another.  Let dry a day, we’d wet sand  the whole car, with a lot of color washed away.  Wipe down, three more coats, sand the next day.  We did that 5 times, 15 coats of paint but easily half sanded off.  Result was spectacular for the time. Over 50 years later the paint, where it hasn’t chipped away, is still nice.

[Walt G]

Dave your experience with what you state is exactly what I did in the 1971-74 era, for my 1931 Franklin and 1941 Packard. Wet the floor to keep any dust down, spray on some coats, sand it down, etc. The Franklin I did is still in its paint from that era and is at car shows and on tours to this day. If applied properly lacquer is durable and last a long time and on a car that can be driven thousands of miles for hours on end. The fellow that I worked with in his garage to paint my cars learned his skill/trade in the 1940s when lacquer was still a primary material for cars. He was a great teacher and it was all hands on from the first hour we started until we finished. It was a real "hands on" learning experience for me , one I have never forgotten and still use.

[trimacar]

Walt, mine was “hands on” also.  In fact, the fellow said he wouldn’t paint the car unless I was right there with him to help.  In the 1960s people were much more concerned about going down the road than having a perfect car, at least where I lived then (central Louisiana).  I couldn’t afford to chrome my bumpers on the 31 Chevy, painted them black, and not once did anyone comment on it back then, not at shows nor tours.  But, the paint job was great!   I started touring in 1967 when I was 16, driving my Chevy all over Louisiana.  How my parents let me do such a thing is beyond me, I was even checking in to motels on my own, which probably would be tough to do these days for a teenager.  It helped that a lot of the “old timers” took me under their wing.

[RansomEli]

Step 43. Clean body with gasoline. [!]

 

Step 50 is a "Parko Rub." Guess that means a rubbing/polishing compound?

 

Thanks for sharing. Very interesting info.

 

Can you imagine buying 16 gallons of paint in today's market, only to rub off 75%? We're talking approximately $6500 and up.

 

Edited July 31, 2021 by RansomEli (see edit history)

[8E45E]

9 minutes ago, trimacar said:

I was even checking in to motels on my own, which probably would be tough to do these days for a teenager.  

Back then, paying cash for hotel rooms, meals, fuel, and nearly everything else was 'the norm'.  I don't think one can rent a motel room these days without a credit card.

 

Craig

[TAKerry]

Unless its red, I know a guy that was getting some red for his RAM truck, it was something stupid like $800 a quart!!

[Walt G]

Dave, we have had nearly parallel experiences with the people we met and worked with! WOW. I had the same thing told to me - "will paint your car but you have to be here working side by side when it happens or it won't happen". Old timers taking one under their wing - indeed, true words.  Seems we both appreciated who was going to show us what, and how to do to get the end results.  Bob Patchke , my mentor also told me " when you are finished you will be ruined - you will never be able to look at another car again of any age without seeing any imperfections in the body and paint work, if it has a wavy panel, had a poor repair of metal, or putty in place of metal". He was right , add to that my obsession with period correct , authentic restorations using proper accessories etc. and I am not someone you want on a team judging cars. I saw this at the CCCA meet years ago in Shawnee ,Pa. - I wasn't overly critical but the head of the team I was on , Bruce Lane, chuckled everytime I made a comment. This was decades ago and Bruce told the other guys on the judging team "Walt is a historian , so is sharp when it comes to what is correct"...... he laughed after saying that and the others on the team just snickered.

No. I do not judge cars, rarely did before, never now.

Edited July 31, 2021 by Walt G
corrected word (see edit history)

[trimacar]

That’s interesting, Walt.  I knew, early on, cars backwards and forwards, since I’d restored one and been taught what to look for.   In my 30s, I judged a few times at CCCA Grand Classics, mostly in Texas.   I was soon sort of left out of consideration for judging, as even minor faults told me that people were just trying to “skate by” with shock and awe of a great car.  Thus, a rare car was skimmed over, a average production car nit picked to death.  Just not my thing.

 

I had the good fortune to be liked by the very few good mentors in Louisiana at the time.  Thus, I had a pleasant old car experience which made me continue in the hobby.  At 16, I owned a 31 Chevy and a 25 Dodge coupe.  At 21, I had four cars, at 25 a dozen, at 30 two 40x60 metal buildings chock full of early cars, 55 Chevy convertible and Nomad, 57 Chevy convertible and beautiful original 57 two door hardtop, the list is long, early Reo, Cord sedan, many others. Over 200 cars in the last 50 years, many of them Full Classics.

 

Its been a great hobby and it all started with good people caring about me and nurturing my love of old cars.

[60FlatTop]

23 hours ago, Walt G said:

Seems we both appreciated who was going to show us what, and how to do to get the end results. 

In the 1990's I did a lot of collector car servicing after my regular job. At the time I charged $40 per hour and much of the work was time consuming. One customer had a low mileage '41 Cadillac. that All the door rubber had dried out and the hood bumpers were gone. I gave a quote to do the doors and hood rubber for about $600. That was what he had paid for the car in 1964. I told him I would deduct $15 per hour for the time he helped. He knew we would surely be done by lunchtime on the planned Saturday.

He arrived and I showed him the basics of scraping off the alligatored door rubber. "You take one side, I will take the other" and I started in the tight doorpost area.

 

About 45 minutes later he came around to my side of the car soaked with sweat. "Would you give me a ride home?" I allowed him a full hour and didn't charge for the time taking him home. Never a complaint bout price after that. You gotta watch your perception with those old guys. Yes, they can teach.

 

A decade or so later I was subcontracting my non-automotive business with an engineering company that wanted me to teach one of their clients how to do my service. At I personally showed their lead person the ropes. 😄 They graciously deferred future contracts to me.

 

Well, got to take my wife to get groceries. She doesn't let me go alone anymore.

[58L-Y8]

The painting process was a terrible production bottleneck before Duco.  Labor-intensive, space and time-consuming, increasing so as the nameplate prestige and price escalated.  Runs and imperfections might be tolerated on low-priced cars, were absolutely anathema on a luxury make.  Small wonder turning to outside body companies for that major component was standard practice early on.   The development of fast-drying finishes coupled with stamped all-steel bodies hastened the demise of dozens of small body makers. 

 

BTW, I'd spring for number 18 on that Pierce-Arrow color options list.

[Walt G]

Pre lacquer era during the early car days going back into the horse drawn era. This is why Brewster and Co. had such a huge multi story factory building complex at the east end of the 59th Street Bridge ( Queensboro Bridge or is it now the Ed Koch Bridge - gets a new name every century or so ) since they were hand brush painting the bodies they built.  The varnish based paint took days to dry , so the bodies had to be stored in proper conditions to allow that to happen. You would be amazed at what was sold when the contents of that Building were auctioned off in 1937, which I have a copy of.  Barrels of paint, nails, etc. everything and anything to do with body construction plus about 15+ complete cars in assorted conditions.  That is a topic for another story in itself.