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1968 Ford F250 - The daily driver


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This is a really great project!  Textbook case of how to do it right a little bit at a time.   Two broken bolts leading to a rebuild is a common story but one that has to be told to do it right.   Excited to follow the rest of the story.

 

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22 hours ago, Luv2Wrench said:

This is a really great project!  Textbook case of how to do it right a little bit at a time.   Two broken bolts leading to a rebuild is a common story but one that has to be told to do it right.   Excited to follow the rest of the story.

 

Thank you for the kind words!

 

I didn't want to dive into the engine so soon but them's the breaks.

 

I was hoping to get a year or two with just light mechanical repair under the hood but when I found what I found AND it was already out of the truck... The payoff will be many years of good service so I'm not bummed about it, I just wish the machine shops were faster. I've had this engine out trying to get machined for a year now, it's at shop #2 after I took it back from shop #1 due to inaction. It's just getting so hard to get work done these days. I knew I would be rebuilding the engine on this truck while buying it at some near point so it wasn't a surprise. 

 

The good news is that once the engine is rebuilt I should be able to pop it in and go, 95% of everything else has been restored to working order at this point on the truck. I plan to build a test stand and break the engine in outside the truck so I can deal with any hiccups more easily. Looking forward to firing up the 360 turned 390 for the first time this winter! I'll also be curious to do some mpg testing in the spring as I'm building it for fuel economy. Well, as much fuel economy as a 60's 3/4 ton truck shaped brick can have, lol!

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18 hours ago, real77 said:

Very cool truck ! I have a soft spot for this vintage truck,

Me too!

 

Machine shop called last Thursday and said the work is done. Just waiting for the bearings to show and I'll pick it all up. Cleared out a spot in the shop for engine assembly today in preparation. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Where to begin... 

 

This engine certainly has been a drama... First machine shop had it for 4 months and extended their initial time estimate by another 4 months once the first 4 had elapsed. I pulled it out of there and sat on it until spring when I took it to shop #2, where it sat all summer until they started working on it again in mid September. Between then and now there was a host of parts availability issues due to the supply line situation that had to be overcome. 

 

I got it back last week. The block was bored and decked, rods were sized and the shop provided a crank they had for turning the 360 into a 390. 

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I laid the stuff out for measuring yesterday and all went well until I got to the crank. When setting the crank in the bearings it refused to turn even oiled up. I put the caps on and torqued them down correctly and it would barely turn, way to tight. I knew something was up so I popped the caps off and find some of the bearings are marked up big time. 

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Not a happy camper. On top of that I found some pitting on the crank. I know a little is ok but for the money I shelled out that crank should be pit free. It may not be detrimental to the engine but it bugs the heck out of me. Close enough for government work doesn't cut it around here.

 

I took the crank and bearings back to the machinist this evening. I had told him this AM I would like to return the crank and bearings for a refund but he asked for a chance to make it right repeatedly so I gave him a chance, maybe foolish on my part... Time will tell. His work on the bores was good, no issues there. I had initially requested the block be align bored when I first dropped it off, so far he has resisted doing this but I think I am correct in my initial assumption that the block does need this. The wear pattern on the original bearings support my theory, it was either that or a bent crank. Since this is a different crank with the same offending bearing damage on new bearings it's got to be the mains bore.

 

Some days you just want to light it all on fire and roll it down a hill.

Edited by Lahti35 (see edit history)
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Problem located!

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I found it when getting the block ready for it's return trip. Something at some point got in between the 3rd main bearing (thrust) and the block as it was torqued down. It deformed both sides of the seam and pushed some material outward into the bore causing the bearing to be pinched against the crank. 

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I recall seeing a divot in the block when I did the initial take down but didn't look close at it really. I had planned on having the mains bored anyway so I wasn't concerned. The original bearings had a strange wear pattern with the worst being the 3rd main so I believe this was present at the factory. I'm 99.9% sure this engine was never opened up from what I found on takedown. 

 

I've parted ways with the machinist who had been working on it, we came to an agreement that worked for both of us. He did offer to bore the mains (I showed him a picture of issue) but I don't feel comfy taking the block back. I took it to a different shop for the line boring, no idea when it will come back. Until then it will sit, I need a break from all this stress. I'm now tasked with finding another crank as I returned the shop supplied one. I have a lead that will hopefully work out.  

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  • 4 weeks later...

I got the block back from the new machinist in 4 days. That was a nice change! He was able to clean up the main bore with honing and we should be all set. 

 

I finally found a different crank. It wasn't cheep but a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. My other option was to spend half a day driving to get a core that may or may not be good, have it checked for cracks and machined if it passed... if not I'd need another core to try again. I decided to go for a known good crank and pay the extra $$$ up front.

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The next issue was bearings. While the .020" under main bearings are available the .020" connecting rod bearings are out of stock until mid January. What a deal, I could have had all this stuff taken care if this summer if machinist #2 hadn't hosed me. I did some searching and maybe found a set of the connecting rod bearings at a reasonable price. I did find a few other sets but they were hugely overpriced, preying on that one guy who just has to have them. We'll see if the ones I ordered are in stock and actually ship out, "in stock" doesn't seem to mean what it used to.

 

In other news since parts hunting as become my national past time I figured I better buy a parts truck just in case I need anything else...

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Just kidding! It will be a nice little diversion though, I'm going to do it up as the truck was when I got it delivered. 

Edited by Lahti35 (see edit history)
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The new crank worked great, I set it in the block and it spun with no problems. Align bore saves the day! 

 

I warmed up the shop today with the wood stove all afternoon to bring things up to temp for checking things with plastigauge. It took most of the afternoon but the mains and rod bearings checked out ok. Mains were at .0015" and the rods were .002", I also checked the crank for straightness and that came out at .0003 so we're good to go. 

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Between the Nash and the Ford I really got beat up crawling around stuff, I'm not 20 anymore LOL! Next house gets a life in the garage. 

I've got some vacation coming the first of the year so I'm looking at assembling the short block then, long time coming...

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  • 3 months later...

I think I finally have 99% of everything set to put this critter back together... After X-mas I found that the rods rebuilt by machine shop #2 were poorly done, after buying 2 sets to rebuild and getting hosed twice I bought some rebuilt rods and found two of those were bad... jeez! Long story short machine shop #3 sized the rebuilt rods after installing new hardened bolts and balanced the entire rotating assembly. One would hope all the demons have been exercised and I don't have to get mad at it anymore! 

 

Three machine shops and nearly two years to get what used to be simple stuff done, unbelievable. I guess I know where NOT to go for work now😆

 

Now that the '25 Nash work is at a slow down with the water pump it's time to get back to this truck in the next 7-10 days with a repeat of measuring all the clearances. Once we're over that hump we'll be in new the uncharted territory of engine assembly, I can't even imagine!   

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I cloistered myself in the shop this afternoon after I warmed it up to get started measuring clearances, again. It was rainy today, I like to light a fire in the shop this time of year when it's wet out to keep things from rusting. Since I warmed it up I figured I might as well do the un-fun and get it out of the way.

 

I cleaned everything up good and did the piston rings first, everything was in spec. The main bearings were next and they were ok too.

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Clearance came out at .0015", when I cleaned the plastigauge off the crank/bearings and retorqued with some oil it spun freely as it should. Next I put the pistons on the rods and got them set for checking the rod clearance.

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Unfortunately I found an issue with #8 rod, the wrist pin bushing was clocked out of line with the oil hole in the rod. It had closed off half of the opening and that couldn't be good... I opened up the hole and deburred it but it just looks like crap so I'll drop it by the machine shop for a new bushing Monday. 

 

Checking the rod clearances went ok, no issues there and they came out to just under .002".

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I'd like to get the short block assembled in the next 2-3 weeks assuming no more surprises. The weather is getting nicer, into the 50's now so I can clean the parts outside for final assembly. I want my shop space back too, this engine has been sprawled over two workbenches, the floor, my desk, and the bed of the truck for what seems like years now...

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On 3/27/2023 at 8:34 PM, EmTee said:

Progress!  ;)

Yes, it's exciting.. I was excited, beyond thrilled! ....And then I found out I had ordered the wrong camshaft last year and the right one is backordered for at least 2-3 weeks and maybe more. I suppose it's better to find out now than after the install but dang, this engine has bad mojo surrounding it. I'm going to hang some garlic on it and see if I can't drive out the remaining voodoo for a smooth assembly. We'll get there yet!

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Hard to believe a camshaft for an FE Ford V8 would be hard to get, but these days I still see "Help Wanted" signs everywhere and random shortages persist.  The most surprising thing to me about your experience with this rebuild is the number of errors you uncovered on work that you paid a machine shop to perform.  I guess it likely goes back to my first post-pandemic observation above...

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I don't recall if you said what kind of cam you had ordered. Is it a stock grind? Do I understand there is no ETA?

 

On my 390 I had the original blank reground at Delta Cams (Tacoma, WA). If I remember correctly it took about a day or two. It surprised me how fast they turned it around. I could have walked out with one on the same visit had I wanted to exchange, as it turned out to be a fairly common 390 grind. They do custom grinds too, and have been a go-to for that here in the PNW for decades. Maybe worth a phone call if you aren't getting what you want from your normal sources.

 

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On 3/31/2023 at 6:48 PM, EmTee said:

Hard to believe a camshaft for an FE Ford V8 would be hard to get, but these days I still see "Help Wanted" signs everywhere and random shortages persist.  The most surprising thing to me about your experience with this rebuild is the number of errors you uncovered on work that you paid a machine shop to perform.  I guess it likely goes back to my first post-pandemic observation above...

It's been frightening the number of issues I found. If I didn't have some experience I would have just put it together and had a failure in short order. 

 

Over the course of this adventure, cam bearings, wrist pin bushings, rod bearings, lifters and camshafts have all been backordered... Not all at once either, it's like one part will become unobtainable and when that one is back in stock a different one will run dry. Frustrating but not insurmountable. 

 

I was talking with the guy at the parts counter at the machine shop when I picked up the re-bushed rod and he echoed my comments to him about parts availability. You would think it wouldn't be an issue with such a popular series of engine but here we are. I was at the drive through for a local chicken restaurant an hour ago because they have their dining room closed for lack of staff like many restaurants around my are off an on lately. Everything just seems to be one big mess...

 

 

20 hours ago, Bloo said:

I don't recall if you said what kind of cam you had ordered. Is it a stock grind? Do I understand there is no ETA?

 

On my 390 I had the original blank reground at Delta Cams (Tacoma, WA). If I remember correctly it took about a day or two. It surprised me how fast they turned it around. I could have walked out with one on the same visit had I wanted to exchange, as it turned out to be a fairly common 390 grind. They do custom grinds too, and have been a go-to for that here in the PNW for decades. Maybe worth a phone call if you aren't getting what you want from your normal sources.

 

It's a Crower cam ground for low RPM torque and improved MPG (this brick needs all the help it can get). I got a response from them yesterday giving me a 2-3 week timeline. I'll stay with them as I have work I can do between now and then, hopefully they deliver. If It gets to be a ways down the road with no cam I'll look into regrinding the stock one, a good idea... Thanks!

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I got the re-bushed rod back from the machine shop and put that together this afternoon. I also spent an hour rechecking 3 of the rod bearing for clearance. Through all this assembly/disassembly, parts storage and handling a few of the rod bearings picked up some junk that imbedded in them so I got a few new ones to swap out the ones I didn't like. No drama, clearance was good with the new bearings. 

 

Once that was done I decided to install the piston rings on the pistons and that went good also. 

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I triple checked to make sure all the rods, pistons and rings are all facing the right directions and are right side up. Here they are sittin' pretty ready to go.

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Fortune smiled on me this week and I received the new camshaft only 8 days after they told me 2-3 weeks so that is good! Fedex dropped it off in the afternoon after they had already been here in the AM for a different delivery, they like to keep you on the edge of your seat I guess. 

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I removed the battery cables and alternator out of the truck to check condition and get lengths for new cables. The smallest gauge cable was the one feeding the starter! None of these are over 4ga and the starter cable is smaller than those. I was surprised to see a 60's Ford part number on the starter cable, crazy how small a cable they used. I'll be upgrading to 0 gauge cables from a guy on ebay that makes them custom for you. 

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The alternator itself will be replaced with a similar unit but with a bit more power. You can upgrade these to a new 1 wire internal regulator unit but I don't see the need. Wiring would have to be modified and I'm not running any heavy electrical draw devices so I'll stick with a new retro one that's 10amps over stock but looks original. The old one will go to the parts shelf. 

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The wiring on the back of the alternator had gotten hot at some point, the wiring itself looked ok so it wasn't that... I suspect the exhaust manifold got too close and melted it. I freed the wires from the extra crispy molded connector end and will wrap them in some heavy heat shrink.

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I also pulled down the rocker arm assemblies to clean and check. They did not want to come apart without a fight! I ended up having to cut one into three parts even after cleaning the gunk off it. The rocker stands just did not want to slide off.

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Cutting them up didn't matter as the shafts were worn on the bottom side pretty good, enough to cause slop... I ordered new shafts to replace the old ones. Once the rocker arms were cleaned up they looked good. I may replace them with adjustable rocker arms, it's a better setup.

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Throughout the day I was busy degreasing, cleaning and priming engine parts. Some I had done a rough cleaning on before but they all need to be finished up before priming. On nasty parts I like to use oven cleaner and let it sit 30 minutes in the shade so it doesn't dry out.

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I clean the oven cleaner off with brushes and water, followed by a good soapy brush scrubbing and a dry down with towels. Final drying is done by setting parts on my stove to drive out the remaining moisture. Dries them out fast and keeps flash rust away. 

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Then I paint with self etching primer... Once the engine is together I'll paint it blue.

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Some greasy parts that don't require paint ,like this splash shield, are just coated with some liquid wrench to keep rust away.

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Edited by Lahti35 (see edit history)
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21 hours ago, Lahti35 said:

The wiring on the back of the alternator had gotten hot at some point, the wiring itself looked ok so it wasn't that... I suspect the exhaust manifold got too close and melted it. I freed the wires from the extra crispy molded connector end and will wrap them in some heavy heat shrink.

 

Take a good close look. A poor connection will do that. It's possible they cooked it from the inside.

 

21 hours ago, Lahti35 said:

Cutting them up didn't matter as the shafts were worn on the bottom side pretty good, enough to cause slop... I ordered new shafts to replace the old ones. Once the rocker arms were cleaned up they looked good. I may replace them with adjustable rocker arms, it's a better setup.

The rockers are probably worn too, not that I think it makes much difference, but it does affect preload. At least check the preload when you assemble. Don't soak your lifters because that makes it too tough to do. Ford's instructions in the manual are bad advice according to the guy who ground the cam, and he was probably correct because careful measurement of my original parts (1970 390-2V) revealed Ford wasn't following those instructions either when they built it. Not even close. If I remember correctly he told me to shoot for .030-.060. Tighter is OK if necessary, but you wouldn't want to be looser for obvious reasons.

 

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3 hours ago, Laughing Coyote said:

Tell me about clean up. This stuff wouldn't come off. Had to hot tank it at the engine shop 3 times to get it clean.

 

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You win, mine was gunky but not that bad! 

 

I'm following your thread, always enjoy the updates! You're doing a great job on that car.

Edited by Lahti35 (see edit history)
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3 hours ago, Bloo said:

Take a good close look. A poor connection will do that. It's possible they cooked it from the inside.

 

The rockers are probably worn too, not that I think it makes much difference, but it does affect preload. At least check the preload when you assemble. Don't soak your lifters because that makes it too tough to do. Ford's instructions in the manual are bad advice according to the guy who ground the cam, and he was probably correct because careful measurement of my original parts (1970 390-2V) revealed Ford wasn't following those instructions either when they built it. Not even close. If I remember correctly he told me to shoot for .030-.060. Tighter is OK if necessary, but you wouldn't want to be looser for obvious reasons.

 

The wiring is ok inside the molded rubber, the heat definitely came from outside only. Could have been the leaky manifold or proximity to it... I'll be sure to check how close it is when I install the new one.

 

I'll definitely be checking preload and that's good advice about not priming the lifters... Your clearance speck is right on. I didn't bother checking the shafts as bought new ones to replace the badly worn set. As soon as I get my adjustable arms I'll set them up and figure push rod length and rocker shaft/arm clearance.

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I did the final final clean and primed the intake this AM...

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I also installed the plugs in the block. I used 1 49/64" brass plugs instead of the 1 3/4" more common plugs that come in the plug kits as they fit tighter. I sand blasted the concave part of the plugs before install to give them more tooth for paint to hold... I hate it when the paint peels off of the plugs. 

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After Easter dinner I did the final final cleaning of the block and taped it off for priming. No drama here, I wiped it down with lacquer thinner until the rags came out clean and let it dry. It primed nice and is ready for camshaft bearing install.

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I had planned to install the cam, crank and pistons/rods this weekend but what I got was a front row seat at disaster central...

 

I set about installing the cam bearings early in the week and messed one up due to putting 1 layer of tape on the installer to keep any scratching at bay... bad idea! My installer has a solid metal driver with no give, once the bearing was in it compressed enough to grab the driver and tape and locked itself in there. Removal deformed the babbitt, oops!

 

My new bearing set showed up Friday so I replaced the one cam bearing I wrecked and attempted to install the old cam to check for fit and rotation. Darn thing locked up and was way too hard to turn when fully installed. With up to 4 of the cam bearing surfaces in the bearings it would turn great but not with all 5 in position. 

 

Ok no problem, I decided to replace the remaining 4 cam bearings from the original set that had installed ok without the infernal tape on the driver. I installed the cam again and it was worse. By this time it's late Friday night and the weekend is off to a great start! I ordered another set of cam bearings and fumed until Sunday. 

 

Sunday AM I got the great idea that I should have had way sooner to measure the runout on the old camshaft I was using to test and...

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So runout is up to .004" max, turns out the old cam is at .016"... That would do it.

 

I put the new cam in the lathe and it's under spec. I should have just used the new cam but I was trying to keep it clean for the real install. When the new new new set of cam bearings come in I'll go another round.

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I did have some success over the weekend and was able to assemble the rocker arms. I gave up on finding an adjustable set and just stuck with what I had. I measured the clearance between the bore of the rocker and the new shafts and it came in at .003" which is under the .006" max spec. 

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I tracked down a power steering cooler also... I've been looking for one of these for awhile. My truck is a little early for it to be authentic but the Bendix steering runs somewhat hot so I want to give it all the help I can. Condition was fair with one semi squashed tube end.

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I straightened some fins, zapped the part with oven cleaner, and let it sit...

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Oven cleaner works great! Grease stands no chance. I was able to un-squash the tube end also, not perfect but much better.

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I then lightly blasted it to remove some flaking paint and repainted.

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Edited by Lahti35 (see edit history)
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12 hours ago, EmTee said:

Is the original cam cast iron?  If so, I would think it would be more likely to break than bend.  Hopefully the next attempt will be successful...  ;)

I believe it is cast iron... 

 

I'm hoping a new set of bearings and just checking them with the new cam allows me to move past this impasse!

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On 4/18/2023 at 7:29 AM, EmTee said:

Say, do you have two of those mudflaps?  What does the rest of it look like?  A pair of those would probably look great on your truck!  ;)

I don't sadly...They are cool! The pic is from the seller as I neglected to take a pic of how scuzzy the part was before I started cleaning. I do have a set of Montana "Big Sky Country" flaps that are original to the truck that I will run.

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12 hours ago, ericmac said:

I continue to enjoy following your thread. You are making impressive progress. 

Thank you! 

 

I feel like once I get over these came bearings it will be smoother sailing. I look back at how much I've done sometimes as I tend to forget about it and focus on stuff to be done... It's amazing the amount of work that can go into these old vehicles.

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  • 2 months later...

Work on Satan's personal Ford V8 continues... 

 

I've only been able to work on it for a bit here and there with a massive cleanout/reorganization/reprioritization of my shop for the last 6 weeks. Let me assure you though it's still putting up a fight!

 

I finally got the heads on and pushrods measured 2 weeks ago so I could order the correct length pushrod set, 4 week wait for those... One just has to laugh at the state of parts ordering today. This should be the last hold up, I'm crossing my fingers that I get it buttoned up and on the test stand in 3 weeks. 

 

 

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Over the last 6 weeks I got the the block mostly assembled. I neglected many pictures due to the aggravating nature of this block of iron but here's where it stands now...

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I did have some trouble with the cam gear... I kept putting it on and trying to figure out why the pin that runs through it into the cam wasn't protruding enough to pin the fuel pump eccentric. Turns out the original cam gear had a separate spacer which was machined onto the new cam gear. In effect I was doubling the spacers, once I ditched the old spacer it all fit right. The drama has since been hidden by the timing cover...

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Once the heads were on I stuck the rocker shaft assembly and oil tray on for pushrod measurement.

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This handy tool worked a treat and was well worth it's minimal cost. 

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Once the tool was inserted between the lifter and the rocker arm the rocker assembly was torqued into place it was time to extend the tool until it just dragged a bit. 

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Measurements came out very close. I was able to order one size of pushrods and get the correct preload for all 16. That was good, I didn't have to keep track of what rods need to go where. They are a custom size at 9.220" but I ordered them from a reputable company so I don't anticipate issues with accuracy within the set. I'll measure them all anyway, can't be to careful. 

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I'm holding off putting the intake manifold on until the pushrods get here, I'd like to give the lifters a final lube before it goes on since they've been sitting for awhile now. 

 

 

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