Is this 1934 Packard correct?

[West Peterson]

1 hour ago, bryankazmer said:

I thought the "brown bomber" referred to an iteration of MacCauley's often redone car, which in its last iteration shows a resemblance to what the 22nd series cars would be.

 

 

 

For some reason, I was thinking that both cars received that nickname. I guess I could be wrong.

 

[West Peterson]

On 2/5/2021 at 9:51 AM, 8E45E said:

Correct, now that I think about it!

 

 

 

Craig

 

Ooops. I meant 1939 had the alternating painted louvers. Thanks for posting the photos. I remember seeing this car in the 1970s when Howard Vigen of Willmar, Minnesota, owned it.

[packard12man]

The green speedster, being in the Lee collection, who are famous for researching and putting their cars back to their original configuration ie. the two Hispano's shown at Pebble a few years back that were owned new by the Rothchild's were both restored back to their original colours.  I'd bet a dime to a donut that the speedster was probably delivered new in its green livery.  Anyone of the four would be worth a kings ransom.  In my opinion, they would have looked a lot better mounted on the 142 inch wheel base chassis.  

 

Brian

[edinmass]

The stuff in the Lee collection from the little I have seen, has all been first rate. 

[Graham Man]

I agree on the grill being painted, after looking closer at the green car, the headlight rings are chrome, and the headlight buckets are painted, just like this car.

 

should we open another hornets nest?   white walls....

 

 

Edited February 7, 2021 by Graham Man (see edit history)

[SC38dls]

Let me say I know nothing about any of the history except what I have read here. That being said, if these cars are so well known and in famous collections isn’t there a very complete providence record for them?  Wouldn’t that include either build sheets (if that is what you would call custom body build orders) and/or pictures from back in the day?  You may not be able to see the exact color in a pic but I would think you could tell if the radiator slats were painted or chrome. Just asking as I believe that would give everyone a definitive answer on at least one of the questions. 
dave s 

[alsancle]

There are no build sheets to my knowledge.   Packard is not like Cadillac.    And the histories of every car are not tracked like Duesenberg.  The 4 cars in question are known back 50 years or so to get past the body builder phase in the 70s and 80s were new coachwork started to pop up.    In some cases the original owner may be known,   but in others probably not.   

[8E45E]

20 hours ago, alsancle said:

There are no build sheets to my knowledge.   Packard is not like Cadillac.    And the histories of every car are not tracked like Duesenberg.  The 4 cars in question are known back 50 years or so to get past the body builder phase in the 70s and 80s were new coachwork started to pop up.    In some cases the original owner may be known,   but in others probably not.   

I wonder if there are any records from the selling dealer that still exist, including either the order documents stating the production deviation, or their copy of the Bill of Sale.

 

Craig

[alsancle]

4 minutes ago, 8E45E said:

I wonder if there are any records from the selling dealer that still exist, including either the order documents stating the production deviation, or their copy of the Bill of Sale.

 

Craig

 

Only if someone happened hold on to them when the dealership went under.   Typically nobody cared about paperwork.

 

When Stutz was having their bankruptcy auction,  all the stuff in the file cabinets got thrown on the floor so they could sell the cabinets.    Somebody did grab some paperwork but maybe 2% of what was there.

[8E45E]

23 minutes ago, alsancle said:

 

Only if someone happened hold on to them when the dealership went under.   Typically nobody cared about paperwork.

 

When Stutz was having their bankruptcy auction,  all the stuff in the file cabinets got thrown on the floor so they could sell the cabinets.    Somebody did grab some paperwork but maybe 2% of what was there.

There is always that 50/50 chance they still exist. 

 

The chances of a 'mom & pop' operation retaining their records would most likely be greater than a huge corporation as its part of their memoirs of being in business.  I do know the son of the Studebaker dealer in Clive, a small Alberta town kept his late father's old sales invoices from the end of the second world war until 1966 when he sold the last Studebaker he could get before they ceased production.  As well, a prominent poster on the SDC Forum, who's father was a Packard, Studebaker, Nash, and Willys dealers at different instances has his father's old records and shared them on that forum from time to time when a subject on a particular car comes up.  https://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/forum/your-studebaker-forum/general-studebaker-specific-discussion/112048-my-how-things-change

 

Craig

Edited February 8, 2021 by 8E45E (see edit history)

[West Peterson]

2 hours ago, 8E45E said:

There is always that 50/50 chance they still exist. 

 

The chances of a 'mom & pop' operation retaining their records would most likely be greater than a huge corporation as its part of their memoirs of being in business.  I do know the son of the Studebaker dealer in Clive, a small Alberta town kept his late father's old sales invoices from the end of the second world war until 1966 when he sold the last Studebaker he could get before they ceased production.  As well, a prominent poster on the SDC Forum, who's father was a Packard, Studebaker, Nash, and Willys dealers at different instances has his father's old records and shared them on that forum from time to time when a subject on a particular car comes up.  https://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/forum/your-studebaker-forum/general-studebaker-specific-discussion/112048-my-how-things-change

 

Craig

 

For the most part, "mom and pop" operations DID NOT handle the custom-bodied cars. Those were almost always handled by Packard Distributors.

[Restorer32]

A few years ago we sold a '39 Rollson bodied Packard. Happily we had the original drawing and specs for the car including the notes where the buyer specified mods, colors and upholstery materials but such documentation is rare.

[alsancle]

1 hour ago, Restorer32 said:

A few years ago we sold a '39 Rollson bodied Packard. Happily we had the original drawing and specs for the car including the notes where the buyer specified mods, colors and upholstery materials but such documentation is rare.

 

The Rollston/Rollson situation is different than all most all the others.   Rudy Creteaur and then his son had all or most of the build sheets for each Rollston body.  Some of them got borrowed and lost over the years.   I'm not sure that sort of archive exists for any other coachbuilder and definitely not Lebaron.

[Restorer32]

We spoke with Rudy's Son a few years.  Rollson/Rollston's last iteration was making galley equipment for submarines and aircraft.

[8E45E]

22 hours ago, West Peterson said:

 

For the most part, "mom and pop" operations DID NOT handle the custom-bodied cars. Those were almost always handled by Packard Distributors.

I would not expect a dealer invoice to state much info on a custom body car even if they did handle the transaction, anyway.  The invoice would most likely only state the chassis/serial number & wheelbase with a note referring to the body builder.  

 

Craig

[alsancle]

I have an invoice from 1936 where one of these runabouts was traded towards a 500K Mercedes in NY.    It says "Packard 12 Cylinder Lebaron Speedster".    On some trades you might see the engine or chassis # also.

Edited February 9, 2021 by alsancle (see edit history)

[John_Mereness]

 

[8E45E]

On 2/4/2021 at 2:05 PM, nzcarnerd said:

Hopefully not getting too far off topic; - As far as I know this one's (with the plate HN1931) colours are (sort of) correct. It was restored in New Zealand in the 1970s and is still with the same family. I know that in very conservative 1970s New Zealand (remember this was before the technology revolution) the owner was 'not held in high regard' by some. 

 

A google image search for 'plaidside roadster will find a few more in the US.

 

The following was posted on a local facebook page by the son of the 1970s owner - "My father’s 66B Great 6 roadster which he purchased in 1974 from the late Doug Griffin in Ashburton. At the time Ron was working on his 1925 W-K model 65 tourer when he heard of another W-K locally. The tourer has since moved out of the country into Switzerland. The 66B was hand painted in black but still the unique bodylines (by Griswold) stood out. The car was restored by the late Ray Hoskin in Ashburton for $3/hour and finished in time for the 1980 VCC International Rally held at Rotorua. The first photo is from the Griffin family, second pic soon after restoration. The third photo is a car from the US - photo sent over by the WOKR originally showing the outrageous colour scheme that we were led to believe was factory correct during the ‘70s. However now there is dispute over the orange bonnet. We have history of the car dating back to around 1945. Before then is very sketchy but often heard about another roadster potentially being in the Nth Island (never proven however). Fourth pic - period pic of Grace Moore at the wheel of a roadster.  Fifth pic - this beautiful 66B Phaeton resides in the US - 1 of 2 Plaidside phaetons produced. Both still exist."

 

 

 

 

 

 

Repainting a 'Plaidside' will be a piece of cake now with ABB's new 'Pixel Paint' applicator: https://new.abb.com/products/robotics/manufacturing-solutions/paint-process-automation/pixelpaint

 

 https://new.abb.com/news/detail/67469/abb-unmasks-the-future-of-customized-automotive-painting-with-pixelpaint

 

 

[Pilgrim65]

Eye opening thread , some wonderful cars , interesting colours , but as it was a Packard that initiated discussion , although I have posted this photo before , post again as still my dream car 

[West Peterson]

On 4/10/2021 at 6:18 PM, Pilgrim65 said:

Eye opening thread , some wonderful cars , interesting colours , but as it was a Packard that initiated discussion , although I have posted this photo before , post again as still my dream car 

 

That would be a LOT more affordable than a real one. This one was built on a 1937 chassis a few years ago.

[Pilgrim65]

6 hours ago, West Peterson said:

 

That would be a LOT more affordable than a real one. This one was built on a 1937 chassis a few years ago.

Quite right , but we’re still asking 360000 stg outside my budget