1919 & 1920 Cole Motor Cars

[George Cole]

The 1920 was advertised and purchased as a 7-passenger touring car.  I'm not sure that's correct.  As already mentioned, I have no history on the car and have no confirmation of what it might or might not have been other than the hardware in front of me.  The only paperwork I have on the car is what I generated.  More on that a little later when I address getting the car legally titled and registered in my name in Florida.

 

The 1920 did not come with jump seats and there's no evidence it ever had them.  Cole Car jump seats partially fold into the floor and partially into the front seat back.  The entire floor of the car has been replaced, and there are no recesses for the jump seats to fold into.  This does not prove or disprove it had jump seats.  But my front seat back appears to be completely original, in excellent condition, and has no provisions for jump seats to recess into when folded.  To me that is clear evidence this was not a 7-passenger touring car.  Most likely it was a 5-passenger open touring car or a 4-passenger sportster. Mechanically the open cars were all the same.  The only difference was the interior seating configuration.  As this car doesn't have jump seats or any indication they ever existed, unless something changes throughout the course of the restoration, I may be restoring it as a 4-passenger sportster.  

 

 

Edited January 31, 2021 by George Cole
Duplicate post. (see edit history)

[George Cole]

Here's some more pictures showing the inner cowl sheet metal and wood framing.  Anyone disagree that it doesn't look to be in pretty good shape for being 101 years old?

[George Cole]

The touring car came without a gas tank.  It has 2 tank straps, but no tank.  The roadster came with no tank straps, and a tank that looked like swiss cheese.  Someone started cutting some of the rust away perhaps to rebuild the tank, but given the extent of the rust, I decided it would be senseless to try and repair it.  I sent it to a fabrication shop to use as a pattern, and requested 2 new stainless steel tanks and 2 straps be fabricated.  The salesman told me they had over a 2-month backlog.  That was over 3 months ago, so sometime soon I need to follow up with them. I only have one filler neck, and no gauge for either tank, so have been looking for those.

Edited January 28, 2021 by George Cole (see edit history)

[George Cole]

I removed the right front fender to fix the damage.  The edge was cracked in 2 places.  I drilled the edge of the cracks and brazed the cracks back together.  I brazed the hole where the inner support rivet had torn through the sheet metal, and then re-drilled the hole.  I hammered and hammered and hammered some more.  Finally got it close to where it should be and laid on many, many layers of fiberglass gel...sanding them mostly back off again as I hammered some more.  Still not finished but looking much, much better.  Rehung the fender on the car to take some updated pictures.  Need to remove it again to finish what I've started, but so far haven't got back to it.  Sorry, no pictures.  I took some and don't know what I did with them.  They might have gotten inadvertently deleted. 

 

[George Cole]

Recently I've been working on the manifolds, carburetor, and linkages for it and the spark advance.  1919 and 1920 Cole Cars had slightly different 5-piece manifolds, although it appears they are interchangeable from year-to-year as long as they are kept as a set.  The three-piece intake manifold is aluminum.  The exhaust manifolds are cast iron.  For 1920, the manifolds were changed allowing exhaust to be routed inside the top of the intake manifold, to help vaporize the gas.  The earlier manifold sets used engine water (coolant) to heat the upper manifold and help vaporize the gas.  Although most certainly an issue in cold, northern climates, it may not be as important of an issue here in here in central FL.  My 1920 touring car came with no manifolds.  The 1919 roadster came with what initially appeared to be 2 sets...one for a 1919 (with water heat tubes,) and one for a 1920 (with exhaust heat tubes).  On closer inspection, as it turns out, I'm not that lucky.  The 1920  manifold set has 2 left exhaust manifolds and no right.  So until I find a 1920  right exhaust manifold, I'll use the 1919 set on the touring car.  Here's pictures of the 1920 set, minus the missing right exhaust manifold.  You can see the holes in the exhaust manifold where the top of the intake manifold pipes insert to route exhaust heat into each side of the upper intake manifold.  The upper manifold is also drilled and tapped for primer cups.  This is the set I will not be using for now, until I find the correct right manifold to complete the set.  If and when I get to the point where the roadster is ready to run and I haven't found the correct manifold, I have a possible work-around.  But for now I'll keep looking.

Edited January 30, 2021 by George Cole (see edit history)

[George Cole]

I do not have individual component pictures of the 1919 set like I just posted of the 1920 set.  The 1919 manifold set which I will be using is shown here on the touring car engine block, with a Stromberg carb attached.   You can see where the manifolds do not have the extra holes and pipes for the exhaust heat to be routed into the top of the intake.  The fittings and ports on the sides and back are water connections for coolant to assist with fuel vaporization.  The single fitting on the top is the vacuum connection for the Stewart fuel delivery system.  Nothing is bolted down.  Because of that, the exhaust manifolds have slid down about 3/4-inch from where they will sit when permanently attached.

Edited January 30, 2021 by George Cole (see edit history)

[George Cole]

I've gotten ahead of myself, as the last pictures show the manifolds with the carb and linkages attached.  When I set the bare manifolds on the engine, it was obvious I needed to install all of the carb and distributor linkage before the manifolds could be bolted down.  Otherwise I'd be back to where I was playing yo-yo with the oil pan.  The touring car did not come with any carb or distributor linkage (surprise, The roadster came with a good sized handful, buried in one of the bins.  I had no idea what was what, and what went where, and have no reference pictures to go by.  (That's one of the reasons I started this thread, so there will be a trail of bread crumbs for the next guy/gal to follow.) The touring car has a hand throttle and spark timing controls on the top of the steering column.  The car also has an accelerator pedal and a hand choke control on the dashboard.  The Stromberg H No2 has 3 linkage connection points...one for a choke butterfly at the inlet, another butterfly control for the throttle, and a cable attachment for what appears to be an accelerator pump.  

[Terry Harper]

That looks great George.

 

If you get to the point you need the missing manifold pieces they look fairly straight forward in regards to pattern and core box work. 

 

T

[George Cole]

 

9 minutes ago, Terry Harper said:

That looks great George.

 

If you get to the point you need the missing manifold pieces they look fairly straight forward in regards to pattern and core box work. 

 

T

Yes, agreed.  But I've got time, as it'll be a while before I'm ready to tackle the roadster.  And it's missing many other critical parts as well.  But hopefully I'll find the manifold before needing to have one made.  

Edited January 28, 2021 by George Cole (see edit history)

[George Cole]

On 1/26/2021 at 7:59 PM, Terry Harper said:

Great project George!

 

I was just reading the history on the Cole registry concerning the V8 being an in-house design but built under contract by Northway. Neat history! 

Yes.  Cadillac and Cole were both designing V8s with Northway at the same time.  Cadillac introduced their 322 cu in in January 1915.  Cole introduced their 346 cu in two months later.  Both engines are very different and as far as I know, none of their parts are interchangeable.  The Cole V8 block is cast in 2 pieces, bolted together right down the center.  It has removeable heads whereas the Cadillac engine doesn't.  And the differences go on from there.  

[George Cole]

The throttle and spark advance controls on the top of the steering column attach to rods which run the length of the column and exit at the bottom.  Linkages connect each one to a dual rock shaft which runs through the center of the left side of the engine block, exiting in the valley, just below the manifold ports. The foot throttle is in the center of the floorboard.  A rod connects it to a rock shaft mounted to the engine/transmission mounting flanges.  The first picture shows the accelerator pedal rock shaft.  The accelerator rod is attached to the bottom right.  The 2 rods connected at the top left of the picture connect to the block rock shaft and the carburetor.   With one throttle attachment on the carb, it's obvious both the hand and foot throttle controls have to be able to play nicely in the same sandbox.  I think I figured out most of it, with the exception of how to work in what appears to be the manual accelerator pump.  If someone's got any ideas, please throw them my way, as for the time being, I'm pressing on with what I have, as I'm anxious to hear this thing run.  As I said, the linkages need to be attached to the rock shafts prior to installing the manifolds.  The second picture shows the linkage connections to the block rock shaft.  The arm on the left attaches to the foot throttle rock shaft.  The rod going to the right attaches to the distributor for the spark advance. The third picture shows all the linkages attached.  The top linkage rod connects to the carb throttle arm.  For the nit-pickers, yes, I know I will need washers and cotter pins on all of it before I bolt everything up solid.  I am not ready for that yet, as some of the linkage connections are badly worn...for example, one fitting has over 1/2-inch of play.  I'm going to drill those out and install brass bushings before I permanently install any of it.  For now I'm just trying to figure it all out. I don't have pictures of the linkage connections from the bottom of the steering column to the block rock shafts.  Maybe tomorrow.

 

I have at least a dozen pieces of linkage left over.  Several are duplicates of what is shown here (which I will obviously need for the roadster,) but a few are not and I have no idea where they go, or perhaps they are not even for a Cole Car.  The guy I bought the 1916 from said there were some 1916 parts mixed in with the roadster parts, so perhaps these are some of them.  And if I can't find the ones I'm missing for the roadster, I'll have to fabricate them.  But at least now I know what I will need and have the ones on the touring car to copy.

[20Premier]

Very nice project !  Will dig through my information, I know someone who has also been working on same age Cole.

[C Carl]

Hi George,

you say : “The fittings and ports on the intake are for vacuum lines.” , however I am pretty sure that some of them are to supply warm/hot water to the “warming jacket” on the intake manifold. Typical to mid-‘teens V8s, (I am familiar with early V8 Cadillacs), it was not necessary to heat with raw exhaust just yet. Early ‘teens gasoline was quite good , and fractional distillation curves of the period verify this. As the ‘teens wore on,  ever greater percentages of less volatile, more complex hydrocarbons (including C-12 and perhaps a bit  higher - basically the lower distillates of kerosene which includes up to C-16), were introduced. Again , the distillation curves give testimony to this change. And THAT is why, as the decade wore on, raw exhaust heat was used to get the “gasoline “ to burn, this continuing all the way through the ‘20s. You would be well advised to use the earlier intake manifolds if you can find them for modern highly volatile gasoline. In any case, disable direct exhaust heat to the intake. Also, if you have to use the newer EXHAUST manifolds with the ports for raw exhaust heat, just install steel blocking plates. You will also want to defeat thermal bridging where you can between the exhaust, intake, and carburetor. By the way, your Coles were designed when gasoline was approximately 40 octane. Always use the lowest octane you can find, but nothing will give you the clean burning performance these old cars are capable of, but for the lack of their favorite juice. 
 

What a fantastic pair of cars you have for a wonderfully satisfying project !    Best of luck,   -   Carl

 

 

Edited January 29, 2021 by C Carl
Add “and carburetor “ where appropriate (see edit history)

[20Premier]

Very nice project !  Will dig through my information, I know someone who has also been working on same age Cole.

[20Premier]

 

Water jacketed intake manifold on my 1920 Premier model 6D,  lines from water pump and return to block 

[George Cole]

8 hours ago, C Carl said:

Hi George,

you say : “The fittings and ports on the intake are for vacuum lines.” , however I am pretty sure that some of them are to supply warm/hot water to the “warming jacket” on the intake manifold. Typical to mid-‘teens V8s, (I am familiar with early V8 Cadillacs), it was not necessary to heat with raw exhaust just yet. Early ‘teens gasoline was quite good , and fractional distillation curves of the period verify this. As the ‘teens wore on,  ever greater percentages of less volatile, more complex hydrocarbons (including C-12 and perhaps a bit  higher - basically the lower distillates of kerosene which includes up to C-16), were introduced. Again , the distillation curves give testimony to this change. And THAT is why, as the decade wore on, raw exhaust heat was used to get the “gasoline “ to burn, this continuing all the way through the ‘20s. You would be well advised to use the earlier intake manifolds if you can find them for modern highly volatile gasoline. In any case, disable direct exhaust heat to the intake. Also, if you have to use the newer EXHAUST manifolds with the ports for raw exhaust heat, just install steel blocking plates. You will also want to defeat thermal bridging where you can between the exhaust, intake, and carburetor. By the way, your Coles were designed when gasoline was approximately 40 octane. Always use the lowest octane you can find, but nothing will give you the clean burning performance these old cars are capable of, but for the lack of their favorite juice. 
 

What a fantastic pair of cars you have for a wonderfully satisfying project !    Best of luck,   -   Carl

 

 

Hi Carl,

Thanks for the information.  The owner's manual for 1918 & 1920 that I have don't mention anything about using water jackets to warm the manifold.  And there are no ports anywhere in the cooling system of either engine where they might have connected.  I did read where the warming ports were added for 1920 using exhaust gas.  But at least for now I can't use the 1920 manifold set as I'm missing the right exhaust manifold.  Based on your comment, I'll look again.  I have pictures of a 1916 showing what appear to be water lines connected to those ports, although it doesn't show where the other ends of the lines are connected.  And as my 1920 would have used exhaust gas and not water, my engine most likely won't have connections for it in the cooling system.  It will be easy enough to determine if they are water ports...it's just that I hadn't considered it.

 

The only other Cole Car I know of which is somewhat in work is the 1920 which Kevin Fleck just purchased.  It had been sitting for a while so he and his son Ben have been doing a bit of work to get it sorted out.  But nothing like what I'm doing here.  Ben is also a member of AACA, and occasionally comments on some of the threads.  I have had email contact with both of them regarding the cars, but not recently.  

Regards, George

Edited January 29, 2021 by George Cole (see edit history)

[George Cole]

On 1/28/2021 at 9:39 PM, C Carl said:

Hi George,

you say : “The fittings and ports on the intake are for vacuum lines.” , however I am pretty sure that some of them are to supply warm/hot water to the “warming jacket” on the intake manifold. Typical to mid-‘teens V8s, (I am familiar with early V8 Cadillacs), it was not necessary to heat with raw exhaust just yet. Early ‘teens gasoline was quite good , and fractional distillation curves of the period verify this. As the ‘teens wore on,  ever greater percentages of less volatile, more complex hydrocarbons (including C-12 and perhaps a bit  higher - basically the lower distillates of kerosene which includes up to C-16), were introduced. Again , the distillation curves give testimony to this change. And THAT is why, as the decade wore on, raw exhaust heat was used to get the “gasoline “ to burn, this continuing all the way through the ‘20s. You would be well advised to use the earlier intake manifolds if you can find them for modern highly volatile gasoline. In any case, disable direct exhaust heat to the intake. Also, if you have to use the newer EXHAUST manifolds with the ports for raw exhaust heat, just install steel blocking plates. You will also want to defeat thermal bridging where you can between the exhaust, intake, and carburetor. By the way, your Coles were designed when gasoline was approximately 40 octane. Always use the lowest octane you can find, but nothing will give you the clean burning performance these old cars are capable of, but for the lack of their favorite juice. 
 

What a fantastic pair of cars you have for a wonderfully satisfying project !    Best of luck,   -   Carl

 

 

Hey Carl, you are so right. The 2 side fittings and the rear one are internally connected to each other but not the intake tubes. The top fitting is a vacuum line, most likely for the Stewart fuel system. Thanks for setting me straight.  I'll take all the help and advice I can get.  I changed the above text to identify the ports as water connections.  Hopefully this will preclude confusion with some who may read that post and not others.  Thanks, George

Edited January 30, 2021 by George Cole (see edit history)

[Luv2Wrench]

WOW, great looking projects!!  I'm very envious and will be happily following along.  Thanks for taking the time to document the journey for us!!!

[George Cole]

Connected the throttle and spark control linkages to the bottom of the column, and then adjusted the controls on the steering wheel.  Got a lot of play in the linkages which I'm working on.  The horn wire on each end of the column is broken off and will need repair.  Its integrated into the spark control tube, and not replaceable.  I'm not sure whether I can solder a new wire on it or not.  One step forward and two backward. These pictures are of the linkage at the bottom of the column.  If you look closely at the end of the column, you can see the nub of horn wire.  Not a whole lot to work with.

[George Cole]

I found both controls on the steering wheel end of the column are cracked and will need to be Heli arced.  Again, one step forward and two backward.

[George Cole]

[30DodgePanel]

I love the honesty of this thread. Paint over powder coating... imagine that...

 

A true glimpse into the DIY in a real world aspect...

I think you know what I mean (without an extra George monkey and endless financing as someone else does the work for you..).

Kudos George !

 

Awesome job and information you are lending to others.

Refreshing to see someone taking the time to document the little things that are involved . 

 

Thank you 

[JustDave]

Hello george

im looking at a coal roadster,I’m waiting for a reply from seller,seller says it’s a 16 ,it has v8 engine but has disk wheels,is this correct, if. It does not workout I will send you the info,   Thanks dave

[George Cole]

It's been a while since I updated this thread, as with an attempt at progress, another setback was encountered.  The distributor had to be reset, as it was incorrectly installed.  Once the distributor is correctly installed, it has to be timed.  The owners manual covers the process for this.  First, the manual timing advance on the steering column has to be set to full advance.  Then the engine must be rotated to TDC on #1 cylinder.  From there, rotate the engine backward so #1 piston retracts 1 1/2 inches, on the compression stroke.  Because everything in the bottom of the engine looked like new, I hadn't planned to pull the heads.  The reason for this was purely cosmetic.  They had been powder coated, and I knew pulling the heads would ruin the powder coating.  So once again I pulled the oil pan, found #1 TDC and they tried to take measurements from the bottom to determine when the piston withdrew 1 1/2 inches.  I discovered that is impossible to determine from the bottom, as the crankshaft journals block any attempt to measure the position of the piston. 

 

So change of plans, I decided to pull the right head.  (#1 is the front, right cylinder,)  I had to chip the powder coating from the head bolts to get sockets on them.  Then as the bolts loosened, powder coating around the bolts on the head chipped away as well.  This is a major drawback to powder coating, as there is no way to touch it up to look anywhere near presentable.  On chipping the powder coating away, and removing the right head bolts, I discovered there were 3 different sized head bolts used (which is not correct,) and 3 were studs with nuts, not bolts.  When I pulled the studs, I discovered 2 of them were also different sizes.  Apparently the 7/16-inch standard thread bolts had either stripped or been drilled out, so the holes were drilled and tapped to 1/2-inch fine thread.  Okay.  When it goes back together it will be with Grade 8, 7/16-inch bolts, with the exception of the 2 which will be 1/2-inch. 

 

Edited March 3, 2021 by George Cole (see edit history)

[George Cole]

The mismatched head bolts wasn't the biggest surprise I found when removing the head.  I discovered the block water jacket was packed full of insulation.  Apparently sometime in the past, the hose from the head to the radiator (there's one on each side,) had been left off, and field mice decided the inside of the block water jackets would be the perfect place to nest.  It obviously happened years ago, as none of the engine holes have been left open since I've owned the car.  I picked out a gallon of 'fluff' using needle nose pliers, a wire with hook, and a 6-hp vacuum.  It was all dry and odor free.  I did not find any feces, however, it could be deeper in the water jacket where I could not reach.  More on that later.  So now I had no choice but to pull the left head as well, and sure enough, the left block water jacket was also packed full of chewed up insulation.  Again I picked over a gallon of 'fluff' out of the right block.

 

 

[Terry Harper]

George,

 

Sometimes what looks like a setback is actually a major blessing! In this case its finding the blocked water passages which could have lead to a lot of heart ache.

 

In regards to setting the timing and finding TDC are their any marks on the flywheel? I ask because I can't imagine having to take the heads off every time you need to find TDC. 

 

I really am enjoying following along on this project! Keep the updates coming!

 

 

Edited March 4, 2021 by Terry Harper (see edit history)

[George Cole]

10 hours ago, Terry Harper said:

George,

 

Sometimes what looks like a setback is actually a major blessing! In this case its finding the blocked water passages which could have lead to a lot of heart ache.

 

In regards to setting the timing and finding TDC are their any marks on the flywheel? I ask because I can't imagine having to take the heads off every time you need to find TDC. 

 

I really am enjoying following along on this project! Keep the updates coming!

 

 

Yes.  I've been thanking myself every day for pulling the heads and finding that mess.  It would have been much, much worse had I started the engine with all that crap in there.

 

No, there are no marks on the flywheel.  I'm going to put a dimple next to a tooth and on the bell housing for future reference.  The owner's manual gives the specific instructions about measuring piston height to correctly set the timing.  It wouldn't be too bad if the spark plug holes were over the pistons, but they're not.  They're over the valves.  So there's no way to do that without pulling the right head.

 

The holes that the critters entered were exactly 1-inch in diameter so the critters had to be pretty small...especially carrying all that 'fluff' in there to build their nests.  Looks like shredded insulation.

 

Thanks for the input.  George

 

 

Edited March 4, 2021 by George Cole (see edit history)

[AHa]

George,

 

I hate to put a fly in the ointment as it were, but you really should consider having that right side manifold cast now. That is, unless you're thinking you will assemble the touring car and then disassemble to restore. A few years ago there was a guy specializing in casting exhaust manifolds. He advertised heavily in several publications. Everything seems to be changing so rapidly now, I don't know where to send you, but now is the time to get the manifold made while you have the part loose, otherwise, you are faced with taking the part off the touring to have one cast, after it is all together.

 

There is another option. From your description of the seller, he had aged out and was having memory issues. It is possible the other manifold is at his place and the sellers agent could be asked to look for it. Just a thought.

 

I would also suggest blowing out the water jackets with high pressure air before reassembly and running some water through if that looks feasible. You probably already know to do all this but it never hurts to have more advice.

 

Allen

Edited March 4, 2021 by AHa (see edit history)

[Terry Harper]

I agree now is the time. At the very least have the drawings etc. done if not the pattern work.

 

George do you have a series of photos of the head so we can see the chamber etc.? Also, some general overall dimensions - length width, height.

I am curious about water passages etc.

 

 

[George Cole]

2 hours ago, AHa said:

George,

 

I hate to put a fly in the ointment as it were, but you really should consider having that right side manifold cast now. That is, unless you're thinking you will assemble the touring car and then disassemble to restore. A few years ago there was a guy specializing in casting exhaust manifolds. He advertised heavily in several publications. Everything seems to be changing so rapidly now, I don't know where to send you, but now is the time to get the manifold made while you have the part loose, otherwise, you are faced with taking the part off the touring to have one cast, after it is all together.

 

There is another option. From your description of the seller, he had aged out and was having memory issues. It is possible the other manifold is at his place and the sellers agent could be asked to look for it. Just a thought.

 

I would also suggest blowing out the water jackets with high pressure air before reassembly and running some water through if that looks feasible. You probably already know to do all this but it never hurts to have more advice.

 

Allen

No.  No fly in the ointment.  I understand what you're saying about having the manifold made.  And yes, I am planning to visit the gentleman who I bought the roadster from sometime in the next couple of months, looking for several wayward parts...including the manifold.  Besides the Wu Flu, the only drawback is that he's a thousand miles away.  My wife and I get our second Wu Flu shots later this month and I've already told her my plans to return there in hopes of finding some of the missing parts in one of his barns, etc.  Otherwise, I am hoping a manifold might surface to complete the second set before I start working on the other car. 

 

Another option is that I know where there is a 1920 touring parts car which has been picked over for at least 2 restorations.  I'm hoping to be able to score it sometime in the future.  The only problem is the owner doesn't want to let go of anything.  As he's significantly advanced in age, he no longer wants to even talk to people about his cars (he has 4 Cole Cars,) or will entertain selling them or any of the parts he has.  Sooner or later I expect it all to come available to settle his estate.  So I haven't given up, and you're right...in the meantime, I probably should have the manifold cast rather than watching and waiting, if I can find a place to do it.  Thanks, George

[1912Staver]

On ‎1‎/‎31‎/‎2021 at 2:09 PM, George Cole said:

Connected the throttle and spark control linkages to the bottom of the column, and then adjusted the controls on the steering wheel.  Got a lot of play in the linkages which I'm working on.  The horn wire on each end of the column is broken off and will need repair.  Its integrated into the spark control tube, and not replaceable.  I'm not sure whether I can solder a new wire on it or not.  One step forward and two backward. These pictures are of the linkage at the bottom of the column.  If you look closely at the end of the column, you can see the nub of horn wire.  Not a whole lot to work with.

 

 

Hi George, great project and write up ! I have a question about your steering box. Do you know who makes it ? I have the same steering box on my 1912  project car except the RHD version. I suspect they are Gemmer, however my early version does not have the Gemmer name cast into the main housing like I have seen on some of the examples from around the time of your Cole. Apart from LHD vs RHD they look identical, exactly the same arrangement for the controls at the lower end  like what is very nicely shown in your photo. I need all those control parts , but it doesn't sound like you have any spare ones. But at least if I knew the make of the unit it might help in my search.

 

Greg

Edited March 4, 2021 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[George Cole]

1 hour ago, Terry Harper said:

I agree now is the time. At the very least have the drawings etc. done if not the pattern work.

 

George do you have a series of photos of the head so we can see the chamber etc.? Also, some general overall dimensions - length width, height.

I am curious about water passages etc.

 

 

I am planning on posting pictures of the heads later today.  The manifolds do not attach to the heads. they attach to the block...they are flatheads with water jackets in them.  I'll take some measurement photos and post them as well.  Thanks, George

Edited March 4, 2021 by George Cole (see edit history)

[George Cole]

5 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

 

 

Hi George, great project and write up ! I have a question about your steering box. Do you know who makes it ? I have the same steering box on my 1912  project car except the RHD version. I suspect they are Gemmer, however my early version does not have the Gemmer name cast into the main housing like I have seen on some of the examples from around the time of your Cole. Apart from LHD vs RHD they look identical, exactly the same arrangement for the controls at the lower end  like what is very nicely shown in your photo. I need all those control parts , but it doesn't sound like you have any spare ones. But at least if I knew the make of the unit it might help in my search.

 

Greg

Hey Greg,

 

You are right, I don't have any extra linkage pieces.  I barely had enough to make one set, so I'll have to either find another set, or use the ones I have as templates to make another set.  There's about 20 different pieces of linkage to make a set.  The ones from the bottom of the steering column attach to to the bottom of a dual rock shaft which runs through the left bank of the engine block.  The top of the rock shaft exits the block in the Vee, where one linkage is attached to the gas pedal and back to the carb, and the other attaches to the base of the distributor for the spark advance.  

 

I  have the steering box removed from the roadster.  I don't remember seeing a name on it but I'll dig it out and check again and post the results here.  Thanks, George

[1912Staver]

Thanks, I appreciate any information you may be able to provide. Its not really the linkage parts I am needing. they will be different on my car. More the end piece that attaches with 2 vertically  oriented screws to the front end of the steering box casting { clamps the stationary tube that locates the steering wheel quadrant } and the levers that transmit the action of the control rods to the linkage. The leavers are something that can most likely be substituted from a number of different setup's from this general era. But that front clamp casting is very specific to these steering boxes. If you ever do manage to line a parts car or acquire a parts hoard please keep me in mind. I am not working on a Cole, but these are to the best of my knowledge bought in parts that most likely were used on a number of makes.

 

Greg

[George Cole]

3 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

Thanks, I appreciate any information you may be able to provide. Its not really the linkage parts I am needing. they will be different on my car. More the end piece that attaches with 2 vertically  oriented screws to the front end of the steering box casting { clamps the stationary tube that locates the steering wheel quadrant } and the levers that transmit the action of the control rods to the linkage. The leavers are something that can most likely be substituted from a number of different setup's from this general era. But that front clamp casting is very specific to these steering boxes. If you ever do manage to line a parts car or acquire a parts hoard please keep me in mind. I am not working on a Cole, but these are to the best of my knowledge bought in parts that most likely were used on a number of makes.

 

Greg

Yes, I understand exactly what you are referring to, but unfortunately I don't have any extras.  I just checked the 1920 Cole owners manual and you are correct.  It is a Gemmer steering box.  I can try to take and post better pictures of the linkages if it will help.  Regards, George

[1912Staver]

That would definitely help, and thanks very much for the Gemmer I.D. confirmation ! All these pre 1925 , non mainstream restorations require quite a bit of detective work.

Every bit of concrete information is a victory.

 

Greg

 

Greg

[George Cole]

Before going any further, I set the #1 piston to the correct position (1.5 inches before TDC,) and installed the distributor...which is what I initially set out to do.  I also cleaned the soot and oil from the top of the pistons and valves.  And I took a pause to thank the good Lord for having me pull the heads.  If I hadn't, all of that 'fluff' and whatever else would have packed the radiator and all of the water ports and cavities solid.  This could very well have resulted in a burned and seized up engine.  Even though I've removed everything I can see through the water jacket ports, I am sure that I haven't got all.  I cannot run the engine without a thorough block cleaning as I suspect there is still more 'fluff' buried deeper in the water jackets...and there's got to be feces at the bottom of it all.  I purchased all the equipment and supplies to do an engine flush, similar to what Ed did to the Great White.  But to do that, I have to reinstall both heads, so first I need to paint them.  Cole V8 engines were painted a medium light green color, which appears to be the same as the present-day Detroit Diesel engine color.   The entire frame, chassis, engine, and transmission had been powder coated black.  Quite a few of the restored Cole Cars have black or grey painted or powder coated engines, so I was going to leave mine that way.  Now that I have to paint the heads, I decided to return them to the original Cole green color.  I ordered a case of high-temp Detroit Diesel green rattle cans...and they were lost by the good old USPS.  I reordered several days ago, and they are supposed to arrive within the next couple of days.  Meanwhile, I stripped all the powder coating off the heads, in preparation for paint.  I started using a wire wheel but found that a plastic stripper wheel works much better.  The heads are stripped and ready for paint.  As soon as it arrives, I'll put several coats on each head, and install with new head bolts.  Meanwhile, I've been assembling PVC pipes, shutoff valves, and rubber boots for flushing the engine.

 

 

Edited March 5, 2021 by George Cole (see edit history)

[George Cole]

Coolant flows from the bottom of the radiator into the water pump mounted on the front of the engine.  It is pumped into the front of the bottom of the block on each side.  The coolant flows past the cylinders, rising to the top of the block on each side, where it exits into each head.  The heads are 2 inches thick, and hollow.  Coolant flows through the head around the top of the combustion chambers, exiting at the top center, where it is piped into the top of both sides of the radiator.  These pictures show the 3 water ports  (one on each bottom corner, and one in the top center) of the bottom of each head, where coolant enters the head from the block.  There's also a picture of the water outlet on the top of a head, showing an angled view through the head to the port where coolant enters from the block.   

[George Cole]

The block flush is still on hold waiting for the paint to paint the heads.  

 

The hollow steering shaft has two concentric hollow rods and a wire inside of it.  The rods are for the hand throttle and spark advance, and the wire is for the horn.  These pictures show the attachments at the bottom of the steering column, where the rods and wire exit the steering box.  The concentric shafts are kept from sliding out of the steering column by the controls attached on top of the steering wheel.  As those controls are presently removed for repair, the bare silver wire shown in some of the pictures is keeping the 2 concentric shafts from sliding out of the bottom of the steering column.  I've attached pictures of the linkage arms which are connect these shafts.  Pictures are from multiple views and angles.    

[George Cole]

Here's several more pictures of the bottom of the steering column showing the brass linkage arms attaching the concentric shafts to the throttle and spark advance linkages.  The last picture is of 2 of these linkage arms separate from the car.  One is unattached and the other is attached to one of the rock shafts which goes through the engine block.

Edited March 5, 2021 by George Cole (see edit history)