Dandy Dave Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 (edited) Miss Patty's cousins on the bumper. Sid Uhle ran Uhle Buick with his Dad Bill Uhle in Salamanca, NY. They went out around 1980. Edited July 11, 2020 by Dandy Dave (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 1938 Plymouth Craig 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHuDWah Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 Yup, 38 Plymouth. Appears to have the lowered headlights which was a midyear (circa February, 1938) change. Also appears to be a P6 "Deluxe" unless it's a P5 "Road King" with the $5 extra cost monotone paint option - P5 had black fenders standard, regardless of body color. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doozer Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 Headlights were lowered and moved back. I believe this is the first version. Doesn’t appear that the stanchions could move forward or up on this car. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hudsy Wudsy Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 5 minutes ago, Doozer said: Headlights were lowered and moved back. I believe this is the first version. Doesn’t appear that the stanchions could move forward or up on this car. No, this is the second version. The first version is conspicuously bug-eyed. Note the difference: Early: Later: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doozer Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 Thanks, now I can see that. I thought they just lowered and moved back. Must be different lights altogether I guess. Can you tell me more about this. 38 Plymouth coupe is on my bucket list. Marlowe of couse 😉 ! Was the car in The Big Sleep early or later version? Does the owner of that coupe you posted be interested in selling it to me? Thanks Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hudsy Wudsy Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 Well, actually, they moved the headlights down two inches and back four. If you haven't heard, it was because the dealers complained vehemently. It seems from the moment that the new '38 Plymouths went onto the show floor customers hooted and laughed about how bug-eyed they looked. The embarrassed dealers in turn complained to the factory. At that, it still took several weeks for a fix to be available. Marlowe's P6 coupe with later style headlight position: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 I remember the first '38 Plymouth I encountered in a junkyard, it was early one with the bug-eyed look. I burst out laughing! It just looked so ridiculous. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 (edited) I may be a bit dense here but no matter how I look I can't see a 2 and 4 inch difference between the black car and the brown one, other than the brown one appears to have a sealed beam conversion, and less eye bulge because of that. What am I missing here? Hudsy Wudsy: I am not doubting you. I have heard of the change for years. I am just not seeing it in the pictures. Edited July 12, 2020 by Bloo (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hudsy Wudsy Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Bloo said: I may be a bit dense here but no matter how I look I can't see a 2 and 4 inch difference between the black car and the brown one, other than the brown one appears to have a sealed beam conversion, and less eye bulge because of that. What am I missing here? Buffalowed Bill: I am not doubting you. I have heard of the change for years. I am just not seeing it in the pictures. Looking at them now, I think that I chose examples that were photos from a poor angle. Maybe tomorrow I'll scrounge around Google for better pics. On the other hand you might just go to Google, enter "1938 plymouth", and then click on "images" (in the upper right corner) and look for yourself. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 Hudsy Wudsy, I confused you with someone else. Sorry about that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hudsy Wudsy Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 6 hours ago, Bloo said: Hudsy Wudsy, I confused you with someone else. Sorry about that. That's all right. I often confuse myself without help from others. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted July 12, 2020 Author Share Posted July 12, 2020 Thanks Fellas for nailing it down. I thought maybe a Chrysler Corp car. Looked at a few photos of 38 Plymouths and did not look exactly the same. Must have been the other version I was looking at. Dandy Dave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hudsy Wudsy Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 (edited) My first car was an early version '38 Plymouth sedan that didn't come with headlight lenses. I paid $25 for it. I was simultaneously proud and embarrassed because it was so ugly. Edited July 12, 2020 by Hudsy Wudsy (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHuDWah Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 20 hours ago, Doozer said: Thanks, now I can see that. I thought they just lowered and moved back. Must be different lights altogether I guess. Can you tell me more about this. 38 Plymouth coupe is on my bucket list. Marlowe of couse 😉 ! Was the car in The Big Sleep early or later version? Does the owner of that coupe you posted be interested in selling it to me? Thanks Rick The mounts are different. Early: Late: The headlights are the same. The indentation with the stud fits over the ball on the mount, allowing some adjustment - the wiring goes through the hole. 16 hours ago, Bloo said: I may be a bit dense here but no matter how I look I can't see a 2 and 4 inch difference between the black car and the brown one, other than the brown one appears to have a sealed beam conversion, and less eye bulge because of that. What am I missing here? Hudsy Wudsy: I am not doubting you. I have heard of the change for years. I am just not seeing it in the pictures. It's easier to see in head-on shots. The diameter of the early light aligns with the point of the mount and the light sits higher in relation to the seam between the upper and lower hood panels. Early: Late: 17 hours ago, Hudsy Wudsy said: Well, actually, they moved the headlights down two inches and back four. If you haven't heard, it was because the dealers complained vehemently. It seems from the moment that the new '38 Plymouths went onto the show floor customers hooted and laughed about how bug-eyed they looked. The embarrassed dealers in turn complained to the factory. At that, it still took several weeks for a fix to be available. Marlowe's P6 coupe with later style headlight position: Actually, it took several months - the 38 was introduced in the fall of 37 and the styling changes were made circa February, 38. I'm not so sure The Big Sleep coupe is later. The photo angle is different but the front end shot looks more like the early one I posted. Again, the photo angle is a little different but the headlights look farther forward in the side shot than in this one: (It's a hot rod but I've seen it in the flesh...er, steel...so I know the headlights are stock low-mounted.) And here's the 38 driven by "Mad Dog" Roy Earle (Bogart) in High Sierra. Although the films are five years apart, it may be the same car. Again, it appears to have the early headlight mounts as well as the early tapered-end bumpers. In the film, Earle's car kept changing between a 38 and a 37 - apparently the studio had one of each and used them interchangeably without regard to continuity. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 Now that really shows the difference, Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hudsy Wudsy Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 CHuDWaH, thanks for the clarity. I did mention earlier that I have issues with confusion, didn't I? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHuDWah Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 23 minutes ago, Hudsy Wudsy said: CHuDWaH, thanks for the clarity. I did mention earlier that I have issues with confusion, didn't I? 🤣 No sweat - I'm also frequently confused. I'm no expert but having owned both P5 and P6 coupes, I've researched the 38s quite a bit. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doozer Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 CHuDWaH, Thanks so much for this great info and pics. 👌 Do you know of any 38 coupes for sale? Thanks, Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHuDWah Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 59 minutes ago, Doozer said: CHuDWaH, Thanks so much for this great info and pics. 👌 Do you know of any 38 coupes for sale? Thanks, Rick Well, there's a hot rod at Streetside Classics in your town, Charlotte, NC: https://www.streetsideclassics.com/vehicles/5675-cha/1938-plymouth-business-coupe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doozer Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 Thanks, saw that one. I don’t think it’s Phillip Marlowe approved ☹️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossil Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 I'm probably the odd duck in the pond but I kind of like the "bug eyed" look. Did the 38's still have the shifter on the floor? 3 in the tree just doesn't seem old but growing up with it might be the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 Just now, Fossil said: I'm probably the odd duck in the pond but I kind of like the "bug eyed" look. Did the 38's still have the shifter on the floor? 3 in the tree just doesn't seem old but growing up with it might be the issue. 1939 was the first column shift Plymouth. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 On 7/11/2020 at 2:56 PM, CHuDWah said: Yup, 38 Plymouth. Appears to have the lowered headlights which was a midyear (circa February, 1938) change. Also appears to be a P6 "Deluxe" unless it's a P5 "Road King" with the $5 extra cost monotone paint option - P5 had black fenders standard, regardless of body color. One thing I like about this AACA Forum are the Marque Specialists coming forward and informing all who do not collect cars such as Plymouths of these particular options and in this case, mid-year running changes. Thanks for this further information. Craig 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sftamx1 Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 4 hours ago, Doozer said: CHuDWaH, Thanks so much for this great info and pics. 👌 Do you know of any 38 coupes for sale? Thanks, Rick I know of a nice '38 near me. Check Facebook Market place zip 13021. I have owned one of each,'37 and '38... The 38 dropped the crank out windshield, and had a red badge for their 10th anniversary. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doozer Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 7 hours ago, sftamx1 said: I know of a nice '38 near me. Check Facebook Market place zip 13021. Thanks for the lead, however I could not find a listing at that zip local. Could you help me try to find it another way? Thanks Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hudsy Wudsy Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 10 hours ago, keiser31 said: 1939 was the first column shift Plymouth. While '39 was the first column shift Plymouth, the cheap model, whatever it was called that year, retained the floor shift for that one last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sftamx1 Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 3 hours ago, Doozer said: Thanks for the lead, however I could not find a listing at that zip local. Could you help me try to find it another way? Thanks Rick https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/457088584800553/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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