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Another what is it. Around Mid 1930's.


Dandy Dave

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Yup, 38 Plymouth.  Appears to have the lowered headlights which was a midyear (circa February, 1938) change.  Also appears to be a P6 "Deluxe" unless it's a P5 "Road King" with the $5 extra cost  monotone paint option - P5 had black fenders standard, regardless of body color.

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5 minutes ago, Doozer said:

Headlights were lowered and moved back. I believe this is the first version. Doesn’t appear that the stanchions could move forward or up on this car.

No, this is the second version. The first version is conspicuously bug-eyed.

Note the difference:

Early:1938 Plymouth P6 Deluxe Four Door Touring Sedan. This is a super ...

 

Later:

 

38plydeluxecpe_DOW.jpg

 

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Thanks, now I can see that. I thought they just lowered and moved back. Must be different lights altogether I guess. Can you tell me more about this. 38 Plymouth coupe is on my bucket list. Marlowe of  couse 😉 !  Was the car in The Big Sleep early or later version? Does the owner of that coupe you posted be interested in selling it to me?   Thanks Rick

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Well, actually, they moved the headlights down two inches and back four. If you haven't heard, it was because the dealers complained vehemently. It seems from the moment that the new '38 Plymouths went onto the show floor customers hooted and laughed about how bug-eyed they looked. The embarrassed dealers in turn complained to the factory. At that, it still took several weeks for a fix to be available. Marlowe's P6 coupe with later style headlight position:

 

1938 Plymouth De Luxe [P-6]

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I may be a bit dense here but no matter how I look I can't see a 2 and 4 inch difference between the black car and the brown one, other than the brown one appears to have a sealed beam conversion, and less eye bulge because of that. What am I missing here?

 

Hudsy Wudsy: I am not doubting you. I have heard of the change for years. I am just not seeing it in the pictures.

Edited by Bloo (see edit history)
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1 hour ago, Bloo said:

I may be a bit dense here but no matter how I look I can't see a 2 and 4 inch difference between the black car and the brown one, other than the brown one appears to have a sealed beam conversion, and less eye bulge because of that. What am I missing here?

 

Buffalowed Bill: I am not doubting you. I have heard of the change for years. I am just not seeing it in the pictures.

Looking at them now, I think that I chose examples that were photos from a poor angle. Maybe tomorrow I'll scrounge around Google for better pics. On the other hand you might just go to Google, enter "1938 plymouth", and then click on "images" (in the upper right corner) and look for yourself.

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Thanks Fellas for nailing it down. I thought maybe a Chrysler Corp car. Looked at a few photos of 38 Plymouths and did not look exactly the same. Must have been the other version I was looking at. Dandy Dave!  

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20 hours ago, Doozer said:

Thanks, now I can see that. I thought they just lowered and moved back. Must be different lights altogether I guess. Can you tell me more about this. 38 Plymouth coupe is on my bucket list. Marlowe of  couse 😉 !  Was the car in The Big Sleep early or later version? Does the owner of that coupe you posted be interested in selling it to me?   Thanks Rick

 

The mounts are different.

Early:

756846852_EarlyMount.jpg.9d3e9b256cb3f462c7910e56f159ad0a.jpg

 

Late:

165172762_LateMount.jpg.4de84bb84a8b7c20a7c9f2d27d4e4fb5.jpg

 

The headlights are the same.  The indentation with the stud fits over the ball on the mount, allowing some adjustment - the wiring goes through the hole.

Headlights.jpg.c4dc2e711d2e649bd4f577d0d01d23b1.jpg

 

 

16 hours ago, Bloo said:

I may be a bit dense here but no matter how I look I can't see a 2 and 4 inch difference between the black car and the brown one, other than the brown one appears to have a sealed beam conversion, and less eye bulge because of that. What am I missing here?

 

Hudsy Wudsy: I am not doubting you. I have heard of the change for years. I am just not seeing it in the pictures.

 

It's easier to see in head-on shots.  The diameter of the early light aligns with the point of the mount and the light sits higher in relation to the seam between the upper and lower hood panels.

Early:

Early.jpg.374464eb1f646eece899a9900755e5f0.jpg

 

Late:

Late.jpg.25233fc90b1b6baf719528b641fd8a89.jpg

 

 

17 hours ago, Hudsy Wudsy said:

Well, actually, they moved the headlights down two inches and back four. If you haven't heard, it was because the dealers complained vehemently. It seems from the moment that the new '38 Plymouths went onto the show floor customers hooted and laughed about how bug-eyed they looked. The embarrassed dealers in turn complained to the factory. At that, it still took several weeks for a fix to be available. Marlowe's P6 coupe with later style headlight position:

 

1938 Plymouth De Luxe [P-6]

 

Actually, it took several months - the 38 was introduced in the fall of 37 and the styling changes were made circa February, 38.

 

I'm not so sure The Big Sleep coupe is later.  The photo angle is different but the front end shot looks more like the early one I posted.  Again, the photo angle is a little different but the headlights look farther forward in the side shot than in this one:

Side.jpg.d25cbed3fb0ed31aeda1c92c18574b7c.jpg

(It's a hot rod but I've seen it in the flesh...er, steel...so I know the headlights are stock low-mounted.)

 

And here's the 38 driven by "Mad Dog" Roy Earle (Bogart) in High Sierra.  Although the films are five years apart, it may be the same car. 

1074850625_HighSierra.jpg.c1f4feee1cb4e1b7aa5cc29795142087.jpg

Again, it appears to have the early headlight mounts as well as the early tapered-end bumpers.

 

In the film, Earle's car kept changing between a 38 and a 37 - apparently the studio had one of each and used them interchangeably without regard to continuity.  :D

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23 minutes ago, Hudsy Wudsy said:

 

CHuDWaH, thanks for the clarity. I did mention earlier that I have issues with confusion, didn't I?

 

 

 

🤣  No sweat - I'm also frequently confused.  I'm no expert but having owned both P5 and P6 coupes, I've researched the 38s quite a bit.

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I'm probably the odd duck in the pond but I kind of like the "bug eyed" look.  Did the 38's still have the shifter on the floor?  3 in the tree just doesn't seem old but growing up with it might be the issue. 

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Just now, Fossil said:

I'm probably the odd duck in the pond but I kind of like the "bug eyed" look.  Did the 38's still have the shifter on the floor?  3 in the tree just doesn't seem old but growing up with it might be the issue. 

1939 was the first column shift Plymouth.

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On 7/11/2020 at 2:56 PM, CHuDWah said:

Yup, 38 Plymouth.  Appears to have the lowered headlights which was a midyear (circa February, 1938) change.  Also appears to be a P6 "Deluxe" unless it's a P5 "Road King" with the $5 extra cost  monotone paint option - P5 had black fenders standard, regardless of body color.

One thing I like about this AACA Forum are the Marque Specialists coming forward and informing all who do not collect cars such as Plymouths of these particular options and in this case, mid-year running changes.

 

Thanks for this further information.

 

Craig

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4 hours ago, Doozer said:

CHuDWaH, Thanks so much for this great info and pics. 👌

Do you know of any 38 coupes for sale?   Thanks, Rick

I know of a nice '38 near me. Check Facebook Market place zip 13021.

I have owned one of each,'37 and '38...  The 38 dropped the crank out windshield, and had a red badge for their 10th anniversary.  

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7 hours ago, sftamx1 said:

I know of a nice '38 near me. Check Facebook Market place zip 13021.

Thanks for the lead, however I could not find a listing at that zip local. Could you help me try to find it another way? Thanks Rick

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