MY64RIVIERA Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 Trying to remove the remote mirror on my 64 and am having a hard time. I do not have the toggle on the inside so the cables are just sitting down in the door. I have the chassis manual and have removed the screw holding the mirror to the bracket but it won’t budge. Looks like the base of the mirror might sit on a metal dowel in addition to the two self tapping screws for the bracket? Do I just need to use a little force. Can’t get the damn thing to budge. Many help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demon452 Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 (edited) You can see the screw in your pic (center)Unscrew that so the housing can be moved so you have access to the screw holding it to the door bracket. Edited March 27, 2019 by demon452 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demon452 Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 I believe that is how. If not I can check my other mirror when I get home later. If you have no answers by then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 In the lower right picture, you'll there's a stud that is right below the neck. That stud has a nut on it on the inside of the door skin. It goes through the bigger hole you see in the top picture. That hole is the front one of the three that you see on the door skin. To completely remove the mirror, you'll need to remove the door skin to access that nut and you'll also need to remove the three wires from the joy stick. When removing the wires, make sure that you mark which wire goes with which slot in the joy stick. You might be able to pull the joystick from the door panel and remove the three wires and pull the cable with the three wires inside of it out. But you'll never get it back in without removing the door skin. There's a "clam" on the inside of the door frame that keeps the cable from interfering with the movement of the window. You'll never get the cable back through the clamp nor will you be able to snake the cable UP to the hole in the door panel. It's kind of like trying to push a chain. Ed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demon452 Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 Ok, looked at my old mirror. The stud is NOT threaded. Only 1 screw holds the mirror on to the bracket. But as Ed stated most likely door skin will have to come off in order to remove /install cable. 1st pic is of alignment stud , 2nd pic is the screw location after mirror and mirror housing are disassembled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demon452 Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 Here is 1 more pic of the back side of mirror where it separates the 2. (Hole is where the screw goes) Center screw as you can see the threaded part in your pic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY64RIVIERA Posted March 29, 2019 Author Share Posted March 29, 2019 Update. I removed the belt line from the door skin and the top 3 acorn nuts from the front of the door skin and was able to quickly access the nut from the inside of the door, which indeed was holding the mirror to the door/bracket. I also found that the 3 screws behind the belt line were missing which I will replace when I get the new mirror. For whatever reason the prior owner had the correct remote mirror however they did not have the toggle so the mirror was basically useless. I've opted to go with the tri-shield mirror from CARS and am awaiting for it to arrive. I'm slightly worried that the bracket they provide might need to be modified. Has anybody used this mirror before. I decided it would be easier to go with this mirror than cut a hole in the door panel, buy the toggle and then have to feed it thru the door. Thanks, Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 (edited) I've never owned a first generation Riviera that did not come equipped with a remote mirror so I'm not sure about my next statement but it makes sense to me so I'm saying it anyway. The remote mirror is stamped into the data plate which means that it was installed at the Fisher plant before going to final assembly. In the Fisher body plant a reinforcement was attached to the inside of the door skin which would give the mirror extra support. I imagine that the non mirror equipped cars did not have that reinforcement; the non remote mirror probably just screws to the door skin. So you're probably on the right track just using the CARS mirror and the attaching bracket attached to the door skin. The basic Riviera did not come with any outside mirror. Ed Edited March 29, 2019 by RivNut (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY64RIVIERA Posted March 30, 2019 Author Share Posted March 30, 2019 Ed, My car came equipped with the remote mirror however the toggle was missing and the cables were stuffed down in the door. The prior owner must have lost the joystick or didn’t want to cut the freshly installed door panels and reinstall. I’m simply trying to take the path of least resistance, but will keep the original mirror and search for a toggle down the road. Thanks again everybody for the help! Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riviera63 Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 (edited) 15 hours ago, RivNut said: I've never owned a first generation Riviera that did not come equipped with a remote mirror so I'm not sure about my next statement but it makes sense to me so I'm saying it anyway. The remote mirror is stamped into the data plate which means that it was installed at the Fisher plant before going to final assembly. In the Fisher body plant a reinforcement was attached to the inside of the door skin which would give the mirror extra support. I imagine that the non mirror equipped cars did not have that reinforcement; the non remote mirror probably just screws to the door skin. So you're probably on the right track just using the CARS mirror and the attaching bracket attached to the door skin. The basic Riviera did not come with any outside mirror. Ed My car when I purchased it had the non-remote tri-shield mirrors on both sides of the car. Ed, you are correct the mirrors are just screwed into the door skin. I have not had any problems with them and they seem to be anchored solidly. When I first purchased my car I had explored changing my driver's side mirror to a remote mirror. As I looked at cars that had the remote mirrors I noticed that they were mounted in a different location than my mirror. I do not know if my mirror had been located in the proper location as per Buick or not. It works fine where it is located. If I remember correctly, I did not get the remote mirror because it would not have worked properly being put in the same location as my mirror which leads me to believe that the different mirrors (the remote mirror as opposed to the tri-shield mirror) are located in different locations on the door to be viewed properly by the driver and avoid interference with the vent window. Whether this is true or not I don't know. Bill Edited March 30, 2019 by Riviera63 revise text (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riviera63 Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 7 hours ago, MY64RIVIERA said: Ed, My car came equipped with the remote mirror however the toggle was missing and the cables were stuffed down in the door. The prior owner must have lost the joystick or didn’t want to cut the freshly installed door panels and reinstall. I’m simply trying to take the path of least resistance, but will keep the original mirror and search for a toggle down the road. Thanks again everybody for the help! Robert Robert, If someday you would like to go back to the remote mirror try contacting one of the vendors in the Riview. I'm sure you could get a nice remote mirror with good chrome and complete with the toggle and inner door plate I think there is a cutout on the backside of the inner door panel so that you can thread the toggle through and mount the toggle in the proper location. Maybe someone can confirm or deny this. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 The question of mirror placement has come up before. At the ROA meet in Harrisburg, PA a number of years ago, I took pictures of all of the cars with remote mirrors and they were all in one of two places. I made note of the data plates that went with the cars and came to the conclusion that there was no rhyme nor reason as to why some mirrors were forward and some were back. With mirrors either forward or back, the joysticks were all in the same place and worked fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBRMD Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 Ed, can you show a pic of the reinforcement that goes inside the door skin for the remote mirror? I am contemplating mounting a '63 Riv mirror on the passenger side of my '65 Sportwagon; have the mirror but not the reinforcement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKRIV Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 Hi All, I am building my 1965 doors and have forgotten where this rubber cap belongs (and how retained) on the remote mirror cables. Guidance appreciated. Cheers Tom K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 18 hours ago, TKRIV said: Hi All, I am building my 1965 doors and have forgotten where this rubber cap belongs (and how retained) on the remote mirror cables. Guidance appreciated. Cheers Tom K Lol...Tom, you have an unusual dilemna there! Most of those seals are long gone by now. The seal goes under the door trim panel between the door trim panel and the inner metal door frame. If you thread the cables/joystick through it from outside to inside, with the large diameter of the seal facing inside, push the seal past the door trim panel but not through the hole in the metal inner door frame. The seal simply sits in that position trapped between the door trim panel and the metal inner door frame. You have an early car (your black GS), let`s see that joystick!! Tom Mooney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 On 3/30/2019 at 9:00 AM, RivNut said: The question of mirror placement has come up before. At the ROA meet in Harrisburg, PA a number of years ago, I took pictures of all of the cars with remote mirrors and they were all in one of two places. I made note of the data plates that went with the cars and came to the conclusion that there was no rhyme nor reason as to why some mirrors were forward and some were back. With mirrors either forward or back, the joysticks were all in the same place and worked fine. Hi Ed, What were you noting on the Fisher Body plates? Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 (edited) The presence of the remote mirror codes and build dates. Code S7 on 63's, and code 4F on 64's and 65's indicates the mirrors were installed at the Fisher Body plant in Flint. I couldn't associate build dates with mirror placement. Edited April 1, 2019 by RivNut (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKRIV Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 Hi Tom Here is the Joy stick. Is it the correct one for 1965? Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBRMD Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 Still hoping to find an image of the reinforcement that goes inside the door skin on these remote mirrors....can anybody snap and post a few? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 Hi Tom, In `65 there were 2 versions of the joystick. Buick started with the first that was similar to the `63-`64 but a little shorter. The second version is the one you pictured here. The stick is longer and the base is thin and straight to allow for more range when adjusting the mirror. Tom Mooney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, SBRMD said: Still hoping to find an image of the reinforcement that goes inside the door skin on these remote mirrors....can anybody snap and post a few? I am not aware of a reinforcement for the mirror but there were small changes in the mirrors and mountings so it is possible I have never run across it. There IS a reinforcement for the door handle though, Tom Mooney 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telriv Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 Tom, My original L door skin had the reinforcement. When I bought a new skin to replace the original back around 1970 it also came with/had the reinforcement. Tom T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelman Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 The early 63s had the mirror near the wing window post. Mine is a 12B car with the early mirror. Yes, it was this dirty when I bought it. Sometime later in the build, they were moved forward on the door. I think 64 and 65 mirrors have this same placement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 I have about 20 drivers side door skins I`ve accumulated over the years including the NOS example pictured. I checked them when this point was raised previously in another thread but couldnt find one with a reinforcement for the mirror. Keep in mind most of the door skins are likely to be `65`s but a significant sampling are `63-`64. I`m not saying Buick never made a door skin with the reinforcement, but I`ve never seen one. Would have been a great idea though as the screws for the base have a tendency to want to pull out of the sheetmetal. Tom M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 24 minutes ago, steelman said: The early 63s had the mirror near the wing window post. Mine is a 12B car with the early mirror. Yes, it was this dirty when I bought it. Sometime later in the build, they were moved forward on the door. I think 64 and 65 mirrors have this same placement. Hi Steve, I`m in the middle of accumulating factory info on mirror placement. Next step will be the actual cars. The tricky part is that the door skins can be removed and changed and there is a strong possibility, after 50 plus years, that a skin could be changed. You mention an "early mirror"? What characteristic are you referring to? Does your `63 with mirror mounted adjacent to the division post have the 4F Fisher Body code? Thanks, Tom Mooney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelman Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 (edited) Sorry, Tom. It should have said early mirror placement or early mirror location. And not that I could find them, but I have seen pictures of the mirror reinforcement inside the door skin on this site. Edited April 8, 2019 by steelman (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 27 minutes ago, steelman said: Sorry, Tom. It should have said early mirror placement or early mirror location. And not that I could find them, but I have seen pictures of the mirror reinforcement inside the door skin on this site. Hi Steve, Like I stated...not saying a reinforcement doesnt exist, I just cant document it with the parts I have on hand. I would love to see a pic. Does your car, with the rearward mirror mounting have the 4F code for a factory installed mirror? Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelman Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 Short answer would be no, but I think 63 is different. Mine says: D I6 N2 S Z4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 6 minutes ago, steelman said: Short answer would be no, but I think 63 is different. Mine says: D I6 N2 S Z4 Oh yes, sorry. I was quoting the code system which started early in `64. And your mirror was adjacent to the vent window division channel and not forward on the door? Thanks! Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 It's difficult to read because I took the picture with a flash but here's a photo of the data plate on my '63. Build date 01D (fourth week of January) and in the options stampings you can read an S before the U8, (Option code U6 was power windows and U7 was power vents, combined on the data plate they become the U8.) But the S references a remote mirror installed at the factory. I do not have any digital picture of my '63 and I can't find the prints so I cannot, at this time, tell you about the mirror placement, but in my mind, I think it's forward. goes along with the window sticker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivman Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 On 4/8/2019 at 12:59 PM, 1965rivgs said: I have about 20 drivers side door skins I`ve accumulated over the years including the NOS example pictured. I checked them when this point was raised previously in another thread but couldnt find one with a reinforcement for the mirror. Keep in mind most of the door skins are likely to be `65`s but a significant sampling are `63-`64. I`m not saying Buick never made a door skin with the reinforcement, but I`ve never seen one. Would have been a great idea though as the screws for the base have a tendency to want to pull out of the sheetmetal. Tom M I haven't seen near as many door skins as Tom, but of the ones I have seen, there was NO reinforcement in place for the mirror either, just the door handle reinforcement. This might be a picture from the thread you recalled Tom? I believe it was someone asking about measurements for mounting the mirror on a '65 and I have this skin from one with a factory installed remote mirror. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MY64RIVIERA Posted April 11, 2019 Author Share Posted April 11, 2019 Having just replaced my mirror I can confirm that my door skin did not have any additional reinforcement for the mirror. It was simply held on by two self tapping screens and the threaded stud/nut on the mirror itself. I would like to also point out that the replacement tri-shield mirror purchased from CARS did have to be modified slightly to work if anybody chooses to use this in the future. The bracket holes did not quite line up with the original holes on the door so I had to drill a new hole in the bracket itself. I still plan to replace the original mirror somewhere down the line, just needed to get something that was quick and easy to install for the shows this year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, MY64RIVIERA said: Having just replaced my mirror I can confirm that my door skin did not have any additional reinforcement for the mirror. It was simply held on by two self tapping screens and the threaded stud/nut on the mirror itself. I would like to also point out that the replacement tri-shield mirror purchased from CARS did have to be modified slightly to work if anybody chooses to use this in the future. The bracket holes did not quite line up with the original holes on the door so I had to drill a new hole in the bracket itself. I still plan to replace the original mirror somewhere down the line, just needed to get something that was quick and easy to install for the shows this year. Hi Robert, The holes were never intended to line up as the mounting brackets for the remote and manual mirrors are different. Whether the factory installed the mirror (remote only) or the dealer (remote or manual) the mirror kits came with a template that was used as a guide to drill holes. So, it makes perfect sense that the holes would not be the same for both mirror styles. Tom Mooney Edited April 11, 2019 by 1965rivgs (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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